Duping is rampant in USA servers now.

  • #21
    Quote from mannercookie

    SOMEONE with 10 posts post my scrshots from last night?

    (Edit: on third page of jsp thread, first+2nd page of battle.net thread)


    I don't JSP. I cannot find your post @Bnet because you weren't specific as to what forum you posted in.

    It really wouldn't matter because we've seen these screen-shots before. Small amounts of isolated cases involving a few to as many as 20-ish duplicate items. This falls well in line with what one would expect from roll-back scamming using a handful of IRL friends.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #22
    Quote from brx

    Quote from ruksak

    If duping was "rampant", we wouldn't be arguing about it, would we?


    It is a very isolated issue, typically only occurring due to the roll-back scam or the double drop bug.


    I really wish these alarmists would bring more evidence to the table before crying wolf.

    Are we arguing semantics? I think not. If this subject is taboo and too much for your feeling just don't come and read it jeez.


    There is nothing semantic about pointing out the use of alarming rhetoric like "RAMPANT" when clearly the issue is quite isolated and occurring in a fashion consistent with roll-back scams.

    The issue is clearly not "rampant". As I indicated above; If it were, we'd be seeing irrefutable evidence that people are mass-duping items ala Diablo 2.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #23
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from brx

    Quote from ruksak

    If duping was "rampant", we wouldn't be arguing about it, would we?


    It is a very isolated issue, typically only occurring due to the roll-back scam or the double drop bug.


    I really wish these alarmists would bring more evidence to the table before crying wolf.

    Are we arguing semantics? I think not. If this subject is taboo and too much for your feeling just don't come and read it jeez.


    There is nothing semantic about pointing out the use of alarming rhetoric like "RAMPANT" when clearly the issue is quite isolated and occurring in a fashion consistent with roll-back scams.

    The issue is clearly not "rampant". As I indicated above; If it were, we'd be seeing irrefutable evidence that people are mass-duping items ala Diablo 2.


    I decided to make these threads because I feel in a matter of weeks or even less we will start seeing the same problems that you currently see on the Asia-AH.

    Would you honestly prefer that 20-30x identical multiple items start popping up on the AH before blizzard does something about it?

    Like I said before, this seems to happen very frequently for top-tiered barb items (which are the most expensive items in the game generally at the higher tiers), I would be very happy if this was just rollback dupes since that means it won't turn into what I suspect of happening in the upcoming weeks.

    edit: PLENTY of evidence of mass-duping going on in Asia-AH, you can't ignore that. I don't see how it's not possible the same methods/dupers have migrated to USA servers and are now effectively selling things on RMAH and AH since Asia-AH doesn't offer RMAH.
  • #24
    Also I would like to add, I feel I have provided enough "evidence" that it at the minimum deserves a blue response to why there are duplicates of this item in the first place.

    If I had the time to spend countless more hours digging around looking for more dupes I would, but I was hoping this thread brings out more people who have realized they bought duped items.

    FWIW, the current lacunis seem to being sold primarily on the RMAH and people are buying it @ $250 looking to use or to re-sell on the GAH.

    The dupers are selling the lacunis on RMAH though, not hard for blizzard to look into this matter and explain the situation.
  • #25
    Quote from mannercookie

    I decided to make these threads because I feel in a matter of weeks or even less we will start seeing the same problems that you currently see on the Asia-AH.

    Would you honestly prefer that 20-30x identical multiple items start popping up on the AH before blizzard does something about it?

    Like I said before, if this was some isolated bug that seems to happen very frequently for top-tiered barb items (which are the most expensive items in the game generally at the higher tiers), I would be very happy since it won't turn into what I suspect of happening in the upcoming weeks.

    edit: PLENTY of evidence of mass-duping going on in Asia-AH, you can't ignore that. I don't see how it's not possible the same methods/dupers have migrated to USA servers and are now effectively selling things on RMAH and AH since Asia-AH doesn't offer RMAH.


    Let's obtain some clarity for the purpose of this discussion.

    First, I'll address the Asia issue. Though often refuted as racism, it is pretty common knowledge that Asian countries are the worst offenders within the realm of PC gaming exploitation.

    Asian countries went so far as to raid the Blizzard Corporate Headquarters in South Korea (I think it was SK?) over some server instability issues at launch, citing some bizarre federal trade statute. When in reality, they had assumed there was some form of discrimination going on against Asian people.

    It is for this reason that I've heard roll-backs are very easy to get in Asian countries, as Blizzard doesn't want them kicking the door in again, nor do they wish to be subject to any litigation under the oversight of foreign trade commissions.

