To my oppinion there is a Cap to reasonable spending on tthe rmah.
i have no problem with someone having invested a lot of hours in the game and then spending some money to build his character to the max - which is actually what OP did. ( i might even do it too)
BUT i can not understand how someone ( and i met this one) spends 300€ on gold , buys fine stuff in the AH , ends up with better gear than i have - and then calls me for help because he struggles with Ubers on MP6.
spending money on something you like is fine, but only as long as you can take full profit of your spend money.
why buy a super fast car nowadays? especially in the usa you can't drive as fast as you want - so why pay for this "feature" ?
same goes for diablo . if you cant utilize the items you bought to the full extend either because you dont know how, or because you dont care enough about the game to improve your knowledge about it - spending money on the RMAH is fucking bogous.
asume you are a cook ( in germany tthose guys have 14 hour work days...) you have about 1 hour a day to play diablo .why even bother with buying stuff - you'll nevar have the time to appreciate your bought items. : solution : dont buy stuff on rmah
asume you are a very good player with enough time at hand to improve your character without using the rmah. Then improve your character unttill you feel like nott making enough progress anymore for the ttime invested -> tthen use the rmah.
if you feel like you dont progress fast enough on lv 10 and feel the need for buying items you are either a dumb fuck or have tottally unreasonable expectations tto tthe game you're playing
sorry for ttypos but some keys of my keyboard trigger multiple times -- sometimes^^
oh AND THIS:
But yes, I will elaborate. People think that paying "real money" in a video game is a huge leap from paying in gold or from grinding for an item. What people don't realize is that currencies are only a numerical representation of value. As soon as there is a collective demand for goods, both virtual and "real," value is created. Humans developed currencies to represent this value in a tangible way, and to make the exchange of these goods more liquid.
When there is collective demand from real people for an item within a game market, the same value is created as anything else in the world, and you can put a number on it. That number can be different depending on the currency you are using to represent the value. You need a lot more Yen than Euros to represent the same value. The same goes for gold.
Gold is like a foreign currency. It represents value, but only within the specific game world. You can't use gold to buy things in stores in the US, just like you can't use Yen to buy things in those stores. If, however, you can convert that currency to a usable one, it has an "exchange rate." Gold has an exchange rate exactly like a foreign currency has. (Except gold is more easily exchanged than 90% of the currencies in the world) This is why botting should not only be against the rules, it should be illegal. (Korea kinda gets it)
So items are just exchanged at the value that demand sets. Regardless of whether it is in gold or real money. Or even in bartering. People demand, the market supplies.
It will get long, but bear with me.
The concept of "pay to win."
You always pay to win. I just explained how gold and USD are very much the same within a game economy, but there is something even less tangible that is also the same: time. Time is the most valuable currency there is. There is an exchange rate for time to money, but there is no exchange rate back.
Gamers who play within economies create the value of the currency (gold) when they take time to accumulate that currency, and the rarity of an item contributes to the item's value equal to the amount of time a person would have to play to statistically obtain it. This is very similar to any currency and wage labor. (I would love to hear Marx's thoughts on Diablo gold) This is time being converted into a currency. (THIS IS REALLY WHY BOTTING SHOULD BE ILLEGAL Through dilution, bots destroy real value that gamers create by playing.)
You always pay to win because you either pay in time or in a currency. Some people are rich in time, and some people are rich in currency. And anyone who spends more time will also have the skills to back it up. Plus, why not let people with a lot of money give your game time real-world value?
The only problem with Diablo in this regard IMO is that gear is possibly too much of a factor in terms of your heroes ability. Not that it shouldn't be significant, but it should be balanced with skill. This is a difficult balance for a dev team.
