Diablo 3's shortcomings - Itemized with details

  • #1
    I made this post on the official BNET forums, if you could check it and bump it if you agree with it that'd be cool, might help it get noticed.

    http://us.battle.net...opic/7811482232


    I wrote up much of this list quickly back last summer in a post on a different Diablo 3 forum, however it's all still pretty relevant. I have re-organized it and tried to update it as best I can. Many of the points are inter-related to each other. The items listed are not really in any sort of meaningful order and are just sort of a stream of thought.

    The following is a list of what I feel are Diablo 3's major shortcomings and why I am personally very disappointed with the game. The following are just my own personal opinions, but are clearly shared by many others. I finally took the time to think about them, point by point and write out what I didn't like. They are not ordered in any particular way, other than just how they popped into my mind.

    1. The items are boring and uninteresting

    Diablo games have always primarily been about the item hunt, there need to be super interesting items to chase that give you upgrades, fantastic new abilities, maybe even ones that will support a specfic powerful or whacky build. As long as the item system is subpar, the game will be subpar. Diablo 3's item system is about as boring and generic as you can get. DPS, Main Stat, Vit, All Resits, Crit GOOGOGO. Every class, every item slot. There are never interesting decisions or choices to be made. You are simply increasing the numbers. Nobody gets excited about upgrading their boots +1 dex but that's the type of upgrades you are forced to seek out in this game because there is nothing else to chase.

    2. No character investment

    Auto-stat point allocation, all skills and runes available at all times, no permanent decisions, your character is just boring and you don't feel like you had any hand in making it, in fact you didn't make it, it made itself. You have no connection to or investment in your character at all. You are walking gear. In Diablo 2 you also had incentive to make characters over and over again, You had a frenzy barb, a WW lance barb, a WW sword bab, they all played differently and needed different gear, same for your ice sorc, your fire sorc, etc. This incentive doesn't exist in Diablo 3 which effectively renders the game 1-59 completely useless, including all low level legendaries and such.

    3. No social system

    The lack of a decent lobby and the ability to create named game instance to attract people with similiar and desired interests (duels, trades, questing, etc.). Just trying to give away items is painful, spam chat, hope to find someone who wants it, invite them to a party, create game, etc. Having a list of named games that people could pop in and out of to do whatever was in the title was awesome and is sorely missed. It allowed people to group with those who shared similar interests, rather than just 3 randoms. The 4 player cap is also horrible. 8 players in a game would be crazy and also FUN. If we can't have 8 at least give us 5 so we can have one of each class. Why don't you let people CHOSE how they want to play? Why was 8 players deemed "not the way it was supposed to be played" and removed? Let people play how they want, be it solo or in a huge group.

    4. All game aspects have been simplified/streamlined/removed

    Remember when weapons had range? Like using a lance was slow but had long range and using a mace was faster but had short range, remember that? Remember when axes did extra damage to demons and maces did extra damage to undead? Remember when each elemental damages actually did damage differently? Remember when there were 6 different gems types and they did drastically different things depending on where they were socketed, making all 6 types interesting and viable. Remember when there were more than 4-5 types of shrines? WTF happened to all that? They were all small, simple things that gave the game character and at least a little depth, why were they all ripped out? Worried it might confuse people? Diablo 3 has been streamlined, simplified, and flat out dumb-downed to near death.

    5. The story is terrible and is shoved down your throat.

    Diablo games have never primarily been about the story, the story has always been kind of a back drop and left a lot to your imagination. However Diablo 3's story is not only ridiculous and childish and laughably stupid, but is CONSTANTLY IN YOUR FACE ALL THE TIME. You can't get away from it, you are always questing, no matter what, replaying the same crap you've done a million times over and over again. In D2 once you got done with the story you were done with it if you chose to be. You could kill all the bosses or uniques, go where you want, etc.

    6. The world is not random or open enough

    The world feels small and disjointed, the areas are all connected the same way geographically every time. There are no large open areas that are random and connected to random other areas. The ability to warp between acts is gone. The entire world feels railroaded. This is very related to point 5. It also makes the game feel much shorter and smaller than D2 when it actually isn't. For the love of God give us the ability to play the game in "open" mode, allowing us to use all waypoints and go anywhere without questing. Make the world areas significantly larger and more random. Give us the ability to explore again.

    7. The AH makes the item hunt feel pointless and boring

    No matter how much you farm, better items are always a few clicks away on the AH, it's always more efficient to use the AH. Finding awesome items as drops will always be way more fun than buying them Wal Mart style from the AH, however farming is just a gigantic inefficient waste of time. Knowing this kills the fun. The AH clearly isn't going away, but something needs to be done to promoting FINDING items, not just buying them in the AH. Unfortunately I have no answer on this. Find a solution though if you want D3 to be fufilling despite the existence of the AH.

