Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

  • #153


    What demise? They OWN the mmorpg market, they OWN the RTS market, they CREATED the arpg market. Blizzard isn't going anywhere, for a long time.

    Yes Blizzard North created the ARPG genre, but Diablo 3 harmed the franchise and D3 has difficulity to compete with low-budget Path of Exile.


    LOL they harmed the franchise. Guess that will bite them in the ass when they release Diablo 4 in 10 years?

    Just because you and your circle of friends disliked how Diablo 3 turned out after you got overhyped doesn't mean the fan base as a whole is disappointed or that there is a 'downfall'
  • #154



    What demise? They OWN the mmorpg market, they OWN the RTS market, they CREATED the arpg market. Blizzard isn't going anywhere, for a long time.

    Yes Blizzard North created the ARPG genre, but Diablo 3 harmed the franchise and D3 has difficulity to compete with low-budget Path of Exile.


    LOL they harmed the franchise. Guess that will bite them in the ass when they release Diablo 4 in 10 years?

    Just because you and your circle of friends disliked how Diablo 3 turned out after you got overhyped doesn't mean the fan base as a whole is disappointed or that there is a 'downfall'


    The expectations were too lofty, the bar too high. The players imposed an entirely unreasonable standard for D3, expecting this standard to be met fresh out of the box at launch. That standard was for D3 to be a masterpiece of the ARPG genre. Admittedly, I too was guilty of the same.

    Though, as things currently stand, I still feel that any reasonable expectation hasn't been quite yet met.

    Too many boggling questions still linger, many of which surround itemization. 2-hand weaps still 100% entirely not viable for use.

    BiS items are limited to a very small selection.

    I have serious issue with some of the more subtle game-play issues, such as; A lack of a /nopickup option to prevent accidental clicking on junk items littering the ground. No 'ID ALL' feature, making identification a nauseating pain in the asshole.

    Most importantly, social structure. Though, in the recent Q&A with the devs, they acknowledged this issue and even hinted at potential options to facilitate better game creation framework.

    We feel that the social features in Diablo III could be more robust, absolutely. Along with that, we understand that finding other players to brawl with could probably be easier. On a very high level, we've been discussing ways to help players find groups more easily according to their specific play style, be that for questing, Paragon leveling, item farming, key runs, or brawling, etc. One of the ideas we've explored—and this is by no means set in stone, but I did want to bring it up since it is something we’re actively considering it—is the possibility of allowing players to identify what kind of experience they’re looking for when entering Public Games by using "tags." So, in addition to selecting your MP and Quest, you could also hypothetically select your "Game Type," and "Brawling" could certainly be one of the types we make available. It's a pretty big change from both a UI and mechanical standpoint, so we don't have an ETA for when social improvements of that level might be added.

    So, to answer your question: while we don’t have any additions planned for 1.0.7 (we were paying pretty close attention to how people were finding one another on the PTR and think players were doing just fine), we do want to make it easier for players to find another and will continue monitoring your feedback in the meantime.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #155
    Im not a troll, but rly i have to agree with theseanis on the point of the 'turd' he made...

    Blizzard has made some of the best games in the industry, the games they used to make were trend setters and defined or even 'made' a new kind of genre (pioneers)... diablo 1 was the first successful arpg to my knowledge (d2 took the game a step forward as well)... starcraft was probably the 1st rts with proper balance to be an e-sport (sc2 expanded on the previous ideas) ... wow was the first successful mmorpg...

    In my eyes D3 could have been so much more not because i anticipated so, but because ALL games' franchises usually stand on the 'shoulders'/rules/basics of their predecessors... this game seems to be remade removing what was 'great' from its predecessors while the rest of the game feels as if it is an unfinished state, this is definitely a step backward ( i can argument all day on this but it is besides the point).

