Increasing droprates of legendaries/set items is bad...

  • #21
    Eh, I don't like the argument that the game doesn't need to have a good economy.

    Mostly because it simply doesn't need to have a bad economy either.
    There's plenty of reasonable ways to fix this.
    Remove bad affix combinations, introduce item sinks, etc.

    either way you look at it, giant inflation is bad.
    And there's nothing elitist about thinking that.
  • #22
    "Increasing droprates of legendaries/sets is bad.... for me. And probably to the few who agree with me."

    There, fixed that for ya ;)

    Despite what my personal feelings are for this change (I like it, but let's not go in there, to each their own), I think it's pretty clear that the majority of the playerbase (and a lot of D2 nostalgic pfans) likes this change. I'm not saying you're not allowed to disagree, I'm just being realistic.

    And that's probably the reason Blizzard is considering it (considering because it's still in PTR). They can't please everyone, but they'll definitely try to please as many people as they can.

    To be honest, I feel that the most hardcore players can still make great use of the improved droprates to make sure they get almost perfectly rolled legendaries before the PvP patch hits (instead of only botters and RM spenders being able to buy those for 1-2 billion gold). It's a win-win situation. And if they're perfectly geared then they can farm MP10 for insanely better drops and insanely fast Paragon lvlup rate.
  • #23
    Quote from constipationnow

    they haven't enough item-sinks/gold-sinks etc. in order to keep the market in check. why does everyone feel entitled to the best items in the game? everyone cant be the best. this wasn't even the case in D2. you focus too much on the color of the item instead of thinking objectively on your own character. How strong is he/she, really?

    1. Why can't everyone be the best? It's a game after all, why do you have to create such a strong hierarchy.
    2. It's not so much about being the best, it's also about the gap. Look at the following scenarios: (a) good player has 100k dps, "the best" players have 120k-130k dps. (b.) good players have 30k-40k dps, the best players have 120k-130k dps. In my opinion, scenario (a) is much better than (b.) for a game. I'm fine with very dedicated players being better, both through gear and through skill, but I don't need such a huge gap just to feel that I accomplished something.



    it's not we whom are selfish. i just feel that the current market is crashing. and i know many people care, they just dont squeek like jay wilson said. the AH is a part of diablo. and the AH existed in D2, just in a different shape/form. and anyone who played D2 multiplayer and traded at least one single time was part of that system. deal with it,.

    How can you say that the market in D3 is crashing and then even mention D2? D2 had the most broken market I can imagine, a currency that was being duped but otherwise un-obtainable because it didn't drop anymore at some point, a small set of legendaries and rares (and runes) with value, everything else worthless.
    In addition, a game where the best chance of getting a valuable drop was through using an OP class/build (fire sorc, hammadin) together with a hack (the famous maphack, which Blizz never really managed to ban effectively).

    A game without a gear+gold sink inevitably moves towards a state where a small number of perfect items are incredibly expensive, and any other drop is not worth putting it up for sale. The drop rate doesn't really change this situation. It only changes the gear quality at which this happens.
    Blizzards original policy of making good items rare has changed now. They keep adding slightly better gear, so that current best-in-slot gear looses value over time, and thus provide (a) an item sink, (b.) a gold sink through the AH cut and (c.) a larger chance of finding an upgrade long into the game.

    If you look at the gold value in $, it usually rises after a patch, and then slowly drops down. Same with gem prices. In my opinion, an increasing gold price is a sign that people are buying gear, and it's also something that benefits your RMAH business. Now, this gold price increase happened although with each patch, Blizzard increased the chance of getting good drops, added better gear, and made the game easier. So all those things that you say are bad for the game, actually improved the economy.
    My monk Vin
  • #24
    The problems are not that the game is too hard or too easy

    but while we are on that note. If you use the auction house the game is too easy, if you dont use the auction house the game is too hard.---- if that is the problem then its not one that is resolvable by increasing or decreasing drop rates.

    If you increase drops then then the game becomes easier for those using the auction house.---but its already too easy if you do.

    If you increase the drops then the game easier for those not using the auction house---and they are happy.

    The biggest problem is UNIFORMITY of legendary drop rates

    Probability of Awesome legendary=0.00001

    Probability of crappy legendary=0.00001

    eg. A Skorn should not have the same drop rate as Frostburns.
  • #25
    Should be viewed as fun for the player. Any secondary AH effects should not be intended.
  • #26
    Most of the OP very long post was either restatement of known facts, personal opinion restated as a fact or just misleading argumentation. I have quoted the end, which shows how derailed the whole post is:
    Quote from constipationnow

    Part 6: Final; Time Vs Money

    RMAH is dying. It might not bother some of you (read part 2), but to us willing to sell items in order to earn some money (motivational factor to keep farming). And what's wrong with buying items for real money? it's their choice, their money. They waste their real money on digital items. And we waste precious time to properly farm those items. It's Time vs Money. Win-Win.