    8. The world is not as dark/gothic/mysterious

    Yes the old art controvesy is back, in fact it never went away. I know this has been said a million times, but the game is NOT as dark as previous Diablo games, I'm sorry it just isn't. It's too cartoony and it really detracts from the game. A lot of this is due to the horrible story (see point 5). There's way too much dialog breaking the mood, way too much comedic relief, villains that behave like petulant 4 year olds taunting you, not to mention the pastel haze over everything. Azmodan and Diablo aren't scary or mysterious, they're inept cartoon villains. My character or followers constantly spotting one liners doesn't make me smile or draw me in, it KILLS THE MOOD.

    9. The music is basically non-existant

    The actual music tracks that are present are ok, but for some reason it was decided that 95% of the game it should be bland background ambient noise rather than discernable tracks and it makes the game feel dull and lifeless. I know you don't have access to the talents of Matt Uelman anymore, but surely something could have been done more interesting than barely noticable background rifts. Music creates mood, followers spouting off stupid lines do not.

    10. The level cap

    It took many months upon months to reach the level cap in prior Diablo games, you always felt motivated to play because you were always leveling up. So if you were farming items and not getting anything good, at least you were leveling, your character would improve, you'd get those 5 stat points and shiny new skill point to spend, grinding to get it gave you a sense of progress, no matter what was dropping. The paragon system has tried to address this shortcoming but is still not as rewarding as regular leveling would be.

    11. The drop rates are terribly out of whack breaking the slot machine effect

    In D2 you were getting uniques and sets frequently, maybe they mostly sucked but you were still getting them, and were possibly useful for your low level characters, which you would DEFINITELY be making over and over again.. It kept the carrot/slot machine effect in a positive way. In D3 legendaries and sets barely drop at all and RARES DROP TOO MUCH because they are normally crap. Items should drop with frequency proportional to their power, but can't be an extreme where they drop too frequently or too infrequently as it breaks the slot machine effect. Finding the "sweet spot" for drops is a delicate task, drop too much, it's boring, don't drop enough, also boring and frustrating. I'm not sure what the sweet spot is, but D2 felt right, D3 does not
  • #2
    1 (The items are boring and uninteresting): Meh, heard that a few times too often. At least for me it was not that much different in D2. At some point, you had settled on specific stats (and in contrast to D3, you couldn't switch anymore with that specific character), so for example my sorc just wanted +skills, +FCR, +FHR and some resistances. Didn't care too much about other stats. Just different affixes, but in the end it was the same "minor upgrade hunt" during endgame.
    2 (No character investment): Completely agree. Wonder if they're able to change this in the x-pac. Doubt so.
    3 (No social system): Couldn't care less. This is not an MMO, lobby, chat and blurb is not very high up on my list. The problem here is not D3 itself, but B.Net 2.0 which is a huge disappointment (was already the case for SC2).
    4 (All game aspects have been simplified/streamlined/removed): To be fair, that's something we knew right from the beginning. it just didn't turn out all too well (yet), they're working on it to make it interesting despite being simple. "More complicated" isn't always better.
    5 (The story is terrible and is shoved down your throat): Yep, agree.
    6 (The world is not random or open enough): ABSOLUTELY AGREE. I want D1's random square dungeons back.
    7 (The AH makes the item hunt feel pointless and boring): Has been discussed in the other topic - again, we knew that from the beginning. It changed the game, yes. Learn to live with it.
    8 (The world is not as dark/gothic/mysterious): As mentioned in the other thread, can't hear this anymore; the bigger change was going from D1 to D2 for me here. Disagree.
    9 (The music is basically non-existant): There's music? Didn't notice ;-) => Agree.
    10 (The level cap): Yeah... I'd have to agree with that.
    11 (The drop rates are terribly out of whack breaking the slot machine effect): Disagree. Go back to D2 and do some Baal runs, they're even less rewarding. At some point progression just gets damn slow, people tend to forget that. Take your high-end level 90+ D2 char and try to find some upgrades.
  • #3
    ok, so my opinion point to point:
    1. i find the items ok - yellows I mean. before the legendary buff the market was ok for yellows. one could easily find a yellow upgrade and almost all yellows were worth picking up and identifying them. the problem i think came with the legendary buff. i'm ok with the legendary drop rate but it the problems are:
    - there are some legendaries that are a must - like manticore, mempo, echoing fury and few others.
    - weapons with crit damage and socket - the only way to get higher then 100k dps.
    - the only 2 hand viable - skorn
    - no shield viable
    - no yellow sources or WD offhand. only legendaryes.
    That is why AH is now moving only for the hands and jewelery yellows.
    By the way AH is a wonderful tool to see game itemization flaws.
    So as a nerf is impossible - maybe a little buff to the yellows is in order - and the best thing to do here is with BOA crafting yellows. For me it would be the answer. Would give a + to the yellow in order to make them capable of reaching Legendary status, would make me farm for materials, and I would feel good about a personalized item - being BOA and all. I would affect AH - but i'm not playing for the AH

