Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

  • #293
    Quote from overneathe
    You know bots can't survive without players, right? What exactly do you think the ratio is? One bot per 2 players? 10 players? 100?


    Speculations. Why dont you ask Blizzard...
    and while you at it, ask when they plan to become more transparent.
    To quote Tim Schafer.... I'd like to see how the sausage is made.

    Quote from Indimix
    I'm actually ok that this game or any other has flaws, what worries me most, is the extremely long time they take to fix those flaws, even the little ones that could take 1 day of coding and 1 day of testing, mostly quality of life stuff, like gems ID for example.


    Yepp exactly this.
    Simple stuff like the Item ID'ing...
    everybody is asking for a NPC in town who ID's all Items kinda like the old Cain in D2.
    That would require a few People programming a NPC like that, with a function like that.

    And what do they actually do?
    They reduce the Time it takes to ID a piece from 4 Seconds (was it 4?) to 1,5 Seconds.
    They change 2 Numbers in the Code, thats it.

    Same goes on with the Class Fixes, like the Wizard for example. They promised a complete overhaul.
    But up to date they simply change numbers instead of fixing stuff. Adding here a little, reducing there a little.
    They call it balance...i call it Lazy.
  • #294
    What do you even mean speculations? Are you saying all players run bots for loot? Is that what you're proposing? :D
  • #295
    It's an endless circle of bots selling to other bots, they don't actually farm anymore...
  • #296
    Quote from overneathe

    What do you even mean speculations? Are you saying all players run bots for loot? Is that what you're proposing? :D


    Nobody knows how many Bots are out there...just Blizzard.
    So what you orginally asked for is just speculations, because they dont share those numbers...
    like they dont share anything else.

    We dont know the Numbers...Blizzard does.
  • #297
    Even so, are you saying the majority could be bots?
  • #298
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Indimix

    Donnalee, I wish I could be more like you, so I could enjoy games like I did in my old times. Thing is, when you played several games in the past (I'm almost 31), your standard become quite high. Maybe this new generation of gamers only look for shiny things, and 1 week later move on. That wasn't the case of how I played games in the past.

    I still remember being stuck for weeks in a particular part of the game The Dig, and still enjoying every single attempt to solve a puzzle. Right now seems like gamers pay 60 bucks, play a game for a week or two, and repeat. It's kind of sad to be honest.


    For me it's completely the same. Like, all what you wrote. The only difference is that I don't think the game is to blame, it's just me.

    Recently (yesterday or so) I read somewhere else on these forums that "WarCraft 1 was so freaking hard, all of today's games are easy as pie". I had to laugh when I read this. I remember well how I managed to finish WarCraft 1 about 20 years ago, and it felt like a major achievement. For the sake of super nostalgia I installed it a couple of years ago and did another play through. WarCraft 1 and difficult? This game is ridiculously easy. Finished both campaigns in a few hours without any restart or problems or so. So what's the difference? Did the game became weaker over time? No. The difference is that I have 20 years of experience playing computer games. So many things that I mentioned in my wizard guide, for example, aren't even things that I learned in D3, but from all the other ARPGs, MMOs, RPGs that I played. Still, much of this information is news to people; and so is the implementation of these mechanics in the game.

    If you install and play Diablo 1 and 2 again, and try to compare them objectively to D3 (well, I don't think the average human mind is capable of doing that, but let's give it a try) - I don't think that Diablo 3 is weaker, worse, less polished then Diablo 1 or 2. This is not me "guessing", but I actually did this last summer. I'm a sucker for nostalgia and have a lot of old games installed, even some 20+ year old DOS games running in emulators. And this is why I defend Diablo 3 so often on these forums: many of the complaints are from people who expect too much, who don't evaluate the game in its current state, but compare it to the feelings they had when playing Diablo 1 17 years ago. That's just not fair. And even though I can see some of the changes that you want as changes that I'd like to see, too, I tell myself that this is 2013. Furthermore, you can't design a game with the main focus on 30+ years old players like us with 20+ years of gaming experience; most of my friends I shared the D1+D2 gaming experience with don't even have a gaming PC anymore.

    It's a complicated matter, and please trust me that whenever you bring up criticism on these forums there's a part inside of me that says "yes, he's right". But then I think "what would this change mean in the long term development of the game, why hasn't Blizzard implemented it this way, and what would other players with a different playing style think about this"? And oftentimes I realize that there's a good reason for Blizzard to do things the way they do.