With this balance, paying money for the gear is the equivalent of purchasing nice golf clubs, or high tech running/climbing/basketball shoes. It's purchasing gear that gives you an edge on the competition in the game that you play. A thousand dollars for a good set of golf clubs gives you the ability to play the game of golf better than someone of equal skill playing with a $10 garage sale set. It doesn't automatically make you good, but it helps you get there. And if you love that game, then by all means play your best.
since tthis guy explains that time cannott be convertted to time and time= money you should totally understand my oppinion
Much of the bitterness that 'straight edge' players like myself have toward people whom buy gear/gold comes from the bad apples that buy all their gear and then make fun of others (whom don't buy gears) for having less than elite gears.
Jaetch seems like the type of player that would never do this.
I couldn't agree more.
If you think people who spend real money on a game are jerks, just look at Jaetch, he's the perfect example of the opposite.
I would argue he's the exception, though, rather than the rule.
Some folks don’t have time to grind in-game all day because they are grinding all day at a real job and the money they make at their real job lets them get to the point they want to reach in-game by buying some upgrades that they would have otherwise never had the time to find.
Then why play a grinding game??? That's what I don't get! With the myriad of titles available, why pick a franchise that is KNOWN for requiring grind, if you are unable to grind??
This is why I refuse to accept the argument "well, some people don't have time to grind".
I don't have a lot of time to grind; hell, just look at my characters! Their gear is poor. I could buy gear, but what the hell's the point?
It'd be like paying real money to become better at football (soccer for the yanks). Yeah, sure, I don't have the time to train and play all day (and believe me, I'd love to); if I did, I'd be much better. But would I pay money to instantly become much better, even if I had the option? Hell no, I'd rather have my three weekly footy matches and evolve from there.
To finalise, I'd also like to say that I don't understand why people feel that they must play in the highest MPs or the game's not fun; and the only way they have to get themselves to that level of gear is to hop into the RMAH.
Higher MPs are just like lower MPs; they just have bigger numbers.
Please, there are casual grinders as well as hardcore grinders. Here in this thread you see both. There are some people who find more joy in grinding higher MP levels and getting the bonus magic find and the items that come with being able to run through a higher MP level with great speed and efficiency. In order to do that you need to either grind for months to get the gear needed or you pay up front and get there quicker. I argue that those willing to spend some money now will have more time to grind for the better magic gear and sell it on the AH and in a short time recoup the money they originally invested in their character. If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.
Grinding is a relative term for everyone. Some consider grinding a couple hours in a day running the same route and some find it to be a 8 hours in a day running an entire act or two. In the end, a grind can be more fun for guys who want to have the instant magic find for a little real money and it can be equally as fun for guys who want their own personal gratification for finding all their gear over the course of a few months.
Is it a waste of money? Most definaltey! Does it make me happy? Damn right it does! Slamming on a new AAA title that i have never played before whenever the hell i want is ace, i got AC3 to play... but i just got done with AC2 and have revelations and brotherhood to play, did it stop me from buying AC3 the moment it came out.. even though i won't even have the other two games done by christmas and it'll probably be on price drop? NOPE.
You sound almost exactly like one of my friends regarding Assassin's Creed. He also has Resident Evil 6 collecting dust under his desk and wants to borrow my Final Fantasy XIII-2 while just starting AC3. I told him to come party with me on D3, but he still believes barbs are useless tanks (he quit during the whole Inferno Act 2 impossibility era back in June).
And yes, it's a game, and you play to kill time and be happy. So cheers
This entire thread is the epitome of douche! You wrote a whole tl;dr post about how one guy antagonized you over something, which is all good and fine, but then you go ahead and say you PITY him?! Isn't that a little hypocritical at the very least? If you want to act all high and mighty about something, at least be the bigger man and take the high road. Saying you understand his opinion and pity him for it is extremely presumptuous. This trail kid could've easily posted his own thing about how he understands the opinion of this Jaetch kid he argued with on bnet and pities Jaetch for having elementary incorrect opinions which are easily understood. Your tunnel vision is evidently blinding you since you can't see this!
Anyway I'm with whoever said the game genie bit. But I have no problem with people who spend on the rmah! Without them I wouldn't be able to sell my digital stuff for irl cash money!
Flame on
QFT.