    2. Character investment: I like this system... - if i see a new build i can try it in minutes and have hours trying to make it work for me... not having (not liking) to work a few hours in order to be able to try it. The game is supposed to be fun - not taxing me for trying to have fun and making me do stuff i dislike - like leveling 6 barbs in order to keep 5 naked (it would be pointless to invest in 6 gears and cruel to make items BOA across the board).
    If you like leveling - try hardcore... that would make you level countless characters. even if you make it to 60 - farming inferno HC is a constant roulette, quite challenging...

    3. the social system now is ok by me - this is diablo not WW. i like to hack and slash monsters. for chatting i have a background skype . again - if i want a public game i can join one. If i want something specific i ask it in general chat. (ex: uber runs). the single problem i see is that now if i want to play with 1-3 friends i am punished by loosing some buffs - the follower buffs. Like xp and MF bonuses... so i am more likely to play alone then with friends in order to achieve 100 paragon faster and have higher MF. this should be fixed somehow.

    4. that's kinda good. thus the players base is higher... in D2 hearing of a girl playing diablo was WOW. now it is common - because of the simplicity of choosing gear, build, a weapon is usually a weapon and so on. indeed for a dedicated player detail matter but i find there are plenty of details out there... like you must be quite dedicated in order to understand how a ww barb or CM wizard works... I know there are plenty who hear about a build - but there is little bit of difference between choosing 2-3 skills/runes and making a build work well. I've seen plenty barbs with WW and sprint on the bar that did not make them WW barbs... on more then one occasion when playing with these kind of strangers i hat to teach them about the tornadoes, the attacks per second and their importance, about how to keep up a WOTB, how to gain and to spend fury... and so on.
    There are also details that are rendered futile - like the "rest in pieces" bonus that would be great but is on usually brimstone legendaries.

    5. ok with all that about the story. seems dull to me - could of done a better job there. and i still do not like the checkpoints system...

    6. ok with this too. cool maps but way to static. i understood their randomization principle - but having kinda fixed entry and exit points cuts the now implemented to almost zero. first thing to change here is make entry and exit really random. and the maps could use some more randomization... blizz should really make us work for that exit :) Also maps should have more monsters (they know and want to do something about this) make me work for the exit and not just run in the general direction i know it is killing a few monsters in the way... (remember the ice caves in d2 )

    7. AH is ok with me...first it regulets a market that would still exist if AH would of not been developed. I feel ok and safe to trade in Blizz ah then on forums and third party sites. If you were blizz why would you accept for others make real money with you game when you could make them and make players feel safe at the same time, and making those who benefit from selling good stuff they find and do not need bigger? I for one without AH i would never buy or sell from third party. others would and so the player base would be split between those benefiting from it and those in real disadvantage from not doing it.
    And the thrill of the find it is still there. most of my items are found because i would rarely sell my item and give 1-2 mil in order to get a marginal increase. i use ah only for a good increase in stats (or different build gear) and for selling good stuff that i would not use. Why not. I also made dome eru on rmah - enough to cover my d3 license an probably one or two expansions as well ... so ah is good for me.

    8. Yep - could of been a little darker... i liked the scrapped artwork better but that's life - i like how it is as well. the details are impressive nonetheless.

    9. agree as well. i remember the first time d3 was news it was about 5 years before release and the news was that blizz started recording d3 music with the Moscow choir. And that sounded impressive. Now the music for me in D3 is almost nonexistent - maybe i have the settings wrong but this part says nothing to me.

    10. i don't see your point here... comparing to d2? your point is moot... i play at least 2 hours daily on a single char from the 2nd hour of release ( :) remembre the release night? :) ) with leoric, hellfire ring, helm soket and folower hellfire - and i'm just 81 (ww barb :) )... i know i'm not using the ww barb at it's fulles (no wotb and no short runs - i like clearing act 3 at least 80%). So almost a year of playing and still not 100% - now that is a game. in d2 lvl 90 was a matter of days... not to mention that after lvl 70/80 one would simply outmatch all content and the chalange was zero... now that's overdoing it with rewards...
    At least now i can relax on mp0 blowing things up - or go to mp7 ubers to get my ass..ets whooped bigtime regardless of my paragon.