    RMAH is an addition to the GAME. RMAH is not the GAME. There should be no balancing done that revolves around RMAH.

    If you want to earn money, go get a job. I dont care how much virtual money you can make, or even how much real $ or EUR you get from playing RMAH. Real job will pay for your retirement fund, health care and other social benefits, if your country has such thing.

    PS. Get out of my game!
  • #27
    Quote from Ruppgu
    I would much prefer them to increase the quality of items while making less drop.


    I agree that improving the quality of legendary drops would have been a better option than to increase the number of drops. I hate the fact that when I see a legendary/set drop, the first thing I think is "Ok, it's going to be a crap one anyway". And 22 times out of 23, I've been correct. They did increase the quality of rares though, which is good but maybe they could have also reduced rare drop chances so ID'ing them wouldn't be such a chore. Maybe rares should be less random too.

    The concept of magic find is one cause of this problem and Blizzard has realized this because they hinted at removing magic find from items when NV was released. Magic finding enables hardcore players to have a lot higher chance to find legendary items than casuals. Casual players might not even realize the importance of magic finding and anyway, if you are "poor" as many casuals are, you can't really afford to have a lot of magic find in decent farming gear. This leads to a situation where a casual player killing 1000 monsters per hour with 100% MF will find 1 legendary in the same amount of time than it takes a hardcore player killing 3000 monsters per hour with 350% MF to find 7 legendaries.

    If we'd remove MF from the equation above, then the hardcore player would only find three times as many legendaries as the casual one. I think this kind of difference would be much better as then you could increase the legendary drop rates without increasing them too much for the hardcore players. It would also be easier to justify buffing the stats of legendaries (less randomness etc.) because it would take even the hardcore players a lot more time to find them.

    TL;DR: Buff legendaries instead of increasing their drop rate and remove MF so that casual and hardcore gamers won't have such a large gap in the chance of finding them.
  • #29
    Here is how Blizzard will fix Diablo 3 ...





    Get rid of the AH, go back to D2 trading.




    AH = Blizzard trying to take the ideas websites had in d2 and trying to make a profit off it, in order to make an even better profit blizzard made drop rates insanely low for legendaries, and made afix roles on items complete crap, which pushed the prices way up. People talk about how the AH is flooded with legendaries (a lot of which are pretty shitty and you know it), but d2 was flooded with Uniques just the same, the only reason people didn't know was because there was no AH. Another huge reason d2 wwas flooded was because of duping but that is a different matter. All of you playing this game, complaining about the ECONOMY, have no place in a diablo game. THIS IS NOT AUCTION HOUSE 3, it is Diablo 3. We should all rise up against blizzard, tell them to get their hands out of our pockets, give us a true single player (I play MP, but I would like to be able to play in an airport on my laptop with out paying for inet), and let us play the game.
  • #30
    I, Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, The God, decided that high legendary item drop is bad.

    it turns game into a super-market. legendaries or best set items should be so rare that they are not commonly sold at market - at any price. player who has ultimate luck (and perhaps non mf-based luck, like in case of diablo II runes) that actually get one of those, should be inclined to keep it. or EXCHANGE it for something of equal value, if dropped item doesn't fit class needs. or sell it at RMAH.

    players should NOT sell those en masse in AH, not by any price. players mortals call "the best" are best geared ones. they use a VI skill combination, a III passives and a billion denarius worth equipment. so, basically anyone investing enough money in equipment fits this description. paragon levels are a good measure of time person spent playing, are somewhat rewarding. when line is drawn, they are just a way blizzard used to buy time, as is, for example PTR.

    PTR is quite simple change of few numbers, ok, some programming involved, and the rest goes to supposed "testing". which proves newly achieved balance? as the CLXXV% free dps for DH turret, for example? second, and even third turret (with passive, as The God understand) available? without criticals, it's still forty-fifty thousand dps for average DH per turret - surely, this is well though balancing CONCLUSION after the first round of testing (initial numbers were lower)

    back on the drop rate, if it is sufficiently high, best items in the game surely leak to AH, become common commodity for everyone, eventually even deflating in price - finally losing the purpose they were created in the first place. not every plebeian is inclined to posses one of those - with the great power, comes great... boredom, as everyone can have exactly the same build - appropriately, since everyone has the same portrait already.

