You have yet to supply a single indication where this game is MMO'ish as you claim.
Taken from Websters;
MMORPG: massively multiplayer online role-playing game
So based off that definition, can you tell me how many copies of Diablo 3 were sold? With a player base as large as the series had to work off of, you can expect a game company to anticipate a large player base. It is only logical they would draw from what worked, that being WoW. If you are asking for specific instances of influenced mechanics in the game you can take the AH into consideration, the cheesy art, the dialogue set to entertain 13 year olds, and maybe even the leveling system. I am sure there are plenty more observations one could make if they wanted to pursue it.
You have yet to supply a single indication where this game is MMO'ish as you claim.
Taken from Websters;
MMORPG: massively multiplayer online role-playing game
So based off that definition, can you tell me how many copies of Diablo 3 were sold? With a player base as large as the series had to work off of, you can expect a game company to anticipate a large player base. It is only logical they would draw from what worked, that being WoW. If you are asking for specific instances of influenced mechanics in the game you can take the AH into consideration, the cheesy art, the dialogue set to entertain 13 year olds, and maybe even the leveling system. I am sure there are plenty more observations one could make if they wanted to pursue it.
The art isn't cheesy. The color pallet is larger. The AH was required for how the Diablo 3 item base was. There wasn't supposed to be "BiS items" like in D2. Everyone knew the BiS items for there class in D2. D3 was more about randomizing items to give more choices.
The dialogue... I mean of all the things to critique?
The leveling system... How? Lol. It uses the same leveling system of almost every game - kill monsters, get experience. The only difference is quests give experience and impact the storyline instead of just impacting the game/story line like its predecessor.
People are forgetting one key fact about the AH. The RMAH. Blizzard has a vested interest it making this game as good as it can possibly be and keeping people playing it. If anything the only thing a BoA does is hurt their profits. Honestly i'm kind of glad they'll have a couple of BoA's. It gives people who actually accomplished something harder a reward that others can't simply purchase using RMAH/Gold.
The new team that brought us D3 has done it again, the AH was part of what destroyed the games economy in the first place and now to attempt to make up for it they are introducing BOA items in the next patch to attempt to fix this. Way to WoWify diablo.
So, you complain that the economy is destroyed, yet you are whining that people can't farm the IM for days on end and fill up the AH with the rings?
I'm confused.
Also, D2 attempted BoA without the actual rule being in place with the anni and torch. They didn't want people farming to trade so they made them unable to be put in trade windows, and only drop traded (Which of course cut down on trading because of people scamming).
You can't ever have an AH in an ARPG, it just ruins the trading and itemization, along with their crappy and useless affixes that you find like Health Globe Radius Pickup. Useless.
People are forgetting one key fact about the AH. The RMAH. Blizzard has a vested interest it making this game as good as it can possibly be and keeping people playing it.
That they do. Understandable, but I don't think it has had a good influence on the game.
People are forgetting one key fact about the AH. The RMAH. Blizzard has a vested interest it making this game as good as it can possibly be and keeping people playing it.
That they do. Understandable, but I don't think it has had a good influence on the game.
Right because having many more prefix/affix's on items is a bad thing with more diversity. In D2 you wore Uniques/Runewords. Thats it. Very few set pieces. There was a tiered BiS list for every class/spec. Hell some items where required for certain specs. The point is - more items, game's still RNG, and D2's trade system was terrible. How can you solve this efficiently? Auction House. There really isn't any other way. Yes it makes finding items less worthwhile. But ARPGs are very gear dependent. You need to be able to find gear. When you add that many different variations on equipment your never guaranteed to find upgrades for your character.
(News flash, you weren't in D2 either. You'd be lucky to find a good set/unique in a 2-4 hour Meph farm w/ maphack.)
The problem is people don't want to accept the changes because its different from how Diablo and Diablo 2 where.
Strictly speaking thats one of the reasons i'll never like Torchlight(Fate+)2. Yes the team designed alot of D1/D2 but they went a completely seperate direction into the single player experience. Where for alot of people (myself included) enjoyed the ability to play with friends and randoms. I'm by no means bashing the game.
People need to realize that D3 is its own game. Its not its predecessors. Already within 4 months of release we've seen massive changes to boost the replayability of Inferno and they've announced plans to further develop the end game content. What more can you expect from them?
The point is - more items, game's still RNG, and D2's trade system was terrible. How can you solve this efficiently? Auction House. There really isn't any other way. Yes it makes finding items less worthwhile..
