AH prices out of control

  • #41
    Quote from fadeddeath

    Quote from thundersteele

    AH prices are not out of control. You don't need 100m to buy gear that clears inferno (though having 20m+ is probably a good idea), and for sure you don't need gear for 100m a piece to farm inferno.


    I never said you needed to spend 100m+ to clear inferno.


    Well, you said that there are many people who are in dire need of upgrades to clear inferno, and that stuff being listed at 100m is a problem for these people. Anyways, we don't have to fight about it, I understand that it was just meant as one aspect where high AH prices are bad.

    D3 item rolls are like lottery... you get 3 numbers right, you get a few bucks, you get all six numbers right, you get a million dollars.
    If you take a very simple example, an item with two stats that can roll 0-100. Getting one stat high (90-100) has a chance of 10%, getting both stats high (both 90-100) has a chance of 1%, getting both high but not that high (80-100) has a chance of 4%. This means that the chest with 90 dex 90 vit will be 4x as expensive as the chest with 80 dex 80 vit, and 10x as expensive as the chest with 90 dex and 20 vit. So you end up with a situation where you have to shell out a lot more gold for a very small upgrade.

    The buffed Legendaries will help a lot here. A perfectly rolled Legendary will still be extremely expensive, but even a badly rolled legendary is a good item now and will be affordable.
    My monk Vin
  • #42
    I'd like for this to happen, honestly I would, but people undercut on a daily basis and it hasn't made any change. with gold hovering arounr $1.00 - $1.50 for a million on the RMAH just imagine how much two billion gold item costs in real money. It's not worth it, not by any stretch of the imagination but still people who have obtained large ridiculous amounts of gold will buy it, I'm not sure how people even have hundreds of millions legitimately, it just blows my mind.most of the legendaries that are up for ridiculous amounts though aren't gonna sell most likely and the market will sort of find a medium. That people will actually pay and as time goes on and there are more and more of these items the prices will drop naturally. So it's just a matter of us poor folk having to wait for that time and try to scrounge together as much gold as we can in the mean time.
  • #43
    Quote from fadeddeath

    Just an idea but I think it's time to put a stop to outrageous pricing on the gold AH. It's just out of hand. I've seen new legendary items up for 2 Billion gold. First of all, that won't sell because nobody that plays the game in a legit fashion could afford it. Second of all, the person that can afford it most likely doesn't need it. EPEEN is no excuse.


    It pains me to point out something so obvious, but disallowing people to set their own price essentially nullifies the AH as a system for exchange. If you cap the gold amount people are allowed to ask for, trade channels again reign supreme and the price will not change for the better due to the fact that the amount of goods which can be easily exchanged is much smaller by that method.

    Quote from fadeddeath

    The average player may go to the auction house after saving up gold and buy a new weapon for 10-15 Million because it increases DPS by 2000 or add a good amount of LoH but listing a weapon for 100 Million + just because it has a socket and 40% crit dmg is ridiculous. The gap between good items and great items is way too large.


    And you are soon to see it plummet by the forces of supply and demand. Currently, there are a TON of legendary items hitting the AH and many of them are almost impossible to get "worthless," rolls on in relationship to their stats. People buying them for hundreds of millions today are getting first dibs, sure, but rest assured that in a few weeks those items are going to be worth a fraction of that simply because most players will already have that item or an equivalent. The same could not be said pre-patch with the incredible scarcity and uncertainty of high-roll rares; however, this patch has changed much about the commonality of "good," items.

    Quote from fadeddeath

    I propose that we should come together and start listing items at lower prices as a whole to bring the market down. I personally have already cleared Inferno on my Monk and leveled all 5 classes to 60 so I'm not in any rush to buy many upgrades but I know that there are a lot of people out there that need upgrades to clear inferno.


    Feel free to do so, but realize that you are not actually driving down costs down a meaningful amount by this method. Unless you have a large enough sack of coin to re-list (and I hope you're feeling charitable because this is basically giving gold away) a large quantity of a given item, the price will trend back to equilibrium.

    Quote from fadeddeath

    Also since I list my items at much lower prices, they sell super fast and I make a good deal of gold anyway. I know that if more people lower their prices to a reasonable level I will make less gold per item that I sell but in turn the items I buy will be less expensive so I won't need as much gold. I also know that Gems aren't going to come down since they are expensive to make but every other item should.