    STILL, THE GOD DID NOT LOSE FAITH! although many initial concepts are flawed in design, through divine wisdom they can be corrected, with little resources and time. come to mine website belonging to me Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, The God and see how! obviously NOT RIGHT NOW! it isn't finished yet! but soon, The God will devote more divine time to finish the scriptures (basically rewriting large amounts of text, mortals doesn't need to know how many A-IV pages in word processor)

    The God was an emperor, game designer, balancer, programmer, an author, historian and historical figure, among the other things. The God knows what he's doing.

    As for 1.05, Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, The God, declare that it is better to stay on 'PTR'. permanently.
    A proud and fearless leader and only member of the "Save the Diablo III" project
    I have been a game designer, modder and balancer. Link below is to my blog, where i discuss flaws of this game and offering solutions.
    YOU can help this cause by sharing a link in your signature! Please do, if you like my ideas

    http://savediablo3.wix.com/diablo3#!home/mainPage
  • #31
    Quote from irie009

    Here is how Blizzard will fix Diablo 3 ...





    Get rid of the AH, go back to D2 trading.




    AH = Blizzard trying to take the ideas websites had in d2 and trying to make a profit off it, in order to make an even better profit blizzard made drop rates insanely low for legendaries, and made afix roles on items complete crap, which pushed the prices way up. People talk about how the AH is flooded with legendaries (a lot of which are pretty shitty and you know it), but d2 was flooded with Uniques just the same, the only reason people didn't know was because there was no AH. Another huge reason d2 wwas flooded was because of duping but that is a different matter. All of you playing this game, complaining about the ECONOMY, have no place in a diablo game. THIS IS NOT AUCTION HOUSE 3, it is Diablo 3. We should all rise up against blizzard, tell them to get their hands out of our pockets, give us a true single player (I play MP, but I would like to be able to play in an airport on my laptop with out paying for inet), and let us play the game.



    good idea, but enough about this always online "i wanna play on my laptop when im in the airport!!!" business, if you cant find something to do during an 8 hour flight apart from diablo there's a problem with you
    Working with adobe and/or java is like pushing a paper clip against a building and expecting it to move...


    Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
    Final Fantasy 7
  • #32
    Quote from constipationnow

    1.0.4
    tier 1 best items in the game
    tier 2 very good
    tier 3 good
    tier 4 OK
    tier 5 crap

    1.0.5 new equilibrium

    tier X (newly found, better than tier 1)
    tier 1 very good
    tier 2 good
    tier 3 OK
    tier 4 crap
    tier 5 crappier than crap, probably vendor.


    I don't think this is true. The stat potentials right now are exactly the same as they will be after patch, for top tiered items that is. It will make the tier 1 items more common, but it will not make a new tier better than the current top tier.
  • #33
    Short answer : they had to fix an absurd and frustrating itemisation wich raised a lot of complaints.

    What better way than to improve the drop rate of legendaries, since they reworked them to increase their appeal in a previous patch? Why go to all this trouble, with funky procs and visual effects if there is no one to enjoy them? This seems like the most logical way to go.

    Sure the economy may change, but if their auction house system is so cool ( since they dedicated so much love to this feature and thought of making the game enjoyable only aftewards), it will survive.

    There'll probably be players who complain they can't sell items for astronomical sums anymore and that they lost control on the economy... But I find myself somewhat deaf to their plea.
  • #34
    ermm ok, let me start of by saying that i get your arguments. i understand that doubling the droprates for legendary will affect the AH.

    But please, for just this one time, look at it from the eyes from other players who have NOT been lucky farming items.

    I see myself as a huge fan of the diablo franchise, playing all games en expansions etc... ever since the start.

    I followed D3's development from day one on a daily basis....

    Then the game finally came out after years of waiting....

    Since its launch on may 15th, i've found a total of 4 legendaries, played 600+hours and was able to sell only one of those legendaries for a meager 12milion. Witch obviously isnt that much if you look at todays prices for high end items....