I was reading the posts and was going to add something until I read this and shit... this dude just took the words out of my mouth.
Excuse me, but apparently you did not read and/or understand the whole thing. The reason why I pitied the guy was because he could not understand the whole point of the argument, which is the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how to manage their personal finances. It's opinion about people's own lives. I understood where he was coming from in terms of being against spending money on virtual items and skipping progression, much like ruksak here is. And I understand that. However, I do not understand why someone will berate others solely because they don't agree with other people's interests.
No one else was there with me during the actual discussion, so there's no way you'd know all the details. However, the majority of the time was spent trying to convince Trail that it's essentially "to each his own," "whatever floats your boat," "whatever tickles your pickle." And he could not accept that. It's purely philosophical. I'm fine with him being irritated that I'm blowing money on game items, I'm also fine with him not accepting other people's way of doing things (as I've stated, I wasn't offended the entire time until he put my friends and family into the argument). I say I pity him because he's closed-minded and will not acknowledge that people have opinions that differ from his.
That's what I'm saying! I really doubt you understood his argument the way you think you do. And to assume that you understand him to completion and that he doesn't understand you is the hypocritical, tunnel-visioned part. Now you're saying I don't understand your argument, so you must pity me too. And someone else can come say I am being a hypocrite for criticizing you because I don't understand your argument fully. And so on and so forth. Mind blown.
Conclusion: No one truly understands anyone else. So there's no point in bitching and moaning and getting upset about other people's opinions. Trail bitched at you on bnet. You bitched about him on dfans. I bitched about you on dfans.
If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.
That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.
I wont pretend to have read all of this, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but if your are financially stable, I would consider it a little off to play diablo 3 every moment you aren't working to legitimately farm those items, when a few hours of work will just buy them for you. People that don't multi box and don't scam cant make more than a couple dollars a day off of diablo, whereas if you worked at a decent job for 2 weeks you could buy most of the gear you need to hit the top of the charts (although those 2 bil items are a little expensive) So one could argue that if they didn't enjoy killing the same monsters for weeks, but still wanted to enjoy feeling powerful within the games limits, buying said power would be the least painful way to accomplish that goal.
That's what I'm saying! I really doubt you understood his argument the way you think you do. And to assume that you understand him to completion and that he doesn't understand you is the hypocritical, tunnel-visioned part. Now you're saying I don't understand your argument, so you must pity me too. And someone else can come say I am being a hypocrite for criticizing you because I don't understand your argument fully. And so on and so forth. Mind blown.
Conclusion: No one truly understands anyone else. So there's no point in bitching and moaning and getting upset about other people's opinions. Trail bitched at you on bnet. You bitched about him on dfans. I bitched about you on dfans.
Boom.
So you're essentially saying, no one wins, no one will ever understand, nothing is right or wrong?
I guess. But that's what this whole post is about. Differentiating opinions. FYI, if you haven't realized it, I'm all for differentiating opinions and how people go about their business. I'm calling this out because the person (Trail) that everyone else in the trade channel involved was arguing with did not accept opinions different from his own and ended up berating others based on their opinions. So instead of having a healthy discussion with other people regarding spending money on virtual items—which was the catalyst for the argument in the first place—everyone ended up arguing with the guy about how to process other people's opinions. And so...
I moved over here for the discussion regarding real-life currency and virtual items.
That's what I'm saying! I really doubt you understood his argument the way you think you do. And to assume that you understand him to completion and that he doesn't understand you is the hypocritical, tunnel-visioned part. Now you're saying I don't understand your argument, so you must pity me too. And someone else can come say I am being a hypocrite for criticizing you because I don't understand your argument fully. And so on and so forth. Mind blown.
Conclusion: No one truly understands anyone else. So there's no point in bitching and moaning and getting upset about other people's opinions. Trail bitched at you on bnet. You bitched about him on dfans. I bitched about you on dfans.
Boom.
So you're essentially saying, no one wins, no one will ever understand, nothing is right or wrong?
