Patch 1.0.7 and AH Economy

  • #41
    Quote from m4st0d0n

    Quote from Zero(pS)
    In D2, duping and character editors were abundant. Sometimes I understand what Jay Wilson meant about fighting people's memories. Try playing D2 again, no help from anything, and let me know how many hours it takes to get the runes for an Enigma (I'm pretty sure it's somewhere around 1k). That's how you supposedly "stay away from the economy". People remember D2 differently because it was a much easier game, and because they could have anything with dupes.

    And I think that Jay Wilson, and whole Blizzard as a matter of fact, is in grave mistake if they think they know in full detail how people played Diablo 2, because they don't know a bit about people playing offline or a pirated version. That is the pitfall of data-driven game development. Data simply did not exist for the majority of players, as they were not playing connected to Diablo 2 was played worldwide, it was played on lan, and it was played on unofficial bnets. All those Diablo 2 players simply did not exist for Blizzard, and that's okay, because they never payed for the game. But Blizzard failed to realize that all those people will want to play Diablo 3 too, and their experience of Diablo 2 differs greatly from those played on legit bnet.

    TL;DR: When you, or Jay Wilson, or anyone at Blizzard say you're fighting people's memories you are actually trying to force your reality on other people's very different realities.

    Your post would be correct, if you were talking about a company like EA that doesn't care about people.

    When Jay Wilson talked about "memories of people", this does not translate to "look at D2 ladder data". They actually go out and do user interviews, studies, talk to people. The Blizzard job site has a lot of HCI positions with these requirements every now and then. Also, if you actually read the interview Zero was talking about, it has nothing to do with game data but it's just stuff you realize if you interview gamers or at least listen to their forum posts. So please don't assume D3 was developed around the D2 ladder mode; if this was the case, D3 would be a competitive esports game. The exact opposite is the case.

    And I can just +1 Zero's comment: there may have been a lot of dupes in ladder mode, but the stuff I saw on bigger LAN parties and in forums online was way beyond any dupes. Mods, cheats, character editors, savegames - stuff that makes dupes look like a joke. If you talk about online players enforce their reality on someone else, please don't do the same. I played both by the way, but never used trading. The main reason I switched to online play (and ladder) was because of the low level runewords. In 12 years of D2 I never found a real high rune, btw. So much for the people complaining about really good items/good rolls in D3 are too rare...
  • #42
    With your answers both of you actually proved my point. D2 had the possibility to be customized. D3 had none of that. Why not? The only gameplay customization option that was patched in so far is Monster Power, and that's nice, but it's nowhere enough to keep the game varied.

    So why is D3 so narrowed down if they knew the many different ways people played D2?
  • #43
    Quote from m4st0d0n

    With your answers both of you actually proved my point. D2 had the possibility to be customized. D3 had none of that. Why not? The only gameplay customization option that was patched in so far is Monster Power, and that's nice, but it's nowhere enough to keep the game varied.

    So why is D3 so narrowed down if they knew the many different ways people played D2?

    Can you be more specific what you're talking about if you say "D2 customization"?
  • #44
    As you said: "Mods, cheats, character editors, savegames - stuff that makes dupes look like a joke."

    This is good stuff if used for customization, and not to cheat other players.
  • #45
    Well, I guess we just disagree here. Take Torchlight for example to see why mods, cheats, character editors, and savegames - all available in both TL 1 and TL 2 - are not simply "good stuff" (there is a good side to them, but also a bad thing about them).

    Let's look at the problem of D3 and the people complaining about it. Besides our two frustrated non-AH players (make and indimix), all the D3 hate posts or more civilized constructive criticism I've heard comes from players who have played for many hundreds of hours, explored almost every aspect of the game (including the AH and its economy, which is the subject of this thread/discussion). It seems to be consensus that D3 is an okay-ish game for casual gamers, capturing in the beginning, but lacking long-term motivation and proper endgame.

    Now what about TL? Most reviews I've read, all people I've talked to who played it, and also to some extent my personal experience was that in the beginning the game is extremely fun and offers a lot of rewards. But upgrading gear is never an endless process, otherwise you would be at some million DPS at some point; so there needs to be a limit. Once you're getting closer to that limit, upgrades are harder to find, and just like in D3 you might end up playing a couple of hundreds of hours without finding anything that is a huge upgrade and gives you that awesome feeling of "yeah, I definitely improved my character a lot with this item". This was similar, if not the same in D2 offline play. And it was the reason why said character editors have 50m+ downloads: at some point you don't wait for the endgame, you take the shortcut and cheat. What does that mean? It's fun for a while, blasting through everything, but it soon becomes pointless, because you realize there are no (legal) upgrades. Even finding the BiS items won't mean anything to you, because you already have them, thanks to your character editor. Diablo is mainly about loot, and if you use cheats, savegames, char editors, you take away the core essence of the game.
  • #46
    Understand that it's not my wish to disencourage people to have different opinions, actually it's precisely the opposite.

    It's because I like the debate and acknowledge there's 2 sides to every discussion (specially when it comes to games) that it breaks my heart when I see people talking about a specific feature of D3 as if it was clearly a downgrade from D2, or that it's a "bad design", or that nobody likes a certain feature. These absolutes couldn't be more wrong, or we wouldn't have an AH full of items every single day.

    Some generic complaints have been said so many times that they've been carved into people's mind as absolute truths (check D3-related posts on IGN, Youtube, Gamespot) , to the point where whoever disagrees is just wrong, no questions asked (or is a fanboy). In terms of game mechanics, there's hardly "right" and "wrong". At most, you can say there's the "traditional" and the "innovative", and that your preference is "A" or "B".

    My only purpose with all these posts is to make sure both sides of an argument (those who like the AH and those who don't; or those who like Autostats and those who don't; those who like free respecs and those who don't) can at least acknowledge each other and agree to disagree respectfuly.

    I personally have a very hard time seeing people being ignorant towards someone else's preference (it's usually the starting point for homophobia and all sorts of prejudice).

    I prefer having offline and LAN modes, but I understand that's not going to happen anytime soon. Posting 500 messages all saying "fuck online-only, they ruined D3, fuck that loser Jay Wilson who is fat and Actiblizzard is the devil" isn't going to solve anything, and it's a shitty form of feedback.

    I'm kinda fed of people talking about some game aspects like angry kids who didn't get the toy they wanted for Christmas (the AH, items affixes, RNG, legendaries, game's too hard or too casual) - this isn't directed at anyone in particular btw.
  • #47
    Guys please dont make this one of those other, I HATE D3 thread. if u want to have your nagging rights, create a separate thread. this is called "
    Patch 1.0.7 and AH Economy

    " and NOT "Bitch about D3".

    Much appreciated
  • #48
    Quote from johnnyraro

    Quote from GroentjeBE

    I tried searching good deals on SoJ's. Because of dmg vs elites = dmg vs player. Rings will be flipped in about 2 weeks.

    The SOJ's are a nice investment, but, hmm keep nin mind on the stats u would be missing on a ring, both on a defensive(all res, armor, life regen) and offensive(avg dmg, primary stat, vit, Att Spd, CC, CDmg) point of view. I would maybe invest in 5 SOJ's or less depending on whish class will use it...

    30% dmg = 30% more life steal - 1000 times better than ANY defensive stats rings can roll with
    30% dmg = better than any offensive stats rings can roll with.

    Then you can add class affixes as a bonus.

    To sum it up, no there is no better rings, specially for pvp than SoJ.
    Currently played toon:

    Flipping/Sniping: 6577€
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