    I like & play the game but what worries me most is: Blizzard's D3 release was for the worst, is this the trend now? it felt like a money-grabbing move, is this also a trend of the things to come from blizzard, in these last few years as a publicly listed company? The game on launch was misrepresented, features that were advertised didnt exist? the company seems to seem to be detached, i feel the game is a step backwards and yet blizzard advertises it as a design & game success, Jay Wilson is giving advice on game design?

    Best metaphor i can think of is: Blizzard & Diablo 3 feel like the Worlds Hi-tech Greatest Military Facility producing a pea-shooter.
  • #156
    About them social features, check out the Heart of the Swarm video here:

    http://youtu.be/JwS5t2SLsDo

    I have a feeling we might see some of these come to Diablo, now that they're completed for SC2. :)
  • #157
    well the way i see it, diablo 3 made improvements over all, but got worse in some areas, or there is mixed feelings about some changes.

    1. the theme feels different ..... what i mean is, take a look at diablo 1 butcher introduction, and compare that to diablo 3 butcher .... one feels like a mature adult theme, while the other feels like disney land in comparison ....

    the bright colors was also one of the other aspects of the game that made it feel different compared to d1 and d2. this is the part where most fans are not sure whether it was a good change or not. but some hardcore diablo fans are resorting to darkd2 shader to restore a more diablo 1/2 ish look.

    if you were not sure what to think about the colors, the pony level was a slap to the face. In d2 we had a cow level, which we found amusing and also profitable. but enter d3 pony level and you can't help but feel this is blizzard just rubbing it in our faces about the bright colors they added to d3 to the point of annoyance :/ this totally kills the diablo dark morbid theme for good. felt like jay wilson had his kids design the level judging by the kiddy drawings in that pony level x_x;

    other than graphics, the character commentaries like the mercs seem a bit jolly and silly at times. in diablo 1 and 2 it never felt like that. everything was more to do with serious morbid conversations tending to related to something about the story. whereas diablo 3 wanted to add less morbidity to the chars, and show that even such dark times, they can still act silly, and have fun still. this is what i meant by a contrast to earlier diablos ....

    i feel that d1/d2/d2 expa music is way better than d3 ..... but that is just my own opinion. Not sure what others think about it, but i felt the music got worse, and detracts from the previous theme/mood which was much suited for the diablo series. now i turn off d3 music, and play d1/d2 music with fubar as a solution ;x


    2. the game engine physics are awful. yes blizzard cited they aren't hell bent on making diablo 3 a high end game graphically/physics like Crysis, Half Life, Far Cry etc.... they even justified that characters need not be too detailed because you have a fix zoom view to begin with (which i can accept). however when players notice skeletons fly up in the sky at an odd angle in slow moo moon physics, it kinda looks crappy, especially when you compare it to the likes of Lineage 3 that feels much more polished when you look at how monsters die when you slam them with your weapons and spells ....

    3. attitude.... blizzard tends to justify some of the stuff they do without accepting they did anything wrong in the slightest, and it tends to translate as a mediocre attitude toward the game design. E.g. about them being satisfied with the game engine as is for example. time and time again we are reminded content isn't to be like world of warcraft where we can expect those kinds of updates. Although i can accept that, but i hope they won't make the expansion lame like d2 where you only have 2 new classes and only 1 new act .... i feel the expansion should have 4 acts at the very least .....

    4. the skill system has improved in the sense it offers much flexibility for players to experiment. and yet at the same time some of us miss a skill tree.

    5. magic find was a problem because it felt like you ended up having to keep 2 sets same like in d2, however with the introduction of paragorn, this has become less of an issue, as once you get paragorn lv 100, you needn't worry at all about your gear mf.

    6. shields theory crafting feels lacking when compared to diablo 2, where different shields tended to favor certain characteristics like, more block, more dps, more armor, but now everything is simplified down to just get storm shield with the right stats and you set. and even then there isn't much viable shield builds that can compete with the now popular dps builds barbarians use :x so now barbs either use dual wield 1 handers, or a 2hd skorn.

