The developers are stating that D3 is all about the thrill of the loot drop, but rarely does any good loot drop. I played for about 6 hours this weekend with no good drops, not even remotely good. Then we are force to use the AH. If you wanted to play the game without the AH is would almost be impossible to beat the game
The percentage of a level 63 item is low and even when one drops it is about a 1 in 1000 that will remotely any good.
I would like to put it out the D3 community ideas how to fix this problem.
My first suggestion is to reduced all resistance required cause at this stage if armour drops it is normally pretty useless if it does not have resist all. Currently you need about 500 resist all to be viable at all, reducing this to about 100 would greatly increase the range of armour that is viable.
The developers are stating that D3 is all about the thrill of the loot drop, but rarely does any good loot drop.
Arguably true, although it depends on your definition of "good," loot. Do you mean it as in "good," enough to beat the game or "good," enough to farm act3 inferno (everyone's favorite benchmark)? Or perhaps some other litmus is required.
Then we are force to use the AH. If you wanted to play the game without the AH is would almost be impossible to beat the game
Demonstrably false. The game is quite possibly to beat all the way through inferno without buying anything and it has been done now by a countless number of youtube jockeys and streamers alike.
My first suggestion is to reduced all resistance required cause at this stage if armour drops it is normally pretty useless if it does not have resist all.
10 armor ~ 1 All Resist. Armor is not useless and is, in-fact, grossly under-valued.
Currently you need about 500 resist all to be viable at all, reducing this to about 100 would greatly increase the range of armour that is viable.
Quite a few classes (if not all) are viable with glass cannon builds which have little or no resist benchmarks to meet or maintain. Furthermore, I don't think greatly reducing the damage of all monsters from act1 onward would be of much use when your intended goal is to improve the rate at which "good," (don't forget to define this) loot drops.
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I do agree that there is still a glut of what i'd call "completely useless shit," in the itemization mix. I don't think every item should be like some legendaries (nearly impossible to get a bad roll), but I do believe that finding hundreds of ilvl 63 items worth less than a decent ilvl 55 equivalent is patently absurd and happens far too much.
Damage reduce from armor hits diminishing returns at 50%, which equals to abit above 3k armor.
Adding another 2k armor, adds another 15% of mitigation, to achieve the same with all res you only need about +100
This is not always true, but as a rule of thumb it is useful in comparing stats. It's far easier to evaluate when resistances and armor are near normative values.
No. Armor and AR amplify one another as reflected in a proper EHP calculation. If you are seeking optimal EHP, you want both. There is no incentive to stack either one by itself. The simplest rule to follow is to keep them at a 10:1 ratio.
Adding another 2k armor, adds another 15% of mitigation, to achieve the same with all res you only need about +100
Even if this was the case, armor could conceivably be so much relatively cheaper as a stat that it didn't matter. In either event, adding armor and AR will continue to scale better in tandem than stacking either alone.
Like I said before, stop using the AH, and your drops will be "good".
But if you already used the AH to make a progress, then dont expect anything good for you to drop.
This is what ppl dont understand, the AH is killing the fun in this game for many of us, and they dont understand that the solution is quite simple, dont use it.
Its rough when you spend so much time playing and nothing good comes of it as far as drops are concerned. I have played hours and hours and haven't seen a single set drop or legendary for that matter. But thats part of the game, I suppose. Though I do agree with you that there should be a higher rate of better drops. Just keep playing and I'm sure it will happen. Just think how much more excited you will be when that awesome drop occurs!!!
The developers are stating that D3 is all about the thrill of the loot drop, but rarely does any good loot drop.
Arguably true, although it depends on your definition of "good," loot. Do you mean it as in "good," enough to beat the game or "good," enough to farm act3 inferno (everyone's favorite benchmark)? Or perhaps some other litmus is required.
Then we are force to use the AH. If you wanted to play the game without the AH is would almost be impossible to beat the game
Demonstrably false. The game is quite possibly to beat all the way through inferno without buying anything and it has been done now by a countless number of youtube jockeys and streamers alike.
My first suggestion is to reduced all resistance required cause at this stage if armour drops it is normally pretty useless if it does not have resist all.