    11. allready talked about it above....

    have a nice day

    p.s. i had to cut down on emoticons so hope you see/imagine my lol's here and there.
  • #4
    (thanks Bagstone for a nice "template" ;) )

    1 (The items are boring and uninteresting): I agree. There are not enough "game changing" affixes in legendaries, such as "grants skill x" or "you have no mana/discipiline/whatever but deal 5000% more damage" etc. The legendaries are just buffed rares. Additionally, the design decision to make CC/CD/IAS/Primary stat so dominating was not the best. At least primary stat and vitality should primarily come from your character and not from your equipment.
    2 (No character investment): My opinion is that the majority of players do not want to play characters from 1-60 again and again. So I actually like the current system. Maybe there should be a way to control the stat distribution but that too should be respecable.
    3 (No social system): Named games and better lobbies would be nice (but not mandatory for me). The 4 player limit is a tad small but fine by me.
    4 (All game aspects have been simplified/streamlined/removed): Yes, some things should have stayed like truly different elemental damage types and monster specific bonuses etc. But they are mostly "flavor" so not a critical issue.
    5 (The story is terrible and is shoved down your throat): The story is not the best but hey, who really cares? :D I agree that there should be an option to disable all the story stuff.
    6 (The world is not random or open enough): I actually don't agree on this and prefer the non-random areas to the randoms. I don't think random dungeons enhance replayability because well, they still look the same to me even though some corridors are in a different place. I also don't care about the fact that I can't travel freely between acts.
    7 (The AH makes the item hunt feel pointless and boring): I like the convenience of the AH too much to let it go. But I think crafting should be improved even further so that the AH wouldn't be as dominant as it is now.
    8 (The world is not as dark/gothic/mysterious): I disagree with this. I love the art and graphics.
    9 (The music is basically non-existant): I disagree, the soundtrack is actually very good. And the voice acting is, well, best ever in anything. :)
    10 (The level cap): I think Paragon leveling is enough.
    11 (The drop rates are terribly out of whack breaking the slot machine effect): I think this would be fixed with a better itemization so this is really an effect of your point number 1. Also better crafting could help with this, as you'd at least end up with crafting materials even if you don't find anything amazing.

    tl;dr: Better itemization and rebalancing the power between a "naked" character vs. item granted power would make D3 an amazing game from my view.
  • #5
    Introduction: I'm a 30 year old engineer who used to be a hardcore gamer (RTS/FPS/PC/PLAYSTATION), but since some years it has become more casual (10-15 hours a week) because of busy life and busy job. Note: I have never played D1 or D2, but as I said before, I've always been a hardcore gamer so I know what makes a game great or bad.

    1. The items are boring and uninteresting
    >> I dont get this complaint. I have been playing since the release, and I'm still changing my build from time to time because I learn of new interesting items that have good value / DPS balance, or learning of interesting sets with their bonusses. By now I'm getting the feeling that I have seen almost all items and investigated them, and currently I'm searching for those few BiS items with great rolls, but hey, I have been playing the freaking game for 9 months (and I'm also the kind of guy that reads lots of forums)!! I guess that when you play this game 8 hours a day, you have seen it all after 3 months, but I dont have that problem as a casual player. I also have to add to this that I only played wizard, so there is still a whole lot to learn about items from other classes! I also dont get why the item's are 'boring': Their names are distinct and the artwork is great and recognizable. What's boring about that? What should be different to make it not boring?

    2. No character investment
    >> I have spended 75% of my free gametime on paragon leveling my character to paragon level 50. I think that is enough investment for me. It took me a long time (as a casual player), and I'm happy with the result. I also hope that i will not lose this investment in the expansion.

    3. No social system
    >> I have never ever played a game with a 'good social system'. The social system I prefer is the one I create myself by playing with friends, or playing with people you contact on forums (for example I needed some help to get my hellfire ring so I contacted someone on the official forums). Thats enough for me, I don't need strangers in my game.
    >> I do think that the current public implementation is poor because you have no control over which game you joing (type of game or goal of game).

    4. All game aspects have been simplified/streamlined/removed
    It took me a long enough to truly understand ALL the mechanics of this game. And over the first 100 hours I experimented A LOT with different builds and runes. I had a lot of fun with that. I do understand that it is difficult if developers remove complexity that was adding fun to the game (I have experienced that myself with the transition from Supreme Commander 1 --> Supreme Commander 2). But I have to add, that for me as being new to Diablo, I think Diablo 3 is game with enough complexity to keep it interesting for at least 200 hours of gameplay. And thats still better than 90% of the games out there.