    Where the hell,in all of this, is a dedicated player like me finding joy in playing the game for 600+ hours without being rewarded every now and then???

    i understand they shouldnt drop legendaries like crazy!!! but i mean common!!!!! give me a break. Does blizz really expect me to farm till im practicly blind or do they want me to find the game interesting and exciting??

    truth be told, i kinda gave up on the game a few weeks ago... and went for GW2, and i believe blizz had it coming. no one is willing to spend countless hours in a game and not get some sort of benefit out of it.

    i'd rather find all of my gear myself after countless farming then having to spend millions on the ah. the economy is of no interest to me if i cant be a part of it! ('cause how can you be a part of it if you never have anything to sell or no gold to buy anything!)....

    so im glad they're gonna double the drope rate. May make me come back to the game once 1.05 is online... We'll see how this patch makes the game turn out for me...
  • #35
    Quote from zeroRooter

    Quote from irie009

    Here is how Blizzard will fix Diablo 3 ...





    Get rid of the AH, go back to D2 trading.




    AH = Blizzard trying to take the ideas websites had in d2 and trying to make a profit off it, in order to make an even better profit blizzard made drop rates insanely low for legendaries, and made afix roles on items complete crap, which pushed the prices way up. People talk about how the AH is flooded with legendaries (a lot of which are pretty shitty and you know it), but d2 was flooded with Uniques just the same, the only reason people didn't know was because there was no AH. Another huge reason d2 wwas flooded was because of duping but that is a different matter. All of you playing this game, complaining about the ECONOMY, have no place in a diablo game. THIS IS NOT AUCTION HOUSE 3, it is Diablo 3. We should all rise up against blizzard, tell them to get their hands out of our pockets, give us a true single player (I play MP, but I would like to be able to play in an airport on my laptop with out paying for inet), and let us play the game.



    good idea, but enough about this always online "i wanna play on my laptop when im in the airport!!!" business, if you cant find something to do during an 8 hour flight apart from diablo there's a problem with you


    I fly twice a week for work, I live in airports. What I do with my time is my business.
  • #36
    tl;dr

    I want my legendaries
  • #37
    Quote from UberMey

    tl;dr

    I want my legendaries

    This.
  • #38
    I have a question actually, I know that. Blizzard said they were doubling legendary drops but does that mean they r doubling set drops aswell? I dint know they were the same thing
  • #39
    Quote from Attacus123

    I have a question actually, I know that. Blizzard said they were doubling legendary drops but does that mean they r doubling set drops aswell? I dint know they were the same thing

    There was a blue post specifically mentioning both legendary and set drops will have their drop chance doubled. CBA to look it up for you though.
  • #40
    People want legendaries...

    Eventhough they don't know anything about mf .. or care about mf... don't care about character min-maxing.. or upgrades... they dont know about efficiency of farming.. or of having mf gear in conjunction with paragon levels.. because they're still paragon 1-5...

    They wanna click into a game, click unto a mob... it goes splat.. and out drops a legen.... yo !


    When people say... OMG LULZZZ guisssssss... I never found a legendary before ! I'm so unlucky !

    All im hearing is... "oooh.... i have 0 mf on, i dont know shit about anything.. I don't know anything about farming efficiently... but .. but .. where are my bis perfect items!"

    ANYBODY i ever played with, who actually knows alot about this game as I do, and wears sufficient mf/paragon and farms efficiently enough.. has gotten MASSES of legendaries... and lastly... you just have to play more.. thats the whole fucking point.. grinding... D3 is a grind game.. :) Not instant gratification game.

    People are dumb.
  • #41
    Quote from MasterFischer

    People want legendaries...

    Eventhough they don't know anything about mf .. or care about mf... don't care about character min-maxing.. or upgrades... they dont know about efficiency of farming.. or of having mf gear in conjunction with paragon levels.. because they're still paragon 1-5...

    They wanna click into a game, click unto a mob... it goes splat.. and out drops a legen.... yo !


    When people say... OMG LULZZZ guisssssss... I never found a legendary before ! I'm so unlucky !

    All im hearing is... "oooh.... i have 0 mf on, i dont know shit about anything.. I don't know anything about farming efficiently... but .. but .. where are my bis perfect items!"

    ANYBODY i ever played with, who actually knows alot about this game as I do, and wears sufficient mf/paragon and farms efficiently enough.. has gotten MASSES of legendaries... and lastly... you just have to play more.. thats the whole fucking point.. grinding... D3 is a grind game.. :) Not instant gratification game.

    People are dumb.


    Yes, because everyone saying the legendary drop rate is too low wants to have a legendary every time they kill a monster. :facepalmsmile: Like there is no in between area, only the extremes.

    The problem is the gap between casuals and the hardcore farmers. Blizzard should buff the drop rates for the casuals so that the hardcore gamers wouldn't get such a big edge. Of course someone is going interpret this as me saying that "casuals should find as many good items as hardcore farmers" but whatever. :kiss:
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