That's it, that's where you stop. That's when you realize that it is a bad decision because it makes the game less fun. There are pros, there are cons, yes, but ultimately, a game should be fun. That's all, that's how it will be measured. This is not a socioeconomic experiment, it's a mechanism for entertainment.
The AH brings with it all of these crummy consequences and restrictions and I just don't think it was worth it.
The point is - more items, game's still RNG, and D2's trade system was terrible. How can you solve this efficiently? Auction House. There really isn't any other way. Yes it makes finding items less worthwhile..
That's it, that's where you stop. That's when you realize that it is a bad decision because it makes the game less fun. There are pros, there are cons, yes, but ultimately, a game should be fun. That's all, that's how it will be measured. This is not a socioeconomic experiment, it's a mechanism for entertainment.
The AH brings with it all of these crummy consequences and restrictions and I just don't think it was worth it.
It's fun for a ton of people. Just because it's not fun to some specificaly (mostly because they wanted a piece of the "awesome loot pie") doesn't mean the game is bad for everyone.
While it's not fun for you a lot of the "hardcore gamers" that wanted to be awesome and rich as the top-notch players, for the casual playerbase that's playing Normal/Nightmare (I had a few friends in this category), it's "the most awesome game they ever played" (I quote).
And I honestly understand you. I really wanted to see a whole IK set drop to me. I'd trade the AH for that feeling any day. But it's just not happening. Is the game less fun to me because of that? Well that depends entirely on my mindset and I'm a pretty positive guy.
The one (1, uno, ein) item they have said they will do this with is an item that will need a LOT of work to get. It's supposed to be more of a feat from completing the "event" than it is going to be a fight against the AH.
Please, I understand that you want to complain, but when you start complaining before there is any real explanation on it is just stupid. For all we know it may be a ring that is purely cosmetic. Or opens a story line arc.
Diablo 3 is not in a MMO designed game... the social / online aspects of D3 are the same as D2 with a new skin.
Chat channel? yep both games, trade channels? yep both games.. multiplayer games? yep both games... Multi-player with thousands? nope
The auction house, yeah lets see here.. how much selling for in game and real life currency happened in D2? just as much, difference is Blizzard provided you a simpler and safer means to do so...
Alrighty the story line.. well you claim it is so linear which would throw out the MMO aspect again which have to be more broad, or the lack of open world exploration again a ding against MMO aspect..
the whole "adding a BoA item is ruining the game"...yeah and the sky is falling too. They have repeatedly with each patch listened to the player base one what to add and change, when the game was released it was released on the player base demands and bitching and ranting and whining from Diablo 2 and beta...
You have yet to supply a single indication where this game is MMO'ish as you claim.
Cooldown on potions?
Huge cooldown on skills?
Time to cast town portal?
Time to identify items?
Time to craft? (gems/items)
Auction house? (killed the trade games which I loved in D2, it also helped me build my friend list) Also it killed the singleplayer experience for most players. Everyone seems to farm gear just to sell them on the AH.
Linking items? there is no more: "come I show u some cool item" . Dead social aspect .
Online only? Really? There was HUGE difference in D2 between singleplayer and battle.net .. huge , I feel NONE in D3.
Belial , wtf is that? huge boss , just like ALL mmos are .
This is not a Diablo game , it's a crap out of WoW developers .
So you say it is an MMO cause they put craft timers, cool downs on potions, and cast times on a town portal?
Really that makes it an mmo... never mind you do not have thousands all playing together in the same place... And the Auction House...of course that is so very MMO.. cause no one ever sat in chat hawking their junk for hours in D2... oh wait.. you did if you wanted to sell it... And so instead of playing the game you sat there being a shop keeper.
Yeah soooo MMO to put in an Auction House for players to sell their stuff and still be able to play the game. And the always online aspect..we all know this is a DRM, not an MMO or other BS excuse, it is to counter all those jackasses that hacked to hell and back in D2
And as above poster pointed out... Skills that deal big damage should not be spammed, running around casting poison nova non-stop and watching everything fall dead or tossing out curses non-stop getting everything to die for fighting themselves with no cooldowns removes any talents or skill management..
Claiming D3 is an MMO is just wrong, the only similar aspects are they both have RPG in them, that is it... 1 has thousands all in 1 open world location together.. D3 has up to 4 people in 1 small place...that is it...not an MMORPG
It's fun for a ton of people. Just because it's not fun to some specificaly (mostly because they wanted a piece of the "awesome loot pie") doesn't mean the game is bad for everyone.