    5. The story is terrible and is shoved down your throat.
    >> Almost ALL stories in ALL computer games I have played were BAD. There was only 1 game where I liked the story, and that was in Max Payne 1. Except from that, they always suck more or less. Zelda is fun, but it is childish. Dune II is epic, but it is badly ripped from the original story from Frank Herbert. Diablo 3 is nothing special, but so isnt the rest of the games out there. For me its always about playing the game, and not about the great story.
    >> btw, the game lets you turm almost everything off (leah talkin / chatting etc)

    6. The world is not random or open enough
    >> I think the implemented randomness is nice, but could have been more sophisticated with greater randomness. Currenctly the randomness is just too subtle, but it still works.
    >> I have to add to this: personally I always love the fact that after a while you get to know the game. In FPS games its always a strong point when you improve skills because of map knowledge. In Diablo 3 I like how my speedfarming improved by knowing all the shortcuts on the maps where I can teleport my wizard through and gain some time-advantage :)

    7. The AH makes the item hunt feel pointless and boring
    >> To my opnion, Diablo 3 = AH. Personally I love it. I always loved trade games, and I always loved action games. Diablo 3 is finally an attempt to marry those two concepts together. The AH has realistic macro-economy behavior, and that is great.
    >> But, I do think that Blizzard really really really really missed a chance by leaving out a game option where you can play without the AH. They should have had removed the AH from the Hardcore game option. I would have definitely tried that out if it was implemented.
    >> The AH just make Diablo 3 a whole other game. I think that Diablo 3 is great to play with the AH and I think that Diablo 3 is great to play without the AH. Unfortunately Blizzard did not gave us any choice. That sucks.

    8. The world is not as dark/gothic/mysterious
    >> The artwork is good. Maybe it could have been darker, but I would never classify the Diablo 3 artwork as childish or teletubby. I think their creative lead did a good job, and complaining about it feels a bit unfair.

    9. The music is basically non-existant
    >> I ALWAYS turn music off in games. Even when it is great music (Red Alert II for example). The main reason for this is that I'm almost always talking to other people on skype/mumble.

    10. The level cap
    >> Reaching paragon 100 takes an awfull long time. I do not see how this is broken. Also the reward for paragon is significant.

    11. The drop rates are terribly out of whack breaking the slot machine effect
    >> Diablo 3 is all about the AH. Unfortunately this means that only 0.1% of your drops have some value. I do think they did something wrong here, because I cant even remember the last time I identified a yellow rare that was worth more than 1m. They should have compensated this by making items or salvaging materials more usable.
    >> Regarding the legendaries: They drop often enough, en 1 out of every 10 legendaries yields 1m to 10m, and 1 out of every 25 legendaries yields more than 10m. I think these numbers are fine as they are. I'm still happy when a legendary drops, but I know that will only find a few in my whole Diablo 3 career that are truly special. And that's fine, otherwise this game wouldn't had last 9 months as a casual player
  • #6
    Great response GoedeWiet. It's especially interesting to read what someone has to say who isn't biased by D1/D2. Just nice to see a post that is fairly objective and free of nostalgia. (As someone who plays Blizzard games for 20 years I'm all in for nostalgia, but when you criticize a game that tries to make a step forward and not two steps back we should all try to keep nostalgia out of it.)
  • #7
    1. The items are boring and uninteresting

    If getting minor upgrades in D3 is boring why was it so effective in D2? I remember searching for ages for a slightly better Vampire Gaze. Why? Because 1% more Life Leech would make me that much stronger. I fail to see how that is any different from what we're doing in D3.

    2. No character investment

    D2 released several patches which completely invalidated characters. Even Path of Exile, which doesn't really have respecs, the developers have acknowledged that if they ever do something drastic that invalidates a build they'll allow a one-off respec. Rerolling toons because of patches is NOT FUN. Rerolling toons because you misclicked is NOT FUN. Replaying 1-60 is NOT FUN. The game, most specifically, is about the item hunt at max level. The journey to max level is just a small bit of the game, really, and why you'd want to turn that upside-down is beyond me.

    3. No social system

    Usually I'm for choices. I, too, miss 8-player games. But I really hate the "stop tellin me how to play" argument. It's so shallow and so un-intellectual. All games tell you how to play. All games have a set of rules. Would FFVII have been more enjoyable if I didn't have to pick three of the heroes to be in my party? Sure, cause I loved them all, but the game was designed for a party of three for a reason. If D3 were to have 8-player games again they'd probably have to do something to reduce the graphical lag from all the spell effects. They could do that, of course, but it's not quite so simple.

