Best Solution to Crit Damage Problem and IAS (to Blizzard)

  • #21
    Quote from 2good4U

    Well, I know other reasons why they nerfed attack speed(but damage was a factor, they just can't admit it publicly).

    ...

    @Doorsfan: They say many things. And I only believe what I see with my own eyes. Currently too many people are choosing the crit way. And build diversity is "not" fine.

    Tinfoil hat to the rescue!

  • #22
    Crit cap, 650% is retarded every second shot. Cap it at 300, then people can focus on build diversity instead of chasing the max crit dmg.

    I'm at 259 crit dmg and 31% chance on my wiz, that plays very well. If I hit 300 and 40% i'd be more then happy!!


    But I think the theme of this topic is correct, too many people are choosing crit builds, it is the new IAS.
  • #23
    Quote from Phrensta

    Crit cap, 650% is retarded every second shot. Cap it at 300, then people can focus on build diversity instead of chasing the max crit dmg.

    I'm at 259 crit dmg and 31% chance on my wiz, that plays very well. If I hit 300 and 40% i'd be more then happy!!


    But I think the theme of this topic is correct, too many people are choosing crit builds, it is the new IAS.

    Crit synergizes with a lot of builds, and you have nothing to back this up with - Literally, no data. So, null and void.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyPoochification - Let's Play of Eastern Sun/Other stuff
  • #24
    Quote from Phrensta

    Crit cap, 650% is retarded every second shot. Cap it at 300, then people can focus on build diversity instead of chasing the max crit dmg.

    I'm at 259 crit dmg and 31% chance on my wiz, that plays very well. If I hit 300 and 40% i'd be more then happy!!


    But I think the theme of this topic is correct, too many people are choosing crit builds, it is the new IAS.

    If you can actually reach that cap, meaning you have nigh perfect gear, why shouldn't you do "retarded" damage? What is the harm? This is not a freaking MMO, it doesn't matter! That's all part of the fun.

    @Doorsfan: They say many things. And I only believe what I see with my own eyes. Currently too many people are choosing the crit way. And build diversity is "not" fine.

    What. The. Hell.

    That's really awesome that you have numbers Blizz doesn't, because they just publically stated that build diversity is looking really good right now. And you know, they have the databases, so... I'm inclined to believe them over you who knows nothing.
  • #25
    Like I said, I think people confuse a lot of people choosing popular invidividual skills that work well with crit as a lack of build diversity. There's 6 slots to choose from, say 100% of a class all chose the 1 amazing skill that worked well with crit, although that stinks still, it's not exactly destroying build diversity since there are 5 other choices to make still.

    Someone mentioned that crit works with more than 1 build also, and while that's true, things like the WW Barb show that there is still a "best" crit build, which I guess is what some people don't want to happen. I'm not sure a cap on crit damage would change that though.
  • #26
    Quote from Glowyrm

    Like I said, I think people confuse a lot of people choosing popular invidividual skills that work well with crit as a lack of build diversity. There's 6 slots to choose from, say 100% of a class all chose the 1 amazing skill that worked well with crit, although that stinks still, it's not exactly destroying build diversity since there are 5 other choices to make still.

    Someone mentioned that crit works with more than 1 build also, and while that's true, things like the WW Barb show that there is still a "best" crit build, which I guess is what some people don't want to happen. I'm not sure a cap on crit damage would change that though.

    I have the sufficient amounts of Crit but i do not run that setup, because of the bottom line of fact that i do not have enough resistance etc. to withstand damage taken from mobs, going with Whirlwind. Nor do i have the fury to spend it (Not in my current setup). So once more the dynamic of the build diversity is solidified in the matter of fact that common misconceptions, are in fact not at all relevant to the actual point.

    Not saying that you are wrong, but that even if people will rave about it as if the sky will fall upon us, it will probably not happen.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyPoochification - Let's Play of Eastern Sun/Other stuff
  • #27
    If you have the money to get 650% crit damage and still have other stats, such as dex, vit, all res, etc. Then that doesn't mean it's overpowered, it means you have too much money.
  • #28
    @Zakaz: Firstly I've been a gamer for 20 years. I'm playing this game since Diablo 1. Achieved everything in every Diablo game including Hellfire and excluding being one of Diablo 2 ladder top players. It's obvious that you didn't read everything I wrote. This is about all classes and crit damage. And I'm saying this again that everyone will have it. If some really low rate exceptional builds don't have it, they won't be as succesful as the ones having it. The claim is build diversity and overpowered builds.

    @Sexton: I'm editing the post now with the correct values.

    @Doorsfan: I think you have problems understanding what I'm trying to tell. To clarify a little; "I read every single thing blizzard published about this game."