While it's not fun for you a lot of the "hardcore gamers" that wanted to be awesome and rich as the top-notch players, for the casual playerbase that's playing Normal/Nightmare (I had a few friends in this category), it's "the most awesome game they ever played" (I quote).
And I honestly understand you. I really wanted to see a whole IK set drop to me. I'd trade the AH for that feeling any day. But it's just not happening. Is the game less fun to me because of that? Well that depends entirely on my mindset and I'm a pretty positive guy.
Most people don't get this - that THEY are the source of their own misery. They want to project it on loot, or the AH, or anything else.
I wanted a whole Zunimassas set to drop for me too, but then I had a hard reality check.... I didn't have a whole anything set drop for my Necromancer in D2. I never found a Zod rune, in fact I'm pretty sure I never found anything above Thul or Ort (rough estimate because my memory on that bit is foggy). But who cares? It didn't make D2 a bad game and it certainly isn't making D3 a bad game.
Every single bit of the negativity stems from inaccurate memories of D2. Every bit of it. The whole idea that "I should be able to find all my own gear" is a total manifestation of those incorrect memories. Sure, it may have been a bit easier in D2 to find all your own gear, but people here pass it off as if it was the majority of players which certainly wasn't true. If everyone were finding all their own gear then sites like D2JSP wouldn't have existed and the extensive amount of trade games would have been entirely unnecessary and duping would have been pointless. But all those things existed and that's a surefire sign that there was a demand for gear "transactions" because the average person wasn't finding all their own gear. Common sense is hard, I realize, but people on these forums really need to make friends with it because the elaborateness of their retardation is reaching epic proportions.
I love how this complaint is coming out as if there aren't already BOA items existing in the game.
But that's 'kay. Guess what, the ring is a reward for doing essentially a long quest. Everyone is going to get the ring sooner or later. Maybe you expect that your legendary ring reward not be bind to account so that you can sell it. But guess what, even if the ring has stats and is a good item to have it would have NO VALUE because the market would be saturated with them and everyone would be able to get their own anyway.
Get over it.
There's no BoA gear... well, not yet anyway. And I am so sick of hearing the AH used to defend game design decisions. The AH was a massive mistake in my opinion and I don't care how the AH will be affected at all, ever. Admittedly this is just my opinion, not necessarily an absolute.
Also gtfo out with this way to WoWify Diablo criticism. What does that even mean? I would love to hear someone expand on that complaint.
...really?
1. The artistic style of the game.
2. The AH.
3. The compulsive need to "balance" this game which, last I checked, is an ARPG, and requires no such balance. In fact, it just makes the game less fun.
4. Forcing multi-player down out throats with an online-always policy, as if it could not have been implemented any other way.
5. Upcoming BoA gear, if only one piece.
WoW aside, it's obvious that an MMO mentality has had a major influence on this game.
No, no TL2 is greatness. It's pretty much a person who played diablo 2 and liked it next step forward. I mean I've had it for... 4? or so days now not to mention i didn't get to play it today and i invested 27 hours into it. Boss battles are much more than Diablo 3. Really the only thing it lacks in... or actually does terrible in is storytelling but 95% of people don't give a crap about the story either way.
Ohh and yes I do fully expect to be called out as a liar here.
Well, I said I wasn't expecting greatness, doesn't mean I'm not hoping for it I'll know soon enough.
pretty sure I agree with everything you've said.
Sadly TL 2's downfall (unless they've changed it) will be the console interface where you can just hack the shit out of the game and stack your character. HOPEFULLY that doesn't show since its going to be multi-player, single player thats fine.
D2 had TONS of balancing changes added to the game. Or did you think the game started out as patch 1.13d?
The AH didn't break Diablo by any means, if anything it just made trading easier (which could be a pain in the ass in D2). But the core difference between it was in D2 you knew what you where trying to trade for, such as perf occy, vamps ect. In D3 the item structure is more obscure so player based trading wouldn't work, the items have too much variance.
It's funny that you mention multi-player. So tired of this arguement. D2 and D3 where both meant to be played as multiplayer games. Playing D2 as singleplayer offline was so tedious and drawn out it wasn't worthwhile except while the servers where down. However, even in D3 theres no requirement to play multiplayer and its actually more friendly to a single player experience then D2 was. The only difference is it requires you to be online. Big deal, they announced this forever ago. If you bought the game despite this - get over it. If you bought the game without researching it, your a moron.
So, let me get this straight; the crux of your argument is; "D2 had problems, so it's ok that D3 has problems"? Not a very strong argument.
