DEBATE: Spending money on virtual items, and more

  • #103
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from ruksak

    You always pay to win because you either pay in time or in a currency.


    This is by far the most dishonest, skewed manner of excuse crafting I have ever heard.

    Right or wrong, good or bad, buying items/gold is a shortcut. There is no way around it, there is no excuse to trump it.....it is a shortcut. So much so that it has always been considered cheating until the RMAH came into being. Now, it is not against the rules, therefor not appropriately titled as cheating. But still, buying items retains it's reputation as a shortcut, the easy road etc.


    No one has ever disagreed that it's not a shortcut, but why does everything has to be an "excuse" in your opinion? An excuse is a justification for a fault, if you did something wrong (paraphrasing OED). By throwing at everyone that they make up "excuses" as reason for using real money, you kind of judge them as if they had done something wrong. Actually, if I don't have the time, I think it would be more wrong to jeopardize my job just to catch up on the 200 hours played gap to my friends than to quickly close the gap by throwing in 10 Euros. Is it a shortcut? Absolutely. But why is this an excuse? To whom should I say sorry? What fault did I make? Whom did I offend? Remember, D3 is non-competitive and no esports.


    I have yet to hear it. Someone step up, be a man and put it plainly..."YES, I wanted to do it the easy way. I was willing to pay to be one of the best instead of earning it. I took a shortcut."

    Instead we get excuses..."I work long hours.....I have a family......I have lots of money.......time is money, so if you spend time playing it's the same as buying items". Fucking excuses.

    I don't look down on RMAH'ers. They only get fulfillment from the game while playing with the best gears. The game is funner when you have good shit, so I understand this. The closest I'll come to aiming an insult would be to say they let their pride defeat their patience.

    Call it like it is.....it is what it is....it's a shortcut.

    Diablo is a competitive game, even without PvP. You know it, I know it, we all know it. There is a sort of keeping up with the Jones' when you play D3. Friends linking thier hot new gears to you, thier DPS skyrocketing while yours stays embarrassingly low. Some players can fight through that and meet their friends at the top of the mountain at a later date.

    Many people cannot. This will not do. Instead of blowing cash money on some other bullshit that gives them temporary happiness they make a decision, a decision to shortcut that trip to the top of the mountain.

    What I'm highlighting is a perceived shame among the community of RMAH'ers. A shame that they themselves often harbor. They feel the need to offer excuses for their decisions. They react and flail wildly in full-on defensive mode when their method of accomplishment is brought into question (as can be seen here, in this thread).

    It was even hinted at that I'm "stupid" because I mentioned that I, personally, feel like I'm cheating myself by buying items so that's why I don't do it. Such a static, non-offensive and honest comment was repudiated like I'm some stumbling fuckin clown......just for saying how it makes me feel, personally, to buy items and why I do not participate.

    I will be clear by stating that I'm referring to people whom have bought full gear-sets for one or more characters. Not people whom maybe bought an item or two to top-off their main, or someone that bought that white-whale item they've always wanted.

    To the secondary theme of this thread; Do I feel it is wrong, from a real life perspective/financial perspective to buy items?

    NO. We Americans waste soooo much money on gratuitous amounts of entertainment, how could I possibly claim someone is wrong for dropping cash on pixels? It's fine, go for it. Wasting $100 on an imaginary sword is no more a waste than wasting a hundred dollars on porn, or model trains, or any other hobby-esqe expenditure.
  • #104
    Quote from thundersteele

    Back in the days when internet would cost per hour, putting more time into an online game was equal to spending more money on it. Would you consider this cheating?



    No. A better analogy, if I may play devils advocate, would be like gaming was in the early 1980's. When you tried to get your name on the Top 10 leader-board of the local arcade machine. The kids whom had their 3 letter initials of "FUX" or "CUM" or the always popular "ASS"......those were the kids that had the quarters. Those were the kids who's parents would throw them a $20 bill and tell them to go fuck off and do what they want with it.

    Meanwhile, myself and my poor friends would search around under drive-thru windows looking for dropped change like we're some fucking hobo's or something. So the idea that more money IRL = a "higher score" is not a new one.