    You are, of course, correct in estimating that competetive pricing works wonders for sales; however, that is simply because (as I stated above) the price of all these goods are trending down faster than unrealistic sellers are setting obnoxiously high price listings. If you undercut by less than 10% today with most items, the odds of making a sale are slim. I would certainly advise anyone who wishes to make gold that they use a 20% rule of thumb unless they are quite sure their item is of a rarity which could becalm the overall market force.

    Quote from fadeddeath

    All prices in the AH are relative to similar quality items in the AH but what people don't realize is that if an item were priced way too high, it will remain in the AH unsold. Then when someone finds an item and searches the AH for an item of similar quality and says "HOLY $#!T That one is selling for 100M, I'm going to be rich!", what they don't realize is that it is still in the AH for a reason. At this point yo now have multiple items of similar quality in the AH in this range which causes people to think that everything of this quality is worth this much.


    This scenario presumes that said item is actually rare enough to only have two present on the AH. For the vast majority of cases this is untrue. In those cases; however, and if those items are highly sought after, it is quite sensible that they command the highest price someone is willing to pay. In the case of most items, there will simply be two astronomically high listings followed by a rather dramatic stair-step down until sales begin to take place. Remember that AH slots are not unlimited and every minute one allows an item to sit at a high price there is a chance that one of millions of other players will find the same item (or quite similar) and undercut. The incentive is certainly not (in most cases) to list too high, but rather to list just low enough to entice a buyer.

    Quote from fadeddeath

    Now in the next game they find something with similar stats just lower values of it. They end up thinking, "If my Godly one is selling for 100M then this one must sell for at least 50M..." This makes lesser quality items get listed for much more. Since people used the Ferrari as an example, we can use that here if this were a real life situation.


    As item quality drops, rarity decreases, and competition increases. There is no merit in this comparison because if you are basing your listing on an item with far greater stats, you're making a poor judgment call. So what if you list your cracked sash for 50m? Others may follow suit if they like, but ultimately the buyers will not take the bait until the price is closer to what they are willing to pay.

    Quote from fadeddeath

    The 2012 Ferrari 458 Italia goes for $229,825 starting MSRP. It has a Verified 0-60 time of 3.3 sec
    The 2012 Nissan GT-R Primium goes for $89,950 starting MSRP and has a Verified 0-60 time of 2.8 sec.


    Brand recognition doesn't translate very well into the game; not the best example you could have come up with.

    Quote from fadeddeath

    The Nissan has a better 0-60 time and better gas mileage if that's what your into. It also has much higher torque rating at a lower RPM. All in all it outperforms the Ferrari. Now in a real life economy they don't price it to match or price it higher than the Ferrari even though it performs better.


    In the real world there is a prestige associated with ownership of a ferarri which does not come with more generic brands. This does not exist in the game. Unique items are far too common to command that kind of mark-up. The only items in the game which would even broach this level of recognition elevation are literal "perfect," rolls which have the absolute highest possible stats in the most ideal affixes. I would certainly assume that, should some of those items come along, you could expect to pay billions of gold just to gain a few stat points, assuming you were upgrading from an all-but-perfect item already.

    The problem is, the crux of your argument does not hedge on the limited number of absolutely perfect items, but the cost of "good," items of a middling variety, presumably good enough to farm act3/4 comfortably. As I stated from the get-go, these items are absolutely booming in supply now. They are not the ferarri from your example, but rather a model T ford. Pre-patch the "good," items (using act3 as a benchmark) were like the pre-assembly-line automobiles: hard to acquire, relatively rare, and sufficiently expensive to keep most players from buying. Post-patch they are now the mass-produced machines we nearly all take for granted today: not very hard to come by and the continuous competition (with even fewer consumers relative to producers than in the real world) all the while there to keep the price trending down.

    TL;DR: The suggestion to effectively disable the AH is short-sighted and the suggestion to attempt a market manipulation (in reverse) is similarly ill-conceived. I wish you the best of luck if you choose to take this on yourself, please feel free to sell your discounted goods around the 9-10pm eastern standard time period. I would be more than happy to render my bidding hand to your generous cause.
  • #44
    Look at it this way... when an item sells for 100 million, that's 15 million gold out of the economy and one less person competing for that kind of item. That's some deflationary pressure right there.
  • #45
    Quote from BigEd781

    Also, the Boston Tea Party was only a catalyst; it took hundreds of thousands of deaths to win the war. Important tidbit you seem to have missed. Silly analogy, makes no sense.


    I think you are on to something here.

    Where to find a few hundred thousaid sacrifical lambs....