    As for the rest of the "social" aspect... I never used the chat in D2. I used my friends.

    4. All game aspects have been simplified/streamlined/removed

    The "dumbed down" argument is, well... dumb. I don't know how often people have to point out that complexity is not necessarily a good thing. World of Warcraft had a lot of complex mechanics (and still does) at launch. Blizzard correctly realized that complexity for the sake of complexity is not a good thing. People having to do hours of research per week to stay current on how to play is not good for the community, it's not good for generating new interest, it's not good for sustaining a game. D2 was not exactly complex.

    Every game in the "bullet hell" genre is brutally simple, yet still retains a large degree of difficulty. Pick up Ikaruga. You'll see a game that is stunningly simple, yet still not easy. You don't need to be doing complex calculus on-the-fly for a game to be a good game. Anyone who ascribes to that is just trying to passive-aggressively call other people baddies, nothing more.

    5. The story is terrible and is shoved down your throat.

    Who cares? I'd love a non-storymode mode. Again the "forced down your throat" bit really takes things away from your argument. You're purposefully using language that gets an emotive response rather than a cool-headed response. It's like talking to a politician.

    6. The world is not random or open enough

    They only have to do one thing to address this, really. Make the sub-zones profitable so that people hunt them down and do them.

    7. The AH makes the item hunt feel pointless and boring

    It was always more efficient to trade in D2 too, even if trading wasn't as efficient as the AH. The AH is a huge boon for item-sellers. Being able to sell items without having to make a public game and hoping that people will come in and not be trying to scam me is a gigantic step forward. Ultimately, even if you trade or buy on the AH the items still have to come from somwehere - someone has to find them. You speak as if the AH creates items. Killing monsters still creates items. The AH just helps proliferate said items. If everyone stopped killing monsters there wouldn't be a supply of things to sell on the AH, so try not to twist that around. The items on the AH are simply items that others have found that they don't want. It's the same items that were in D2 trade games, really.

    8. The world is not as dark/gothic/mysterious

    The art controversary should have begun with D2, which was drastically less-moody than D1. No one cared then, so it's frankly a bullshit argument now. If you could suffer through Act 2, in particular, of D2 without complaining about the artwork then you have absolutely no business complaining about D3. I, generally, like the D3 style of artwork. The first time I went through the Halls of Agony I really thought "wow, this Leoric guy was fucking twisted." In fact, I think that the Halls of Agony, alone, were thematically much more "Diablo" than almost anything in D2. Of course the graphics could be better, nothing is perfect, but I don't think the artwork in D3 was as far off-the-mark as some of you would really like us to believe.

    9. The music is basically non-existant

    I generally play most games with the sound off because of Vent/Mumble/Skype and/or MY music in the background. I wouldn't really know to comment one way or the other. I find the constant combat noise in games like WoW and D3 (swords clanging, etc.) to be very annoying which is another reason I generally play with sounds disabled.

    10. The level cap

    Huh? 1-60 + pLvls is plenty sufficient. If you're not pLvl 100 then you didn't reach the level cap. Given that only a small handful of players are pLvl 100 I'd say this really isn't an issue at all.

    11. The drop rates are terribly out of whack breaking the slot machine effect

    In D2 I also remember getting a metric fuckton of Isenhearts Breastplates from every fucking boss. Just because greens dropped doesn't mean anything. There are certainly some itemization things that Blizzard could work on (I'd support, for example, not allowing class-specific items to roll primary stats that aren't useful to that class - no str/int on 1h crossbows, no dex/str on ceremonial knives, mojos, wands, sources, no int/dex on mighty weapons, mighty belts - things like that). I'd also like to see a bit tighter roll ranges on sets and legendaries. Outside of that I'm not sure I want to see that many changes to itemization go in at once.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
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    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #9

    Great response GoedeWiet. It's especially interesting to read what someone has to say who isn't biased by D1/D2. Just nice to see a post that is fairly objective and free of nostalgia. (As someone who plays Blizzard games for 20 years I'm all in for nostalgia, but when you criticize a game that tries to make a step forward and not two steps back we should all try to keep nostalgia out of it.)


    I obviously disagree. The yardstick one uses to rate D3 has to be D2:LoD. You just can't escape from it.
  • #10
    MY TURN.