    7. once you've won the game at inferno and got most of the achievements, got all classes lv 60, and farmed decent enough items, what left is there ? Sure dueling, or should i say brawling is coming out today, but is that enough ? I want to have a bigger player base i can interact with similar to that of WOW, where you can battle in a bigger map with more players. Or should i say more like Guild Wars 2 ? we need some activity we can play as a group vs another group, and not merely a small arena for dueling only.

    8. when the game first came out, we found out legendaries were 99% of the time useless crap. It was simply amazing how blizzard was so blind as to the crappiness of the legendaries. Players wanted to use legendaries as usable items as they did in d2. But instead we got a shiny graphically nice item, which was inferior to yellow rares. So it was a godsend that the newer patch fixed the bad legendaries some what. People could now have a chance to roll legendaries that made sense to use. Some legendaries tend to rely more on a lucky roll of affixes you need, whereas some had base stats that tended to make any roll still satisfactory enough to wear regardless e.g. Immortal King's Eternal reign chest piece.

    However there is a third type of legendary that still needs to be fixed, such as Frost burn gauntlets among other things. These are legendaries people will never ever use because their affixes make no sense when compared to other popular stat affixes. Blizzard needs to re-do these high Item level legendaries to be something useful or it may as well just be a brimstone ....

    9. internet connectivity. personally i never complained about it, but when i keep constantly getting bug errors kicking me from games, and losing my 5 nephalem stacks, this is something i find intolerable. no i did not torrent and exhaust my internet bandwidth and lost connection. The game just tends to bug out on me and disconnect. This is getting way way too annoying for the game to be playable. Needs to be fixed soon hopefully in this new patch.

    10. 4 players max. yes ok campaign cooperative, i can see why 4 would be suited. but they need to make a different game mode (maybe something like team raids or something), that will allow much more players to participate.


    :/ over all i do think diablo 3 is an improvement, but with the stuff i highlighted, they can still improve on many things. And no these changes i am asking for isn't the same as wow updates, so plz blizzard, don't try and make an excuse that your product is fine as is, it isn't .... don't disappoint.


    so do i see blizzard's diablo series dying ? not quite, but i can see how this is leaving room for the competition like Lineage 3 from beating blizzard diablo games eventually if blizzard doesn't improve and change it's attitude.

    Even blizzard's Wow mmorpg is in danger when the trend now seems to be free to play such as guild wars 2. And now more recently Tera Online is becoming free to play (limited offer i believe ?). blizz needs to change it's business model to be competitive :x
  • #158

    Even blizzard's Wow mmorpg is in danger when the trend now seems to be free to play such as guild wars 2. And now more recently Tera Online is becoming free to play (limited offer i believe ?). blizz needs to change it's business model to be competitive :x


    WoW is the *reason* other MMOs are F2P. In another decade things will look different, but at 9 Million subs they'd be stupid to change anything right now.

    I am looking forward to Lineage 3 as another high-budget take on the online ARPG, and their video showed some nice innovations too . But it could be a good while before you get to (legally/easily) play the game outside of Korea, Blizzard will likely have both expansions out well before then.
  • #159

    Is not that simple Shaggy, sometimes the content of the message is more important than how is delivered to us. So I can politely say to you how the AH made us a favor to improve the overall game experience (which is complete bullshit) or I can tell you OMG DIS GAME IS BROKEN FUCK AH OMG1!!!1!!! <- which is somewhat right.


    No, it's an opinion. That's what you just don't get. The way you express it the 2nd time is just begging for a flamefest and that's why it gets "censored" by the mods. We're here to have DISCUSSION which implies civility. We are not here to throw shitfits, rage, and whine about everything. You can't have civil discussion with people who refuse to separate opinion from fact. Furthermore, it's still important to establish cause-effect relationships with your opinions - what you feel is far less important when it comes to problem-solving than why you feel that way, which is why "RMAH IS RUNINING THE GAME" doesn't get anyone anywhere - there's no room to even attempt to talk through a solution there, it's just pointless ranting.


