you can avoid a large majority of molten as a melee, if not all of it if you know what to do.
still cant figure out why you brought in D2, as i dont recall ever comparing...
and no, base line def with health input is not enough. my 140k dps DH has more defences on her gear then my barb, with 2.8% Life steal on weapon, but because i dont like gloom, i get to die 2 or 3 times to RD without ever getting hit. there is no skill involved with RD current iteration, why do people want fake difficulty, or simply try to be contrary for the sake of it.
RD is not fun! who the hell cares if "boo hoo, dont nerf the only hard affix" how about you start asking for the other to get buffed. instead of dragging down the game with a system that is simply not fun.
@AudioCD: No, you don't. You can easily sidestep the molten patches, go around enemies, etc etc. It's bullshit that you "have to stay in molten, so it's the same as RD to melee". Hell, it's beyond bullshit. It's being deliberately dishonest.
The only way to avoid RD completely is to NOT deal any damage.
Also, you say "oh, you don't need any particular skills to deal with RD". Well, I guess it's a coincidence that every WD uses spirit walk, every Monk uses serenity, every DH uses smoke screen/shadow power. Just a big fat coincidence.
Sure, these skills are useful in many situations, but it's my opinion that, were RD to be dropped from the game, many people would be dropping these skills.
I don't think people would drop those skills if RD was removed at all.
The survive-ability skills are universally chosen because of how potent they are, and how "un-potent" the alternatives are.
But sure, remove RD, and pretty much any other remotely difficult thing from Diablo 3, why not?
(hilarious coming from someone who claims super early/pre patched Diablo 2 was the greatest game of all time, a game that included Iron Maiden............)
Also "fake difficulty" (@ Oxidys)
DIABLO HAS ALWAYS USED "Fake Difficulty", heck, the series is literally BASED ON THAT CONCEPT FFS.
Honestly, it doesn't matter, as per usual, endless QQ will cause Blizz to endlessly nerf their games, it has happened to literally every single game they have ever made, and then after the fact, people complain about it. (for reference, Diablo, WoW and SC)
The circle jerk never ends. Seriously, people are already asking for "Invulnerable" to come back, Blizz will nerf RD into nothing, then people will pop up 6 months down the road, and complain that the game is too easy, and the monster affixes should be more potent.
We are already seeing people talking about missing pre 1.03 difficulty.
@AudioCD: No, you don't. You can easily sidestep the molten patches, go around enemies, etc etc. It's bullshit that you "have to stay in molten, so it's the same as RD to melee". Hell, it's beyond bullshit. It's being deliberately dishonest.
The only way to avoid RD completely is to NOT deal any damage.
Also, you say "oh, you don't need any particular skills to deal with RD". Well, I guess it's a coincidence that every WD uses spirit walk, every Monk uses serenity, every DH uses smoke screen/shadow power. Just a big fat coincidence.
Sure, these skills are useful in many situations, but it's my opinion that, were RD to be dropped from the game, many people would be dropping these skills.
I use spirit walk to run faster between trash/packs and to regen my mana. You miss a huge point in this video which is about the clearing speed. If I change one of my passives to the Jungle fortidute which provides %15 less dmg taken I totally become immune to reflect packs. I don't see my HP going up down etc. but my clearing speed becomes lower.
So as you see there are many ways to avoid reflect dmg. Monks I play with don't get serenity while barbs dont get war cry. And MP10 is our regular farming run I don't do MP10 to shoot videos.
@AudioCD: No, you don't. You can easily sidestep the molten patches, go around enemies, etc etc. It's bullshit that you "have to stay in molten, so it's the same as RD to melee". Hell, it's beyond bullshit. It's being deliberately dishonest.
The only way to avoid RD completely is to NOT deal any damage.
Also, you say "oh, you don't need any particular skills to deal with RD". Well, I guess it's a coincidence that every WD uses spirit walk, every Monk uses serenity, every DH uses smoke screen/shadow power. Just a big fat coincidence.
Sure, these skills are useful in many situations, but it's my opinion that, were RD to be dropped from the game, many people would be dropping these skills.
