Hi, i've been curios, is there any official explaination on how the Life Steal mechanics work ? I noticed that the value shown in the character screen does not actually do what it says, example:
I'm at 8.1% Life Steal - I crit for 200k, now according to what the character screen says, I should heal 16200 HP or not ? Anyways it's not the case the green numbers I'm seeing hoover around 1-3k tops.
Life StealThe effectiveness of the Life Steal affix – which restores your Life by a percentage of the damage you deal – is reduced in advanced difficulties, as shown: Normal: 100% Nightmare: 70% Hell: 40% Inferno: 20%
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
Which is why everyone wants Life on Hit instead of Lifesteal. I would like to see this buffed, even 30% in inferno would make the stat much more appealing.
If you have high enough dps - for example as ww barb - then lifesteal is definitly better then life on hit.
Um pretty sure LoH is more powerful than lifesteal for ww barbs, since each tick of the tornado doesn't really hit that hard, only like 18k to 20k crits for me, but each tick does proc LoH, and LoH heals the same amount every time, instead of relying on RNG to crit big for a decent heal. Tornadoes heal for 20% of your LoH each tick, but even so if you had 1200 LoH, Thats 240 life for not that much LoH. If you had perfect LL rolls on two weapons and a mighty belt (9% LL), you would need to be hitting for an average of 13500 per tornado tick to equal this.
Ideally you would collect both stats, I have 5.8% LL and 1360 LoH and between the two I get healed quite a bit. But it definitely feels that they over nerfed LL while in the beta phase of the game.
But each skills has it's own Loh modifier, and for WW it's very very low. When i tested with 1000 loh with ww barb it was so minimal i pretty much didn't even heal at all. Frenzy with high loh > WW with high loh.
WW accounts for a VERY minimal amount of damage done by WW barbs, the majority of the damage is done by sprint torandoes, which do heal you quite a bit given that they tick so fast.
Tornadoes heal for 20% of your LoH each tick, but even so if you had 1200 LoH, Thats 240 life for not that much LoH. If you had perfect LL rolls on two weapons and a mighty belt (9% LL), you would need to be hitting for an average of 13500 per tornado tick to equal this.
^ you may not have seen this, I edited my post with this example of why I say LoH is superior for a WW barb
LoH's benefit is static ( and for some skills its weak as, due to the modifier ).
LL's benefit scales with your dps, the better your gear gets, the better LL gets, hence the massive nerf.
Once you get into the top-tier of gear and dps, the amazingness of LL is revealed.
Much like MF.
Agreed.
But If you were to obtain gear with perfect LL roll vs perfect LoH rolls, I think you would find LoH to still be better in many situations than LL. For LL to be superior, it needs to work off of a big crit, which is probably less than half of your attacks even in top end gear. Normal white hits will not be awe inspiring with LL whereas LoH will always give you the same good heal.
The max LL you can achieve is 12%. If you don't use LoH gems you can get 900+ on weapons, 300+ on rings, 650+ on neck. Thats over 3k LoH. At 12% LL, you would have to be hitting for an average of 130k or so per swing to equal it. You are talking Billions of gold in items.
As a glascannon DH LL would be useful to me only against Damage Reflect monsters, but since it only heals a small portion of the reflected damage, the benefit is negligible.
Saying this because Life Steal sounds like a natural counter to Damage Reflect to me. Luckily we have Shadow Power: Gloom against these elites, but it feels awkward to keep this ability in my build just because of one elite affix.
If you have high enough dps - for example as ww barb - then lifesteal is definitly better then life on hit.
You'll get better results with LoH, but you can get free live steal from mighty belt for babs and live steal works extremly well with Wrath of the Berserker (Slaughter) that blows elites in 10 sec with obscene dmg - i often faceroll molten/chains without worries using this skill and rune with measly 3% LS.
The max LL you can achieve is 12%. If you don't use LoH gems you can get 900+ on weapons, 300+ on rings, 650+ on neck. Thats over 3k LoH. At 12% LL, you would have to be hitting for an average of 130k or so per swing to equal it. You are talking Billions of gold in items.
I want to point out that you CAN NOT fairly compare total loh vs total life steal. You should only compare 959 loh vs 3% lifesteal, but then again how many people have 959 weapons. So what I did in my comparison was assumed 3/6% life steal and different values of LOH.
For me as a monk using my normal skills at 84k unbuffed char sheet dmg or greater 6% life steal > 1959 loh. You can divide the damage and loh by the same % to get break points for lower values of LOH vs 6% life steal. Again this is using my skill set on a monk, you would have to math it out for your class based on coefficients and whatever skills you use.. Just to put it in perspective there are monks with over 120k unbuffed char sheet dmg.
It's important to note that the generator I went with has the most OP LOH coefficient(it's also the most popular) so if you were to change that, the break points would be sooner.
LOH works on aoe. Just not as well as life steal. However you'll still get a fair comparison basing it on single target.The only difference is you would have to account for things that do hit and not proc LOH but do damage.
Sweeping winds and cyclone for example do a significant amount of damage and don't proc loh, they also hit 360 and out of range of your normal attack.
I want to point out that you CAN NOT fairly compare total loh vs total life steal. You should only compare 959 loh vs 3% lifesteal, ...
I read your other thread earlier as this topic appears quite regularly. Good stuff for articulating the Monk example. What I do not really appreciate is the statement that comparing potential totals break fairness? Obviously much easier to compare just what is gained solely on weapons but what was your rationale for marginalising any other source or LS or LoH please? You go to pains to point out "CAN NOT" so you clearly have a reason. Sorry if you made it clear in the previous thread, I must have missed it.
I want to point out that you CAN NOT fairly compare total loh vs total life steal. You should only compare 959 loh vs 3% lifesteal, ...
I read your other thread earlier as this topic appears quite regularly. Good stuff for articulating the Monk example. What I do not really appreciate is the statement that comparing potential totals break fairness? Obviously much easier to compare just what is gained solely on weapons but what was your rationale for marginalising any other source or LS or LoH please? You go to pains to point out "CAN NOT" so you clearly have a reason. Sorry if you made it clear in the previous thread, I must have missed it.
Because it's an apples to oranges comparison. It's comparing 5+ stats against 2. That isn't even counting the legendaries that give LOH or sockets. How is that fair?
You do not have to make a choice between life steal and life on hit anywhere except the weapon. Therefore that's the only time the "Life steal vs LOH" question should arise.
*My* ideal weapon is ; Crit dmg, enhanced dmg, socket, physical/elemental dmg, 200 primary or 150/150 secondary, and then I decide between loh or life steal.
All you're really deciding is what is the most valuable 6 stats for any given item. Your build may have 6% life leech from weapons while having 1000+ LOH from rings/neck. That's perfectly okay. Maybe you buy that life steal weapon and decide to socket it for life on hit, that's okay too. Maybe you're a barb and just get the 3% life steal belt because LOH is better for your build so you get that elsewhere.
It should never be about I have (X) LOH so life on hit is worthless or I have (Y) life steal so LOH is worthless.
I mean fair is subjective so this is just an opinion, but that is my reason for it.
The max LL you can achieve is 12%. If you don't use LoH gems you can get 900+ on weapons, 300+ on rings, 650+ on neck. Thats over 3k LoH. At 12% LL, you would have to be hitting for an average of 130k or so per swing to equal it. You are talking Billions of gold in items.
I want to point out that you CAN NOT fairly compare total loh vs total life steal. You should only compare 959 loh vs 3% lifesteal, but then again how many people have 959 weapons. So what I did in my comparison was assumed 3/6% life steal and different values of LOH.
My comparison was specific to Barbarians, for whom I think it is fair to do this kind of comparison since they can get twice the amount LL as other classes with a mighty belt and the Bloodthirst passive.
I'm certainly not saying that LoH is superior to LL in every case, and if it seemed that way my apologies. LL is quite impressive in AOE situations. I was mainly making my point that for Barbarians, specifically WW barbs, LoH is really the priority.
The max LL you can achieve is 12%. If you don't use LoH gems you can get 900+ on weapons, 300+ on rings, 650+ on neck. Thats over 3k LoH. At 12% LL, you would have to be hitting for an average of 130k or so per swing to equal it. You are talking Billions of gold in items.
I want to point out that you CAN NOT fairly compare total loh vs total life steal. You should only compare 959 loh vs 3% lifesteal, but then again how many people have 959 weapons. So what I did in my comparison was assumed 3/6% life steal and different values of LOH.
My comparison was specific to Barbarians, for whom I think it is fair to do this kind of comparison since they can get twice the amount LL as other classes with a mighty belt and the Bloodthirst passive.
I'm certainly not saying that LoH is superior to LL in every case, and if it seemed that way my apologies. LL is quite impressive in AOE situations. I was mainly making my point that for Barbarians, specifically WW barbs, LoH is really the priority.
That's fine and all but I don't see it as a fair comparison because you're not comparing equally. You're comparing a potential 9+ items vs 4.
You can race my bike in your street car of choice on a track. Is that fair? Then we'll consider the winner the better driver.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm at 8.1% Life Steal - I crit for 200k, now according to what the character screen says, I should heal 16200 HP or not ? Anyways it's not the case the green numbers I'm seeing hoover around 1-3k tops.
Is this explained somewhere ?
taken from http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/gameplay/game-difficulty
Life StealThe effectiveness of the Life Steal affix – which restores your Life by a percentage of the damage you deal – is reduced in advanced difficulties, as shown: Normal: 100% Nightmare: 70% Hell: 40% Inferno: 20%
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
Ideally you would collect both stats, I have 5.8% LL and 1360 LoH and between the two I get healed quite a bit. But it definitely feels that they over nerfed LL while in the beta phase of the game.
WW accounts for a VERY minimal amount of damage done by WW barbs, the majority of the damage is done by sprint torandoes, which do heal you quite a bit given that they tick so fast.
^ you may not have seen this, I edited my post with this example of why I say LoH is superior for a WW barb
LL's benefit scales with your dps, the better your gear gets, the better LL gets, hence the massive nerf.
Once you get into the top-tier of gear and dps, the amazingness of LL is revealed.
Much like MF.
But If you were to obtain gear with perfect LL roll vs perfect LoH rolls, I think you would find LoH to still be better in many situations than LL. For LL to be superior, it needs to work off of a big crit, which is probably less than half of your attacks even in top end gear. Normal white hits will not be awe inspiring with LL whereas LoH will always give you the same good heal.
The max LL you can achieve is 12%. If you don't use LoH gems you can get 900+ on weapons, 300+ on rings, 650+ on neck. Thats over 3k LoH. At 12% LL, you would have to be hitting for an average of 130k or so per swing to equal it. You are talking Billions of gold in items.
Saying this because Life Steal sounds like a natural counter to Damage Reflect to me. Luckily we have Shadow Power: Gloom against these elites, but it feels awkward to keep this ability in my build just because of one elite affix.
You'll get better results with LoH, but you can get free live steal from mighty belt for babs and live steal works extremly well with Wrath of the Berserker (Slaughter) that blows elites in 10 sec with obscene dmg - i often faceroll molten/chains without worries using this skill and rune with measly 3% LS.
Feared/Frozen/Shielded and not enough AR, you get dropped in a second.
I don't see how this changes the situation if you are stacking LoH or LL, either way its a bad situation .
I want to point out that you CAN NOT fairly compare total loh vs total life steal. You should only compare 959 loh vs 3% lifesteal, but then again how many people have 959 weapons. So what I did in my comparison was assumed 3/6% life steal and different values of LOH.
For me as a monk using my normal skills at 84k unbuffed char sheet dmg or greater 6% life steal > 1959 loh. You can divide the damage and loh by the same % to get break points for lower values of LOH vs 6% life steal. Again this is using my skill set on a monk, you would have to math it out for your class based on coefficients and whatever skills you use.. Just to put it in perspective there are monks with over 120k unbuffed char sheet dmg.
It's important to note that the generator I went with has the most OP LOH coefficient(it's also the most popular) so if you were to change that, the break points would be sooner.
If you want to read more http://www.diablofan...4069-lifesteal/
LOH works on aoe. Just not as well as life steal. However you'll still get a fair comparison basing it on single target.The only difference is you would have to account for things that do hit and not proc LOH but do damage.
Sweeping winds and cyclone for example do a significant amount of damage and don't proc loh, they also hit 360 and out of range of your normal attack.
I read your other thread earlier as this topic appears quite regularly. Good stuff for articulating the Monk example. What I do not really appreciate is the statement that comparing potential totals break fairness? Obviously much easier to compare just what is gained solely on weapons but what was your rationale for marginalising any other source or LS or LoH please? You go to pains to point out "CAN NOT" so you clearly have a reason. Sorry if you made it clear in the previous thread, I must have missed it.
Because it's an apples to oranges comparison. It's comparing 5+ stats against 2. That isn't even counting the legendaries that give LOH or sockets. How is that fair?
You do not have to make a choice between life steal and life on hit anywhere except the weapon. Therefore that's the only time the "Life steal vs LOH" question should arise.
*My* ideal weapon is ; Crit dmg, enhanced dmg, socket, physical/elemental dmg, 200 primary or 150/150 secondary, and then I decide between loh or life steal.
All you're really deciding is what is the most valuable 6 stats for any given item. Your build may have 6% life leech from weapons while having 1000+ LOH from rings/neck. That's perfectly okay. Maybe you buy that life steal weapon and decide to socket it for life on hit, that's okay too. Maybe you're a barb and just get the 3% life steal belt because LOH is better for your build so you get that elsewhere.
It should never be about I have (X) LOH so life on hit is worthless or I have (Y) life steal so LOH is worthless.
I mean fair is subjective so this is just an opinion, but that is my reason for it.
My comparison was specific to Barbarians, for whom I think it is fair to do this kind of comparison since they can get twice the amount LL as other classes with a mighty belt and the Bloodthirst passive.
I'm certainly not saying that LoH is superior to LL in every case, and if it seemed that way my apologies. LL is quite impressive in AOE situations. I was mainly making my point that for Barbarians, specifically WW barbs, LoH is really the priority.
That's fine and all but I don't see it as a fair comparison because you're not comparing equally. You're comparing a potential 9+ items vs 4.
You can race my bike in your street car of choice on a track. Is that fair? Then we'll consider the winner the better driver.