    However, our cultural and social environments tell us that is not important what the message actually contains, but who is saying it and how is being said. Maybe in a few decades, this situation changes, and people starts paying attention at what is actually being said instead of how or by whom.

    If you read and pay attention at how Blizzard answer to the users, it says nothing, you finish to read 25 lines and then you end up with a big: "so....". That is politics.


    How Blizzard communicates with us via the official forums has absolutely nothing to do with how we are expected to behave here. Again, you're completely missing the point. The mods here don't have to take into account whether or not you feel that Blizzard is being "political" or not when it comes to what level of decorum they expect from us. It doesn't matter if you feel that Blizzard has wronged you. These forums are NOT for you to throw a hissy fit, start fights with other players, etc.

    The mods have been VERY clear about that. There is no point in arguing it. Either abide or hit the road. If your only goal is to trash-talk D3 I'm sure there are some other communities you could join which would welcome that with open arms. This, however, is not one of those communities.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #160
    MoogleStiltzkin... that's a well-written post. I agree with some (most?) of your points, at least to some extent. But I completely disagree with points 2, 3 and 8.

    2) Game engine: I really don't care about the game engine. The graphics are good enough, and that's it. No Blizzard game ever set a benchmark in graphics or physics on release, yet every single one of them was a hit. If I look back at all my favorite games I played in the past 20 years, none of them had high-end graphics. I want a proper atmosphere. Music, story, and some other things that are more subtle but difficult to point at are way more important than graphics. Lineage is a good example; LA1+LA2 graphics were always among the best in their genre, but player numbers were ridiculously low.

    3) Attitude: you apparently don't read blue posts. Blizzard has admitted many of their mistakes with regard to D3. Just think about Morhaine's apology. And all the blue posts. Just read the recent "ask the devs". Seriously, this is just wrong. Blizzard's attitude is the opposite of that of almost all other tech companies (hi @ the holy Steve Jobs telling customers "you're doing it wrong" even though they completely fucked up their phone design).

    7) What you write in point 7 indicates that you have no idea what Diablo is about (killing monsters and the endless item hunt). What you describe is a MMO. Diablo isn't an MMO and won't ever become one.
  • #161

    MoogleStiltzkin... that's a well-written post. I agree with some (most?) of your points, at least to some extent. But I completely disagree with points 2, 3 and 8.

    2) Game engine: I really don't care about the game engine. The graphics are good enough, and that's it. No Blizzard game ever set a benchmark in graphics or physics on release, yet every single one of them was a hit. If I look back at all my favorite games I played in the past 20 years, none of them had high-end graphics. I want a proper atmosphere. Music, story, and some other things that are more subtle but difficult to point at are way more important than graphics. Lineage is a good example; LA1+LA2 graphics were always among the best in their genre, but player numbers were ridiculously low.

    3) Attitude: you apparently don't read blue posts. Blizzard has admitted many of their mistakes with regard to D3. Just think about Morhaine's apology. And all the blue posts. Just read the recent "ask the devs". Seriously, this is just wrong. Blizzard's attitude is the opposite of that of almost all other tech companies (hi @ the holy Steve Jobs telling customers "you're doing it wrong" even though they completely fucked up their phone design).

    7) What you write in point 7 indicates that you have no idea what Diablo is about (killing monsters and the endless item hunt). What you describe is a MMO. Diablo isn't an MMO and won't ever become one.


    hi thx for your reply.


    2) yes i do agree fun comes first. but for me individually, i also want better graphics and physics too. I'm using a ivy bridge 2012 pc rig, and want to get the most out of it :} although i can also understand your viewpoint and priorities. To each his own.