    *rubs chin*
    67.1k elite kills :: 1.98m total kills :: p255
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #46
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from BigEd781

    Also, the Boston Tea Party was only a catalyst; it took hundreds of thousands of deaths to win the war. Important tidbit you seem to have missed. Silly analogy, makes no sense.


    I think you are on to something here.

    Where to find a few hundred thousaid sacrifical lambs....

    *rubs chin*


    The official forums are that-a-way ----->
  • #47
    Quote from fadeddeath

    Quote from phoulmouth

    Quote from fadeddeath

    Just an idea but I think it's time to put a stop to outrageous pricing on the gold AH. It's just out of hand. I've seen new legendary items up for 2 Billion gold. First of all, that won't sell because nobody that plays the game in a legit fashion could afford it. Second of all, the person that can afford it most likely doesn't need it. EPEEN is no excuse.

    The average player may go to the auction house after saving up gold and buy a new weapon for 10-15 Million because it increases DPS by 2000 or add a good amount of LoH but listing a weapon for 100 Million + just because it has a socket and 40% crit dmg is ridiculous. The gap between good items and great items is way too large.

    I propose that we should come together and start listing items at lower prices as a whole to bring the market down. I personally have already cleared Inferno on my Monk and leveled all 5 classes to 60 so I'm not in any rush to buy many upgrades but I know that there are a lot of people out there that need upgrades to clear inferno.

    Also since I list my items at much lower prices, they sell super fast and I make a good deal of gold anyway. I know that if more people lower their prices to a reasonable level I will make less gold per item that I sell but in turn the items I buy will be less expensive so I won't need as much gold. I also know that Gems aren't going to come down since they are expensive to make but every other item should.

    Lets all get together and bring the prices down!!!


    /yawn

    I dropped 10 mil on a 1150 DPS 45% windforce. I see no problems with that.

    You are raging like a child over a video game and pricing that is obviously not realistic. Yeah, I see the 2 billions and the 1 billions, and the even the 500 millions. Yeah, they aren't going to sell, why cry about it? What is your crying going to do other than to make other people come here crying about it and add yet another crybaby thread to these boards. Something these boards really don't need.

    Economics 101. Nothing is worth more than the buyer is willing to pay. People listing shit that high are either using the AH as extra bank space, something I have done in the past, or they are stupid enough to really think it will sell. In the long run, if they are listing it to sell it they will eventually have to drop their price to a point where someone will buy it. Coming on unofficial forums QQing because you can't afford something is not going to change a thing. Its a waiting game. Within the next 3-4 weeks you will see the prices on the new legendaries drop, this is guaranteed. The longer you wait, the lower the prices will get, this is as true in D3 as it is in the real world and has been happening since release when 1k DPS blue weapons were selling for 50mil on the AH.


    There is nothing wrong with dropping 10m on a weapon. 10-15m for something like that is reasonable. What I am saying is that people listing things for 100m is ruining the AH economy. I added more to my post based on some replies that explains this a little better. Sorry if there was some confusion.


    You obviously didn't read past my first line. GG kid.
  • #48
    Lol basic economy, let people set the prices at what they want, who are you to decide whats fair price?

    We can agree that those silly amounts dont sell, but so what? then they can list them again for a smaller amount. He is the one not getting the items sold, we arent punished in any way.

    Just basic economy, all things is worth what buyers will pay. Stupid to let you control what u think is the "right" price lol.
  • #49
    Quote from Eldius

    Yeah, look where capitalism has gotten our world. Most countries are in debt, and damn near everyone is a selfish git. I'm not talking about the top of tier 1, just good enough so I can kill smoothly, and not die as frequently as Kenny from South Park. Only way to get that kind of gear is to find it, because EVERYTHING is overpriced on BOTH auction houses.

    My 15 Mil Monk (able to finish the game), my 8 Mil WD (able to start Act 3 for now), my 12 Mil Barbarian (able to do Act 3), and my 8 Mil DH (able to farm Act 2, with 180 base MF) all disagree that things are overpriced :P

    Obviously some people will throw crazy numbers out there. That doesn't mean you have to buy it, nor that they get to sell their items in less than a month.
  • #50
    Quote from Eldius

    I'm not talking about the top of tier 1, just good enough so I can kill smoothly, and not die as frequently as Kenny from South Park. Only way to get that kind of gear is to find it, because EVERYTHING is overpriced on BOTH auction houses.


    The price that things are selling at isn't as relevant as it first appears. If you get some item drop worth x gold and price it appropriately on the AH, you'll get back .85 * x gold which you can then spend to buy some item useful to your build. In this case, it doesn't matter if x is 100 gold or 1 billion gold. It does matter relative to actual gold drops, but at least for me, gold drops have only been a small percentage of the total gold I've spent on my current gear. Probably 80 to 90% of that gold came from selling drops on the AH.