And blizz has already said that most people are playing single player. D3 as a mainly multi-player game is a myth, regardless of the original design intent. I see you didn't care to comment on the MMO'ish approach to D3, but that's ok.
D3 is just underwhelming, and that's too bad, because many of us waited a very, very long time for it. Oh well, that's ok, just time to move on. "We'll release it when it's ready" is a total and utter joke at this point. They had the better part of a decade and they came up with... this? Really? What aspect of this game is so complex as to require such a laughably long development cycle?
I kinda have to go with what this guy said. The only difference here is this is gear. Really, when you break it down, everything you get is "BoA" because your Stash is universally shared to begin with.
I don't think you understand what BoA means...
The multi-player enviornment for this game is certainly a joke so I'd agree with you on that point. The issues this game was released with werent balancing issues (outside of the OP skill combos which they've fixed so far) but, that the actual core parts of the game were completely ruined. No public PVP, well granted NO pvp at all, and frankly I'm going to just bet now that the PVP they release is going to suck, because its Arena based...cought WoW anyyone? All they need to do is at least change the max player limit to 6 or something, allow for PVP flagging...and all would be well within the world...despite the games many other flaws.
Itemization at its core in this game...while being randomized...is lazy at best. They've made it so gems are practically useless outside of going for your primary stat, items are very bland because you're looking for just your primary stat or vitality with some other useful affixes. While they stated this was to keep people hunting for that 'perfect roll' good luck with that considering you when finally get that nice legendary or set drop you've been wanting (as a barbarian) BOOM damn intellect on it instead of strength.
While this game tried to be revolutionary in comparsion to D2 it took away some of the best elements that D2 had that drove the game to last and be as popular as it was far after it was released.
I don't really care about BoA because frankly anni's and torches really (very loosely) the same concept. If everyone will get the ring at some point after finding the items, I don't mind them not making this ring sellable. Either way the biggest gripes with this game are itemization, lack of an actual multi-player community,The fact that multi-player games are quest based...highly retarded....and NO PVP.
As to your balance comment, why is it frowned upon when a company who makes go-karts for a living likes to check in and make sure they're all running? I ask this as a general question because you said every single ARPG game ever made has never needed a single change or balance to it.
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"Anything I say can't, and won't be used against me because if they understood my point, they'd have given up theirs." -Christopher Hitchens
Becuase, operating in irrational hyperbole when you're upset over something makes you feel better.
For the record, buffing classes to be level with a dominant class is a form of "balance." So arguing against balance in an ARPG and then suggesting that the solution is just to buff everyone up to that level is a bit of doublespeak.
You can't ever have an AH in an ARPG, it just ruins the trading and itemization, along with their crappy and useless affixes that you find like Health Globe Radius Pickup. Useless.
Pickup radius is far from useless, some builds even rely on very high pickup radius to be effective.
So many good/informative and constructive posts in this thread ...
You can't ever have an AH in an ARPG, it just ruins the trading and itemization, along with their crappy and useless affixes that you find like Health Globe Radius Pickup. Useless.
Pickup radius is far from useless, some builds even rely on very high pickup radius to be effective.
So many good/informative and constructive posts in this thread ...
+1
Thing of the Deep and Grave injustice
More accurately Grave Injustice and Gruesome Feast.
He was referring to builds that utilize pickup radius. Thing of the Deep has nothing to do with it the desireability of pickup radius for WDs other than being an item which allows you to consolidate a significant amount of that stat into one slot.
The one (1, uno, ein) item they have said they will do this with is an item that will need a LOT of work to get. It's supposed to be more of a feat from completing the "event" than it is going to be a fight against the AH.
Please, I understand that you want to complain, but when you start complaining before there is any real explanation on it is just stupid. For all we know it may be a ring that is purely cosmetic. Or opens a story line arc.
I feel that you have missed the concept of my post. The quantity is not coming into question, its the principle. The whole basis of this post is to express my opinion that blizzard should have more of an emphases on its predecessor than adding traits of a game created for T rather then M as the box indicates.
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Taken from Websters;
MMORPG:
massively multiplayer online role-playing game
So based off that definition, can you tell me how many copies of Diablo 3 were sold? With a player base as large as the series had to work off of, you can expect a game company to anticipate a large player base. It is only logical they would draw from what worked, that being WoW. If you are asking for specific instances of influenced mechanics in the game you can take the AH into consideration, the cheesy art, the dialogue set to entertain 13 year olds, and maybe even the leveling system. I am sure there are plenty more observations one could make if they wanted to pursue it.