I use spirit walk to run faster between trash/packs and to regen my mana. You miss a huge point in this video which is about the clearing speed. If I change one of my passives to the Jungle fortidute which provides %15 less dmg taken I totally become immune to reflect packs. I don't see my HP going up down etc. but my clearing speed becomes lower.
So as you see there are many ways to avoid reflect dmg. Monks I play with don't get serenity while barbs dont get war cry. And MP10 is our regular farming run I don't do MP10 to shoot videos.
They aren't interested in actually doing anything about RD themselves, they just will rant and rage until Blizzard nerfs it out of the game.
it's a bad design for the affix, I see it as a fix, not as a nerf.
also, Thorns doesn't do % damage, if it would've - it would be OP.
no reason RD does.
it's a bad design for the affix, I see it as a fix, not as a nerf.
also, Thorns doesn't do % damage, if it would've - it would be OP.
no reason RD does.
That awkward moment when you realize Blizz is making adjustments to Thorns, more then likely via direct relation to stats/damage...
On topic: there are certain packs that are indeed broken right now with reflect (health link and certain champ packs) and blizzard has acknowledged this. These should be fixed. Other than that, adding in some defense and life steal seems to solve the problem even at very high damage output (top 1% type character damage output). Jaetch or someone with top .1% damage output would have to weigh in about RD at those levels. From my perspective, I would say some visual indication of reflects would be a good addition but, other than that and fixing known bugs, I don't see a need for an affix redesign or nerf.
i like to see how weak people's arguments are by how often they pick a single phrase or sentance, and think if they reply to just that, it automatically makes their point of view right.
its clearly time for me to leave this troll bait thread. instead of adding difficulty in fun and meaningful ways, people insist on banging their face into a curb to pretend its "a challange".
Just to clarify: I wasn't saying that RD should be removed from the game. I was saying that, were RD to be removed from the game, some people would start dropping skills like serenity and smoke screen, which says a lot about how RD limits skill choices.
And Iron Maiden was shit...so what? What's your point?
And I honestly dont think dropping RD would cause them to all of the sudden not use the best defesive abilities in the game, due to the lackluster "other" options. (possibly if Blizz actually buffs some alternatives)
Your own stance was that Diablo 2 before all the patches was the best version of Diablo 2 that existed, that the continued patches "ruined" the game.
Now, Iron Maiden was "shit", and it was a good change?
i like to see how weak people's arguments are by how often they pick a single phrase or sentance, and think if they reply to just that, it automatically makes their point of view right.
its clearly time for me to leave this troll bait thread. instead of adding difficulty in fun and meaningful ways, people insist on banging their face into a curb to pretend its "a challange".
Its Challenge BTW.
Ok, how would you suggest they make RD more challenging but in a different form?
On topic: there are certain packs that are indeed broken right now with reflect (health link and certain champ packs) and blizzard has acknowledged this. These should be fixed. Other than that, adding in some defense and life steal seems to solve the problem even at very high damage output (top 1% type character damage output). Jaetch or someone with top .1% damage output would have to weigh in about RD at those levels. From my perspective, I would say some visual indication of reflects would be a good addition but, other than that and fixing known bugs, I don't see a need for an affix redesign or nerf.
Exactly, but apparently, these simple things are far to restrictive for the player base.
Ok, how would you suggest they make RD more challenging but in a different form?
Im all ears.
They can make RD trigger on activation like shielding (with graphics to show). They can also make it reverse projectiles (at X% of its damage), and having those projectiles also hit friendlies. Would make co-op interesting if a bunch of DH arrows start hitting teammates. I dunno. I'm actually perfectly okay with RD as it is.
On topic: there are certain packs that are indeed broken right now with reflect (health link and certain champ packs) and blizzard has acknowledged this. These should be fixed. Other than that, adding in some defense and life steal seems to solve the problem even at very high damage output (top 1% type character damage output). Jaetch or someone with top .1% damage output would have to weigh in about RD at those levels. From my perspective, I would say some visual indication of reflects would be a good addition but, other than that and fixing known bugs, I don't see a need for an affix redesign or nerf.