    Now let's discuss what you're inferring here, in this thread. I take it you're suggesting that, in fact, there is a viable in-game method of duplicating items using some technique gleamed from the game client? i.e. someone/some people have figuered out how to duplicate items while in-game.

    To give you an example of why this is unlikely;

    Let's say out of all the players on the American realms, out of the hundreds of thousands/millions of active players......3 people have learned this exploit. Lets call them Steve, Rick and Bill.

    Steve, Rick and Bill have each learned to duplicate items at will. They can take the most godly IK Chest and produce copies of them at their leisure.

    Now, Steve, Rick and Bill each go to their local food-mart and purchase a 6-pack of Monster energy drink and spend all night duplicating items and redistributing them via the GAH and the RMAH.

    Just these three players, good 'ol Steve Rick and Bill, just these 3 players could produce hundreds upon thousands of duplicates in a given weekend, saturating the market with an avalanche of duplicate items.

    3 people and 2 days, that is all it would take for a true duping method to reach 'rampant' status.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #26
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from brx

    Quote from ruksak

    If duping was "rampant", we wouldn't be arguing about it, would we?


    It is a very isolated issue, typically only occurring due to the roll-back scam or the double drop bug.


    I really wish these alarmists would bring more evidence to the table before crying wolf.

    Are we arguing semantics? I think not. If this subject is taboo and too much for your feeling just don't come and read it jeez.


    There is nothing semantic about pointing out the use of alarming rhetoric like "RAMPANT" when clearly the issue is quite isolated and occurring in a fashion consistent with roll-back scams.

    The issue is clearly not "rampant". As I indicated above; If it were, we'd be seeing irrefutable evidence that people are mass-duping items ala Diablo 2.

    Continu arguing the title of this thread and keep ignoring its content and the op's posts. Go ahead.
    "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever." Shigeru Miyamoto-nintendo boss

    "I think it's hilarious because gamers won't be getting watered down anything.
    This is flat out Diablo 3." -Anonymous discussing the console version
  • #27
    Quote from mannercookie

    Also I would like to add, I feel I have provided enough "evidence" that it at the minimum deserves a blue response to why there are duplicates of this item in the first place.


    ........and explain the situation.


    That's not very wise, is it? For them to communicate so openly about such a sensitive issue?

    Remember the gem prices being so low? They never came out and directly addressed the issue, as was being demanded by countless people.

    Yet the issue was resolved, quietly, under the table. As should all sensitive issues like this.

    Why is it that some of you people demand full disclosure when doing so would not only serve no benefit to stopping the practice, but would actually harm there efforts?

    Some of you people sound like a killer asking questions of the police regarding a crime they had committed, hoping to gain some insight to use to their advantage.

    "We want answers. Tell us what you're doing." *so we can figure out how to keep getting away with it
    BurningRope#1322
  • #28
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from mannercookie

    I decided to make these threads because I feel in a matter of weeks or even less we will start seeing the same problems that you currently see on the Asia-AH.

    Would you honestly prefer that 20-30x identical multiple items start popping up on the AH before blizzard does something about it?

    Like I said before, if this was some isolated bug that seems to happen very frequently for top-tiered barb items (which are the most expensive items in the game generally at the higher tiers), I would be very happy since it won't turn into what I suspect of happening in the upcoming weeks.

    edit: PLENTY of evidence of mass-duping going on in Asia-AH, you can't ignore that. I don't see how it's not possible the same methods/dupers have migrated to USA servers and are now effectively selling things on RMAH and AH since Asia-AH doesn't offer RMAH.


    Let's obtain some clarity for the purpose of this discussion.

    First, I'll address the Asia issue. Though often refuted as racism, it is pretty common knowledge that Asian countries are the worst offenders within the realm of PC gaming exploitation.

    Asian countries went so far as to raid the Blizzard Corporate Headquarters in South Korea (I think it was SK?) over some server instability issues at launch, citing some bizarre federal trade statute. When in reality, they had assumed there was some form of discrimination going on against Asian people.

    It is for this reason that I've heard roll-backs are very easy to get in Asian countries, as Blizzard doesn't want them kicking the door in again, nor do they wish to be subject to any litigation under the oversight of foreign trade commissions.

    Now let's discuss what you're inferring here, in this thread. I take it you're suggesting that, in fact, there is a viable in-game method of duplicating items using some technique gleamed from the game client? i.e. someone/some people have figuered out how to duplicate items while in-game.

    To give you an example of why this is unlikely;

    Let's say out of all the players on the American realms, out of the hundreds of thousands/millions of active players......3 people have learned this exploit. Lets call them Steve, Rick and Bill.