    @BigEd781: You're right, I don't have any datas. Just my own 2 eyes as I said before. They also didn't give any specific datas, just words like I did.

    @all: I'm following every single blue post which are published in the front page of Diablofans.com and all announcements Blizzard makes at the front page in Diablo3.com. Now please get to the subject, not me.
    I will cleanse this wilderness...
  • #29
    Quote from 2good4U

    @Doorsfan: I think you have problems understanding what I'm trying to tell. To clarify a little; "I read every single thing blizzard published about this game."

    Then i fail to see why you would be so inclined, to only believe that you as a single individual player, who cannot possibly observe enough data to compare, by sheer amounts and there of relevance - Would somehow have the amounts of data to actually go out and somehow formulate this in such a degree to have it become a actual problem, when they themselves - the publishers who has the statistics (they don't post them very often but they did pull a exact % thing on the WD Speed kill on Butcher, if you recall that), claimed that it's not a problem.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyPoochification - Let's Play of Eastern Sun/Other stuff
  • #30
    Rofl wow... My DH is getting one-shot by everything in act 3-4 (and half the packs in act 2 still give me trouble), and you're asking for the class to be nerfed? Rofl

    Spend more on the RMAH and make another whiny bitch post about how your gear made you overpowered. Be sure to crosspost that one too. This comedy is too good to miss the sequel =)
  • #31
    @Bilge:Where did I ask for class to be nerfed? It's fun to see people laugh at something they "did not" read carefully.

    @Doorsfan: You may believe what you want. I remember everyone I know got at least to inferno act 1 when they announced that %1.9. Maybe I don't know any noobs so I only know the ones who know how to play the game. Maybe that's the problem. I don't know. I don't have any specific data to share with you. Just my own 2 eyes as I said before. Also, all these are not enough reasons not to nerf critical hit damage.

    @All: Does anyone here have any data about how build diversity is right now? Guess no. Then let's stop this.
    I will cleanse this wilderness...
  • #32
    Quote from Doorsfan

    Quote from 2good4U

    @Doorsfan: I think you have problems understanding what I'm trying to tell. To clarify a little; "I read every single thing blizzard published about this game."

    Then i fail to see why you would be so inclined, to only believe that you as a single individual player, who cannot possibly observe enough data to compare, by sheer amounts and there of relevance - Would somehow have the amounts of data to actually go out and somehow formulate this in such a degree to have it become a actual problem, when they themselves - the publishers who has the statistics (they don't post them very often but they did pull a exact % thing on the WD Speed kill on Butcher, if you recall that), claimed that it's not a problem.

    Man, no offense but you're getting trolled hard.

    This is not a thread about crit. It's a "QQ ABOUT IAS NERF" thread in disguise.
    65.3k elite kills :: 1.94m total kills :: p235
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #33
    Quote from 2good4U

    @Doorsfan: They say many things. And I only believe what I see with my own eyes. Currently too many people are choosing the crit way. And build diversity is "not" fine.
    Disbelief on a fact does not make it false.
    If you see the forums, you will see a lot of diferent builds and guides. In each of them, several posters say they use a variant of the build showed in the OP, with 1, 2 or 3 different skills or passives. If you go and check youtube, you'll see different builds as well. So you are utterly wrong. Build diversity is much better now.
  • #34
    To clarify further, this is the most important problem about crit damage:

    "For a demon hunter who uses Dual 1h Crossbows, Crit Damage can get as high as %400 only from weapons(%100 on affix, %100 from Radiant Star Emerald on each crossbow). %65 from an amulet, x2 %35 from rings, %50 from gloves it makes totally %585 Crit Damage!!! This is not fair. This means one of your 2 hits will be %100 of your damage, and the other %585 damage. Does this sound fair to you?"


    This is how my original post starts:
    "I understand that you don't want to nerf Crit stats, but currently crit damage is too powerful."


    This important problem, leads to less build diversity now and this diversity will be much less in the future as players progress in the game, get more powerful and realize the crit way more. The thread is as long as it should be, so my message is delivered to the ones I wanted to. Thanks for all good infos and please continue to share them here. For useless infos, thanks for bumping the thread. I said everything I can about this subject, the only thing I can do after this is remind some of you to read everything until you understand them. Remember, the more you read, the more you can understand. I'm done with this thread.
    I will cleanse this wilderness...
  • #35
    Quote from Doorsfan

    Quote from Phrensta

    Crit cap, 650% is retarded every second shot. Cap it at 300, then people can focus on build diversity instead of chasing the max crit dmg.

    I'm at 259 crit dmg and 31% chance on my wiz, that plays very well. If I hit 300 and 40% i'd be more then happy!!


    But I think the theme of this topic is correct, too many people are choosing crit builds, it is the new IAS.