I have put horde and Health link packs int o the clip btw Horde is hard, but provided you have enough dps health link is way too easy. The health link pack in vid dies in 9-10 seconds.
i like to see how weak people's arguments are by how often they pick a single phrase or sentance, and think if they reply to just that, it automatically makes their point of view right.
its clearly time for me to leave this troll bait thread. instead of adding difficulty in fun and meaningful ways, people insist on banging their face into a curb to pretend its "a challange".
Its Challenge BTW.
Ok, how would you suggest they make RD more challenging but in a different form?
Im all ears.
only reason im back in this thread is because you actually asked for some intellegent discussion.
anything that would make RD avoidable using player skill would make this ability infinitely more fun.
ie, increase its potency, but have it pulse on and off like shield affix does.
or when you hit the mob, it throws projectiles back at you that you can move and dodge.
anything that makes that affix actually involve player skill over manditory build options.
i dont want the affix to be easier, i want player skill to actually matter. if i can dodge it, then buff the shit out of its damage for all i care. i just want being good at the game to mean something.
Edit: being force to use a skill to trivialize RD =/= good at the game. it just limites players' ability to enjoy the game with the skills they like.
i like to see how weak people's arguments are by how often they pick a single phrase or sentance, and think if they reply to just that, it automatically makes their point of view right.
its clearly time for me to leave this troll bait thread. instead of adding difficulty in fun and meaningful ways, people insist on banging their face into a curb to pretend its "a challange".
Its Challenge BTW.
Ok, how would you suggest they make RD more challenging but in a different form?
Im all ears.
only reason im back in this thread is because you actually asked for some intellegent discussion.
anything that would make RD avoidable using player skill would make this ability infinitely more fun.
ie, increase its potency, but have it pulse on and off like shield affix does.
or when you hit the mob, it throws projectiles back at you that you can move and dodge.
anything that makes that affix actually involve player skill over manditory build options.
i dont want the affix to be easier, i want player skill to actually matter. if i can dodge it, then buff the shit out of its damage for all i care. i just want being good at the game to mean something.
Edit: being force to use a skill to trivialize RD =/= good at the game. it just limites players' ability to enjoy the game with the skills they like.
Only problem with reflect dmg is you take the dmg first then you heal from life steal. So, you don't nuke all targets at once if you have low defenses. That's the main problem for most of you guys. Try to separate mobs in reflect packs, or merge them with non-reflect mobs/packs around. So even if most say otherwise, dealing with reflect packs requires player skills as well.
In this video I demonstrated that reflects aren't a big problem on MP10 even if you have huge nuke ability. And I say it again, WD is the hardest to play vs reflect since it has the best nuke&dps in the game.
And I say it again, WD is the hardest to play vs reflect since it has the best nuke&dps in the game.
OK, now you just gave yourself away. But thanks for the good laugh...
7 x WD in the top 200DPS ?... And WD are the best DPS in game ? Just count the Wizards and DH in the top 200...
Not that I agree with everything else he's saying, but I think in this case he means "the best nuke&dps" as in the best nuke skill in the game, i.e., Zombie Bears - not overall character dps.
It would seem to me that this discussion is a joke since Blizzard already admitted to the RD issue being a fault of their miscalculation of the RD effect when using monster power. They are "fixing" their mistake because the way RD is implemented is not the way they intended it to work in the first place. To say they are "nerfing" it seems a bit short sighted. They are addressing a flaw in their game that arose when they implemented Monster Power.
And for the sake of all that is holy, the wizard is by far the most instagib character when it comes to RD. Even at 250k DPS unbuffed, pop Arcane Destruction within range of and RD mob and boom! Instagib! But to be honest, that's a whole other discussion. lol
7 x WD in the top 200DPS ?... And WD are the best DPS in game ? Just count the Wizards and DH in the top 200...
And guess what ? Even Jaetch and his 440K DPS unbuffed, despite HIMSELF having no issue with RD does understand why some people are frustrated about them and agrees they should be fixed.
