Economy - State of Diablo 3 Ep 6

  • #1
    Hey everyone -

    I wanted to share the latest episode of "The State of Diablo 3" with you all:

    Economy Discussion

    Join Ken and myself, Sibcoe, as we discuss the D3 economy. Let us know your thoughts in the comments and here on the forum.

    Thanks for watching.

    Cheers 0/

    RTG Sibcoe
    ------------------
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  • #2
    Thanks Sibcoe, always a good cast :)
    Of all things important in Online Gaming, there is one thing no game developer can "fix" - it's community.
  • #3
    Quote from Ferret

    Thanks Sibcoe, always a good cast :)

    Thanks Ferret - glad you're enjoying them. Cheers 0/
  • #4
    I think you missed a couple of fundamental points overall to the whole fact of item hunting it self and also a minor detail to the PvP.

    They already stated there will be a system where you will be matched up against people who have about the equal gear to yours - As to make it balanced. Beyond this - It is not solid proof to discuss on, to simply flat out deny the statement of there being no PvP gear.

    Beyond this, you keep discussing the item hunt as if it would matter. You're all talking about consequence, action etc. - Let's go back to the basics here, you farm items. You literally hunt items. That's what the whole point is of the "uphill battle" - If you are oblivious to the whole concept of the gear treadmill, the very concept behind getting items is the sense of reward from the item. The feeling of getting that item. There literally IS no point to getting the item.

    In D3, perhaps that would be monster power lvl - which offers you a greater challenge - but also a greater chance for them bigger items. And it's following the same principal still - You spending your effort, your cash etc. - to get the dopamine rush from getting a item, a reward.

    Assuming that anything in a artificial system would EVER have a constructive sense of meaning (i.e you ACHIEVE something through gear - Which you don't mind you, as in WoW you get the well-fare system anyway that is very similar to D3 currently - Which does NOT contribute you to being exclusive just due to the gear (i.e doing certain raids or w/e, the people who are dedicated enough or have the means to do it get there ANYWAY) , and this is also why the well-fare system is there, because those who don't have that dedication get their cake as well - as in you can LITERALLY jump down a hole on a fight, get the loot - and "see" the fight none the less because you "participated" in the earlier events etc.)

    But the major difference between D3 and WoW, is literally that D3 does not refresh content, it literally is not a MMO. It is just a dopamine mine for you to eternally grind items, just to max out characters, for no real purpose - nor reason. And if you got burnt out on that cause you found the loops, don't go screaming "it's broken" - You literally burnt your self out, you literally brought this upon your self, knowingly - And the community needs to become more aware of all these things.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyPoochification - Let's Play of Eastern Sun/Other stuff
  • #5
    Quote from Doorsfan

    I think you missed a couple of fundamental points overall to the whole fact of item hunting it self and also a minor detail to the PvP.

    They already stated there will be a system where you will be matched up against people who have about the equal gear to yours - As to make it balanced. Beyond this - It is not solid proof to discuss on, to simply flat out deny the statement of there being no PvP gear.

    Beyond this, you keep discussing the item hunt as if it would matter. You're all talking about consequence, action etc. - Let's go back to the basics here, you farm items. You literally hunt items. That's what the whole point is of the "uphill battle" - If you are oblivious to the whole concept of the gear treadmill, the very concept behind getting items is the sense of reward from the item. The feeling of getting that item. There literally IS no point to getting the item.

    In D3, perhaps that would be monster power lvl - which offers you a greater challenge - but also a greater chance for them bigger items. And it's following the same principal still - You spending your effort, your cash etc. - to get the dopamine rush from getting a item, a reward.

    Assuming that anything in a artificial system would EVER have a constructive sense of meaning (i.e you ACHIEVE something through gear - Which you don't mind you, as in WoW you get the well-fare system anyway that is very similar to D3 currently - Which does NOT contribute you to being exclusive just due to the gear (i.e doing certain raids or w/e, the people who are dedicated enough or have the means to do it get there ANYWAY) , and this is also why the well-fare system is there, because those who don't have that dedication get their cake as well - as in you can LITERALLY jump down a hole on a fight, get the loot - and "see" the fight none the less because you "participated" in the earlier events etc.)

    But the major difference between D3 and WoW, is literally that D3 does not refresh content, it literally is not a MMO. It is just a dopamine mine for you to eternally grind items, just to max out characters, for no real purpose - nor reason. And if you got burnt out on that cause you found the loops, don't go screaming "it's broken" - You literally burnt your self out, you literally brought this upon your self, knowingly - And the community needs to become more aware of all these things.