I guess. But that's what this whole post is about. Differentiating opinions. FYI, if you haven't realized it, I'm all for differentiating opinions and how people go about their business. I'm calling this out because the person (Trail) that everyone else in the trade channel involved was arguing with did not accept opinions different from his own and ended up berating others based on their opinions. So instead of having a healthy discussion with him regarding spending money on virtual items—which was the catalyst for the argument in the first place—
I moved over here for the discussion.
I do know you say you are pro differentiating opinions, but calling trail out and pitying him for not being open minded is not understanding and accepting his apparently fervent opinion against you. I realize the point of this thread is differentiating opinions, but it could've been done with an open poll without the qq back story. In fact, I'm not 100% sure but I THINK there have been many threads about RMAH vs grind yourself already. If not specific threads, many AH threads have definitely devolved/evolved into that.
I realize the point of this thread is differentiating opinions, but it could've been done with an open poll without the qq back story.
Sorry, I make a living by the word and the pen(keyboard) as my sword, so cranking out tl;dr pieces is a habit of mine
And yes, there are quite a few RMAH vs. manual grinding topics out there, but most of them I've seen are on the official forums, and we all know how well discussions go there (at least on the American server).
If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.
That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.
And it works
I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.
And even with the best gear in every slot, at something crazy like 800k DPS AND survivability clearing MP10 all day, its still random, and you could potentially never make more than a few dollars back. Thats a lot to invest in the market of a game that falls every week (on average the gold prices on the RMAH have fallen by 1.5 cents per week, and will hit the minimum of 25 and stay there very soon. *already hit .25 last weekend, europe is already sitting at .25)
EDIT: and also, don't think that just because the minimum is 25 cents that it will stop going down at that point. Websites will continue to offer better and better deals as more and more bots saturate the game, and nothing is done about them.
If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.
That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.
And it works
I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.
There's good with the bad though. If Blizzard makes more and more money from the transactions that go on in-game then would that not show a working model for future revenue? If there is revenue in a game then there is potential for longevity and that is good for us. I figure the minority of purists will complain but the end result is apealing to the majority and that is good for all of us that want more choices and options. Options are good. If you like grinding for months on end you can do that. If you want to pay your hard earned money to get there quicker then you can do that too. People who complain about others choosing to play a game in a different way just don't see the bigger picture...
^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.
You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.
^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.
You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.
Uh, did I miss something here? Seriously, I think there's a point or two in here that somehow got misinterpreted and went wildly awry.
^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.
You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.
Uh, did I miss something here? Seriously, I think there's a point or two in here that somehow got misinterpreted and went wildly awry.
I feel the need to point out when people try to hide nasty insults in an intelligent argument. Its a pet peeve of mine
If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.
That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.
And it works
I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.
And even with the best gear in every slot, at something crazy like 800k DPS AND survivability clearing MP10 all day, its still random, and you could potentially never make more than a few dollars back. Thats a lot to invest in the market of a game that falls every week (on average the gold prices on the RMAH have fallen by 1.5 cents per week, and will hit the minimum of 25 and stay there very soon. *already hit .25 last weekend, europe is already sitting at .25)
EDIT: and also, don't think that just because the minimum is 25 cents that it will stop going down at that point. Websites will continue to offer better and better deals as more and more bots saturate the game, and nothing is done about them.
maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use
If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.
That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.
And it works
I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.
And even with the best gear in every slot, at something crazy like 800k DPS AND survivability clearing MP10 all day, its still random, and you could potentially never make more than a few dollars back. Thats a lot to invest in the market of a game that falls every week (on average the gold prices on the RMAH have fallen by 1.5 cents per week, and will hit the minimum of 25 and stay there very soon. *already hit .25 last weekend, europe is already sitting at .25)
EDIT: and also, don't think that just because the minimum is 25 cents that it will stop going down at that point. Websites will continue to offer better and better deals as more and more bots saturate the game, and nothing is done about them.
maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use
Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer
maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use
Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer
....you could also get banned for selling it....and i doubt anyone is selling at 12 cent since it sell at 30-34 cent US easy before cut
I choose not to spend real money in the game because I know that I will get bored really fast if I just buy all the gears I wanted (which I can easily afford). I get the same feeling when I am playing a game, and it gets kind of boring, so I turn on cheat mode just to finish it and quit.
maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use
Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer
....you could also get banned for selling it....and i doubt anyone is selling at 12 cent since it sell at 30-34 cent US easy before cut
It took me 2 seconds to find a legitimate website that is currently selling at a rate of 24 cents per million US. That was a theoretical argument. Obviously it isn't at 12 cents yet, but it will be if nothing is done about the bot saturation level.
I wouldn't just straight up swipe my CC and just buy all my gear, that would take out like 90% of the game for me, seems pointless.
However,
I have (and still do) buy and sell on the GAH, and pre 1.03 I had sold some stuff on the RMAH, put said funds gained from said sales into my Bnet account, then turned that balance into in game gold at a later date.
It does not bother me in any way if others want to just buy all their stuff outright, I have a hard time understanding why they would want to do that, but, whatever floats their boat I guess.
I also dont really see buying gear from others as "pay to win", last time I checked, getting an item from another player was called "trading" (in D2 it was for Runes/Gear/Forum Gold, in D3 it is for Gold/Gear/Cash).
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i have no problem with someone having invested a lot of hours in the game and then spending some money to build his character to the max - which is actually what OP did. ( i might even do it too)
BUT i can not understand how someone ( and i met this one) spends 300€ on gold , buys fine stuff in the AH , ends up with better gear than i have - and then calls me for help because he struggles with Ubers on MP6.
spending money on something you like is fine, but only as long as you can take full profit of your spend money.
why buy a super fast car nowadays? especially in the usa you can't drive as fast as you want - so why pay for this "feature" ?
same goes for diablo . if you cant utilize the items you bought to the full extend either because you dont know how, or because you dont care enough about the game to improve your knowledge about it - spending money on the RMAH is fucking bogous.
asume you are a cook ( in germany tthose guys have 14 hour work days...) you have about 1 hour a day to play diablo .why even bother with buying stuff - you'll nevar have the time to appreciate your bought items. : solution : dont buy stuff on rmah
asume you are a very good player with enough time at hand to improve your character without using the rmah. Then improve your character unttill you feel like nott making enough progress anymore for the ttime invested -> tthen use the rmah.
if you feel like you dont progress fast enough on lv 10 and feel the need for buying items you are either a dumb fuck or have tottally unreasonable expectations tto tthe game you're playing
sorry for ttypos but some keys of my keyboard trigger multiple times -- sometimes^^
oh AND THIS:
since tthis guy explains that time cannott be convertted to time and time= money you should totally understand my oppinion
Please, there are casual grinders as well as hardcore grinders. Here in this thread you see both. There are some people who find more joy in grinding higher MP levels and getting the bonus magic find and the items that come with being able to run through a higher MP level with great speed and efficiency. In order to do that you need to either grind for months to get the gear needed or you pay up front and get there quicker. I argue that those willing to spend some money now will have more time to grind for the better magic gear and sell it on the AH and in a short time recoup the money they originally invested in their character. If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.
Grinding is a relative term for everyone. Some consider grinding a couple hours in a day running the same route and some find it to be a 8 hours in a day running an entire act or two. In the end, a grind can be more fun for guys who want to have the instant magic find for a little real money and it can be equally as fun for guys who want their own personal gratification for finding all their gear over the course of a few months.
You sound almost exactly like one of my friends regarding Assassin's Creed. He also has Resident Evil 6 collecting dust under his desk and wants to borrow my Final Fantasy XIII-2 while just starting AC3. I told him to come party with me on D3, but he still believes barbs are useless tanks (he quit during the whole Inferno Act 2 impossibility era back in June).