    If we're talking about prices people list things for but don't actually get, then that's a self-correcting problem. It takes time, but people will lower their prices as their items continute to not sell. That process should go a little faster now that people can cancel auctions though.
    ...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
  • #51
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    My 15 Mil Monk (able to finish the game), my 8 Mil WD (able to start Act 3 for now), my 12 Mil Barbarian (able to do Act 3), and my 8 Mil DH (able to farm Act 2, with 180 base MF) all disagree that things are overpriced :P


    I've probably sunk in less than 8mil total across all five of my characters and post-patch they can all at least comfortably farm act2. My barb (worth about 5mil) cleared act3 pre-patch (chock it up to the class if you want, but i didn't use tornado build) and my WD is now clearing act3 with little problem on basically nothing but items I found. I bought a helm for her last night because I wanted something to socket a ruby in. That ran her total up to around 10k gold, lol.

    Inferno is quite doable now with almost no gold investment.
  • #52
    It almost seems superfluous replying when so many good points have been made already.
    • As hi19hi18 said, the correct price for an item - not overpriced, not underpriced - is whatever someone is willing to pay and the seller is willing to accept.
    • If someone lists an items for a price that you believe is ridiculous, like 2 billion gold, one of two things will happen. Either it will sell, in which case the price was not actually ridiculous. Or it will not sell, in which case, what harm was done by someone tying up one of his 10 AH slots for a day and a half listing it?
    • You cannot, cannot put a cap on AH prices. 25 million cap on weapons? Fine. My godly legendary is now available for sale for offers starting at 10 radiant star gems. Place your bids.
    • But ultimately, what it boils down to is this: items of a quality which is rare enough that only a small portion of the playerbase will ever see them drop must by definition be valued at a price that only a small portion of the playerbase will ever be able to afford. You simply cannot buy an item that only a thousand people have drop for a price that a million people could happily pay. It doesn't work.
    Oh, and while we're anecdoting - pretty sure I've spend well under 500k on gear, and I've cleared Act 1 and 2 Inferno happily. I need to invest before I can handle Act 3, though. Luckily, in my time in Act 2, I've sold one item for 7.5 million and another for 2 million. Plenty of cash in my war chest for upgrades, regardless of whether or not people are trying to sell the godliest drops for billions.
  • #53
    Free market is important. You can list for 10 trillion but its only worth that much if at least 1 buyer is willing to buy it. It also allows for the AH to decide what an item is worth.

    High prices are not necessarily bad for new players. These players will find that what they want to sell is worth more in general inflation. Conversely, they will find that they can afford more if prices are low. Neither is bad.
  • #54
    Quote from proletaria

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    My 15 Mil Monk (able to finish the game), my 8 Mil WD (able to start Act 3 for now), my 12 Mil Barbarian (able to do Act 3), and my 8 Mil DH (able to farm Act 2, with 180 base MF) all disagree that things are overpriced :P


    I've probably sunk in less than 8mil total across all five of my characters and post-patch they can all at least comfortably farm act2. My barb (worth about 5mil) cleared act3 pre-patch (chock it up to the class if you want, but i didn't use tornado build) and my WD is now clearing act3 with little problem on basically nothing but items I found. I bought a helm for her last night because I wanted something to socket a ruby in. That ran her total up to around 10k gold, lol.

    Inferno is quite doable now with almost no gold investment.

    Yeah, my estimates there are probably badly wrong, because I don't really keep track of what I buy. I've bought really good stuff that I'm still using (and can't find upgrades for less than 1 mil) for 50k or 100k, specially on snipe bids.

    The few things I know I paid a ton were a couple weapons (2.5 mil on the Barb's Three Hundredth Spear, 4.5 mil on the WD's weapon, 4.6 mil on the Monk's weapon), but appart from that everything else was probably pretty cheap (less than 1 mil), so my estimates could be very wrong.
  • #55
    If you found a piece of diamond, it'll cost as if its a piece of diamond...
    If you found a rusty nail, it'll cost as if its a rusty nail...

    in other words,

    If you can't afford BIS and start crying all over and wanted attention, GTFO...

    whats the point of this topic btw?
  • #56
    I'm godlike misery and will not buy anything above 500k normally. The highest thing I ever bought was a 6 affix belt recipy at 1.5m back when. I'm also grabbing all the <200k 6 socket recipies on US AH now.
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