10 armor ~ 1 All Resist. Armor is not useless and is, in-fact, grossly under-valued.
Currently you need about 500 resist all to be viable at all, reducing this to about 100 would greatly increase the range of armour that is viable.
Quite a few classes (if not all) are viable with glass cannon builds which have little or no resist benchmarks to meet or maintain. Furthermore, I don't think greatly reducing the damage of all monsters from act1 onward would be of much use when your intended goal is to improve the rate at which "good," (don't forget to define this) loot drops.
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I do agree that there is still a glut of what i'd call "completely useless shit," in the itemization mix. I don't think every item should be like some legendaries (nearly impossible to get a bad roll), but I do believe that finding hundreds of ilvl 63 items worth less than a decent ilvl 55 equivalent is patently absurd and happens far too much.
I like how you broke down the post, although when he/she said the "1 in a 1000" remark, I believe it was about the odds of it being good, not the drop chance.
I like how you broke down the post, although when he/she said the "1 in a 1000" remark, I believe it was about the odds of it being good, not the drop chance.
You still have to define "good," in order for that to mean anything.
If I had to do so myself, I'd say "good," as in within the top half or so of possible stat rolls and with at least four relevant affixes total. Currently "good," by that definition is not very common.
The problem is everyone is decently geared, when people say they need more drops to beat the game, it's a lie, they just want to face roll mostly to the end.
Good usually means = very good right now. And the longer the game goes, the more useful drops now will be looked over completely later on, causing people to say (they nerfed drops, nothing "good" drops).
I'm feeling this right now, because I'm a stats-nerd and I keep track of this sort of crap. I've been farming ActII at 150 base MF for the last week, and haven't even found anything worth selling, much less an upgrade, and that's including just over 50 level 63 rares (so many thorns + no durability loss items x_x ). Although about half my gear is found rather than bought, the item-drought I'm currently in is somewhat demoralizing. The fact that you need good items to get good items is a feedback loop that's problematic in the presence of RNG-based income. It may well work out fine over 1000 hours of gameplay, but I feel sorry for all the people out there who gave up because they rolled nothing but crap for their first 100 hours of Inferno play.
Given that Blizzard has indicated that they want to work on reducing AH dominance, maybe 1.1 will have something shiny and cool that solves all our problems... but it seems like a hell of a tricky situation.
The problem is everyone is decently geared, when people say they need more drops to beat the game, it's a lie, they just want to face roll mostly to the end.
Quite true and I have said as much. You don't need very good items to arbitrarily "beat the game," and by that I mean dodge lots of elites, use a strong gimmick build, and defeat bosses with 0 NV stacks. Anyone making the claim that the game is simply impossible without the aid of better drops has been refuted. That said, the game is and never really was about "winning," by accomplishing that goal. It's about the item hunt, item exchange, and the endless grind to 100 (formerly 99), among other things. Currently the average rare (to say nothing of the new legendaires, which are great) ilvl 63 has a very good chance of being useless. Not useless as in "I have better," but useless as in "this wouldn't be good on my alt if he just hit 60 and was naked." Things like weapons with no damage modifiers, huge amounts of unrelated or undesired stats on class specific weapons (300 str wand, 300 int mighty belt), etc. are just too obviously junk and in my experience too common.
The sooner people figure out that this game isn't meant to be beaten in a weekend, the sooner you will start to just enjoy the game. You farmed for 6 hours and got nothing? Duh? It's been said too much already, but here goes again. This game is all about farming. If you don't like it go play something else. You aren't going to get the best gear in the game in a couple of 'hardcore weekend grinds' lol...
The sooner people figure out that this game isn't meant to be beaten in a weekend, the sooner you will start to just enjoy the game. You farmed for 6 hours and got nothing? Duh? It's been said too much already, but here goes again. This game is all about farming. If you don't like it go play something else. You aren't going to get the best gear in the game in a couple of 'hardcore weekend grinds' lol...
STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT LOOT...
I don't think the 'beat in a weekend,' applies to anyone here, but you could add something constructive to the conversation if you want.
