Why Nerf/Fix Reflect Damage?

  • #1
    Witch Doctor is the most vulnerable class vs Reflect Damage affix yet I find it hard to die vs reflect and I see no reason for this affix to be nerfed or fixed.

    When blizzard nerfs monster damage/HP etc I see no challenge & the game gets more boring for players like me.

    My suggestion is if you are going to nerf something, at the same time give us MP15-20 so I feel the challenge.

    Here is a link to my short clip all MP10 vs reflect. First half is my solo fights, and the second half is with party. The Clip may also give you some idea on how effective MP10 farming with party may be.

  • #2
    How is Witch Doctor especially vulnerable to RD? With spirit walk, you basically become immune to RD for 3 seconds. If it takes you much longer than 3 seconds to kill elites then you're playing the wrong MPlvl.

    It needs to be nerfed/fixed because we don't want to hurt ourselves. We want the monsters to hurt us. Arcane lasers and molten pools killing me is fine. RD killing me is just stupid.
  • #3
    in an action game, 100% un avoidable damage is simply retarded. also punishing charactors for being stronger is also . . . retarded. when you combine those two consepts, and then say its fine. it makes me wonder if you even like playing video games or just cutting yourself...

    it also makes me wonder if blizzard knows the first thing about what actually makes games fun. did they get their previous titles right on accedent?

    what is the point in getting better at a game when it punishes you for doing so. Reflect damage makes players exploit builds instead of getting better at the game. RD in every game ive ever seen it in, has been a complete turn off regardless if it actually affected my charactor or not.
  • #4
    I don't know much about WD, but the way you recover HP after losing it all the time, is not what happens with my monk
    I have serenity for 4 seconds, and then the potion, and then the 9k heal from the healing skill.
    that's it, my sweeping wind and cyclones will attack everything in sight without me being able to attack only some of them, and if I do that I die instantly.
    The only way for me not to die to the bugged RD packs is to kite until either serenity, the potion, or the 9k heal come back.
    Hopefully in the time serenity is up I can dmg them enough to get a red ball thing too.
    (bugged) RD packs take me about 10 times longer than non RD packs because I have to kite until my serenity is ready again.

    Anyways, I'm usually not complaining about RD being broken, but what you did there to recover HP everytime you lost it? I can't do that
  • #5
    The blizzard that made Diablo 3 is not the same Blizzard that made Diablo 1 and 2, don't forget.

    The current blizzard is also blinded by the greed that WOW has induced. The Diablo 1 & 2 devs could only make money by making the best game possible so that it would sell well in stores. Diablo 3 devs are only concerned with exploiting the RMAH to the highest degree in order to make money.

    Removing the RMAH would have probably gone a long way towards improving Diablo 3, but it's not the only problem. The real problem is Diablo 3 tried to cater too much towards children, so they removed a lot of the darkness and horror. Imo, the darkness/horror aspect is what made Diablo what it was, and the Diablo 3 devs missed that completely.
  • #6
    @Crateme Spirit Walk is actually 2 seconds and you can play smart to get less dmg from reflects. I didn't always had this much defenses yet I could survive reflects. The point is that these clips are MP10, and it shows reflect packs are ok. Most people are whining about MP7-8 reflects.

    @Oxidys I don't know what char you play, but I don't think that you can come even close to my damage output. Also that is another point of this clip, "surviving reflect with high dps" lol maybe I should have made this the title. So from your point of view we shouldn't get any defensive items and play as mages&demon hunters pre 1.02 patch.

    @Stromchin I got 2 immunities, one from passive and the other is spirit walk. So I use them in turns when my HP is low and heal fast with millions of crits. Also I gather other mobs around and get HP from them it makes things even easier. Btw My brother had a monk (he sold his equipment now was in top 100 DPS) he had a good skorn and his HP wasn't even moving vs reflect mobs in MP10.
  • #7
    Good, a guy who plays the game 24/7 and wants to brag about his character. And to top it off he thinks Blizzard should change the game just to cater to him.
  • #8
    Quote from Doomherald

    Good, a guy who plays the game 24/7 and wants to brag about his character. And to top it off he thinks Blizzard should change the game just to cater to him.

    lol, If I played the game 24/7 I would have an insane char. I have a full time work and I can only play max 2-3 hours a day. I buy the items which are right for my char, If I had also copied %90 of the Witch Doctor builds and geared up to it I couldn't make these videos.
  • #9
    Nice show-off.
    You must be good in either trading, spending money on rmah or just play a lot. Because if you don't know why they want to fix Reflect Damage you obviously are a very narrow minded person.
    I can think for you, tho:

    1. It's probably no surprise that you don't have problems with your Gear and Build. But just because YOU can do it doesn't mean anyone can. Even with your equipment a Witch Doctor HAS TO chose a few skills to be able to kill those comfortably.
    Conclusion: Reflect Damage limits build variety. There are must have skills for any class to compete.