I don't think RD needs a nerf, like many have said in this thread, but a FIX. I have a Wiz, probably quite very casual with my 145K DPS, 500 AR and 5% LL, have tried many many templates, and always come back to "the one" I love to play. Cause this is the way I like to play my Wiz and that's what it is about isn't it ? Everyone should be able to play their preferred style without being penalized for their template. Sure, I'm happy to die when I do stupid things, or when I don't have enough skill. I deserved it. What I do NOT deserve, is to be clustered out of my favourite template (which has been proven works pretty well : an old days classical Hydra - Blizzard - Signature spell : I favor Electrocute over the more traditional Piercing orb, but that is personal preference) and totally UNABLE to drop ANY form of Hydra since they do proc RD but NOT the LL from my weapon. If I just drop an Hydra on the ground, I'm dead no matter what I will do.
So all in all, I am very happy that Blizzard is going to permit me again to use my template to its full extend on the RD mobs as well. I'm persuaded that any Wiz who doesn't have any issues on RD doesn't use Hydra and that they would probably start having issues if they would. Banning a complete spell with any of its runes just cause of an affix is bad.
Yeah m8 go look at the sheet dps. That's the most accurate and correct data. You have no idea about WD class when you are playing with WD your dmg output becomes worse with increased attack speed.
Won't go in much detail but top dps WD's on the list can't match my farming speed&dmg output.
I don't have a problem with the concept of reflect damage. Its different and when mixed with other affixes gives a unique challenge.
I think ideally, it should reflect just enough to negate healing from the average characters LOH/LS/LPS etc. If you are average geared, you just have to be more carefull around reflect mobs, if you are undergeared in healing, you will feel the sting a bit, but not 1-shot yourself, and if you stack LOH/LS etc, its less noticeable or not noticeable at all.
The main two problems I have with it, is to outgear it now, you need to build your character just for RD. Which is not good design IMO. The affix is just too far out of whack from the others. It's really annoying 1-shotting yourself, or having to kite forever and wait for CDs for the affix. Especially on MP0-2, when you are intentionally nerfing mobs so you can speed run.
The other thing, of course, is not having nay visual queue that mobs have it. Make them glow red, make them have swords circle them, give them some indicater so I can see it before I melt my own face.
Also, Archon Wiz is by far the most effected by RD. CM not so much, but Archon......definately.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
still cant figure out why you brought in D2, as i dont recall ever comparing...
and no, base line def with health input is not enough. my 140k dps DH has more defences on her gear then my barb, with 2.8% Life steal on weapon, but because i dont like gloom, i get to die 2 or 3 times to RD without ever getting hit. there is no skill involved with RD current iteration, why do people want fake difficulty, or simply try to be contrary for the sake of it.
RD is not fun! who the hell cares if "boo hoo, dont nerf the only hard affix" how about you start asking for the other to get buffed. instead of dragging down the game with a system that is simply not fun.
I don't think people would drop those skills if RD was removed at all.
The survive-ability skills are universally chosen because of how potent they are, and how "un-potent" the alternatives are.
But sure, remove RD, and pretty much any other remotely difficult thing from Diablo 3, why not?
(hilarious coming from someone who claims super early/pre patched Diablo 2 was the greatest game of all time, a game that included Iron Maiden............)
Also "fake difficulty" (@ Oxidys)
DIABLO HAS ALWAYS USED "Fake Difficulty", heck, the series is literally BASED ON THAT CONCEPT FFS.
Honestly, it doesn't matter, as per usual, endless QQ will cause Blizz to endlessly nerf their games, it has happened to literally every single game they have ever made, and then after the fact, people complain about it. (for reference, Diablo, WoW and SC)
The circle jerk never ends. Seriously, people are already asking for "Invulnerable" to come back, Blizz will nerf RD into nothing, then people will pop up 6 months down the road, and complain that the game is too easy, and the monster affixes should be more potent.
We are already seeing people talking about missing pre 1.03 difficulty.