I don't think eliminating the lowest rung of junk rolls would deal a blow to the game's longevity and I think that is the appropriate course of action.
I think, like others mentioned, that cutting the drop rate of everything by 10, but making them 10x better, would be a nice approach to the current situation.
Diablo 3 is an item lottery (Diablottery), so when you bought the game, you knew it. In a single act1 farm run, you get 50-60 rare items in 1-2 hours, just imagine what would happen if at least half of it would be 'good', sellable item. The price of the 'good' items would drop to the floor, and nobody could make any gold in the AH, and I suppose, this is your problem: you can't make money in AH. The increase of the 'good' item's drop rate wouldn't solve your problem!
Everyone just expect the loots to clear act 3 inferno uberfast to drop in a single run, or at least 1 part of it. Its better that they keep the good loots rare so not everything devaluates as crazy. And also if you farm act 1, dont expect to find crazy loot to clear act 3 all the time. The loot to clear the game and farm all act at a slow pace drops like all the time, but the loot to farm like mad is rare, so expensive.
I can clear act 3 pretty fast now with around 300% mf, in 1-1.5 hours i clear rougly 75% of act 3, i find mostly crap during these runs but I noticed that if you just keep improving your farm route and your gear you will ALLWAYS end up with a few items that make you some money on the AH. to all the naysayers on this, screw u and keep farming.
I can clear act 3 pretty fast now with around 300% mf, in 1-1.5 hours i clear rougly 75% of act 3, i find mostly crap during these runs but I noticed that if you just keep improving your farm route and your gear you will ALLWAYS end up with a few items that make you some money on the AH. to all the naysayers on this, screw u and keep farming.
I don't think there's any reason this paradigm has to change in order to raise the floor level of some items.
With some fairly trivial highschool math you can deduce the following two things:
1) There is no diminishing returns on either armor or resistance. The amount of damage you take less per additional point of armor or resistance, doesn't change from 0 to infinite armor or resistance.
2) Adding 1 allres gives *exactly* as much damage reduction as adding 10 armor.
Damage reduce from armor hits diminishing returns at 50%, which equals to abit above 3k armor.
Adding another 2k armor, adds another 15% of mitigation, to achieve the same with all res you only need about +100
No. Adding 2k armor is exactly as effective as adding 200 allres, as can be deducted from the formulas.
Thank you, saved me the trouble of typing that myself. The "diminishing return" nonsense needs to stop. Nobody seems to understand what it means anyways.
With some fairly trivial highschool math you can deduce the following two things:
1) There is no diminishing returns on either armor or resistance. The amount of damage you take less per additional point of armor or resistance, doesn't change from 0 to infinite armor or resistance.
2) Adding 1 allres gives *exactly* as much damage reduction as adding 10 armor.
Damage reduce from armor hits diminishing returns at 50%, which equals to abit above 3k armor.
Adding another 2k armor, adds another 15% of mitigation, to achieve the same with all res you only need about +100
No. Adding 2k armor is exactly as effective as adding 200 allres, as can be deducted from the formulas.
Actually, this is not 100% correct. It is only correct if you current all res = 10x current armour (yes I'm Australian, deal with it). If either is lower than the other, it is better to increase the one that is lower. The maths is not actually all that trivial, but it's easy enough to test in a spreadsheet. Set up the formulas in a spreadsheet and see how much extra damage is prevented for different scenarios.
To show my point though let's start with 0 armour and all res. Against level 60 monsters, it takes 300 to get 50% damage reduction, this increases your effective health to 200% of your health pool (a 100% increase). What happens if you add another 300 armour? Your damage reduction increases to 67%, which increases your effective health to 300%. This is where it gets confusing... there is no diminishing returns from the point of view that each point of armour increases your effective hit points by the same amount, however, the total effective health is increasing, so while the first 300 armour made your health pool grow by 100%, the second 300 armour only increased your effective health by 50% (100 increase / 200 health before upgrade). The next 300 armour will only increase it by 33% (100/300).
Ok, what happens if at 300 armour we instead add 30 all res? This also gives 50% damage reduction, but this is multiplied against the other damage reduction for a total of 75%, which increases the effective health from 200% to 400%, a 100% increase!