    2. As I said above, your gear is extraordinary. It's balanced with high offense and defense. I don't know how you achieved that and I don't want to impute something to you... But usually there's a point where you dont have the Gold to buy perfect and balanced gear for both defense and offense. Some people pick offense first, others defense. Those who pick offense first will have huge problems with reflect damage. One could say it's their own fault for playing glass-cannon or w.e. - but basically Reflect Damage packs are the only piece in the game where this wouldn't work.
    Conclusion: Reflect Damage doesn't only limit build variety but also gear variety.

    3. Some classes have clear advantages on dealing with them. A Barbarian has life-steal on belts and can just go derp-mode. GG.
    In Addition dual-wield provides more life-steal, too. Witch Doctors and Wizards can't just simply glass-cannon which I think is sad. The mage even has a passive called "Glasscannon" but it's just cosmetic obviously :D
    Conclusion: Reflect Damage is imbalanced at the moment. Even if there are ways for any class to do it.. just leads to point 1 again.

    There are a few more reasons but I think you get the idea!
    Anyway: nice show-off and gz to that gear.
  • #10
    I'm more of a casual player, I don't play that much, I didn't stop sleeping or eating at start and I won't stop now. I just play when I feel like it and I think it's normal. I've played more than 300 hours with my wizard and maybe 20 hours with my barbarian. I can't even taste MP10 but I know that it only gets harder and harder. I don't use the RMAH and as I don't play insanely I don't get that much gold and epic items every day...and after reading your post I was intrigued...why do you think everyone is like you and your WD? Do you think everyone can farm MP10? Do you think everyone played as much as you? That people have items to be where you are? That people are lucky enough to get those items? Or that they spend real money (not saying you do)? Or that they play the AH (not saying you do either)? My wizard has 142K DPS buffed and I think it's going well for the time I've spent and the fact that I don't use the RMAH and I don't play the GAH. I can farm MP3 just fine, how lame right? Well...to resist higher MPs with higher reflect damage, I need life on it or life steal and to have that I have to pay 150M for an echoing fury or an amulet...for some people it might be easy to get that money, but it isn't for me, takes too long and I won't pay to win so I must keep playing and wait for the moment when I'll have that gold. And in case you don't know, normal reflect damage isn't that bad, the worst thing is the bugged pack minions that have so much reflect damage (so much more than the main monster) that I die when they still have half HP bar :/ It's kinda expensive to have nice DPS and enough life steal in a wizard. In a barbarian it's much easier since I've played around 20 hours with mine, spent 1.5M in gear and it has much more LS, LOH than my wiz and can farm MP2 just fine. I could have a 500K DPS wizard and with no LF or LOH I would just die in MP5 with that reflect damage.
  • #11
    Sure, you can handle reflect, if you have either the right gear, the right build or a good tactic, or all of these. I am playing as a monk, who has multiple ways to handle reflect packs (serenity, SSS, multiple heals, high LoH coefficients, DW lifesteal, innate class damage reduction, easier to reach good resistances and armor than a WD), and I still think, reflect damage is imbalanced in its current state.

    For Witchdoctors, this is probably more significant, but still, if I run on a reasonable monster power for my char, I can tear through content with ease, I don't have to worry about enemy affixes too much. Sure, standing in arcane beams does hurt etc, but those are easily avoidable. I can kill everything just fine, with only 2.5% lifesteal from my main weapon and globes.

    However, if a reflect pack crosses my path, that changes drastically. Either, I have to use Serenity and hope to kill them in one duration or back off to wait for the cooldown, or I need way more life steal or LoH for this engagement only (I usually switch to a 900+ LoH amulet). Also, the unavoidable nature of this affix forces me to choose either of these, I cannot just try to improve my playstyle and avoid the danger, like I can with arcane beams and similar stuff. Reflect damage is the only affix, I would need more than my current 2.5% lifesteal for, and a lot more for that matter.

    Now, I don't necessarily think, reflect damage should be nerfed to oblivion. Many people use the argument, RD would be one of the last remaining challenges in the game. I disagree with this argument, because RD is not really a challenge, its more of an unavoidable nuisance, which most of the time forces you in certain gear or build choices you'd rather not take.
    However, if you would benefit of these choices for other affixes as well, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. So I say, bring RD to the level of the other affixes and improve those. For any offensively geared character and build, reflect is by far the most dangerous affix, I suggest to equalize the danger of the affixes a little. Reflect could still be the most dangerous, just not ten times more potent than everything else.