    Steve, Rick and Bill have each learned to duplicate items at will. They can take the most godly IK Chest and produce copies of them at their leisure.

    Now, Steve, Rick and Bill each go to their local food-mart and purchase a 6-pack of Monster energy drink and spend all night duplicating items and redistributing them via the GAH and the RMAH.

    Just these three players, good 'ol Steve Rick and Bill, just these 3 players could produce hundreds upon thousands of duplicates in a given weekend, saturating the market with an avalanche of duplicate items.

    3 people and 2 days, that is all it would take for a true duping method to reach 'rampant' status.


    Okay first off you need to understand a few things.

    There aren't many groups of players who have the gold and are in search of 1billion-2billion tier barb gear, there are surely a fair amount of players who have the gold to buy these type of items but not groups of them that play together.

    I play with several other barbs who purchase the top-tier barb gears that are in that price range and we discuss, talk, shop items together on a daily basis since we don't want to be both bidding on the same item we see freshly posted to avoid driving up the price for each other. We all met through d2jsp.com, which is why such a group of barbarians playing together could take place.

    Now I've waited over a month and half to come public across forums about this issue because I did not want to raise alarms over something that could be simple just rollback dupes being exploited by a few people who will likely be banned anyway.

    This is much more than that, the rate at which top-tier barb items, I'm talking 1b+++ items are popping up and being duped is increasing at an alarming rate.

    Whether it is just a few people or not, they obviously have more resources than they did before and are starting to expand their operations because more and more items high-end tier barb items are starting to get duped.

    The bottom line is, whether you are correct or not about it being very isolated. Blizzard really needs to clarify the situation.
  • #29
    Quote from brx

    Continu arguing the title of this thread and keep ignoring its content and the op's posts. Go ahead.


    I've addressed every word he has said. Yet I hear crickets.......
    BurningRope#1322
  • #30
    Quote from mannercookie


    The bottom line is, whether you are correct or not about it being very isolated. Blizzard really needs to clarify the situation.


    No. They don't.

    They need to keep quiet and solve the issue, as I suspect they are. It would serve no purpose to clarify the issue with you, or any other player.

    Now I've waited over a month and half to come public across forums about this issue



    You are at least the 50th person to bring this up in such an alarmists manner over the last 4 months.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #31
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from brx

    Continu arguing the title of this thread and keep ignoring its content and the op's posts. Go ahead.


    I've addressed every word he has said. Yet I hear crickets.......


    Duped items destroy the game's economy, hence the game.

    It's almost like you want this to happen from your replies...
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from mannercookie

    Also I would like to add, I feel I have provided enough "evidence" that it at the minimum deserves a blue response to why there are duplicates of this item in the first place.


    ........and explain the situation.


    That's not very wise, is it? For them to communicate so openly about such a sensitive issue?

    Remember the gem prices being so low? They never came out and directly addressed the issue, as was being demanded by countless people.

    Yet the issue was resolved, quietly, under the table. As should all sensitive issues like this.

    Why is it that some of you people demand full disclosure when doing so would not only serve no benefit to stopping the practice, but would actually harm there efforts?

    Some of you people sound like a killer asking questions of the police regarding a crime they had committed, hoping to gain some insight to use to their advantage.

    "We want answers. Tell us what you're doing." *so we can figure out how to keep getting away with it


    This would make sense if items stopped getting duped a month and half ago, while gems got stopped being duped within a week or two.

    Like I said above, I didn't bother saying anything when this first happened months ago. Now that there are duped items all over the place (Multiple "isolated issues"), there is a problem and it needs to be addressed before more and more duped items show up in the AH.
  • #32
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from mannercookie

    The bottom line is, whether you are correct or not about it being very isolated. Blizzard really needs to clarify the situation.


    No. They don't.

    They need to keep quiet and solve the issue, as I suspect they are. It would serve no purpose to clarify the issue with you, or any other player.

    Now I've waited over a month and half to come public across forums about this issue



    You are at least the 50th person to bring this up in such an alarmists manner over the last 4 months.


    I thought these were very isolated cases? Now your telling me I'm the 50th person to bring up cases of duping in the last 4 months?

    Clarify please?

    edit: can post scrshots now

    Scrshot of our 2x lacunis + dupers lacuni for sell on AH (time stamp of my desktop on bot right corner)

    http://i.imgur.com/2B3Ec.jpg

    Scrshot of Dupers lacuni for sale for $250 at same time (time stamp again on bot right corner)

    http://i.imgur.com/BCjKb.jpg
  • #33
    Quote from mannercookie



    This would make sense if items stopped getting duped a month and half ago, while gems got stopped being duped within a week or two.