    Great post. I also think the huge gap in time between D2 and D3's release also pushed expectations past a reasonable level as well. Now so many people feel somehow victimized by a game that is actually really really good.
  • #299
    To be fair his initial point was that the game is not just a bunch of bots because there have to be buyers and that a circle of bots selling to other bots makes absolutely no sense.

    It doesn't take any numbers from Blizzard to confirm that. It's pretty basic logic that applies to any game with tradeable/sellable currency.

    Besides, if Blizzard is so tight-lipped about these numbers then the bigger point to be made is what basis does anyone have to say that 2 million copies of the game were sold to botters? How come it's OK to speculate when it is negative to Blizzard but it's not OK to call people on the carpet for it? How come people talking shit are never held to the same standards?

    Quote from Maffia

    It's an endless circle of bots selling to other bots, they don't actually farm anymore...


    I feel that your sarcasm may have been missed. It's preposterously dumb to believe that any significant portion of the population is bots. There has to be someone for them to sell to otherwise they don't make money and the bots disappear.

    When most of the bots disappear that's when you know either Blizzard clamped down really hard, or the game is done. Lots of bots is actually the sign of a game where there are lots of people purchasing their wares. So if there are lots of bots there have to be lots of players (given that the number of people making RMAH-style purchases is only a smaller segment of the whole population anyway) otherwise the bots wouldn't exist. These botters are not charitable organizations, they're in it to make money.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #300
    Quote from shaggy

    It doesn't take any numbers from Blizzard to confirm that. It's pretty basic logic that applies to any game with tradeable/sellable currency.


    Now now, let's hear what Xeno has to say.
  • #301
    Quote from overneathe

    Even so, are you saying the majority could be bots?


    If you had asked "ARE there bots"...the answer would be yes.
    If the majority is actually using them... i do not know.

    Why should I give you a concrete answer, if it's just speculation?
    How do you plan to acually prove it (right or wrong)?
    With more speculations ?

    This is silly.
  • #302
    I'm sorry, wasn't it you earlier that speculated what the current player base is because a few thousand had voted on the game on metacritic and because twitch (read: kripp) had more PoE viewers than Diablo 3? Did you think those are normal numbers to "speculate" about?

    I was simply under the impression you liked speculating is all.
  • #303
    I was talking about Trends...viewed from a personal perspective.
    Thats all we can do, you know?
    Building a personal perspective on the matter, because there simply isnt hard evidence.
    Where did i claim that anything i've said is actually 100% correct ?

    You want hard facts and real evidence?
    Why dont you use your relationship with blizzard and actually get them.
    There must be some connections between you guys and blizzard, right ?

    How many people left the game, and still play the game regulary...
    How many people got banned due exploits and bots...
    How many people play at peakhours right now...

    Now that would be something.
  • #304
    Quote from donnalee
    There are still millions who enjoyed it, and thousands are still enjoying it.


    I know that, to you, this is supposed to compliment the game. But to me it shows how much of a 'failure' (relatively speaking, of course) this game really was. Hell, thousands of people were still enjoying D2 shortly before D3 came out. And that was a 10 year old game! It really shows how much game-time Diablo fans were willing to put into this new instalment.
    D3 is not even one year old, yet of the millions that bought it, only thousands are still enjoying it?
  • #305
    Quote from maka

    Quote from donnalee
    There are still millions who enjoyed it, and thousands are still enjoying it.


    I know that, to you, this is supposed to compliment the game. But to me it shows how much of a 'failure' (relatively speaking, of course) this game really was. Hell, thousands of people were still enjoying D2 shortly before D3 came out. And that was a 10 year old game! It really shows how much game-time Diablo fans were willing to put into this new instalment.
    D3 is not even one year old, yet of the millions that bought it, only thousands are still enjoying it?


    Take a look at twitch viewers. PoE is back down after a couple of weeks. Diablo 3 is still at 4k viewers after 8 months. People still talk a lot about D3.

    Don't start with this whole D2 still kicks it shit. I started playing it a week ago and guess what... I'm fed up with it already. Are YOU still playing D2? As it stands people have the choce of playing D3 or playing D2 and guess what more people chose to play? And don't say it's just because they are "saturated" on D2 as this "saturation" also applies to D3, since they are so similar.

    D2 WAS great. Then it WAS good. But, right now it IS BAD. It's as simple as that.
  • #306
    Well, let's be honest, there are a lot more than "thousands" currently enjoying it.