This is why it is better to mix multiplies from different areas like all res, block, skills, etc and why it's best to keep armour close to 10x all res. In general, all res costs the same as 10 armour, so if you're looking to buy items to boost your defence, you'll get a bigger bang for your buck by increasing the stat that is further behind.
I ask for drops to be rewarding and when the stupid legendary drops it should be exciting (hello Legendary Two-Handed Mighty Weapon with 1050DPS and INT)
Prices of "average good" items are dropping on AH and everyone already consider these as "crap" just simply because people have better. I remember when I bought my 900 dps Xbow with socket and some dex for milions. Now you can have such item very cheap. Its because the market is already flooded with those "average good" items and we all are looking just for those close-to-godly items.
This is half true. Crap is sometimes crap, see the above example and mine before it. There is never a market or a use for a wand with a bunch of strength or a mighty weapon with int. There is never a good reason to use a weapon with no damage modifiers and these are just a couple instances to illustrate the point.
The market may be trending even middle-value items down in gold value (I'm not convinced of this to be honest, I think high ends are holding up quite well and the middle is more or less being pulled up by those numbers), but to suggest the utility of ANY item is relative to market forces alone is obviously not true.
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The developers are stating that D3 is all about the thrill of the loot drop, but rarely does any good loot drop. I played for about 6 hours this weekend with no good drops, not even remotely good. Then we are force to use the AH. If you wanted to play the game without the AH is would almost be impossible to beat the game
The percentage of a level 63 item is low and even when one drops it is about a 1 in 1000 that will remotely any good.
I would like to put it out the D3 community ideas how to fix this problem.
My first suggestion is to reduced all resistance required cause at this stage if armour drops it is normally pretty useless if it does not have resist all. Currently you need about 500 resist all to be viable at all, reducing this to about 100 would greatly increase the range of armour that is viable.
Welcome!
Arguably true, although it depends on your definition of "good," loot. Do you mean it as in "good," enough to beat the game or "good," enough to farm act3 inferno (everyone's favorite benchmark)? Or perhaps some other litmus is required.
I would advise against anecdotes of this kind unless you're attempting to parse a more statistically meaningful sample with personal experience.
Demonstrably false. The game is quite possibly to beat all the way through inferno without buying anything and it has been done now by a countless number of youtube jockeys and streamers alike.
This improves as you move up in act difficulty.
Ok.
10 armor ~ 1 All Resist. Armor is not useless and is, in-fact, grossly under-valued.
Quite a few classes (if not all) are viable with glass cannon builds which have little or no resist benchmarks to meet or maintain. Furthermore, I don't think greatly reducing the damage of all monsters from act1 onward would be of much use when your intended goal is to improve the rate at which "good," (don't forget to define this) loot drops.
---
I do agree that there is still a glut of what i'd call "completely useless shit," in the itemization mix. I don't think every item should be like some legendaries (nearly impossible to get a bad roll), but I do believe that finding hundreds of ilvl 63 items worth less than a decent ilvl 55 equivalent is patently absurd and happens far too much.
Damage reduce from armor hits diminishing returns at 50%, which equals to abit above 3k armor.
Adding another 2k armor, adds another 15% of mitigation, to achieve the same with all res you only need about +100
This is not always true, but as a rule of thumb it is useful in comparing stats. It's far easier to evaluate when resistances and armor are near normative values.
Yes, eventually.
No. Armor and AR amplify one another as reflected in a proper EHP calculation. If you are seeking optimal EHP, you want both. There is no incentive to stack either one by itself. The simplest rule to follow is to keep them at a 10:1 ratio.
Even if this was the case, armor could conceivably be so much relatively cheaper as a stat that it didn't matter. In either event, adding armor and AR will continue to scale better in tandem than stacking either alone.
But if you already used the AH to make a progress, then dont expect anything good for you to drop.
This is what ppl dont understand, the AH is killing the fun in this game for many of us, and they dont understand that the solution is quite simple, dont use it.
I like how you broke down the post, although when he/she said the "1 in a 1000" remark, I believe it was about the odds of it being good, not the drop chance.