The art isn't cheesy. The color pallet is larger. The AH was required for how the Diablo 3 item base was. There wasn't supposed to be "BiS items" like in D2. Everyone knew the BiS items for there class in D2. D3 was more about randomizing items to give more choices.
The dialogue... I mean of all the things to critique?
The leveling system... How? Lol. It uses the same leveling system of almost every game - kill monsters, get experience. The only difference is quests give experience and impact the storyline instead of just impacting the game/story line like its predecessor.
People are forgetting one key fact about the AH. The RMAH. Blizzard has a vested interest it making this game as good as it can possibly be and keeping people playing it. If anything the only thing a BoA does is hurt their profits. Honestly i'm kind of glad they'll have a couple of BoA's. It gives people who actually accomplished something harder a reward that others can't simply purchase using RMAH/Gold.
So, you complain that the economy is destroyed, yet you are whining that people can't farm the IM for days on end and fill up the AH with the rings?
I'm confused.
Also, D2 attempted BoA without the actual rule being in place with the anni and torch. They didn't want people farming to trade so they made them unable to be put in trade windows, and only drop traded (Which of course cut down on trading because of people scamming).
I think you have that backward.
That they do. Understandable, but I don't think it has had a good influence on the game.
Right because having many more prefix/affix's on items is a bad thing with more diversity. In D2 you wore Uniques/Runewords. Thats it. Very few set pieces. There was a tiered BiS list for every class/spec. Hell some items where required for certain specs. The point is - more items, game's still RNG, and D2's trade system was terrible. How can you solve this efficiently? Auction House. There really isn't any other way. Yes it makes finding items less worthwhile. But ARPGs are very gear dependent. You need to be able to find gear. When you add that many different variations on equipment your never guaranteed to find upgrades for your character.
(News flash, you weren't in D2 either. You'd be lucky to find a good set/unique in a 2-4 hour Meph farm w/ maphack.)
The problem is people don't want to accept the changes because its different from how Diablo and Diablo 2 where.
Strictly speaking thats one of the reasons i'll never like Torchlight(Fate+)2. Yes the team designed alot of D1/D2 but they went a completely seperate direction into the single player experience. Where for alot of people (myself included) enjoyed the ability to play with friends and randoms. I'm by no means bashing the game.
People need to realize that D3 is its own game. Its not its predecessors. Already within 4 months of release we've seen massive changes to boost the replayability of Inferno and they've announced plans to further develop the end game content. What more can you expect from them?
That's it, that's where you stop. That's when you realize that it is a bad decision because it makes the game less fun. There are pros, there are cons, yes, but ultimately, a game should be fun. That's all, that's how it will be measured. This is not a socioeconomic experiment, it's a mechanism for entertainment.
The AH brings with it all of these crummy consequences and restrictions and I just don't think it was worth it.
While it's not fun for you a lot of the "hardcore gamers" that wanted to be awesome and rich as the top-notch players, for the casual playerbase that's playing Normal/Nightmare (I had a few friends in this category), it's "the most awesome game they ever played" (I quote).
And I honestly understand you. I really wanted to see a whole IK set drop to me. I'd trade the AH for that feeling any day. But it's just not happening. Is the game less fun to me because of that? Well that depends entirely on my mindset and I'm a pretty positive guy.
Please, I understand that you want to complain, but when you start complaining before there is any real explanation on it is just stupid. For all we know it may be a ring that is purely cosmetic. Or opens a story line arc.
Cooldown on potions?
Huge cooldown on skills?
Time to cast town portal?
Time to identify items?
Time to craft? (gems/items)
Auction house? (killed the trade games which I loved in D2, it also helped me build my friend list) Also it killed the singleplayer experience for most players. Everyone seems to farm gear just to sell them on the AH.
Linking items? there is no more: "come I show u some cool item" . Dead social aspect .
Online only? Really? There was HUGE difference in D2 between singleplayer and battle.net .. huge , I feel NONE in D3.
Belial , wtf is that? huge boss , just like ALL mmos are .
This is not a Diablo game , it's a crap out of WoW developers .
Really that makes it an mmo... never mind you do not have thousands all playing together in the same place... And the Auction House...of course that is so very MMO.. cause no one ever sat in chat hawking their junk for hours in D2... oh wait.. you did if you wanted to sell it... And so instead of playing the game you sat there being a shop keeper.
