Jaetch...first of all, sorry if I sounded rude in some of my responses to you, I didn't mean to be a jerk about it, and I apologize.
Anyway...I watched the video you posted, about the "lamest wizard build ever," and to answer your question...it's definitely closer to what I had in mind, certainly gear-wise it is, :-). Like I said in the original post, I took a purely ranged class (a Demon Hunter) and purposely took away his left click skill so that he could swing the axe I'd equipped, pretty much changing the entire intention of the class, or even just changing how most people would play it. That's kinda what I meant.
You had mentioned when your Wizard hits things with an Echoing Fury, it's an amusing animation because of how it looks when it hits things with a hammer. That is actually what I mean. So, equipping a spellcaster with sword-and-board is on the right track...but I'd try it with the left click skill slot empty, so my Wizard could swing the melee weapon, :-)
Very cool video, though, really fun to watch. Like the use of Slow Time, I'll have to try out a Wizard like that myself. By the way, I'm now a subscriber to your videos.
I guess I'd have to say yes. I copy pasted an Archon build, face rolled Act 3 for a bit, and ended up getting so bored that I decided to go back to my original build, the one I had crafted on my own, and have decided to stick to that. Sure, I might lose 5-10% efficiency, but really if I'm playing a game and the goal isn't to have as much fun as possible, I might as well just call it work.
I understand the need for efficiency, since getting good drops is awesome, but it's not like the players who aren't running the top of the line builds are derping around with some goofy build that takes 6 minutes to kill an elite pack. So I don't even see the reason to worry about it.
My point exactly, Ignatius.
This game has a lot more styles of play than people give it credit for. People think builds aren't "viable" if they aren't facerolling Inferno MP10, but really, what we should all be asking is...what kinda stats are really required to just survive and kill reasonably on MP10? Sure, obviously, stacking massive amounts of crit chance and crit damage will do enough harm to enemies that you'll kill fast enough to survive...but if I don't need nearly as much, I'll get what I need and still have room to make a build I LIKE, as opposed to just doing what everyone else is doing.
And really, if I can go against the grain and do something unorthodox AND survive MP10, I'm damn sure going to. Especially in this community, where there's such a consensus of "everyone's doing the same thing, why don't you." People are feeling massively upset that their skills don't set them apart, but part of the reason I posted this thread is to basically say...why aren't people going against the grain and doing their own thing? So far, the best reasoning is "efficiency," and I can't argue that unorthodox builds aren't the MOST efficient.....
But let's look at it the other way....are the most "efficient" builds the most fun to play? Or do they feel humdrum, boring, and cookie cutter? If they feel boring, then maybe that's a good reason to change one's style of play. :-) I've been wanting to make an ALL Spirit spell build for my Witch Doctor for a while now, and I finally figured out how to make mine work this morning, and it's a blast! I'm working on getting her to Inferno asap, so the real fun can start, but so far, it's going well. Might need a bit of rune tuning, battle strategy, but all in all, I'm liking it and it feels "mine."
@CardinalMDM: I refer you to my post on this page. I like RPG's, not action games. So the 'action' part of this game (the actual killing of the monsters) is no fun (to me) if there isn't a suitable reward (nice items dropping). That's why a lot of unorthodox builds are unappealing: they're TOO inefficient in terms of what I'm looking to get out of the game (item drops).
If you don't find the reward suitable, that's kind of an overarcing problem that may cause you to dislike this game with time. If the problem is simply "efficiency," then people can use their most "efficient" builds to farm the right kinds of gear to make unorthodox builds work as optimally as they can. We all get tons of stash space. As long as it's cleaned out regularly of any junk, and/or organized properly, you can have multiple gear sets saved for all your characters. So, an "efficiency" set for quality farming, and then a fun alternate set that's just for messing around.
I understand the efficiency problem, but not every build needs to be efficient. I mean, characters in this game are very gear dependent, which is bad in terms of innate skill and stat building, but it also ensures that gameplay experience can change based on what a player equips. All my characters will have a "best gear possible" set, certainly...but I'd love to give each one an alternate set so if I get bored with how efficient I am, I can switch things up.
I don't think you're quite getting it (or you are, but you just called it "an overarching problem").
Without the rewards, D3's gameplay is basically God of War. I hate God of War.
What I liked about D2 wasn't the combat; it was everything else. When talking about the virtues of D3, most people mention the fluidity of combat, the physics, the graphics, etc. These are all things that aren't very important (to me) in RPGs.
That's why a lot of people are hung up on 'efficiency'. It's because it's the only thing that's left. Without that, all you have is the same old hack and slash action game. Like God of War. I hate God of War.
I am getting it, Maka. You like getting lots of gear, because you see Diablo as an RPG. I get that, believe me I do. What I'm saying is, if all you want is gear, then sure...go enjoy efficiency. Be as efficient as possible, farm as much gear as you can. Hell, invest in the tools and programs for multiboxing, that's a legal way to get as much gear as humanly possible.
What I'm saying is, there's far more to this game than just efficiency. I find the challenge of rummaging through every piece of gear I pick up and fishing out the best stuff, or the most useful stuff, the most fun part. I love the combat and physics, like others do, but because this game provides such a flowing string of stuff to pick up, that's the part I like.