    Wow awesome man. I can't say I agree 100%, but I can say I love your post :) I hope you sub to the channel and share many more awesome posts . Cheers 0/
  • #6
    Quote from Doorsfan

    I think you missed a couple of fundamental points overall to the whole fact of item hunting it self and also a minor detail to the PvP.

    They already stated there will be a system where you will be matched up against people who have about the equal gear to yours - As to make it balanced. Beyond this - It is not solid proof to discuss on, to simply flat out deny the statement of there being no PvP gear.

    Beyond this, you keep discussing the item hunt as if it would matter. You're all talking about consequence, action etc. - Let's go back to the basics here, you farm items. You literally hunt items. That's what the whole point is of the "uphill battle" - If you are oblivious to the whole concept of the gear treadmill, the very concept behind getting items is the sense of reward from the item. The feeling of getting that item. There literally IS no point to getting the item.

    In D3, perhaps that would be monster power lvl - which offers you a greater challenge - but also a greater chance for them bigger items. And it's following the same principal still - You spending your effort, your cash etc. - to get the dopamine rush from getting a item, a reward.

    Assuming that anything in a artificial system would EVER have a constructive sense of meaning (i.e you ACHIEVE something through gear - Which you don't mind you, as in WoW you get the well-fare system anyway that is very similar to D3 currently - Which does NOT contribute you to being exclusive just due to the gear (i.e doing certain raids or w/e, the people who are dedicated enough or have the means to do it get there ANYWAY) , and this is also why the well-fare system is there, because those who don't have that dedication get their cake as well - as in you can LITERALLY jump down a hole on a fight, get the loot - and "see" the fight none the less because you "participated" in the earlier events etc.)

    But the major difference between D3 and WoW, is literally that D3 does not refresh content, it literally is not a MMO. It is just a dopamine mine for you to eternally grind items, just to max out characters, for no real purpose - nor reason. And if you got burnt out on that cause you found the loops, don't go screaming "it's broken" - You literally burnt your self out, you literally brought this upon your self, knowingly - And the community needs to become more aware of all these things.

    Awesome.

    I don't watch the videos - I prefer written text over videos and this one is just too long with 78 minutes, I don't have that much time, and in over one hour of discussion you can fit in so much back and forth discussion on a (text-based) forum.

    But your text absolutely hits the nail on the head. Especially the last paragraph... I'd like to print this in font size 128 and throw at people who forget what kind of game they're playing, often discussing about D3 as if it was a different kind of genre. +1.
  • #7
    Quote from Doorsfan

    I think you missed a couple of fundamental points overall to the whole fact of item hunting it self and also a minor detail to the PvP.

    They already stated there will be a system where you will be matched up against people who have about the equal gear to yours - As to make it balanced. Beyond this - It is not solid proof to discuss on, to simply flat out deny the statement of there being no PvP gear.

    Beyond this, you keep discussing the item hunt as if it would matter. You're all talking about consequence, action etc. - Let's go back to the basics here, you farm items. You literally hunt items. That's what the whole point is of the "uphill battle" - If you are oblivious to the whole concept of the gear treadmill, the very concept behind getting items is the sense of reward from the item. The feeling of getting that item. There literally IS no point to getting the item.

    In D3, perhaps that would be monster power lvl - which offers you a greater challenge - but also a greater chance for them bigger items. And it's following the same principal still - You spending your effort, your cash etc. - to get the dopamine rush from getting a item, a reward.

    Assuming that anything in a artificial system would EVER have a constructive sense of meaning (i.e you ACHIEVE something through gear - Which you don't mind you, as in WoW you get the well-fare system anyway that is very similar to D3 currently - Which does NOT contribute you to being exclusive just due to the gear (i.e doing certain raids or w/e, the people who are dedicated enough or have the means to do it get there ANYWAY) , and this is also why the well-fare system is there, because those who don't have that dedication get their cake as well - as in you can LITERALLY jump down a hole on a fight, get the loot - and "see" the fight none the less because you "participated" in the earlier events etc.)

    But the major difference between D3 and WoW, is literally that D3 does not refresh content, it literally is not a MMO. It is just a dopamine mine for you to eternally grind items, just to max out characters, for no real purpose - nor reason. And if you got burnt out on that cause you found the loops, don't go screaming "it's broken" - You literally burnt your self out, you literally brought this upon your self, knowingly - And the community needs to become more aware of all these things.

