I keep hearing all this 'blame Jay Wilson' stuff but..

  • #1
    I keep hearing all this 'blame Jay Wilson' stuff. Sure, he's a front figure for D3 but I keep asking myself what's really going on. We know that Blizzard has another leadership now than what they had a few years ago. I'm wondering if what's going on is that JW & Co have been told that they need to get the product out sooner rather than later even though they're not keen on that idea.

    I mean just think about it. What if there was an executive decision that D3 needed to be released no matter what, for obscure internal (likely financial) reasons. Even if you disagree, what can you do? You can't just go public voicing your discontent with it if you're on the dev team. And it might just happen that you do love your job so much that quitting because of it isn't an option.

    I'm just saying, if this is really what's going on, then it all of a sudden becomes very silly to blame the wrong people for it. I too feel that D3 has a long way to go although I mostly enjoy it. It certainly isn't a finished product yet but I think we'll see that it'll get better and better.

    You can flame me all you want for this topic but I thought it'd be a good thing to bring up. And regarding this PvP blog and PvP being postponed - well, this might just be exactly what should've happened in the first place. Even those mentioned executives can't deny the uproar that followed in the wake of that early release and they probably realize that if there was ever a time to listen to the devs it'd be now. This game should probably have been released some time next year in the first place. Which sort of brings some things back to where they belong.

    Please, if you would like to reply to this Wall of Text™, be constructive, this isn't battle.net forums.
    - I know that my Redeemer liveth, and as the last man He shall stand forth upon the earth -
    - - -
  • #2
    You must be one of a small minority that still did not realize that Jay "and then we doubled it" Wilson is the man, i mean the only MAN, behind Diablo 3. He is secretly policing Battle@net forums as undercover CM, he is designing the game's classes, skills, gameplay, environments and story, he is programming the code and pretty much everything there is. Hell, he even think out those names in the credits to make it believable once you finished D3 on any given difficulty.

    You can call him scapegoat or a villain, it all depends on the way you perceive Diablo 3 as a game. It is obvious he has no such menacing impact on the game as people credit him to have but it is much easier to blame that one person for all the wrongs (in an unbiased view of a D3 player obviously!) done to this game.
  • #3
    This is what Greg Street does: "Future planning, UI, and then just pure people management take the biggest portion."
    Yet he is the be all end all developer for WoW. Because he answers.

    I also fully agree with the sarcasm above this comment.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #4
    Lovely sarcasm there. Yeah, JW and GC are the public faces and one can only assume they wouldn't care to stay in this job for long if they didn't know how to handle it. It's apparent though that a lot of people just don't realize that there's more going on than just 1 or 2 persons dictating the whole thing. Always nice to have a scapegoat though.
    - I know that my Redeemer liveth, and as the last man He shall stand forth upon the earth -
    - - -
  • #5
    GC and Jay Wilson are not the same at all.

    Jay Wilson is in charge of D3 fully. He has a team, they work for him, he is not "the voice" of D3, he is the guy calling the shots. I was always taught, a leader is responsible for everything his team does or fails to do. If the game is great, he will surely take credit, he also needs to take responsibility when the team fails. Which a lot of people think they did.

    GC is just one of many many developers for WoW, you are right he became the face of WOW many years ago, but he is not "in charge" of WOW.
  • #6
    Quote from rebjorn

    Lovely sarcasm there. Yeah, JW and GC are the public faces and one can only assume they wouldn't care to stay in this job for long if they didn't know how to handle it. It's apparent though that a lot of people just don't realize that there's more going on than just 1 or 2 persons dictating the whole thing. Always nice to have a scapegoat though.


    D3 was a totally different game pre-launch then what we acutally ended up getting. Jay Wilson hyped up so many great features that all got removed..Including the pvp arenas. Diablo 3 ended up being 1/4 of what they said it would be.