    3) a good example would be the time a while back before launch, when they kept raising hopes, only to then blame fans for over hyping themselves to only get disappointed when the game wasn't out when it was expected too. Despite blizzard themselves having also made comments to encourage this higher expectation. However this is old news. I haven't seen the recent stuff, so i'm not sure whether they've turned a new leaf.

    7) i probably didn't clarify enough. yes i know the difference between diablo arpg vs full blown wow mmorpg ;_; after all i did get diablo 1 way before wow ever came about. However all i'm asking for is a raid area pvp similar to that of guild wars 2, where more than 4 and 8 can play ...... and what is wrong thinking outside the box and IMPROVE diablo adding a new way of playing it in a different mode outside that of campaign once you've done completing inferno ..... :/ not asking for a big world like wow to explore :x so don't mistake it for that.
  • #162
    PoE is only interesting because it is new and people need something to compare D3 against.

    When Kripparian killed Diablo Inferno World First 7 Months ago...he was already playing PoE in closed Beta.
    Closed Beta had well over 50,000 People and ~200 of em pledged $1000 and they got their very own Unique in Game.
    The closed Beta forged the Game you can play for free today.

    So why do People still claim its "new" ?

    PoE development started before they even announced Diablo3 to the World.
    (Of course at that time Diablo3 was already in the works as well)

    The Timeframe for both Games is pretty identical actually.

    The only difference is...

    Blizzard broke it over the Knee, and released without a bigger Beta...the End Result you can "enjoy" today ;)
    and PoE is beta testing to the max, but BOTH games can be played without Limitations.
  • #163
    This thread is evidence that many people take games too seriously. Any given game is not best approached as some new found way of life. Not only is that an utterly unhealthy approach to what is supposed to be entertainment during our off-time, but it brings cause for many to over-analyze and dissect any specific game....... Which invokes an unreasonable cynicism.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #164
    I have been a big fan of Blizzard since The Lost Vikings and played every game Blizzard have released. But Diablo III has been a great disappointment. Still got a little hope for the game since Jay Wilson's forced leave and that's the reason I am not selling all my gear and quitting the game.

    I am pretty sure that in future Diablo III is going to be a thought in Marketting/Economy Classes in terms of "How to ruin a franchise" No sarcasm here I really mean it.

    Ps: I am playing POE atm and it seems to be far more superior than Diablo.
  • #165
    This thread is evidence that many people take games too seriously.

    For ~30 years and counting :)
  • #166

    Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

    It cannot be denied that Diablo 3 got mixed reviews, and substantial negative feedback post-release. See for example very low 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating (7864 Ratings), and average user rating of 2.2 / 5 on Amazon (3,116 customer reviews).
    Comparatively Blizzard's Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty got 8.1 / 10 (2150 User Ratings). That means SC2 has (much) better lead designers who understand the franchise and fanbase.

    Diablo 3 sold record amounts, yet many fans are seriously disappointed. Now there's new Action RPGs such as Path of Exile which many D3 fans prefer to play instead of D3.

    Example: how can the low-budget Path of Exile be able to directly compete against Diablo 3? Diablo 3 is supposed to be the Triple A, blockbuster and gold-standard of the Action RPG genre! So something is amiss.

    If budget isn't the cause, then it must be the faulty game design of the lead developers (repetitive gameplay, narrow restrictive level-design, no open world to explore, semi-cartoony washed out graphics, mediocre storyline etc).

    Due to so much disappointment among fans it's questionable whether Diablo 4 and 5 would sell as well if Blizzard continues down the current game-design path.

    I'm a big fan of the Diablo Franchise so I'm concerned about the disappointing state of Diablo 3.

    Blizzard appears to be unaware of Diablo 3's downfall and severly overestimates itself. So they won't really listen to fans nor take essential measures to improve Diablo 3 and redeem the Diablo franchise.

    Blizzard can pretend that Diablo 3 is the best Action RPG to date, but many fans think otherwise and will be reluctant to buy another Diablo game.