And yes, it's a game, and you play to kill time and be happy. So cheers
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
That's what I'm saying! I really doubt you understood his argument the way you think you do. And to assume that you understand him to completion and that he doesn't understand you is the hypocritical, tunnel-visioned part. Now you're saying I don't understand your argument, so you must pity me too. And someone else can come say I am being a hypocrite for criticizing you because I don't understand your argument fully. And so on and so forth. Mind blown.
Conclusion: No one truly understands anyone else. So there's no point in bitching and moaning and getting upset about other people's opinions. Trail bitched at you on bnet. You bitched about him on dfans. I bitched about you on dfans.
Boom.
And it works
Currently played toon: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/97362116
Edited for added clarity!
So you're essentially saying, no one wins, no one will ever understand, nothing is right or wrong?
I guess. But that's what this whole post is about. Differentiating opinions. FYI, if you haven't realized it, I'm all for differentiating opinions and how people go about their business. I'm calling this out because the person (Trail) that everyone else in the trade channel involved was arguing with did not accept opinions different from his own and ended up berating others based on their opinions. So instead of having a healthy discussion with other people regarding spending money on virtual items—which was the catalyst for the argument in the first place—everyone ended up arguing with the guy about how to process other people's opinions. And so...
I moved over here for the discussion regarding real-life currency and virtual items.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I do know you say you are pro differentiating opinions, but calling trail out and pitying him for not being open minded is not understanding and accepting his apparently fervent opinion against you. I realize the point of this thread is differentiating opinions, but it could've been done with an open poll without the qq back story. In fact, I'm not 100% sure but I THINK there have been many threads about RMAH vs grind yourself already. If not specific threads, many AH threads have definitely devolved/evolved into that.
Sorry, I make a living by the word and the pen(keyboard) as my sword, so cranking out tl;dr pieces is a habit of mine
And yes, there are quite a few RMAH vs. manual grinding topics out there, but most of them I've seen are on the official forums, and we all know how well discussions go there (at least on the American server).
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
And even with the best gear in every slot, at something crazy like 800k DPS AND survivability clearing MP10 all day, its still random, and you could potentially never make more than a few dollars back. Thats a lot to invest in the market of a game that falls every week (on average the gold prices on the RMAH have fallen by 1.5 cents per week, and will hit the minimum of 25 and stay there very soon. *already hit .25 last weekend, europe is already sitting at .25)
EDIT: and also, don't think that just because the minimum is 25 cents that it will stop going down at that point. Websites will continue to offer better and better deals as more and more bots saturate the game, and nothing is done about them.
There's good with the bad though. If Blizzard makes more and more money from the transactions that go on in-game then would that not show a working model for future revenue? If there is revenue in a game then there is potential for longevity and that is good for us. I figure the minority of purists will complain but the end result is apealing to the majority and that is good for all of us that want more choices and options. Options are good. If you like grinding for months on end you can do that. If you want to pay your hard earned money to get there quicker then you can do that too. People who complain about others choosing to play a game in a different way just don't see the bigger picture...
You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.
Uh, did I miss something here? Seriously, I think there's a point or two in here that somehow got misinterpreted and went wildly awry.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I feel the need to point out when people try to hide nasty insults in an intelligent argument. Its a pet peeve of mine
maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use
Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer
It took me 2 seconds to find a legitimate website that is currently selling at a rate of 24 cents per million US. That was a theoretical argument. Obviously it isn't at 12 cents yet, but it will be if nothing is done about the bot saturation level.
I wouldn't just straight up swipe my CC and just buy all my gear, that would take out like 90% of the game for me, seems pointless.
However,
I have (and still do) buy and sell on the GAH, and pre 1.03 I had sold some stuff on the RMAH, put said funds gained from said sales into my Bnet account, then turned that balance into in game gold at a later date.
It does not bother me in any way if others want to just buy all their stuff outright, I have a hard time understanding why they would want to do that, but, whatever floats their boat I guess.
I also dont really see buying gear from others as "pay to win", last time I checked, getting an item from another player was called "trading" (in D2 it was for Runes/Gear/Forum Gold, in D3 it is for Gold/Gear/Cash).