    I have to disagree with a lot of what is written here. While the "point" of Diablo 3 - as envisioned by the design team - was to grind items, that doesn't mean this should have been the only point to playing the game. In D2, there was certainly more to do beyond the item hunt. And contrary to popular belief, 99.99% of the items worth getting in d2 were relatively easy to get compared to d3 - even if completely self-found. There was definitely a point where one could say, "I'm finished with my character". In D3, the point of near perfection is so improbable, I don't think anyone will ever achieve it.

    While there might be a nice feeling to be had in obtaining an item, the point of getting it is entirely lost in D3. Some items in D2 let you do things you could not previously do. If you had no MF gear, you were thrilled to get a tal's set or a shako because it would help you MF. If you found a Jah and Ber, it would let you teleport with characters that otherwise couldn't. If you made your first grief, you could finally pvp with a melee character. If you crafted a nice 20% fcr amulet, you could finally make a 200% fcr sorc. And on and on. D3 has none of this. It is just bigger stats on the same crap items, and even if you get the best stats on your gear, there's nothing to do with it other than get more uninteresting items with even bigger stats.

    In addition to extra stuff to do in D2, it also was focused more on competitive play using the ladder system, which is another feature D3 lacks.

    There are several differences between WoW and Diablo 3 beyond what you state. In WoW, better gear will allow you to experience new content and attempt new encounters. In Diablo 3, it will only let you do the same content faster, or maybe try the same content at a higher difficulty setting and maybe do it in the same time as it took you with your older equipment. It's still the same content though, with the same boring drops - just more of them, and likely not to be anything you'll need or want anyway. The experience of the journey in WoW is at least interesting. You get the gear and learn the mechanics to beat the bosses, but in D3, you beat the bosses and then get the gear... to do nothing. D3's novelty wears off very rapidly, and there's nothing at the end of the tunnel to uncover.

    As for people getting burnt out - this can happen to anyone doing anything. It can especially happen to people playing D3 due to the monotony of playing the game. Good games mask the fact that they are getting you to do repetitive things, but in Diablo 3, it is very much front and center to the whole farming experience. The fact that there's zero point to the whole farming experience makes it even worse, and I don't think you can blame people for that since people do repetitive things in all games. Diablo 3 just doesn't reward you for doing it, nor does it give you a reason if/when you succeed. Other better games tend to do that part much better.
  • #8
    I think the main issue is the lack of a real itme sink.

    If they had some reason to destroy, or bind items at all qualities (from 20k low level items, all the way up to billion gold items) the economy would be much better off, and the item hunt would feel much, much better.

    The bottom line is, the market is completely flooded with gear, and the more items enter the market and none ever leave (except those that are on a character, which isnt growing) the cheaper and cheaper items get. Which in turn makes drops in the game feel less and less valuable.

    Just look at the cost of trifecta gloves over the last 8 months.....

    The problem will only get worse until they find a way to remove items from the economy.
  • #9
    Quote from Litheum

    I think the main issue is the lack of a real itme sink.

    If they had some reason to destroy, or bind items at all qualities (from 20k low level items, all the way up to billion gold items) the economy would be much better off, and the item hunt would feel much, much better.

    The bottom line is, the market is completely flooded with gear, and the more items enter the market and none ever leave (except those that are on a character, which isnt growing) the cheaper and cheaper items get. Which in turn makes drops in the game feel less and less valuable.

    Just look at the cost of trifecta gloves over the last 8 months.....

    The problem will only get worse until they find a way to remove items from the economy.

    You're absolutely right. I hope our show illustrated this point very clearly, because it's probably the most important take-away.
  • #10
    Your mother's recipe for pasta sauce is going to be slammed on the internet by me because, even though it's not my recipe, nor did I create it or have the right to call it mine, I somehow feel entitled because I bought some and now I should have a say in how it's made.
  • #11
    Quote from Boss_Hogg

    Your mother's recipe for pasta sauce is going to be slammed on the internet by me because, even though it's not my recipe, nor did I create it or have the right to call it mine, I somehow feel entitled because I bought some and now I should have a say in how it's made.

    And generally, if momma wants to sell more pasta sauce in the future, she should listen :) Cheers 0/
  • #12
    Quote from Boss_Hogg

    Your mother's recipe for pasta sauce is going to be slammed on the internet by me because, even though it's not my recipe, nor did I create it or have the right to call it mine, I somehow feel entitled because I bought some and now I should have a say in how it's made.

    Yah, this is the worst comparison ever.

    This is a game, with continuing development, by a company well-known for changing its "recipe" based on the customer.
    It's not your Mom's homemade sauce recipe.....how silly.
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