    1. The items are boring and uninteresting
    Agree and disagree. Items are boring when everyone feels pigeon-holed into using the same stats (primary stat, vitality, resistance, armor, crit chance, crit damage, attack speed, sockets, life steal, etc.). But at the same time, there are more varieties of stat combos that are popping up as the game evolves. More resource-focused stats. Pickup radius. Life regeneration. High block. Individual skill bonuses. You know what I'm trying out right now? A 70% block chance wizard... let's see how that goes. Do you want fun or efficiency? Do you think efficiency is fun? Some people have fun min/maxing their character (like me) so they go for the desired stats. Something that can make the game more interesting perhaps, is to add more effects based on stat thresholds, but that's for another time.

    2. No character investment
    True, there's no thinking involved to make your character "grow." All the skills will do the same damage if the character has certain stats. And also everyone looks the same. Nothing really hooks you to a character that you create and main other than its personalized name, I guess.

    3. No social system
    No. Have a friends list really is enough. Diablo is all about the single-player grind with the option for co-op. The chat channels could be revamped a little (the drop boxes are sort of a nuisance), but the trade channel, general channel, etc. all suit their purposes. If you want to check out people's gear, you can just type "/who" and you can get a whole list of people who are in the channel with you. Right click, view profile, done. I do agree with the player cap, though. Five would certainly be more reasonable considering there are five class types. Six would probably be the best. Eight might just be overboard. This isn't supposed to be an MMO after all.

    4. All game aspects have been simplified/streamlined/removed
    You can argue everything in the world has been dumbed down, not just gaming. Sure, there could be a lot more customization for items and skills, and I'm sure many people would appreciate that. It just goes to show how much more this game can be improved on (which we are already seeing with the patches). Internally, the game is still very complex based on what we currently have. Just ask the theorycrafters and their proc coefficient calculations for each skill. There are synergy to skills that are available. At the end, I wouldn't say all game aspects have been simplified. Some have, some haven't. Geez, you want to know what's a really complex game that looks incredibly simple on the outside, actually? Pokemon.

    5. The story is terrible and is shoved down your throat.
    Yes.

    6. The world is not random or open enough
    Just goes to show the game might have been overly rushed. Don't tell me you don't think Act I is awesome in terms of design? It's both expansive and random just enough to provide more variety per playthrough. Just look at how amazing Act I is compared to Act II - IV. Wonder why the beta only featured a smidgen of Act I? I'm not sure how this could be fixed, but if every other Act was as expansive and detailed as Act I, I'm sure a lot of people would have fewer complaints about dungeon randomization and repetitive farm runs (if they fix the mob densities).

    7. The AH makes the item hunt feel pointless and boring
    I'm not going to argue about this since this one has been absolutely chewed up, spit out, beaten to death, crapped on, harvested and devoured by dung beetles and bottle flies, and recrapped as fertilizer for QQ.

    8. The world is not as dark/gothic/mysterious
    Would you prefer more dead babies and dead puppies? Yes, the environment may be too colorful for most, but I still believe the art is still very well done. I really think this applies more for Act II and just little bits of Act I when roaming outdoors. Don't tell me the Halls of Agony, Arreat Crater, Tower of the Damned and Cursed aren't dark enough. And don't tell me the Caverns of Araneae isn't mysterious and dark enough because, by God, that map drives me nuts.

    9. The music is basically non-existant
    I don't think the music is really a priority in-game. They fit well enough for the cinematic cutscenes, and that's pretty much the only real job for the soundtrack. Honestly, when I'm melting demons, I want to hear their blood-curdling screams of pain, not violins.

    10. The level cap
    There are people still not even a third way to paragon 100 since the paragon patch was implemented. To hit paragon 100 in a "reasonable" amount of time still involves hours and hours and hours of diligent and efficient farming. Sure, there could be more perks to leveling, but I think it's pretty good where it is right now. Honestly, if I were a fan of gaming, I wouldn't like being unable to reach max level unless I played for 1,000 hours... that's a little too much.

    11. The drop rates are terribly out of whack breaking the slot machine effect
    It's bad, but not as bad as you make it sound. You're still more likely to find a very, very nice item in D3 than winning the Mega Millions jackpot. That's the whole point of leveling paragon, which coincides with how much "potentially quality" loot you can get. I believe many high paragon players can attest to legendaries and sets already raining down faster than they should. Yes, the stats themselves can be reworked a bit (I particularly agree with shaggy and the tweaks to removing non-relevant stats on class-specific items).
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #11
    I agree with most everything, but mostly with item design. The way items work, they just haven't built a good foundation for creating truly memorable and exciting items. 10 years of items gaining slight increases in stats/dps sounds like a bad idea. (It also has a lot to do with how stats affect your character, but that's a can of worms...)

    Items need to have flavor beyond, "Hey, this mace makes my enemies run away woo-hoo!"