    If you lend a friend your high end weapon for a PvP match, is that cheating?


    It's a shortcut. By definition, cheating is a willful violation of stated rules. If no rule is broken, it cannot be termed as cheating. In D2, buying items was against the rules (terms of use). In D3, it is sanctioned so long as you buy through their means.

    You want to win so badly that you use something that's not yours to win. Again, this is an issue of personal fulfillment. I don't feel fulfilled, like so many others here, by accomplishing something on false or contrived circumstances. Cheaters never win etc etc.

    What if that friend gives you $20 for the same weapon? What if it is not a close friend but someone you met on the internet a week ago? Where is the difference, where do you draw the line?


    There is no need for a common line. The line is personal. My line stops at accepting handouts and using my REAL LIFE money to buy items to use to my advantage within the gaming realm. To me, this is cheating ones self of the experience of rising up.

    Some people spend a lot of money on equipment so they have more FPS, which gives them a slight edge in some games (e.g. FPS). Would you say that they "pay to win"?


    None of these analogies work. C'mon.....all these things are external to the game itself. I play on a crap Nvivdia 6800GT vid card, I have a daughter, a relationship, friends, a job and a busy life. Yet I still have managed to move up, I still manage to squeak in enough hours to play enough to get somewhere in this game.

    I understand that, yes, some people are busier than I....but as far as I'm concerned, they can just wait that much longer if they had true pride in their gaming. But no, not most of them. They'll get ahead the American way, they'll buy it.
  • #105
    When someone says they have a full-time job, kids or whatever so they spent money to catch up on playing, that is not called an excuse. It's called circumstances
    .
    An excuse is something you give when you've done soemthing wrong.

    When someone says: "Today instead of playing Diablo 3 I'm going to work. It's how I make money. Afterwards I'm going back home and I'm gonna buy this sweet weapon I've been eyeing for 100 euros", they don't need an excuse, their job is not an excuse and they've done/are not going to do anything wrong. They are unable to do it the long way (I stress the word unable), and are willing to pay for a shortcut to make up.

    They don't have to "admit" it. The 100 euro weapon is just as legit as the one that took you a week to farm. In fact, it can be argued as even harder to get. All you had to do was sit there and farm the game you love. They had to find a job, earn a paycheck and then pay real money.

    You see it as silly. Some don't. Some people think professional wrestling is silly. Some don't. Some think sports are silly. Some don't. Bottom line: If your spending principles prevent you from RMAH, good for you but you're neither "right" nor "wrong"; and no one has to "admit" anything to you as they too are not wrong either.
  • #106
    ruksak,

    People are perceptive, you're clearly referring to "short cuts" in a pejorative manner. Theres no hiding behind that. You can be upset that someone spent their income or INVESTED their money into a game for FURTHER enjoyment. How you choose to validate or actualize that information is clearly subjective. No one needs to tell you "I circumvented the normal process" Because there is no clear normal process, and if they are obtained within the boundaries of the game ITS NOT A SHORT CUT ITS JUST THE FASTEST ROUTE youre implying that they have deceptively deviated from a standard route. You might be able to say purchasing HR's in Diablo 2 would be a short cut because its against the ToS and no one is supposed to do it (the fact they are all duped and shouldn't be that many available in the first place is worth mentioning as a "short cut" for everyone as a whole..Does that automatically make everyone in the game, those who have played yet or not, "short cutters?" because theyre bound to be in a corrupted game state) But in Diablo 3 these features are DIRECTLY encorporated into the entire games structure. Let's break it down.... You can farm for your gear...If you have specific gear in mind your odds of landing the exact gear minimums you want could be 1/1,000,000,000, or you could find some awesome gear and trade with someone who has the gear you want, or you can trade that gear for gold, sell that gold, and cash that balance in to buy more gold/items at a later date. Therefore, gold, time, trading, and real money are all equal components of the game, but at different times certain ones will be more lucrative, should you choose to be inefficient with your time or resources, well that may just be a poor choice, but that doesnt make you a player with better morals or patience. You have optionally chose to limit they way you play, and thats fine IF YOU ARE SATISFIED.
  • #107
    Im an AH lady of the night!
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