I just got this little "epifany"...

  • #1
    What if.. the CD of every single skill is removed, and you can increase considerably your resource pool through levels/items?

    Imagine casting 20+ hydras in 2 seconds before a bossfight, or spamming CoTA... I mean.. wow.

    In my mind, it sounds incredibly fun.
  • #2
    The Hydras would replace each other :P and would it be that fun? to 1 shot everything like that?
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #3
    Quote from Indimix

    What if.. the CD of every single skill is removed, and you can increase considerably your resource pool through levels/items?

    Imagine casting 20+ hydras in 2 seconds before a bossfight, or spamming CoTA... I mean.. wow.

    In my mind, it sounds incredibly fun.



    *if something like this was possible, then you could have more than 4 people in a game plus followers for all....its a graphics issue. So wishful thinking, but we loose again.
  • #4
    @Kallizk of course the Hydras wont replace each other.. they would stack, just like happened in D2.

    @Nodnarb why more than 4 people?, I've never said anything about other players/followers, just your own skills.

    For example, in D1 you could spamm firewalls as long as you had the enough mana to support it. It was really cool to be able to kill the map with fire. I'd like to, for example, cast 30 meteors (dont know if it has a CD honestly, cant remember) click spamming in the floor when I see enemies approaching.

    The resource pool would come from, for example, int. So, this could be a good "fix" to have items with + int except only main stat and vit.
  • #5
    So you want D3 to be like the DotA -wtf mode? That mode pretty much breaks the game by making a lot of heroes too overpowered. So many changes would be needed to make it work in D3 so Blizzard would have to work only on that and stop developing new features and content. And in the end it probably would only be funny to play for a short period of time.

    If you don't like skills with cooldowns, then choose a build with skills which doesn't have any.
  • #6
    Quote from WNxManiacMan

    So you want D3 to be like the DotA -wtf mode? That mode pretty much breaks the game by making a lot of heroes too overpowered. So many changes would be needed to make it work in D3 so Blizzard would have to work only on that and stop developing new features and content. And in the end it probably would only be funny to play for a short period of time.

    If you don't like skills with cooldowns, then choose a build with skills which doesn't have any.


    I never proposed this as a possible idea for Blizzard to make. I was just trying to remember things that I loved in other games that are just not here. One of those, is the ability to spam/abuse skills as long as you have the enough power (resource in this case) to make it happen. The cooldown idea is great and necessary for MOBA games.. but here?, nope, at least IMO.

    In Diablo 1 and 2, you just needed mana to spam skills. Now, the question is, what changed?, what elements were brought to Diablo 3 in order to need cooldowns?, just because WoW had them and the development team is the same? <- probably not, I want to think.

    From my cynical point of view, I think Blizzard discarded the idea of letting the users control this aspect of the gameplay because that would of gave them power over damage output that is not so intrinsically related to the items they carried, ergo, less profit coming from the AH since is not that important anymore.
  • #7
    epiphany:


    e·piph·a·ny

    ih-pif-uh-nee] insight into the reality oressential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple,homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience.

    a (1) : a usually sudden manifestation or perception of the essential nature or meaning of something (2) : an intuitive grasp of reality through something (as an event) usually simple and striking (3) : an illuminating discovery, realization, or disclosure

    b : a revealing scene or moment
  • #8
    That's why the "f".
  • #9
    Blizzard wanted to remove damage output from skills and place it on the items themselves. The fact that you can hypothetically never find a perfect item means you'll always be wanting to upgrade, which eventually means you will think about spending real money. Everything was done for a reason, I think we all know why.
  • #10
    Sure, I think the same as you Ryude, but maybe it's a bit too cynical. I wanted to see a counter argument like: "no, you cant remove CD because...".
  • #11
    Anything that lets me stack hydras is welcomed in my book. The single worst news about D3 was when they told us we couldn't do that. Hydra Sorc was my favourite build in D2.
  • #12
    Quote from WNxManiacMan

    So you want D3 to be like the DotA -wtf mode? That mode pretty much breaks the game by making a lot of heroes too overpowered.


    Yes, with the OP suggestion, classes could use WotB, Smoke Screen or Archon ignoring their CD/resource cost, that would be absolutely unfair to normal classes !
  • #13

    Anything that lets me stack hydras is welcomed in my book. The single worst news about D3 was when they told us we couldn't do that. Hydra Sorc was my favourite build in D2.


    Me thinks paladin fans got a bit more of the 'ol snub, don't you?
  • #14
    Imagine this scenario where you could change the skill runes you use dynamically without any kind of punishment, and you do something like this:

    - spawn Hydra rune that slows
    - spawn Venom Hydra that do damage in the floor
    - spawn Arcane Hydra that do heavy single target damage.

    You would have 3 hydras doing some nice damage, and they could synergize between them, the same skill, different runes, working together <- awesome.

    Remember when you could use the plague thingy from WD in your pets?.. why in the hell did they remove that.. it was so damn cool.
  • #15
    Quote from Indimix

    Imagine this scenario where you could change the skill runes you use dynamically without any kind of punishment, and you do something like this:

    - spawn Hydra rune that slows
    - spawn Venom Hydra that do damage in the floor
    - spawn Arcane Hydra that do heavy single target damage.

