Patch 1.0.7 and AH Economy

  • #21
    Black weapons could be a valuable investment for later patches
  • #22
    Quote from Legion1103

    Black weapons could be a valuable investment for later patches
    Why is that? Supply reasons
  • #23
    Quote from Douillos

    I think there will be some good deals with amulets once the patch hits, with all the new craft material.
    But then again I play HC and the AH is sooooo much more active.
    well, existing amulets will drop in price because of the new crafting recipe for amulet, which can roll higher stats and r much "cheaper" in a sense to craft. Now the only thing we need are statitics on how many crafts till trifecta or godly items...
  • #24
    Quote from johnnyraro

    Now the only thing we need are statitics on how many crafts till trifecta or godly items...

    Good luck getting your "godlike" amulet or gloves. :P
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7709581148
  • #25
    No specifics but in general...

    Anything and everything that is level 58 or greater will go down in price. The supply is infinite whereas the demand is not. Infinite supply of goods, limited demand, everything of that sort will drop in price.

    In order for the above to hold true, the following assumptions were made:
    1. People keep playing this game on Inferno
    2. Even perfectly rolled items will occur more than once "eventually"

    Even things that are going up now, such as high EHP items will still drop down in price over time. The supply will just keep coming in.


    As for flipping techniques, its not complicated, look for what people are doing, find items that fulfill that need, buy lower than lowest buyout price if you can, resell.... That doesn't go into anything specific but any specifics that are posted, well, by then, its too late.
  • #26
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Quote from johnnyraro

    Now the only thing we need are statitics on how many crafts till trifecta or godly items...

    Good luck getting your "godlike" amulet or gloves. :P
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7709581148


    That post is overly dramatic. He calculates with 4 well rolled stats when actually 2 well rolled stats (in combination with the chosen high mainstat) are enough for most builds. He also states that quintfecta, or even quartfecta gloves are below 350 million on AH. That might be true in US for gloves, but it's certainly not true in Europe for amulets. Even high rolled mainstat+chc+chd amulets cost a few hundred million, and everything with 4 good stats is over 500 million. The real problem is that these amulets are very rare. As in: there is no supply. For the general player, they don't exist, only for the very few on the top.

    Craftable amulets will most certainly be a hit, but I'm not sure how will that affect prices. My prediction is that Brimstones will flop. People and sharks already stocked up insane amounts of it, after the patch they'll release all their stocks, but there won't be enough demand. Casuals will be limited by Demonic Essence drops and hardcores already stocked up, that's my take on it. On the other hand, gem prices may flourish, especially emerald and ruby because marquise crafts, but they are plagued with duping, and again, no one knows exactly how big the stock is.

    I'd say trading with commodities is a real gamble and not for the small fish. I, at least, do well enough with immediate gear flipping, I don't stock up anything.
  • #27
    Quote from m4st0d0n

    Quote from Shinna1989

    Good luck getting your "godlike" amulet or gloves. :P
    http://us.battle.net...opic/7709581148


    That post is overly dramatic. He calculates with 4 well rolled stats when actually 2 well rolled stats (in combination with the chosen high mainstat) are enough for most builds. He also states that quintfecta, or even quartfecta gloves are below 350 million on AH. That might be true in US for gloves, but it's certainly not true in Europe for amulets. Even high rolled mainstat+chc+chd amulets cost a few hundred million, and everything with 4 good stats is over 500 million.


    THIS.

    The post says that you need to invest on average 437 million to get a quinfecta amulet, that is, if you buy the materials off the AH. Sounds like a pretty good deal if you're on EU server where every freaking borderline decent item costs a fortune. High int roll is fixed, and high CC roll+decent IAS are perfectly possible within a few dozen crafts - and that's all I'd need for an upgrade. He also forgot to factor in minmax damage, LoH, vitality, armor, ... not too bad either. Sure, if you already have your BiS amulet be prepared to spend millions, but that's unlikely the case if you play EU. I got the feeling the EU servers haven't seen any decent quinfecta items being rolled - ever.
  • #28
    Quote from johnnyraro

    Quote from Legion1103

    Black weapons could be a valuable investment for later patches
    Why is that? Supply reasons


    Blizzard replied to the rumor of nerfing min max damage of black weapons in 1.0.7 by saying they wont nerf any current black legendary weapons that have been found (mistake learnt from ias nerf and loosing a lot of players), however they are considering in a later patch nerfing any new drops of black legendary's.