You hate God of War, I respect that. You think without "efficiency", D3 turns into God of War, that's where I think you're wrong. D3, even not being as deep as D2, will still be deeper than God of War. It will still offer more to find and more to do than God of War.
Basically, what I'm getting at is..."efficiency" just gets you to the end faster. Efficiency just means you're blasting through every possible pickup, drop and piece of treasure as fast as you can. This thread was intended for people who aren't looking for efficiency, It was intended for people who want additional challenge beyond just "gearing up the right way," and want to expand their gameplay experience to something quirky.
If that idea or way of thinking isn't for you, I respect that. But while I do respect it, this thread likely isn't for you either, ;-)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Jaetch...first of all, sorry if I sounded rude in some of my responses to you, I didn't mean to be a jerk about it, and I apologize.
Anyway...I watched the video you posted, about the "lamest wizard build ever," and to answer your question...it's definitely closer to what I had in mind, certainly gear-wise it is, :-). Like I said in the original post, I took a purely ranged class (a Demon Hunter) and purposely took away his left click skill so that he could swing the axe I'd equipped, pretty much changing the entire intention of the class, or even just changing how most people would play it. That's kinda what I meant.
You had mentioned when your Wizard hits things with an Echoing Fury, it's an amusing animation because of how it looks when it hits things with a hammer. That is actually what I mean. So, equipping a spellcaster with sword-and-board is on the right track...but I'd try it with the left click skill slot empty, so my Wizard could swing the melee weapon, :-)
Very cool video, though, really fun to watch. Like the use of Slow Time, I'll have to try out a Wizard like that myself. By the way, I'm now a subscriber to your videos.
My point exactly, Ignatius.
This game has a lot more styles of play than people give it credit for. People think builds aren't "viable" if they aren't facerolling Inferno MP10, but really, what we should all be asking is...what kinda stats are really required to just survive and kill reasonably on MP10? Sure, obviously, stacking massive amounts of crit chance and crit damage will do enough harm to enemies that you'll kill fast enough to survive...but if I don't need nearly as much, I'll get what I need and still have room to make a build I LIKE, as opposed to just doing what everyone else is doing.
And really, if I can go against the grain and do something unorthodox AND survive MP10, I'm damn sure going to. Especially in this community, where there's such a consensus of "everyone's doing the same thing, why don't you." People are feeling massively upset that their skills don't set them apart, but part of the reason I posted this thread is to basically say...why aren't people going against the grain and doing their own thing? So far, the best reasoning is "efficiency," and I can't argue that unorthodox builds aren't the MOST efficient.....
But let's look at it the other way....are the most "efficient" builds the most fun to play? Or do they feel humdrum, boring, and cookie cutter? If they feel boring, then maybe that's a good reason to change one's style of play. :-) I've been wanting to make an ALL Spirit spell build for my Witch Doctor for a while now, and I finally figured out how to make mine work this morning, and it's a blast! I'm working on getting her to Inferno asap, so the real fun can start, but so far, it's going well. Might need a bit of rune tuning, battle strategy, but all in all, I'm liking it and it feels "mine."
If you don't find the reward suitable, that's kind of an overarcing problem that may cause you to dislike this game with time. If the problem is simply "efficiency," then people can use their most "efficient" builds to farm the right kinds of gear to make unorthodox builds work as optimally as they can. We all get tons of stash space. As long as it's cleaned out regularly of any junk, and/or organized properly, you can have multiple gear sets saved for all your characters. So, an "efficiency" set for quality farming, and then a fun alternate set that's just for messing around.
I understand the efficiency problem, but not every build needs to be efficient. I mean, characters in this game are very gear dependent, which is bad in terms of innate skill and stat building, but it also ensures that gameplay experience can change based on what a player equips. All my characters will have a "best gear possible" set, certainly...but I'd love to give each one an alternate set so if I get bored with how efficient I am, I can switch things up.
I am getting it, Maka. You like getting lots of gear, because you see Diablo as an RPG. I get that, believe me I do. What I'm saying is, if all you want is gear, then sure...go enjoy efficiency. Be as efficient as possible, farm as much gear as you can. Hell, invest in the tools and programs for multiboxing, that's a legal way to get as much gear as humanly possible.
What I'm saying is, there's far more to this game than just efficiency. I find the challenge of rummaging through every piece of gear I pick up and fishing out the best stuff, or the most useful stuff, the most fun part. I love the combat and physics, like others do, but because this game provides such a flowing string of stuff to pick up, that's the part I like.
You hate God of War, I respect that. You think without "efficiency", D3 turns into God of War, that's where I think you're wrong. D3, even not being as deep as D2, will still be deeper than God of War. It will still offer more to find and more to do than God of War.
Basically, what I'm getting at is..."efficiency" just gets you to the end faster. Efficiency just means you're blasting through every possible pickup, drop and piece of treasure as fast as you can. This thread was intended for people who aren't looking for efficiency, It was intended for people who want additional challenge beyond just "gearing up the right way," and want to expand their gameplay experience to something quirky.
If that idea or way of thinking isn't for you, I respect that. But while I do respect it, this thread likely isn't for you either, ;-)