    You would have 3 hydras doing some nice damage, and they could synergize between them, the same skill, different runes, working together <- awesome.

    Remember when you could use the plague thingy from WD in your pets?.. why in the hell did they remove that.. it was so damn cool.


    I agree with this, but what you described here is fundamentally different from "just spamming 18 hydras" too, and I think you know that.

    It'd be kinda cool if a Wizard were able to take multiple different, in this case, Hydra runes and enjoy that. It'd be very interesting, but the problem comes in with - how do you balance something like Archon in that scenario? Stuff like Archon would be *exceptionally* difficult to balance because you'd have to balance it around the fact that everyone would take all 6 runes so the people who took just 1 rune in a "standard" build would just be working with an underpowered piece of shit.

    What you've talked about here would work for any ability that doesn't currently have a CD, definitely... and with interesting results I might add. Having CDs on defensive abilities makes total sense because, frankly, it forces you to use them strategically. Imagine if Teleport had no CD at all, and you didn't need to stack Crit, and support it with Critical Mass to simulate no CD (technically it still has a CD, but it's just greatly reduced)... imagine what that would do to the game. Teleport would be 100% mandatory for every single Wizard because it would allow you to basically skip to elite packs at your whim. We'd be back to the D2 style of group play - Teleport + Maphack + Town Portal runs.

    Most of the CDs fall into two categories: defensive/utility abilities and long-CD offensive abilities. I'm not sure if I really like the entire second category myself, but I certainly understand why they wouldn't want a WD to have no CD on Spirit Walk.
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  • #16
    Quote from shaggy



    Most of the CDs fall into two categories: defensive/utility abilities and long-CD offensive abilities. I'm not sure if I really like the entire second category myself, but I certainly understand why they wouldn't want a WD to have no CD on Spirit Walk.


    I actually like long-CD offensive abilities. Because it's powerful, you have to limit its use either by 1) long CD or 2) high resource cost. In d3, they opt for long CD and low cost (DH's free rain of vengeance, barb's EQ), which I prefer to high resource. High resource cost makes me feel like I have to save my resource for the critical moment all the time and it's not fun. Another thing is, there are many specs that pretty much bypass the resource cost like barb's into the fray or CMwiz, so let's say EQ now has no CD but costs 100 fury, then barb would just spam it on ubers because there's no CD and fury is always there.
  • #17
    I understand that there could be serious imbalances and drawbacks to this no-cd idea but.. in my opinion, it brings more into the table than what it takes from it.
  • #18
    In my opinion, this is a great idea in general. However, the example of CM wizards shows how this can be exploited. You become virtually invulnerable through DS spam (godmode), monsters are stunlocked due to FN spam (bypassing content regardless of difficulty), you can teleport through entire levels (skipping content on the map like in D2 and jump to boss/elite pack). As I mentioned several times, I want CM to be nerfed (give me some sort of cap or so, I don't care), so that other skills become equally interesting and CM is not a "must-have" anymore.

    If you take all CDs away, this would mean that we would see the same thing happening with CM wizards for every class: CD skills are spammed like crazy to exploit the game to some extent. The only way to prevent this is to change (i.e., mostly nerf) the CD spells, because they were designed to be "very powerful" in the first place and the CD was given such that these skills wouldn't make a char/spec OP (hi at my CMWW wiz).

    Hm. You mention to increase the resource pool significantly by levels/items to make this work. I think in the first place, to make this work, the spells need to be expensive (like really expensive, so that even if you have BiS equip and max level you can't exploit the game). THEN this idea might work. But I guess the changes this would need for the skills, resource management, and itemization are way beyond any patch, and probably even more than what we would see in an expansion. But who knows. Worth a thought, indeed.
  • #19
    I prefer high resource costs to cooldowns, that's for sure.

    @shaggy: if you chose all runes from Archon as your 6 skills you wouldn't be OP, you'd be crap. Once you're out of Archon, you have zero skills. Good luck surviving and killing things.
    Unless you vastly outgear the content, obviously. But then, any skill will do the job.
  • #20
    Quote from Indimix

    Imagine this scenario where you could change the skill runes you use dynamically without any kind of punishment, and you do something like this:

    - spawn Hydra rune that slows
    - spawn Venom Hydra that do damage in the floor
    - spawn Arcane Hydra that do heavy single target damage.

    You would have 3 hydras doing some nice damage, and they could synergize between them, the same skill, different runes, working together <- awesome.

    Remember when you could use the plague thingy from WD in your pets?.. why in the hell did they remove that.. it was so damn cool.


    Not sure if this is what you meant, but it reminded me of an idea where you could fill your 6 skill slots with more than one of the same skill, but a different rune. Since we are using the wizard say you have venom hydra on your bar, and it's still limited to one cast at a time, but you could also have arcane hydra on your bar and since the punishment is it's already taking up a skill slot, the payoff is you can have both up at once.

    The same example could be playing a DH and wanting to use two different runes of the same EA. If you're up against heavy damage or RD you could use nether T, and then also be able to use ball lightning for big AOE.

    I don't *think* this could really be exploited, but some obvious balances would have to be made. Something like being able to have multiple hydras up if you're using up multiple slots sounds good, but I'm not sure if allowing a monk's mantra to stack with another one from the same monk would be OP or not. Still thought, I think it would add a very fun dynamic to the game.
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