    Like I said above, I didn't bother saying anything when this first happened months ago. Now that there are duped items all over the place (Multiple "isolated issues"), there is a problem and it needs to be addressed before more and more duped items show up in the AH.


    I simply cannot explain this to you any more clear than I have.

    If even just three people had figured out how to duplicate items in-game, the situation would fast become undeniable and truly rampant on a pandemic scale.


    Just 3 people could literally inundate the market with hundreds, if not thousands, of duplicate items over just one weekend.

    The issue is a rollback scam.

    Certain smaller scale issues (as the Prowlers you cited) may well just be a double drop bug that has been clearly documented as real. An unpredictable, "lucky" RNG bug.

    These are isolated issues and I feel confident in my terminology because the amounts we're seeing are well in-step with what would be expected if a handful of IRL friends set out to roll-back scam Blizzard so that they would make a hefty, yet one time, profit run.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #34
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from mannercookie

    The bottom line is, whether you are correct or not about it being very isolated. Blizzard really needs to clarify the situation.


    No. They don't.

    They need to keep quiet and solve the issue, as I suspect they are. It would serve no purpose to clarify the issue with you, or any other player.

    Of course they do, for the sake of respect over their player base; except if they still have not identified how the duping is done which is probable, or if they are not able to track the people doing money over it which seems impossible.

    No one talking about it would be the best interest of both blizzard and the dupers atm. But it might blow to their face the very day the duping method is leaked and the rmah goes to the toilet...
    "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever." Shigeru Miyamoto-nintendo boss

    "I think it's hilarious because gamers won't be getting watered down anything.
    This is flat out Diablo 3." -Anonymous discussing the console version
  • #35
    Quote from mannercookie

    I thought these were very isolated cases? Now your telling me I'm the 50th person to bring up cases of duping in the last 4 months?

    Clarify please?



    ISOLATED; Having minimal contact or little in common with others.

    Though occurring multiple times, these cases do not share a common point of origin, nor are the culprits related in any way.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #36
    Quote from mannercookie

    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from brx

    Continu arguing the title of this thread and keep ignoring its content and the op's posts. Go ahead.


    I've addressed every word he has said. Yet I hear crickets.......


    Duped items destroy the game's economy, hence the game.


    Uhm......no.
    I play the game, and don't participate in the economy. The economy can keel over and die, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then Blizzard would make this game actually good when it comes to rewards.
  • #37
    TBH when it comes to EU/US the 'gem duping' is probably quite well explained by roll back scams too and a bit of market manipulation, e.g.

    1. Spread rumours of gem duping
    2. People panic and sell lower than normal to cash out before prices drop too much.
    3. Maket is flooded so prices drop even more.
    4. People spreading the initial rumour wait till market hits bottom and buy loads of gems at cut down price.
    5. .....
    6. Profit

    See recent attempt to do the same with brimstone.

    People as a whole are stupid.
  • #38
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from mannercookie

    I thought these were very isolated cases? Now your telling me I'm the 50th person to bring up cases of duping in the last 4 months?

    Clarify please?



    ISOLATED; Having minimal contact or little in common with others.

    Though occurring multiple times, these cases do not share a common point of origin, nor are the culprits related in any way.


    Okay as much as I enjoy talking to you about this matter, if you routinely searched for 1b+ barb items to upgrade into or resell with groups of people also doing the same thing everyday constantly throughout the day, you would understand what we are seeing.

    I have responded to you enough times and it's going nowhere except you citing me definitions of the English language.

    good luck to you sir.

    edit: there is plenty of evidence out there, it's not hard to see. I'm sure some other ppl who don't want duping to get out of control can help show more evidence for the skeptics.
  • #39
    Also the last game I played where duping was endemic the top tier items were being given away in the '00s as they became worthless, I've yet to see that happen.
  • #40
    Quote from Maffia

    TBH when it comes to EU/US the 'gem duping' is probably quite well explained by roll back scams too and a bit of market manipulation, e.g.

    1. Spread rumours of gem duping
    2. People panic and sell lower than normal to cash out before prices drop too much.
    3. Maket is flooded so prices drop even more.
    4. People spreading the initial rumour wait till market hits bottom and buy loads of gems at cut down price.
    5. .....
    6. Profit


    This is the most ridiculous explanation for the low gem prices that I've ever seen. And: it doesn't add up. Step 2 would only happen if thousands of people sit on 100 radiant star gems. Even if your theory is true, lots and lots of people would have benefited from this because step 4) is where everyone I know got lots of dirt cheap gems. I'd like to see *any* proof for this theory. Besides, I don't see how just spreading rumors gets prices down to 300k (Asia AH).
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