Yeah soooo MMO to put in an Auction House for players to sell their stuff and still be able to play the game. And the always online aspect..we all know this is a DRM, not an MMO or other BS excuse, it is to counter all those jackasses that hacked to hell and back in D2
And as above poster pointed out... Skills that deal big damage should not be spammed, running around casting poison nova non-stop and watching everything fall dead or tossing out curses non-stop getting everything to die for fighting themselves with no cooldowns removes any talents or skill management..
Claiming D3 is an MMO is just wrong, the only similar aspects are they both have RPG in them, that is it... 1 has thousands all in 1 open world location together.. D3 has up to 4 people in 1 small place...that is it...not an MMORPG
Most people don't get this - that THEY are the source of their own misery. They want to project it on loot, or the AH, or anything else.
I wanted a whole Zunimassas set to drop for me too, but then I had a hard reality check.... I didn't have a whole anything set drop for my Necromancer in D2. I never found a Zod rune, in fact I'm pretty sure I never found anything above Thul or Ort (rough estimate because my memory on that bit is foggy). But who cares? It didn't make D2 a bad game and it certainly isn't making D3 a bad game.
Every single bit of the negativity stems from inaccurate memories of D2. Every bit of it. The whole idea that "I should be able to find all my own gear" is a total manifestation of those incorrect memories. Sure, it may have been a bit easier in D2 to find all your own gear, but people here pass it off as if it was the majority of players which certainly wasn't true. If everyone were finding all their own gear then sites like D2JSP wouldn't have existed and the extensive amount of trade games would have been entirely unnecessary and duping would have been pointless. But all those things existed and that's a surefire sign that there was a demand for gear "transactions" because the average person wasn't finding all their own gear. Common sense is hard, I realize, but people on these forums really need to make friends with it because the elaborateness of their retardation is reaching epic proportions.
pretty sure I agree with everything you've said.
Sadly TL 2's downfall (unless they've changed it) will be the console interface where you can just hack the shit out of the game and stack your character. HOPEFULLY that doesn't show since its going to be multi-player, single player thats fine.
The multi-player enviornment for this game is certainly a joke so I'd agree with you on that point. The issues this game was released with werent balancing issues (outside of the OP skill combos which they've fixed so far) but, that the actual core parts of the game were completely ruined. No public PVP, well granted NO pvp at all, and frankly I'm going to just bet now that the PVP they release is going to suck, because its Arena based...cought WoW anyyone? All they need to do is at least change the max player limit to 6 or something, allow for PVP flagging...and all would be well within the world...despite the games many other flaws.
Itemization at its core in this game...while being randomized...is lazy at best. They've made it so gems are practically useless outside of going for your primary stat, items are very bland because you're looking for just your primary stat or vitality with some other useful affixes. While they stated this was to keep people hunting for that 'perfect roll' good luck with that considering you when finally get that nice legendary or set drop you've been wanting (as a barbarian) BOOM damn intellect on it instead of strength.
While this game tried to be revolutionary in comparsion to D2 it took away some of the best elements that D2 had that drove the game to last and be as popular as it was far after it was released.
I don't really care about BoA because frankly anni's and torches really (very loosely) the same concept. If everyone will get the ring at some point after finding the items, I don't mind them not making this ring sellable. Either way the biggest gripes with this game are itemization, lack of an actual multi-player community,The fact that multi-player games are quest based...highly retarded....and NO PVP.
Louis CK on BoA items in Diablo 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-JZSyhWSc#t=45s
As to your balance comment, why is it frowned upon when a company who makes go-karts for a living likes to check in and make sure they're all running? I ask this as a general question because you said every single ARPG game ever made has never needed a single change or balance to it.
Becuase, operating in irrational hyperbole when you're upset over something makes you feel better.
For the record, buffing classes to be level with a dominant class is a form of "balance." So arguing against balance in an ARPG and then suggesting that the solution is just to buff everyone up to that level is a bit of doublespeak.
Pickup radius is far from useless, some builds even rely on very high pickup radius to be effective.
So many good/informative and constructive posts in this thread ...
More accurately Grave Injustice and Gruesome Feast.
He was referring to builds that utilize pickup radius. Thing of the Deep has nothing to do with it the desireability of pickup radius for WDs other than being an item which allows you to consolidate a significant amount of that stat into one slot.
I feel that you have missed the concept of my post. The quantity is not coming into question, its the principle. The whole basis of this post is to express my opinion that blizzard should have more of an emphases on its predecessor than adding traits of a game created for T rather then M as the box indicates.