    The Demise of Blizzard

    The downfall of Diablo 3 could potentially be the turning point where Blizzard Entertainment itself enters its own demise, unless they change course.

    I hope Blizzard can restore the Diablo Franchise to its former glory, but time will tell.


    Oh good god! Really? I mean REALLY?

    *facepalm*

    It amazes me just how many soap box preachers this game has brought out, and that the number of them decide to write a pathetic wall of text to express the downfall of a company that is alive and well. Please take the soapbox and toss it in the trash because reason has left your brain sir...
    "There is no cow level!"
  • #167

    This thread is evidence that many people take games too seriously.

    For ~30 years and counting :)


    Indeed. I remember back in the day, me and a friend were playing Ghosts and Goblins on the 'ol nintendo. A typical summer night, 1AM, all-nighter, Doritos and Coca~Cola aplenty. Something happened in the game. My friends little hero guy died, shit got real. He leapt from the chair and utterly fucking destroyed the TV with a kick that would make Chuck Norris proud.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #168
    Indeed. I remember back in the day, me and a friend were playing Ghosts and Goblins on the 'ol nintendo. A typical summer night, 1AM, all-nighter, Doritos and Coca~Cola aplenty. Something happened in the game. My friends little hero guy died, shit got real. He leapt from the chair and utterly fucking destroyed the TV with a kick that would make Chuck Norris proud.

    I love this story because my friend and I had the same experience with that game many times, though without kicking the screen in, but I believe it, that game was ROUGH. The best part was you could get to the end of the game and still not be able to win because you missed out on some little thing necessary to beat the boss, can't recall what it is is now. What a devious game that was.
  • #169

    Indeed. I remember back in the day, me and a friend were playing Ghosts and Goblins on the 'ol nintendo. A typical summer night, 1AM, all-nighter, Doritos and Coca~Cola aplenty. Something happened in the game. My friends little hero guy died, shit got real. He leapt from the chair and utterly fucking destroyed the TV with a kick that would make Chuck Norris proud.

    I love this story because my friend and I had the same experience with that game many times, though without kicking the screen in, but I believe it, that game was ROUGH. The best part was you could get to the end of the game and still not be able to win because you missed out on some little thing necessary to beat the boss, can't recall what it is is now. What a devious game that was.


    HA!!!

    That game was frickin evil. The slightest mistake, you're done.

    My friend had some rage issues. Him + Mike Tyson's Punch Out....bad news for everyone involved.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #170

    Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

    It cannot be denied that Diablo 3 got mixed reviews, and substantial negative feedback post-release. See for example very low 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating (7864 Ratings), and average user rating of 2.2 / 5 on Amazon (3,116 customer reviews).
    Comparatively Blizzard's Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty got 8.1 / 10 (2150 User Ratings). That means SC2 has (much) better lead designers who understand the franchise and fanbase.



    Yes, I'm sure the unstable battle.net service the first few weeks had nothing to do with the negative rating at release, it has to be because Diablo 3 have bad lead designers.... :facepalmsmile:
  • #171


    Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

    It cannot be denied that Diablo 3 got mixed reviews, and substantial negative feedback post-release. See for example very low 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating (7864 Ratings), and average user rating of 2.2 / 5 on Amazon (3,116 customer reviews).
    Comparatively Blizzard's Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty got 8.1 / 10 (2150 User Ratings). That means SC2 has (much) better lead designers who understand the franchise and fanbase.



    Yes, I'm sure the negative rating at release had nothing to do with the unstable battle.net service the first week.....


    Your common sense and facts have no place here.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #172

    This thread is evidence that many people take games too seriously. Any given game is not best approached as some new found way of life. Not only is that an utterly unhealthy approach to what is supposed to be entertainment during our off-time, but it brings cause for many to over-analyze and dissect any specific game....... Which invokes an unreasonable cynicism.


    I disagree somewhat. People take their time seriously. When an expectation for how they spend their free time is not met, they get angry.
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