    All the hate, anger and utter disapointment directed at Jay Wilson is well deserved.
  • #7
    If Jay Wilson is unhappy with the current state and direction of D3, he can voice his discontent and/or resign.
    As team leader, he is the first to receive accolade, but also the first to receive criticism; that's how it has to be.
    If he is not satisfied with the current state and direction of the game, and feels that he doesn't have the power/authority to change that, he has no choice but to resign.
    If he is happy with the state and direction of the game, then the criticism is well deserved.
  • #8
    For some reason, people love to get personal when they're flaming Blizzard, more so in my experience than for any other game dev.

    Look at WoW, for instance: for years, Jeff "Tigole" Kaplan was the devil, he was insulted and abused just as Jay Wilson is now. Of course, now that he no longer works on WoW, people hark back to his reign as a golden age, when WoW was wonderful - now they heap their abuse on Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street, and pretend not to remember all of the insults they threw at Kaplan.
  • #9
    Quote from st0rmie

    For some reason, people love to get personal when they're flaming Blizzard, more so in my experience than for any other game dev.


    That's because Blizzard talks to the community.

    And for the "he's in charge, he's responsible" crowd: no he's not. He's the lead "designer". He does come up with a lot of the ideas but he has a boss that's not just "part of the executives". His name is Rob Pardo and he is the executive producer of Diablo 3. The producer is exactly the team leader - he gives responsibilities to the developers, manages the teams, reports in and out with the other executives and is in charge of saying "yes, this can happen", "no this cannot" and "this is your timeline, work with it". The guy offering most of the game ideas is Jay Wilson indeed (with large parts of ideas from the other designers as well), but he doesn't just come up with them and say "I figured this would be best - do it".

    Surprisingly Rob Pardo was also a game designer on D2 and is also a designer (apart from producer) on D3. He's been with Blizz for 15 years. He and Kaplan, that st0rmie mentioned in the previous comment, were top players in Everquest and were picked up by Blizzard to then become top developers. And they've been ever since, one overlooking Diablo 3 while the other Titan.

    Yes, I'm sure Jay's decision making is not affected by Pardo's opinion on the different subjects. Not at the least. Yep.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #10
    Quote from overneathe
    That's because Blizzard talks to the community.


    Wrong...most of the talking comes from the Moderators, Guides and MVPs.
    The occasionally Blog the DEVs post i wouldnt count as talking.

    Ever saw a Blizzcon live... the 10 Minute Q&A Sessions...people ask questions...DEVs answer ?
    Thats actually talking.

    What happen to "Working alongside gamers" ?

    I can tell you... over the last years it turned into "Working alongside shareholders".

    Its all about Profit...the Players and the Fun in Games is only Ballast.

    Jay Wilson & Bobby Kotick could really become great friends...if they arent already.
  • #11
    Did you read at least a bit more from my comment? No? Ok.

    And the part with "moderators are talking". Community Managers work very closely with the devs and forward all relevant information back and forth. Their full time job is being the link between the devs and the community. Otherwise the devs' full time job would be to just be on the forums all day and answering questions. Really, I don't see exactly how you don't understand these basic concepts. Do you want the devs to work on things or do you want them to chat with you?

    They've also done Reddit AMAs btw. All Blizzard teams have. I'm sure that when they aren't really busy with, you know, developing and stuff, they'd be happy to do some more.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #12
    Quote from overneathe

    Do you want the devs to work on things or do you want them to chat with you?


    Labor is obviously free in Xenocow's world. They should obviously just hire like 100000 more people to reply to shit on the forums and another 100 to oversee them. And they should pay them nothing so that it doesn't impact their prospectus and so that people keep investing in their company.

    It's like people are completely oblivious as to how a financially-responsible business entity needs to run in order to remain an attractive investment for investors. D3 wasn't possible because some rich dude sent Blizzard a barge full of $100 bills stacked 50 feet high, even though some people talk like that's how Blizzard raises capital.
    p438 :: 90.5k EK :: 2.50m TK
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #13
    Quote from shaggy

    Labor is obviously free in Xenocow's world. They should obviously just hire like 100000 more people to reply to shit on the forums and another 100 to oversee them. And they should pay them nothing so that it doesn't impact their prospectus and so that people keep investing in their company.