I use spirit walk to run faster between trash/packs and to regen my mana. You miss a huge point in this video which is about the clearing speed. If I change one of my passives to the Jungle fortidute which provides %15 less dmg taken I totally become immune to reflect packs. I don't see my HP going up down etc. but my clearing speed becomes lower.
So as you see there are many ways to avoid reflect dmg. Monks I play with don't get serenity while barbs dont get war cry. And MP10 is our regular farming run I don't do MP10 to shoot videos.
They aren't interested in actually doing anything about RD themselves, they just will rant and rage until Blizzard nerfs it out of the game.
also, Thorns doesn't do % damage, if it would've - it would be OP.
no reason RD does.
That awkward moment when you realize Blizz is making adjustments to Thorns, more then likely via direct relation to stats/damage...
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004456089?page=3#53
D3Progress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/emberos-1608/Emberos/51824579
its clearly time for me to leave this troll bait thread. instead of adding difficulty in fun and meaningful ways, people insist on banging their face into a curb to pretend its "a challange".
And I honestly dont think dropping RD would cause them to all of the sudden not use the best defesive abilities in the game, due to the lackluster "other" options. (possibly if Blizz actually buffs some alternatives)
Your own stance was that Diablo 2 before all the patches was the best version of Diablo 2 that existed, that the continued patches "ruined" the game.
Now, Iron Maiden was "shit", and it was a good change?
Its Challenge BTW.
Ok, how would you suggest they make RD more challenging but in a different form?
Im all ears.
Exactly, but apparently, these simple things are far to restrictive for the player base.
I see what you did there.
They can make RD trigger on activation like shielding (with graphics to show). They can also make it reverse projectiles (at X% of its damage), and having those projectiles also hit friendlies. Would make co-op interesting if a bunch of DH arrows start hitting teammates. I dunno. I'm actually perfectly okay with RD as it is.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
only reason im back in this thread is because you actually asked for some intellegent discussion.
anything that would make RD avoidable using player skill would make this ability infinitely more fun.
ie, increase its potency, but have it pulse on and off like shield affix does.
or when you hit the mob, it throws projectiles back at you that you can move and dodge.
anything that makes that affix actually involve player skill over manditory build options.
i dont want the affix to be easier, i want player skill to actually matter. if i can dodge it, then buff the shit out of its damage for all i care. i just want being good at the game to mean something.
Edit: being force to use a skill to trivialize RD =/= good at the game. it just limites players' ability to enjoy the game with the skills they like.
In this video I demonstrated that reflects aren't a big problem on MP10 even if you have huge nuke ability. And I say it again, WD is the hardest to play vs reflect since it has the best nuke&dps in the game.
Not that I agree with everything else he's saying, but I think in this case he means "the best nuke&dps" as in the best nuke skill in the game, i.e., Zombie Bears - not overall character dps.
And for the sake of all that is holy, the wizard is by far the most instagib character when it comes to RD. Even at 250k DPS unbuffed, pop Arcane Destruction within range of and RD mob and boom! Instagib! But to be honest, that's a whole other discussion. lol
Yeah m8 go look at the sheet dps. That's the most accurate and correct data. You have no idea about WD class when you are playing with WD your dmg output becomes worse with increased attack speed.
Won't go in much detail but top dps WD's on the list can't match my farming speed&dmg output.
I think ideally, it should reflect just enough to negate healing from the average characters LOH/LS/LPS etc. If you are average geared, you just have to be more carefull around reflect mobs, if you are undergeared in healing, you will feel the sting a bit, but not 1-shot yourself, and if you stack LOH/LS etc, its less noticeable or not noticeable at all.
The main two problems I have with it, is to outgear it now, you need to build your character just for RD. Which is not good design IMO. The affix is just too far out of whack from the others. It's really annoying 1-shotting yourself, or having to kite forever and wait for CDs for the affix. Especially on MP0-2, when you are intentionally nerfing mobs so you can speed run.
The other thing, of course, is not having nay visual queue that mobs have it. Make them glow red, make them have swords circle them, give them some indicater so I can see it before I melt my own face.
Also, Archon Wiz is by far the most effected by RD. CM not so much, but Archon......definately.