You still have to define "good," in order for that to mean anything.
If I had to do so myself, I'd say "good," as in within the top half or so of possible stat rolls and with at least four relevant affixes total. Currently "good," by that definition is not very common.
Good usually means = very good right now. And the longer the game goes, the more useful drops now will be looked over completely later on, causing people to say (they nerfed drops, nothing "good" drops).
tl:dr, It's fine, there's is plenty.
Given that Blizzard has indicated that they want to work on reducing AH dominance, maybe 1.1 will have something shiny and cool that solves all our problems... but it seems like a hell of a tricky situation.
Quite true and I have said as much. You don't need very good items to arbitrarily "beat the game," and by that I mean dodge lots of elites, use a strong gimmick build, and defeat bosses with 0 NV stacks. Anyone making the claim that the game is simply impossible without the aid of better drops has been refuted. That said, the game is and never really was about "winning," by accomplishing that goal. It's about the item hunt, item exchange, and the endless grind to 100 (formerly 99), among other things. Currently the average rare (to say nothing of the new legendaires, which are great) ilvl 63 has a very good chance of being useless. Not useless as in "I have better," but useless as in "this wouldn't be good on my alt if he just hit 60 and was naked." Things like weapons with no damage modifiers, huge amounts of unrelated or undesired stats on class specific weapons (300 str wand, 300 int mighty belt), etc. are just too obviously junk and in my experience too common.
STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT LOOT...
I don't think the 'beat in a weekend,' applies to anyone here, but you could add something constructive to the conversation if you want.
I can clear act 3 pretty fast now with around 300% mf, in 1-1.5 hours i clear rougly 75% of act 3, i find mostly crap during these runs but I noticed that if you just keep improving your farm route and your gear you will ALLWAYS end up with a few items that make you some money on the AH. to all the naysayers on this, screw u and keep farming.
That point has not been articulated, but excellent hyperbole.
Value remains consistent above the average. In other words, even if the bottom 10% of loot drops were improved, it wouldn't devalue the great stuff.
I don't think there's any reason this paradigm has to change in order to raise the floor level of some items.
Thank you, saved me the trouble of typing that myself. The "diminishing return" nonsense needs to stop. Nobody seems to understand what it means anyways.
Actually, this is not 100% correct. It is only correct if you current all res = 10x current armour (yes I'm Australian, deal with it). If either is lower than the other, it is better to increase the one that is lower. The maths is not actually all that trivial, but it's easy enough to test in a spreadsheet. Set up the formulas in a spreadsheet and see how much extra damage is prevented for different scenarios.
To show my point though let's start with 0 armour and all res. Against level 60 monsters, it takes 300 to get 50% damage reduction, this increases your effective health to 200% of your health pool (a 100% increase). What happens if you add another 300 armour? Your damage reduction increases to 67%, which increases your effective health to 300%. This is where it gets confusing... there is no diminishing returns from the point of view that each point of armour increases your effective hit points by the same amount, however, the total effective health is increasing, so while the first 300 armour made your health pool grow by 100%, the second 300 armour only increased your effective health by 50% (100 increase / 200 health before upgrade). The next 300 armour will only increase it by 33% (100/300).
Ok, what happens if at 300 armour we instead add 30 all res? This also gives 50% damage reduction, but this is multiplied against the other damage reduction for a total of 75%, which increases the effective health from 200% to 400%, a 100% increase!
This is why it is better to mix multiplies from different areas like all res, block, skills, etc and why it's best to keep armour close to 10x all res. In general, all res costs the same as 10 armour, so if you're looking to buy items to boost your defence, you'll get a bigger bang for your buck by increasing the stat that is further behind.
My point exactly.
This is half true. Crap is sometimes crap, see the above example and mine before it. There is never a market or a use for a wand with a bunch of strength or a mighty weapon with int. There is never a good reason to use a weapon with no damage modifiers and these are just a couple instances to illustrate the point.
The market may be trending even middle-value items down in gold value (I'm not convinced of this to be honest, I think high ends are holding up quite well and the middle is more or less being pulled up by those numbers), but to suggest the utility of ANY item is relative to market forces alone is obviously not true.