    But also remove the RMAH because it's obviously just trying to milk the very last cent from users just for pure profits.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #14
    Believe what you want.

    I rather stick with Red5, and Grinding Gear Games...
    they do actually talk with the Community.

    Blizzard did too btw... until the Activision Merge 2009.
    The whole Company went to shit after that, and thats not only my opinion.

    /edit/ yupp, he has very valid points...
    specially the ones i mentioned earlier, about the "working alongside gamers" part around 4:30.

  • #15
    Well, a few things. Yes, the window for D3 was tight. It needed to be a few months before the panda release so it wouldn't take people away from the main subscription based cash cow (why do you think the 1 yr + D3 came out? Subscription is all about retention!). That is a strategic decision JW can't do a lot about. Saying it needed to be postponed till H2 2013 (after HotS) would not go well with the AB shareholders and thus with JW himself. So, in a way he probably can't do a lot about the release time.

    However, by the looks of it during the game development, it appears from outside that there was a lot of indecisiveness where the game needed to go even in late stages of the development, with features being cut everywhere and a sub par item system. That is something that directly plays into JW responsibility. It is his task to get a Blizzard quality game out and in my opinion, D3 isn't one. Most Blizzard games I played were sparkling diamonds, D3 is an engineered diamond which may look right from a first glance but just lacks the character of the real thing.
  • #16
    Quote from rebjorn
    I mean just think about it. What if there was an executive decision that D3 needed to be released no matter what, for obscure internal (likely financial) reasons.


    There is nothing secret about it. Activision as publisher wants a) their investment back YESTERDAY, MAGGOTS and b ) wants a 23492387239847329847% return on it. Problem is, big publishers don't think (or realize, or even care) that if the product isn't ready and isn't as good as it could be say... three months from now, it'll flop, sell less, and they won't make as much money. Everybody sees WoW and goes "well fuck if we can't make that much money too" without stopping to think that herp derp an unfinished product is garbage.
  • #17
    People shoud maybe start reading what's already been said in the topic. Also Blizzard have always published their games themselves. Activision has zero to do with anything.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #18
    Quote from baron01

    You must be one of a small minority that still did not realize that Jay "and then we doubled it" Wilson is the man, i mean the only MAN, behind Diablo 3. He is secretly policing Battle@net forums as undercover CM, he is designing the game's classes, skills, gameplay, environments and story, he is programming the code and pretty much everything there is. Hell, he even think out those names in the credits to make it believable once you finished D3 on any given difficulty.

    You can call him scapegoat or a villain, it all depends on the way you perceive Diablo 3 as a game. It is obvious he has no such menacing impact on the game as people credit him to have but it is much easier to blame that one person for all the wrongs (in an unbiased view of a D3 player obviously!) done to this game.


    Jay Wilson is completely the one to blame EXACTLY because of that. Wyatt Cheng is THE ONLY MAN behind most of Diablo content. How can a producer spend to much money in graphic and cinematics team and put ONE GUY to make the work of a TEAM, because he is not putting the money on what's important: GAME MECHANICS.

    Wyatt Cheng is not incompetent, he is not a noob. In fact he is one of the best at the market. But no matter his talent, put a single man to make the work of many and he will do shit.

    Jay Wilson management destroyed the game, and yes, he is the ONE to blame. He is the one that made great professionals produce crap.
  • #19
    Quote from overneathe

    Also Blizzard have always published their games themselves. Activision has zero to do with anything.


    Of course there is a mutual influence.
    How can you be so naive ?

    Blizzard can perhaps act independently, but all the CEOs share the same Interests.
    And thats making money. Lots of it.
  • #20
    Blame Robert Kotick, the mans sure knows how to sodomize the good name of a company. Jay WIlson is the face of the Diablo team but he is a simple puppet, a Darth Vader to Kotick's Emperor Palpatine. Here's a tasteful morsel for your reading displeasure

    http://www.teamliqui...topic_id=128252
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes