"Why Diablo 3 is Broken"

  • #42
    Quote from PsiStorm


    No one is finding good upgrades for them selves, and if they do, in most cases it's better to sell it and buy several other pieces for a larger overall upgrade. C'mon now, anyone reading at all?


    Yes, yes, we're reading.

    Except that it's exactly the same as in D2, unless you refused to trade.


    Except it's not, trading is obviously the most efficient way to get loot in both games. In D2 you just got rewarded more often so it made sense to farm, in D3 you're better off playing the AH than the game. You make more gold pr hour by sniping/playing the AH than you could ever do on average by farming champions/bosses. Which is true for d2 too to some extent, except d2 required you to interact with people in game or on forums. Do people not see the discrepancy in quality of drops between the 2 games?
  • #43
    The thing is, you could always have a goal in D2. Like, get more MF for my MF sorc, or more DPS gear for my PVPbowzon, or increase that DPS on my Javazon so she could grind all the way to 99.

    In D3, I got the MF cap, I got 90k dps with 800 AR. Thanks to AH, I got all the gear I needed in 3 months, instead of a year.

    Err what now? Just farm gold to what? Farm gold? My gold is pushing 300 mil, and there's nothing to buy, why would I spent 200million on +10 int to a slot. I could buy more gear for my Barb, but what for? To do the same thing my wiz does, farm act3? Why?

    And like the guy above said all the cool little things that kept farming from becoming a snorefest, like loot-pinata bosses, and horadic cube gambling, and leveling up all the way to 99.
  • #44
    Quote from Zergie

    The thing is, you could always have a goal in D2. Like, get more MF for my MF sorc, or more DPS gear for my PVPbowzon, or increase that DPS on my Javazon so she could grind all the way to 99.

    In D3, I got the MF cap, I got 90k dps with 800 AR. Thanks to AH, I got all the gear I needed in 3 months, instead of a year.

    Err what now? Just farm gold to what? Farm gold? My gold is pushing 300 mil, and there's nothing to buy, why would I spent 200million on +10 int to a slot. I could buy more gear for my Barb, but what for? To do the same thing my wiz does, farm act3? Why?

    And like the guy above said all the cool little things that kept farming from becoming a snorefest, like loot-pinata bosses, and horadic cube gambling, and leveling up all the way to 99.


    Read the whole thread it's been noted there is lacking end game (among many others). If you want something else to do play hardcore or start a new character that never uses the AH or just take a break and play something else.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #45
    If you are complaining about nothing to do and you have only leveled one character to 60 then it's time to take a break from the game. There are four other classes you could be dinking around on and, if it's your cup of tea, hardcore mode.
  • #46
    Quote from Slayerviper

    Read the whole thread it's been noted there is lacking end game (among many others). If you want something else to do play hardcore or start a new character that never uses the AH or just take a break and play something else.


    No, it's far more fun to troll forums constantly and whine about shit that Blizzard has already said they want to fix. THE FIXES ARE NOT HERE YESTERDAY THEREFORE BLIZZARD IS FAIL.

    Also, the XFire statistic? XFire was causing the D3 client to crash. That's why D3 populations according to XFire dropped off. People couldn't play D3 while running XFire.

    http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Diablo_III#Overlays

    That alone makes the OpEd tenuous because it seems that his entire argument is based on the fact that there was a massive dropoff which he wrongly attributed to people disliking the game. The XFire dropoff was entirely due to a technical problem. It has very little to do with people liking or disliking the game. It has everything to do with overlays and D3 not playing together well.

    This is a documented issue. Failure to include this in said article is rather telling of the editorial process at The Escapist. Apparently people can make any claims they want and publish an editorial there and there is no process that ensures that the most basic of facts are sourced properly. Anyone who did a quick Google search for "xfire d3 client crash" would be able to figure out exactly why there was such a severe dropoff in xfire numbers.

    The information isn't hiding, it's just that people don't want to be objective.

    I'm not going to say that D3 doesn't have problems. Of course it does. But it's journalistically irresponsible to not properly investigate your claims. I realize that editorials are not necessarily journalistically-sound documents, and that's probably yet another reason that everything you read on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt.
    p450 :: 92.2k EK :: 2.54m TK
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #47
    You really think, factual or not, that the game has kept it's 10 ish million players entertained and playing still? Obviously it hasn't and the original article hints at that by producing links to the only information/facts we have about this proposed decline. Xfire numbers may have an explanation, but the other links? Really? The issues brought up are spot on and the complaint within the article is shared by at least a few. I still think the game will be fine and lots of improvement to come, this doesn't in any way subtract by the concerns shared/brought to attention by this thread and the original article.
  • #48
    I don't keep up with all the forum posts and blue talk. I've been paying more attention lately because of 1.0.4. This caught my eye because...

    I've had the exact same experience as the writer of this article and agree with his 'problem' analysis. I'm not sure what the fix is though. It's kinda nice to know others have this issue.

    In addition to his experience, I've struggled to grow my gold and finally hit a point where farming to buy the next upgrade on the AH was just too much... work. My gold was depleted from buying items on the AH and dying trying to make progress. I'm sure dying is mostly my fault. It's hard to shake the Blue posts from the past that say, "...You're gonna die a lot in inferno..."

    I'm a fan and would like to play more, but I've quit playing my WD (ActIII Inferno). Maybe once a week I play a HC Barb.

    And for the final personal vent...
    Pre release, Blizzard touted the fact that the game had been in development for so long (10y?). The story, graphics, and general game play are great; but don't make me wait that long and then turn me away in 170+ hours. Hindsight 20/20, right...?
  • #49
    Quote from rupj

    I don't keep up with all the forum posts and blue talk. I've been paying more attention lately because of 1.0.4. This caught my eye because...

    I've had the exact same experience as the writer of this article and agree with his 'problem' analysis. I'm not sure what the fix is though. It's kinda nice to know others have this issue.

    In addition to his experience, I've struggled to grow my gold and finally hit a point where farming to buy the next upgrade on the AH was just too much... work. My gold was depleted from buying items on the AH and dying trying to make progress. I'm sure dying is mostly my fault. It's hard to shake the Blue posts from the past that say, "...You're gonna die a lot in inferno..."

    I'm a fan and would like to play more, but I've quit playing my WD (ActIII Inferno). Maybe once a week I play a HC Barb.

    And for the final personal vent...
    Pre release, Blizzard touted the fact that the game had been in development for so long (10y?). The story, graphics, and general game play are great; but don't make me wait that long and then turn me away in 170+ hours. Hindsight 20/20, right...?


    5 years and how many hours did you put on the D2 release before getting fed up? I bet less than 170.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #50
    Quote from Sandgnome

    Xfire numbers may have an explanation, but the other links? Really?


    It doesn't matter to me. I want objective reporting and the way he used the XFire numbers as the backbone of his argument calls into question any degree of objectiveness he might have had.

    It's like a reporter claiming that the Yankees are the best baseball team ever but not disclosing that they're sleeping with Derek Jeter. Even small inaccuracies call into question the veracity of the rest of the statements.

    Do I think everyone who purchased D3 is still playing it? No. I'm not a lunatic.

    Do I think that 80% gave up on it? No. In fact there was some proof on the b.net forums that several people who were very adamant that they quit the game because Blizzard/D3 sucks, etc., etc., etc. were proven to be liars when the D3 armory went live. I think most people who are playing D3 are playing fewer hours per week and probably fewer days per week, but that's the status quo for Diablo titles and any other similar game.

    I think there are a very vocal group of people, maybe 250-500k strong who would lead us to believe they are the majority. Bear in mind that Blizzard has publically stated numerous times throughout the lifespan of WoW that a small minority of players who play the game are actually posting on the forums. It stands to reason that people who are not posting on the forums have either silently quit or are still playing. Either way it's a very different picture from the people who are ranting and raving and making skewed OpEd pieces like this guy.

    Furthermore, his OpEd was posted on August 8th.... after Blizzard had been working on this 1.0.4 presumably for about a month. His article would have been much more relevant mid-June. Posting that 6 weeks later, though, is just rehashing a bunch of shit we have been through before and much of which Blizzard has committed to fixing.

    Instead of looking to the past to whine he could have looked to the future and been constructive.

    EDIT
    I mean as a bit of anecdotal brain exercises.

    There were two people on my friends list who quit D3 within two weeks because it didn't have Recount/WoL and they couldn't brag about their in-game performance. Now, I know people like that are NOT the majority of people who have quit the game, but can we at least agree that some people are quitting for completely ridiculous reasons that true Diablo fans are better off if Blizzard doesn't address?

    I mean at some point the complaints become entirely irrational. People who want to lord their leet in-game (ie: not character sheet) DEEPS over people are never going to be pleased with D3. We can at least agree that those two players lost are better off forgotten, right?
    p450 :: 92.2k EK :: 2.54m TK
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #51
    Sure, I don't think we're much in disagreement really. I just think the point, him stating it or not, was very valid and have reposted it in different forms on this forum. With how the class previews turned out I'm expecting to be disappointed with the MF blog, because, as the original article and I have pointed out; the chance to find "good" loot is astronomical. Allow me to quote from another forum:

    "the problem with D3 is instead of playing like a slot machine (win a little bit every time you play, every once in a while hit the jackpot) it plays like the lottery (almost impossible to win anything). D2 played like a slot machine. you got some upgrades every time you played, even if they were minor, and every so often you hit the jackpot with a perfect drop. that gambling type addiction is what made people play for years on end. D3 is like playing the powerball; yeah it's awesome if you hit it, but it's all or nothing and playing for endless hours without even one piece of decent loot is frustrating as shit. add the fact that the game isn't that much fun to play to begin with (acts are lame, dungeons uninspiring, cheesy story, unkillable champ packs, grouping is a hindrance instead of an asset, etc...) and you have the current mess that is D3." @ http://www.fohguild....tml#post2479943
  • #52
    Why is ppl comparing D3 with D2 and at the result of that comparison make conclusions?, its absurd.

    I never played D2 online, I only played singleplayer, why?, dont know, in that kind of games I like to play alone, and I had LOTS of fun, I even could make some nice runewords on my javazon (after a long time of playing, of course).

    I really do want to play D3, Im actually going to play it once 1.04 is alive, there are a lots of new stuff im interested in testing out, but I think, that after some days or weeks, Ill stop playing it. That didnt hapen in D2, why?, is what Im trying to understand.
  • #53
    Quote from proletaria

    Quote from DerfOnTurf

    I don't think I will ever log in or visit this site again. Time to move on.


    I welcome this sentiment. I hope more people who've got it out for D3 take this route and stop polluting the forums.


    I love you.

    PS- Please have mah babies.
  • #54
    Quote from Zergie

    The thing is, you could always have a goal in D2. Like, get more MF for my MF sorc, or more DPS gear for my PVPbowzon, or increase that DPS on my Javazon so she could grind all the way to 99.

    In D3, I got the MF cap, I got 90k dps with 800 AR. Thanks to AH, I got all the gear I needed in 3 months, instead of a year.

    Err what now? Just farm gold to what? Farm gold? My gold is pushing 300 mil, and there's nothing to buy, why would I spent 200million on +10 int to a slot. I could buy more gear for my Barb, but what for? To do the same thing my wiz does, farm act3? Why?

    And like the guy above said all the cool little things that kept farming from becoming a snorefest, like loot-pinata bosses, and horadic cube gambling, and leveling up all the way to 99.


    If you are sitting on 300million gold (bullshit) then why not hook paypal to your Battle.net account and sell it on RMAH and make some $$ off a video game? I have sold nearly 100mil gold on RMAH so far, I love making money playing a video game.

    Quote from Indimix

    Why is ppl comparing D3 with D2 and at the result of that comparison make conclusions?, its absurd.

    I never played D2 online, I only played singleplayer, why?, dont know, in that kind of games I like to play alone, and I had LOTS of fun, I even could make some nice runewords on my javazon (after a long time of playing, of course).

    I really do want to play D3, Im actually going to play it once 1.04 is alive, there are a lots of new stuff im interested in testing out, but I think, that after some days or weeks, Ill stop playing it. That didnt hapen in D2, why?, is what Im trying to understand.


    Absurd? The endgame of both games is the exact same -pvp. You farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger to farm for more gear to get stronger.

    What is so absurb about this comparison? You think D2 had more of this than D3? Are you going to claim the differences is runes? Because that would be absurd since runes and charms only appeared post expansion, as they likely will with D3. Rose tinted nostalgia glasses FTL IMO.
  • #55
    Quote from Zergie

    The thing is, you could always have a goal in D2. Like, get more MF for my MF sorc, or more DPS gear for my PVPbowzon, or increase that DPS on my Javazon so she could grind all the way to 99.

    In D3, I got the MF cap, I got 90k dps with 800 AR. Thanks to AH, I got all the gear I needed in 3 months, instead of a year.

    Err what now? Just farm gold to what? Farm gold? My gold is pushing 300 mil, and there's nothing to buy, why would I spent 200million on +10 int to a slot. I could buy more gear for my Barb, but what for? To do the same thing my wiz does, farm act3? Why?

    And like the guy above said all the cool little things that kept farming from becoming a snorefest, like loot-pinata bosses, and horadic cube gambling, and leveling up all the way to 99.


    I just don't get it. Yeah, maybe you hit the MF cap, but otherwise it's the same, you can still work on getting more DPS for different characters or buy gear sets to try out different play styles.

    PVP is missing, but will come eventually.

    And about farming... it was all the same. Sure, more sets and uniques dropped, but most of them were crap anyways. I found a very small number of uniques that actually had some value, I sold those (for SOJ, since the economy was completely broken of course) to buy gear for my Assassin. Now I do the same, I farm, I find useful rares and sell them to buy gear for my Monk. Once in a while I actually find an upgrade, like the 299 dex, vit, double resist boots that dropped for me a few days ago.

    Now, while the content is the same, the environment is much better. I don't have to shout in trade to buy and sell, there are less dupes and less scams, I don't get shouted at for not having maphack on my MF sorc when joining Baal runs...
  • #56
    Quote from Indimix

    I just wanted to share this article with you, and to hear some feedback about what you think about it.

    To the lazy ones:


    I would love to find a belt. You wouldn't believe the raw ecstasy that locating such a modest piece of fashion would give me right now. Seriously. I'd probably leap up from my chair, holler a high-pitched "woohoo" at the ceiling fan, and close with a fist-pump for good measure. But, the sad truth of the matter is, I probably never will find that belt - at least not one I can use - and I'm just not willing to give up another hour of my life for better-fitting pants. I'm quitting Diablo III.
    Now, let me get just one thing out in the open: I do like Diablo III - at least, I like most of it. To date, I've thrown nearly 200 hours into cleansing the lands of Sanctuary, have raised two max-level characters from diapers to Depth Diggers, and have personally murdered The Butcher more times than the Templar has asked if I've "seen that enemy over there!" (which, if you know Kormac, is quite a lot). My problem with Diablo III isn't the time I've already invested, it's the fact that's there's not much of a reason to add to it.

    The fact that Diablo III has end-game issues shouldn't be too surprising; Blizzard's own community manager even went on record stating the company's failure in providing what he called "a proper end-game," citing a lack of both "things to do" and a reason for players to "stay excited." Heck, even Blizzard's CEO, Mike Morhaime felt the need to write an open letter to players that addressed common controversies; server overloads, that always-online requirement, and the game's addition of a Real Money Auction House all made the list. So, assuming Blizzard has noticed Diablo III's rapidly declining playerbase - Xfire shows an 80% drop in the past two months - and is actually willing to discuss problems openly with its flagging community, then what's the problem? Why haven't we seen a fix? The answer isn't pretty: There isn't one.
    To better understand the issue, we should first look at the game's older brother, Diablo II. Diablo II was a defining moment for its genre, either introducing or perfecting mechanics that its competetors struggled to emulate for the ten years following its launch. During its lifetime (which, arguably, hasn't even ended yet), Diablo II was able to maintain a large and dedicated playerbase, so perhaps it seemed reasonable to someone at Blizzard that carrying much of the core gameplay into a sequel would produce equivalent, or even better results. You can see this thought process pretty clearly when looking at Diablo III - for better or worse, the two share far more than they don't.
    For one thing, both games are circular. Unlike shooters or more standard RPGs, your difficulty is, at least when starting, chosen for you. A player's first lap around the campaigns' four Acts of content is locked on Normal; you start from nothing, slowly building up your inventory and skill set while monsters are restricted to weak attacks and low fortitude. As you progress, you find more powerful items, and with them, you can fight more powerful foes. Those more powerful foes drop even more powerful items, and with those, you can fight even morepowerful foes. Those foes then drop even more ... well, you get the idea. This critical cycle churns each Act while simultaneously repeating on a grander scale as you cross from Normal to Nightmare to Hell, and finally, Inferno. If you're the sort who digs this form of core play, then Diablo III is the prime example of a near-perfect, self-sustaining system at work. At least, it would be, had Blizzard not made the game-breaking mistake of tacking the Auction House to its side like a misplaced rod jutting out from a wheel.
    On the surface, the Auction House seems a fantastic idea. Statistically speaking, a player could run through the rings of Diablo III a hundred, a thousand, even a million times or more and still never loot the exact item he or she's been looking for. That's the glory, the genius, and the eternal frustration of having randomly-generated loot. That's also the fuel that powers Diablo II's lingering verve, a component sorely lacking from its sequel. While it certainly feels good, in an instant-gratification sort of way, to simply go shopping for those +12% movement speed boots, or that socketed Helm of Command whenever you like, your ability to do so decimates the experience the farther you tread into the game.
    The Auction House isn't simply an add-on, it's literally a game changer. Because players have full access to hundreds of thousands of items they'd statistically never interact with during natural play, enemies in the game have to accommodate by providing a challenge equivalent to superior gear. And it's not just about item level; it's about options. Stacking certain stats, and designing your gear set with an encompassing strategy (as opposed to the "this is the best helmet I've found, these are the best boots"-type scavenging otherwise required) is a colossal boon to any aspiring Nephalem. In fact, the advantage is so substantial that the game's difficulty is adjusted to it by necessity, thereby reinforcing, if not demanding, the Auction House's use to remain competitive against the A.I.
    During the first few laps of the game, Normal and Nightmare, this isn't a problem. Auction House gear is expensive enough to force players to find a balance between looted items and purchased ones, leaving players with the thrill of gear hunting while adding what may, at the time, even be considered a mildly fun distraction from demon thrashing: shopping in the community marketplace. Journeying into Nightmare, however, places the burden of gear (and by extension, power) advancement almost exclusively on that shopping. But even if you lucked out, and were still somehow wearing one or two personal drops for your third matchup against the Prime Evil at the end of Nightmare, the likelihood of even one of those items remaining competitive by the time you hit Inferno is next to nothing. Suddenly, that cycle of finding stronger loot to slay stronger monsters has, for the first time, abruptly broken, hereafter trading the joy of item hunting for what's soon little more than endless rounds of gold farming to finance mindless bargain sifting.
    In my nearly 100 hours playing Inferno (which have been almost exclusively in Acts I & II), the majority of the math has gone something like this: Every hour, I leave about 150 items where they fall, and find about 100 more worth picking up. After selling off most of those to the nearest merchant, I'm usually left with about 15 Rares, of which, about one is good enough to peddle in the Auction House every third run or so. In not one of those runs have I ever found something worth actually equipping myself. Multiply those figures out by the total time put in, and you have a system that's given me a mind-boggling 25,000 items to choose from, without so much as a single ring or pair of pants that could help me through the very mode I play to earn them. Sure, I also gathered about 15 million gold during the same stretch - enough to upgrade perhaps three of the thirteen items that just one of my characters uses via the Auction House - but that's just not why I started playing this game. At some point, Diablo III became less about the excitement of finding a new sword or accessory, and more about cold calculations, the difference between playing poker with friends, and hopelessly trying to outwit the dealer at a casino.
    So, to Blizzard: The problem is not that we "don't have things to do." We've the same things to do as we ever did: arrive in Tristram, ascend to the heavens, and kill everything in between. The problem is that you changed the game we were playing midway through, stripping it of the element instrumental to making Diablo fun. So, that said, I'll make you a deal. I'll meet you back in Sanctuary the moment you can promise me that at least once, justonce in my next 200 hours, I'll finally find that damn belt.