    So a godlike efury or skorn at the moment will have a pretty nice price tag if they decide to do this in a later patch, but then you could argue the amount of efury skorns found between now and then will make this no investment and blizzard could add other legendary's or buff others that could be better.
  • #29
    So guys... Would you or wouldnt you invest in the crafting material market specifically brimstones?? Do you guys predict an increase in the prices for brimstones???
  • #30
    Bump Bump Bump
  • #31
    It's a tough call! But it seems like it's going up.

    http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Brimstone price will go up&word2=Brimstone price will go down

    As a last resort, you may also ask the Oracle Cat.
  • #32
    Quote from Bagstone

    It's a tough call! But it seems like it's going up.

    http://googlefight.c...ce will go down

    As a last resort, you may also ask the Oracle Cat.
    Hmm pretty sure that cat is controlling the AH :P but thanks for the joke.. Loved it >> :)
  • #33
    Every time I see the word "economy" in this forum a little person inside my brain shouts: "kill them all"....
  • #34
    Quote from Indimix

    Every time I see the word "economy" in this forum a little person inside my brain shouts: "kill them all"....

    I know how you feel :lol:
  • #35
    Some people like that their games have a living and dynamic economy (sorry, said it again). That's mostly for MMO games (most of them RPGs) like EVE and WoW.

    Some would go as far as to say that D2 itself had a living economy (probably one of the first games to have that) in SoJ, runes and uniques (on early stages of the game, without the rampant duping).

    A lot of the fans wanted D3 to have an economy. But not a crappy and extremely unfriendly D2-style economy, where you could be scammed, where you had to go to forums to find an item, and then trade stuff without a way of comparing what you were trading. All these people got what they wanted, what they asked for when D3 was in development (the AH wasn't there from the beginning, you know?).

    Btw, I'm not saying I like D3 having an economy, or defending the AH/RMAH. I don't even have a personal preference on that matter. I honestly wouldn't care if D3 didn't have an economy, nor am I annoyed by the fact that it has.

    If the game is offline (or even online) and there's hardly any way to trade or to create an in-game economy, I really don't care. I played Titan Quest and Torchlight hundreds of hours without and economy and all was fine.

    But if the game has an economy, I might try making use of it - but I'll try to never let it become a serious matter (like my daily lawyer work) otherwise the game's main purpose (to have fun in a light environment) is lost.

    To me, that's the biggest mistake the majority of the playerbase made. Telling others that they suck because they don't know how to use the AH (and if they're stuck and can't get items, it's their own damn fault), and treating the game like a real life economy-simulator. That's not something Blizzard did, it's something the playerbase itself did.
  • #36
    In D2 you could stay 100% away from "the economy".
    In D3 you can't, since 'it' affects your overall drop rates.

    /argument
  • #37
    Quote from maka

    In D2 you could stay 100% away from "the economy".
    In D3 you can't, since 'it' affects your overall drop rates.

    /argument

    I'll quote mr. Kenobi here: "only a Sith deals in absolutes" (which is an absolute in itself, but you get the point).

    In D2, duping and character editors were abundant. Sometimes I understand what Jay Wilson meant about fighting people's memories. Try playing D2 again, no help from anything, and let me know how many hours it takes to get the runes for an Enigma (I'm pretty sure it's somewhere around 1k). That's how you supposedly "stay away from the economy". People remember D2 differently because it was a much easier game, and because they could have anything with dupes.

    Now really, I don't exactly disagree with you. I'm inclined to believe the game drops have been somewhat tuned having the AH in mind. But I also know that I have no proof of that (that blue statement is hardly "proof", programing/code-wise). I didn't really like not seeing a legendary until I was level 49, so before we continue let me say again: I do agree partly with your statement/feeling.

    That said I remember seeing quite a few threads about people who played without the AH. I'm pretty sure I saw a lot of people doing Inferno with gear they found. They claimed it was more challenging, the end-game was more lasting and it was perfectly viable.

    I actually leveled up one of my characters (can't recall if it was my WD or my Monk) with absolutely no help from the AH. Not a single item purchased there. Nightmare difficulty was mildly challenging. Hell was a blast (overcoming each elite and boss felt great), and finally reaching Inferno felt like what they promised -> a nearly impossible task that would take weeks-months. By the end of Act 2, I finally decided to use the AH again.