    Crit synergizes with a lot of builds, and you have nothing to back this up with - Literally, no data. So, null and void.

    Your post reminds me of a quote

    "What can you do with 7 billion, that you can't do with 4"

    To me 650% crit damage is well into the realm of not necessary, you would literally one shot everything in game with a single crit. Which is why people will chase it and continue to value crit gear over everything else. The same way IAS was valued over everything else previously.

    Also what data do i need to back up a DH with 100k damage and 650% crit, hard cap it, let people achieve a max and look at other things to pimp their build with, since there is a far beeter chance to get other decent stats with not so perfect crit rolls. If you meant, I have no data on how many people choose crit builds, you are right, but neither do you, so you are an idiot for claiming I can't have an opinion based off how many crit builds I play myself and my DIII buddies also. I don't have any farming happy friends who aren't chasing more and more crit because it is so powerful. Which is fine, most of us are at around 250/35, as I clearly stated if we reached 300/40 we would be laughing when we farm inferno. Hence why I think a cap is a decent way to alleviate the need for crit.

    Feel free to post your data disproving my impression in the space provided <---->
  • #36
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Doorsfan

    Quote from 2good4U

    @Doorsfan: I think you have problems understanding what I'm trying to tell. To clarify a little; "I read every single thing blizzard published about this game."

    Then i fail to see why you would be so inclined, to only believe that you as a single individual player, who cannot possibly observe enough data to compare, by sheer amounts and there of relevance - Would somehow have the amounts of data to actually go out and somehow formulate this in such a degree to have it become a actual problem, when they themselves - the publishers who has the statistics (they don't post them very often but they did pull a exact % thing on the WD Speed kill on Butcher, if you recall that), claimed that it's not a problem.

    Man, no offense but you're getting trolled hard.

    This is not a thread about crit. It's a "QQ ABOUT IAS NERF" thread in disguise.

    This is so true.
  • #37
    Quote from Phrensta

    what data do i need to back up

    Told you that you guys were getting trolled.
    65.3k elite kills :: 1.94m total kills :: p235
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #38
    Look guys, I think I finally get his point to be honest. And I may even agree that there is a problem there.

    The problem isn't that we get to absurdly high dps numbers, it's how much more effective crit chance paired with crit damage is compared to the other "dps itemization" possibilities.

    Instead of us having multiple ways of building a DPS character (either focusing on solid base stats like massive int/dex, focusing on IAS, or focusing on crit), right now the only viable path is crit chance + crit damage.

    So, where's the problem there?

    The problem is how much your damage scales with crit chance + damage. It's easily 4 to 5 times more effective than any other "dps route (IAS or just solid base dmg/main-stats), to the point that the absolute only dps itemization is to pursue crit chance + crit damage. The sick sinergy with some skills make that even worse.

    My personal experience related to this so far. My first character, my Wizard, I tried to make her an extremely balanced character with solid defense and offense so I could solo content without having to rely on others. End result, 1.3k Vitality, 2.2k Intelligence, a 980~ 1 hander with a 380 dmg source, around 800 resist all, and the most I could get out of her was 45-50k dps. I have since then changed some aspects of my build with her to improve resists and get a shield for block chance, and get some life leech to try and make AoE work for sustainability (lost some int/vit but it's working decently on Act 3).

    My second character, a Barbarian. Shitty gear, 1.5k Str (500 less than my Wiz), almost 0 +crit damage, and he's hitting 38k dps. That's from an average crit chance (45%~) and crappy crit dmg (with ruthless, around 250%) I'm almost hitting as hard as my Wizard, on whom I spent over 5 million trying to make a "critless build".

    I'm not saying there is 110% a problem, let's nerf crit chance and crit damage. I'm just pointing out something worthy of discussing, and giving my personal insight on what could be a problem: having only 1 viable dps-route, because that one is easily (even with crappy rolls) 4 to 5 times more effective than the other dps-routes.
  • #39
    They nerfed IAS because it synergised excessively with certain skill/rune combos which meant you felt you had to take that build to take advantage of IAS. Which you had to do because with those combos IAS was OP. They didn't want a stat to cripple build diversity.

    In certain cases you could argue a similar problem exists with crit. It's not really an issue now but I can almost guarantee it will be thrust sharply into the spotlight when PVP comes out! :P
  • #40
    You don't crit for much no matter how much your Crit Damage is if you ignore your main stat. If you don't stack Crit Chance and Crit Damage, and IAS having so low values on items, what else is there to stack? There's only 4 damage stats. Base stat, Crit Chance, Crit Damage and IAS (aside from weapon damage). Crit Damage is only powerful if you have good base stats along with good weapon damage. Crit Damage / Crit Chance alone is crap.
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