    However with Blizzard's trend to not buff enemies most of the time, I don't see that happening, it will probably turn out to just nerf reflect. Still, I think this would be an improvement over the current situation; I don't like to carry additional items or choose my gear and build only with reflect damage mobs in mind.
  • #12
    Quote from Hasansabbat
    at the same time give us MP15-20 so I feel the challenge.

    "Yeah, I'm so awesome!"

    Quote from Hasansabbat
    @Oxidys I don't know what char you play, but I don't think that you can come even close to my damage output.

    "I don't know who you are, but I'm Mr. Awesome, for real!"

    Quote from Hasansabbat

    lol, If I played the game 24/7 I would have an insane char. I have a full time work and I can only play max 2-3 hours a day. I buy the items which are right for my char, If I had also copied %90 of the Witch Doctor builds and geared up to it I couldn't make these videos.

    "I play max 2-3h/day but still I have p94, 48k elite kills and insane credit card gear. So why do you still not believe in my awesomeness?"


    I have to say, this is one of the sickest (and most pointless) bragging topics I've seen here in quite a while.
  • #13
    @Jendroo, First of all I haven't spent a single penny on RMAH and actually I have made a real good amount in my paypal by far. How I made this much gold is because I play in party mostly and can farm much faster in a short period of time.

    I look for opportunities, I play on test server to see what I should buy before patch etc etc.

    When I want to buy an item I try to buy it from bid and most of my gear is bought this way.

    @Targariel, M8 pls use paragraphs :) Yet I still did read all ;) Do you think it would be fair if both casual player and a more dedicated player could play at the same difficulty lvl? I think no. So what you should do is either stick with the low MP you are playing and wish for a godly item to drop so that you can upgrade your char.
    I even think it is unfair that low lvl drops may roll godly stats.

    @Bagstone, Why you so mad bro?
  • #14
    Quote from Hasansabbat

    @Crateme Spirit Walk is actually 2 seconds and you can play smart to get less dmg from reflects. I didn't always had this much defenses yet I could survive reflects. The point is that these clips are MP10, and it shows reflect packs are ok. Most people are whining about MP7-8 reflects.

    @Oxidys I don't know what char you play, but I don't think that you can come even close to my damage output. Also that is another point of this clip, "surviving reflect with high dps" lol maybe I should have made this the title. So from your point of view we shouldn't get any defensive items and play as mages&demon hunters pre 1.02 patch.

    @Stromchin I got 2 immunities, one from passive and the other is spirit walk. So I use them in turns when my HP is low and heal fast with millions of crits. Also I gather other mobs around and get HP from them it makes things even easier. Btw My brother had a monk (he sold his equipment now was in top 100 DPS) he had a good skorn and his HP wasn't even moving vs reflect mobs in MP10.


    I thought the dmg dealt, not mp level, dictated how much was reflected. I could be wrong about that but I think I saw a post about that last week sometime
  • #15
    lol, bunch of butt hurt nerds pissed that someone can do what they cannot.

    Pretty much every single person I have ever seen complain about reflect damage has terrible Armor/All Resist, little to no health, low LOH/LS, and like 200K+ damage.

    Stop making super fragile builds that cannot take any damage.
  • #16
    Disagree! I say wizards are the most vulnerable to Reflect Damage!
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #17
    Quote from Jaetch

    Disagree! I say wizards are the most vulnerable to Reflect Damage!


    No they aren't!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
  • #18
    When they make sentries and my bat immune from reflect (as they said they will) I'll be happier. Until then I'll deal with the game the way it is.
    Conform or be cast out.

    My Demon Hunter: http://tinyurl.com/anufqzj

    Demon Hunter spreadsheet by Dretar http://www.diablofans.com/topic/46517-demon-hunter-dps-calculator/
  • #19
    Quote from Hasansabbat

    I even think it is unfair that low lvl drops may roll godly stats.


    Oops, gave yourself away, there.

    Quote from AudioCG

    lol, bunch of butt hurt nerds pissed that someone can do what they cannot.


    Oh, look, you have a little friend. How cute.
  • #20
    You do realize the question is ambiguous, right? As in, I don't see any need to "nerf" RD, but if it's broken, like Blizz claim it is, it should be fixed. Those are different things - if the trash in champion packs are bugged and are reflecting more than they should, then let they fix that. But no need for a nerf overall (unless you think that making pets not count towards RD is a nerf).
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