    People have been saying these so called AH-facts (which are mostly falacies) for so long, they actually starting believing them. I'm 100% sure a lot of the people who complain the game is only doable with the AH never even actually tried playing it without the AH. Looks like a love/hate relationship :(
  • #38
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Quote from maka

    In D2 you could stay 100% away from "the economy".
    In D3 you can't, since 'it' affects your overall drop rates.

    /argument

    I'll quote mr. Kenobi here: "only a Sith deals in absolutes" (which is an absolute in itself, but you get the point).

    In D2, duping and character editors were abundant. Sometimes I understand what Jay Wilson meant about fighting people's memories. Try playing D2 again, no help from anything, and let me know how many hours it takes to get the runes for an Enigma (I'm pretty sure it's somewhere around 1k). That's how you supposedly "stay away from the economy". People remember D2 differently because it was a much easier game, and because they could have anything with dupes.

    Now really, I don't exactly disagree with you. I'm inclined to believe the game drops have been somewhat tuned having the AH in mind. But I also know that I have no proof of that (that blue statement is hardly "proof", programing/code-wise). I didn't really like not seeing a legendary until I was level 49, so before we continue let me say again: I do agree partly with your statement/feeling.

    That said I remember seeing quite a few threads about people who played without the AH. I'm pretty sure I saw a lot of people doing Inferno with gear they found. They claimed it was more challenging, the end-game was more lasting and it was perfectly viable.

    I actually leveled up one of my characters (can't recall if it was my WD or my Monk) with absolutely no help from the AH. Not a single item purchased there. Nightmare difficulty was mildly challenging. Hell was a blast (overcoming each elite and boss felt great), and finally reaching Inferno felt like what they promised -> a nearly impossible task that would take weeks-months. By the end of Act 2, I finally decided to use the AH again.

    People have been saying these so called AH-facts (which are mostly falacies) for so long, they actually starting believing them. I'm 100% sure a lot of the people who complain the game is only doable with the AH never even actually tried playing it without the AH. Looks like a love/hate relationship :(


    Sorry to burst your bubble, but I played D2 99.9% of the time in SP or LAN, so 'dupes' really mean nothing to me.

    Also, I have never purchased from the AH, so the argument doesn't really apply to me.

    As for the original, v1.0, un-nerfed Inferno......meh. Farming Act 1 over and over and over and OVER got old fast (the monster density on some of those zones borders on insulting), and it was a pretty uninteresting gear-check. Yes, I know, loot-based games are mostly about gear-checks, but the way the itemisation was handled in D3 made this gear-check really frustrating. Since the leap in difficulty from A1 to A2 was so big, and farming in Hell was pointless, that meant that I was stuck for ages on A1 Inferno...and that was boring. I suppose I could've proceeded like most people at that time: death-zerging, exploiting NPC's (Tyrael), exploiting broken mechanics/skills, bugs, etc....but what's the point in that?

    All in all, I'm pretty convinced that it was much easier to avoid the whole 'economy' thing in D2 than it is in D3. Hell, until recently, I really knew very little about the economy in D2. That's how little an impact it had on my gameplay.
  • #39
    Quote from Zero(pS)
    In D2, duping and character editors were abundant. Sometimes I understand what Jay Wilson meant about fighting people's memories. Try playing D2 again, no help from anything, and let me know how many hours it takes to get the runes for an Enigma (I'm pretty sure it's somewhere around 1k). That's how you supposedly "stay away from the economy". People remember D2 differently because it was a much easier game, and because they could have anything with dupes.


    And I think that Jay Wilson, and whole Blizzard as a matter of fact, is in grave mistake if they think they know in full detail how people played Diablo 2, because they don't know a bit about people playing offline or a pirated version. That is the pitfall of data-driven game development. Data simply did not exist for the majority of players, as they were not playing connected to battle.net. Diablo 2 was played worldwide, it was played on lan, and it was played on unofficial bnets. All those Diablo 2 players simply did not exist for Blizzard, and that's okay, because they never payed for the game. But Blizzard failed to realize that all those people will want to play Diablo 3 too, and their experience of Diablo 2 differs greatly from those played on legit bnet.

    TL;DR: When you, or Jay Wilson, or anyone at Blizzard say you're fighting people's memories you are actually trying to force your reality on other people's very different realities.
  • #40
    Quote from maka

    Also, I have never purchased from the AH, so the argument doesn't really apply to me.