    I mean, just look at this page. Your mouth will water.

    http://classic.battl...e/uswords.shtml

    (My personal fav always was Lightsabre for it's ridiculous attack speed on a Zealadin.)

    I just want items to lust after, as silly as that sounds. But that's what I did in D2, and that's what kept me up til 5 in the morning.

    And though we hardly need it, for comparisons sake:

    http://us.battle.net...#type=legendary

    In the meantime I guess I'll get moderately excited about finding a ring with more crit or attack speed. :(
  • #12
    To the people saying that music is a non-issue: there's a reason everyone knows Tristram's theme. Which track from D3 will you still remember in 10 years' time?
  • #13

    To the people saying that music is a non-issue: there's a reason everyone knows Tristram's theme. Which track from D3 will you still remember in 10 years' time?


    If any, then definitely the track that plays during act 3. For obvious reasons. :P

    No, seriously. The music in D3 is the one thing that makes the atmosphere and experience feel less epic than in previous Blizzard games. That's why I can't hear this crap about GFX anymore; Torchlight 2 is a crappy game and the cartoon graphics are as colorful as if someone vomited a rainbow all over the textures. But the D1-like (!!!!) music makes me play this crappy game at the moment instead of D3 (well, to be honest, I just wanna see TL2 and evaluate it myself before coming back to D3 1.07 and craft the hell out of it).

    Edit: Besides Tristram music and some of the WoW vanilla tracks, this here is probably my all-time favorite Blizzard sountrack. Never ever ever will I forget this...
  • #14

    To the people saying that music is a non-issue: there's a reason everyone knows Tristram's theme. Which track from D3 will you still remember in 10 years' time?


    Not counting the Tristram theme, how many other songs can you remember from D2? True, that theme is legendary but it is still just one song that you can hear in a very limited area. It should not define the entire D2 soundtrack (which I think is great, don't get me wrong here, I can remember the town theme in Act 5 still for example).

    I think especially the menu musics in D3 are memorable:
    All in all, there has to be a reason why I still keep the music unmuted after playing for over 300 hours. :) For me, the overall sound design in D3 is the best in any game this far when taking into account the music, the effects and the voice-overs.
  • #15

    All in all, there has to be a reason why I still keep the music unmuted after playing for over 300 hours. :) For me, the overall sound design in D3 is the best in any game this far when taking into account the music, the effects and the voice-overs.


    Your other recent post is so spot on it could've been mine (+1'd it), but I have to disagree here. From the very first moment I wasn't too convinced of D3's sound design. I remember exactly when I saw the D3 announcement and the first gameplay trailer and the music started and I was just like "nah, this is too loud, too bombastic". In my opinion the music is too busy and doesn't have this climax building feeling of the Tristram theme. Sure, it's difficult to repeat that; D2 didn't manage to do it either (I think TL2 is the first game ever to bring back the same musical feeling that D1 conveyed), but at least D2's music was not as blustering and "in your face" as D3 music.

    But obviously taste of music is very subjective. If they ever introduce rap/hip hop music anywhere many people would probably rejoice, I would instantly turn around and never look at such a game again. And my preference for quiet, dark background music in computer games might be due to years of playing Fallout ;-)
  • #16

    But obviously taste of music is very subjective. If they ever introduce rap/hip hop music anywhere many people would probably rejoice, I would instantly turn around and never look at such a game again. And my preference for quiet, dark background music in computer games might be due to years of playing Fallout ;-)


    You're right, everybody has their own taste in music. :) I'm hoping they'll hire Skrillex or Knife Party to do the music for the expansion(s). WUB WUB one does not simply dubstep into Hell. :Thumbs Up:
  • #17


    To the people saying that music is a non-issue: there's a reason everyone knows Tristram's theme. Which track from D3 will you still remember in 10 years' time?


    Not counting the Tristram theme, how many other songs can you remember from D2? True, that theme is legendary but it is still just one song that you can hear in a very limited area. It should not define the entire D2 soundtrack (which I think is great, don't get me wrong here, I can remember the town theme in Act 5 still for example).


    I just named Tristram theme because it made no sense to go through the list.
    But I still remember lots of them: Rogue encampment; Act 5, like you said; Lut Gholein. Hell, I remember most of them. From D1 I remember the most iconic few (oh, man...CAVES! dat drum...), but I was much younger back then. They were of a much more creepy and sometimes subtle nature. A lot of D3's themes are much more of the "grand scale epic" type (like the one that sometimes plays in the log-in screen) that I don't think fits well in the series. Like Bagstone said, "too loud, too bombastic".
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