    "Wall of text crits you for 12182617257812752"
    "You have died"
  • #57
    "In my nearly 100 hours playing Inferno (which have been almost exclusively in Acts I & II)"
    "Sure, I also gathered about 15 million gold during the same stretch - enough to upgrade perhaps three of the thirteen items that just one of my characters uses via the Auction House"


    Spending 5 million on a single piece of gear is completely unnecessary, unless he was just that bad of a player, was very inexperienced with the ah, or is simply exaggerating.
  • #58
    Quote from Cinnamohn

    "In my nearly 100 hours playing Inferno (which have been almost exclusively in Acts I & II)"
    "Sure, I also gathered about 15 million gold during the same stretch - enough to upgrade perhaps three of the thirteen items that just one of my characters uses via the Auction House"


    Spending 5 million on a single piece of gear is completely unnecessary, unless he was just that bad of a player, was very inexperienced with the ah, or is simply exaggerating.


    You must be a wizard or demon hunter.
  • #59
    Quote from Typho

    Quote from Cinnamohn

    "In my nearly 100 hours playing Inferno (which have been almost exclusively in Acts I & II)"
    "Sure, I also gathered about 15 million gold during the same stretch - enough to upgrade perhaps three of the thirteen items that just one of my characters uses via the Auction House"


    Spending 5 million on a single piece of gear is completely unnecessary, unless he was just that bad of a player, was very inexperienced with the ah, or is simply exaggerating.


    You must be a wizard or demon hunter.


    My barb started act3 (s/b revenge, not tornado build), completed it, and moved into act4 without spending more than 6mil. He speaks the truth. The only way 15mil would only buy three items is if you were aiming for an act3 farming set. I dare say that was intended to be a very high benchmark and something that appears to be coming down with the next patch's nerfs to affixes and elite pack hp.
  • #60
    Quote from Typho

    Quote from Cinnamohn

    "In my nearly 100 hours playing Inferno (which have been almost exclusively in Acts I & II)"
    "Sure, I also gathered about 15 million gold during the same stretch - enough to upgrade perhaps three of the thirteen items that just one of my characters uses via the Auction House"


    Spending 5 million on a single piece of gear is completely unnecessary, unless he was just that bad of a player, was very inexperienced with the ah, or is simply exaggerating.


    You must be a wizard or demon hunter.


    or a monk, or Barbarian, (im to sleepy to find the WD one) but you don't need to spend lots of money on gear. you can even spend no money, it just takes a rather...... long.. time, but by all means it can be done (and people have).

    It's just all about how fast you want to get done.
  • #61
    So spot on I might be sick, been trying to find someone who can word my feelings for Diablo 3, thank you for putting it in words I can understand.

    There is a distinct difference between fun and a grind, and Diablo 3 just feels like a grind, all the time. In nearly 300 hours of play I found one legendary, ONE and even then it was useless... who in there right mind makes the hardest to find items in the game crapper than the easier ones?
    LAWLAWLAWLAWLAWLAWLAWLAWL? - Never trust a man, whom when left in a room with a tea cosey, does not try it on.
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