    The other night I saw almost 1000 people in public games just for the Kill Ghom Inferno quest. There were another few thousand in the rest of Act 3 Inferno public games. I didn't bother to add it up across all quests and all difficulties but there were probably at least 25,000 people in public games in D3 as there were close to 7500 just in Act 3 Inferno public games.

    I have NEVER played a public game (I still don't have the achievement for it) and honestly none of the people I know who play D3 ever played public games. There's no reason to think there aren't 500k+ currently playing D3 and that's probably a lowball estimate. "Thousands" is a horrendously lowball estimate and provably wrong. Why anyone would say that is beyond me.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #307
    Quote from Melt

    Quote from maka

    Quote from donnalee
    There are still millions who enjoyed it, and thousands are still enjoying it.


    I know that, to you, this is supposed to compliment the game. But to me it shows how much of a 'failure' (relatively speaking, of course) this game really was. Hell, thousands of people were still enjoying D2 shortly before D3 came out. And that was a 10 year old game! It really shows how much game-time Diablo fans were willing to put into this new instalment.
    D3 is not even one year old, yet of the millions that bought it, only thousands are still enjoying it?


    Take a look at twitch viewers. PoE is back down after a couple of weeks. Diablo 3 is still at 4k viewers after 8 months. People still talk a lot about D3.

    Don't start with this whole D2 still kicks it shit. I started playing it a week ago and guess what... I'm fed up with it already. Are YOU still playing D2? As it stands people have the choce of playing D3 or playing D2 and guess what more people chose to play? And don't say it's just because they are "saturated" on D2 as this "saturation" also applies to D3, since they are so similar.

    D2 WAS great. Then it WAS good. But, right now it IS BAD. It's as simple as that.


    #1 - twitch means absolutely nothing to me;
    #2 - I'm playing Eastern Sun with a friend that hasn't played D2, ever. Honestly? I'm having a fucking blast.
  • #308
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Melt

    Quote from maka

    Quote from donnalee
    There are still millions who enjoyed it, and thousands are still enjoying it.


    I know that, to you, this is supposed to compliment the game. But to me it shows how much of a 'failure' (relatively speaking, of course) this game really was. Hell, thousands of people were still enjoying D2 shortly before D3 came out. And that was a 10 year old game! It really shows how much game-time Diablo fans were willing to put into this new instalment.
    D3 is not even one year old, yet of the millions that bought it, only thousands are still enjoying it?


    Take a look at twitch viewers. PoE is back down after a couple of weeks. Diablo 3 is still at 4k viewers after 8 months. People still talk a lot about D3.

    Don't start with this whole D2 still kicks it shit. I started playing it a week ago and guess what... I'm fed up with it already. Are YOU still playing D2? As it stands people have the choce of playing D3 or playing D2 and guess what more people chose to play? And don't say it's just because they are "saturated" on D2 as this "saturation" also applies to D3, since they are so similar.

    D2 WAS great. Then it WAS good. But, right now it IS BAD. It's as simple as that.


    #1 - twitch means absolutely nothing to me;
    #2 - I'm playing Eastern Sun with a friend that hasn't played D2, ever. Honestly? I'm having a fucking blast.


    More people are having more fun with D3 than with D2.

    I introduced a few people to D2 and a few to D3. Guess which one was more fun...
  • #309
    Quote from Melt

    More people are having more fun with D3 than with D2.

    I introduced a few people to D2 and a few to D3. Guess which one was more fun...


    I don't have to guess. You asked a question ("Do YOU still play D2?"), I answered.
    Sorry you didn't like the answer.
  • #310
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Melt

    More people are having more fun with D3 than with D2.

    I introduced a few people to D2 and a few to D3. Guess which one was more fun...


    I don't have to guess. You asked a question ("Do YOU still play D2?"), I answered.
    Sorry you didn't like the answer.


    Don't worry i liked your answer as you just confirmed that even you are not playing D2 LoD anymore.
  • #311
    Careful there juggling with numbers, and vague guesses...some people could take those for granted.
    And after that you are labled the "ultimate Troll" ;)
  • #312
    D3s graphics and combat system are way way superior to PoE

    I also think D3 is great art and very nice looking game unfortunately the gameplay is way too simplefied....

    Blizzard needs to do somethink to improve the gameplay atleast so they can sell expasion copies

    I think PoE is healthy competition
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