    You never purchased from the AH, yet you can't find your own upgrades? I fail to see the logic there. I found upgrades for my WD/Monk (whichever didn't use the AH) every 5-10 minutes. Even on Act 1 Inferno.

    As for the original, v1.0, un-nerfed Inferno......meh. Farming Act 1 over and over and over and OVER got old fast (the monster density on some of those zones borders on insulting), and it was a pretty uninteresting gear-check. Yes, I know, loot-based games are mostly about gear-checks, but the way the itemisation was handled in D3 made this gear-check really frustrating. Since the leap in difficulty from A1 to A2 was so big, and farming in Hell was pointless, that meant that I was stuck for ages on A1 Inferno...and that was boring. I suppose I could've proceeded like most people at that time: death-zerging, exploiting NPC's (Tyrael), exploiting broken mechanics/skills, bugs, etc....but what's the point in that?

    I leveled my alternate before they tuned the game (ilvl drops, overall dmg and health, etc.) and managed to get past Inferno Act 1 in about week. Around 15-20 hours playtime. If you were farming it over and over and over, you probably didn't know how to recognize the necessary stats to progress. Back in the day, very few people stacked all resists and used crit chance/crit dmg. It wasn't much easier even with the AH back then, before all the changes, since stuf with +30 all-resist could cost 1-2 million.

    All in all, I'm pretty convinced that it was much easier to avoid the whole 'economy' thing in D2 than it is in D3. Hell, until recently, I really knew very little about the economy in D2. That's how little an impact it had on my gameplay.

    It never had any impact in mine either. Even when I played online, I was stuck with old habits. Gearing up a Hammerdin, a Sorc and a Bone-Necro. Almost never trading (didn't even know d2jsp), almost never seeing high-end stuff. When ubers came, I realized how weak I was compared to what they expected of me. They were simply impossible without the proper stats (and without the proper builds).

    @Mastodon I was mostly a SP/Lan player. Check my post history if you want, but I've been saying since years before the beta that online-only was bad for me, because it would kill the lan parties I loved so much. I was never an advocate of ladder or an online economy. My point still stands, and applies both to offline and online. People remember a D2 that simply didn't exist.

    People talk so much about "finding their own items". Oh, please. The only reason people could "find" their own items in D2 is because with any crap you could stomp through content. Even Hell if you had the right skill build. Give me 30 hours and I can roll through everything in D2 with self-found content, as long as I assign the right stats and skill points. Items were a joke and barely mattered before the end-game. There were no useable/good rares, except during early vanilla. You couldn't find a good rare (like you can in D3) because they simply couldn't roll good affixes. It was all smoke and mirrors. People thought they were finding good items when in fact it was mostly crap. Finding uniques took hundreds of runs. That's probably 50+ hours searching for one item. Except instead of fighting different elites, you were killing the same enemy over and over again (and still had a chance of not finding it).

    And if you never played online, I'm not even gonna talk about runewords (and ubers), since you probably don't even understand that those were the first items that actually mattered (and being remotely able to help at clearing ubers - depending on your class).

    I'm not like most players, who actually think they're the center of the world. I'm not trying to force my reality over anyone (and I'm sure the D3 devs didn't as well). But I see daily a lot of people who are (PvP, competitive PvE, WoW-like features, more D2-like features) If I were, I'd be 110% against online only, ladders and the AH - because that was against my reality when I played D2.

    I'm just positively against people saying they remember a game when it's so ridiculously obvious (to those who actually played) they barely played it. Most jump on the "diablofan" bandwagon and claim to have played a ton of it, but in reality only played a couple hours every 6 months with a few friends, and probably never played past Normal/Nightmare. And these guys claim to know more about the game than the guys who studied the genre for 10 years to create D3.

    That said, if you check character editors (offline ones) download numbers, some had over 50 million downloads back in the day. So yeah, I'm sure nobody hacked/duped items in single player.

    I'm still waiting for those fresh and correct memories. For people who played D2 for so long, and in such a legit manner, how long does it take to find a good rare (mostly in vanilla)? How long does it take to find the unique you want? For those who played online, how long did it take to see one Zod? 1k+ hours good enough for you? I've played D2 online nearly 800 hours (and offline probably 3-4 times that much), and I've never seen one drop myself.
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