100MF Act I or 0MF ACT II? My experience and some simple math

  • #1
    TL;DR: 0MF ACT II might be more rewarding in terms of more ilvl 62+ rares. NV buffs make the difference in MF not that noticeable.

    Background:

    I am sort of a below average noob player, so the only comfortable play style for me is to tank all the mobs with my face and only avoiding fires on the ground. Therefore I found ACT III progressing too stressful for my current gear and skill. So the farming option for me is just ACT I or ACT II. I can clear ACT I with my eyes shut and ACT II without dying in my current defensive gear. Thus, I want to try to get some MF gear and see which one is more rewarding: 100MF ACT I or 0MF ACT II.

    Assumptions:

    First I will show some simple math reasoning, which is based on the following assumptions:

    1. Our goal in farming is to get the maximum number of ilvl 62+ RARE+ items while having fun.

    2. MF will not increase the number of items nor the ilvl of items, only the likelihood of this item being blue/rare+.

    3. The chance of getting a rare increase linearly with MF. For example, if you originally have 10% chance getting a rare item, with 100MF you now have 20% chance.

    Results:

    So now let's assume you have 30% chance of getting a rare off a champion pack. Then after 10 packs, in average you will have 3 rare items. But if you have 100MF, you will get 6 instead of 3. This seems quite an advantage. However, NV buffs come into play. You will get one guaranteed rare for every pack you kill. With 5 NV and 0MF, you will have 10 + 1.75 * 3 = 15.25 rare items. With 5 NV and 100MF, you will have 10 + 2.75 * 3 = 18.25 rare items. With some RNG, this will hardly be that noticeable.

    Now considering the fact that ACT II drops twice as many ilvl 63 items and 50% percent more ilvl 62 items than ACT I, you might have a much more satisfying experience in ACT II in our current setting.

    Indeed, I use quite a few made up numbers in these equations, but the ideas are the same. (I might be able to build some models using Bernoulli distribution for a likelihood ratio test and confidence intervals in order to obtain the probability of getting more ilvl 62 rare items in ACT I or II, but that will be even more boring to read XD).

    Personal Experiences:

    For the past week, I have been trying to farm ACT I with 100MF or ACT II with 0MF at the frequency of 2 hours every two days (an extremely small sample). I found 2 upgrades in each ACT, but I have to say I like ACT II a lot better. Personally I feel more satisfying to identify ilvl 62+ items, while in ACT I I sometimes need to identify and vendor several ilvl 55- rares in a row, which is annoying.

    Sorry for the long post, and I do not know how to attach a photo of potato :-)
  • #2
    A3 > A2 > A1 regardless of how much MF you have (and assuming you have the ability to do each act in a reasonable time).
  • #3
    5 stacks of NV helps make MF useless. Just get 5 stacks and farm the highest act you can do without dying.
  • #4
    Farm the highest act where you can easily steam roll, 0MF or 400MF will not matter what so ever.
  • #5
    Quote from Bodycount1

    5 stacks of NV helps make MF useless.


    It upsets me when people say this, you truely do not understand/realize how good Magic Find is beyond a 5 stack.
  • #6
    As others have said. Farm the highest act that you can easily steamroll.

    The last week i have tried to farm all the good places in act 1 and act 2 just to see what is best.
    My conclusion is that act 2 is better, but only by a small margin.
    Act 3 as a DH is pretty damn tough so no reason to do that. It seems you really have to get kickass gear to make act 3 viable. And by kickass gear i talk about +500 millions worth of gear.

    So for now im sticking to act 2.
  • #7
    Quote from Mahoraba

    It upsets me when people say this, you truely do not understand/realize how good Magic Find is beyond a 5 stack.


    I have zero MF. After 5 stacks I'm seeing 1-3 yellows drop per champ pack. Mostly 2-3 per pack. Rarely only 1.

    Sure I could spend 10-20 million on GF gear.. or hurry up and switch out gear before the last of the pack dies.. but that seems like work to me. And I play this game for fun, not work.

    I've had 100 base MF before.. and all that netted me was more blues from bosses. Blues don't sell. Everyone wants perfect stat yellows.

    Now i'm slowly working on gold find gear. Only catch is it must be an upgrade or I don't get it. So it's going very slowly. But i'm up to 75% base. Love those 2000 gold drops from whites.
  • #8
    Quote from Bodycount1

    Quote from Mahoraba

    It upsets me when people say this, you truely do not understand/realize how good Magic Find is beyond a 5 stack.


    I have zero MF. After 5 stacks I'm seeing 1-3 yellows drop per champ pack. Mostly 2-3 per pack. Rarely only 1.

    Sure I could spend 10-20 million on GF gear.. or hurry up and switch out gear before the last of the pack dies.. but that seems like work to me. And I play this game for fun, not work.

    I've had 100 base MF before.. and all that netted me was more blues from bosses. Blues don't sell. Everyone wants perfect stat yellows.

    Now i'm slowly working on gold find gear. Only catch is it must be an upgrade or I don't get it. So it's going very slowly. But i'm up to 75% base. Love those 2000 gold drops from whites.


    I don't know what to write really. I can't see how...no.. Your just talking BS with getting "mostly" 2-3 rare with only 75%.
    Since it's already stated that MF = more rare
    Just.. stop it.
  • #9
    Quote from Trance

    Quote from Bodycount1

    Quote from Mahoraba

    It upsets me when people say this, you truely do not understand/realize how good Magic Find is beyond a 5 stack.


    I have zero MF. After 5 stacks I'm seeing 1-3 yellows drop per champ pack. Mostly 2-3 per pack. Rarely only 1.

    Sure I could spend 10-20 million on GF gear.. or hurry up and switch out gear before the last of the pack dies.. but that seems like work to me. And I play this game for fun, not work.

    I've had 100 base MF before.. and all that netted me was more blues from bosses. Blues don't sell. Everyone wants perfect stat yellows.

    Now i'm slowly working on gold find gear. Only catch is it must be an upgrade or I don't get it. So it's going very slowly. But i'm up to 75% base. Love those 2000 gold drops from whites.


    I don't know what to write really. I can't see how...no.. Your just talking BS with getting "mostly" 2-3 rare with only 75%.
    Since it's already stated that MF = more rare
    Just.. stop it.

    lol? i can confirm that also, 1 rare is guaranteed so getting 1 more with 75% MF doesnt seem like a hard thing to happen, same with bosses who have 2 guaranteed rares and yet they in most cases drop 3, you either havent played without MF gear post patch or you have bad luck

    OT: there are a lot of assumptions there so hard to say which one is best, i prefer act 2 over act 1 and 3 but that has nothing to do with drop rates

    in the end whichever act you farm and no matter how much MF you have or you dont have you'll always get a very decent amount of rare (assuming you know how to farm and dont just kill 5packs and go straight to the boss) because in the end it takes 1 rare drop to make few mil profit, and at the same time you could be sitting on 200 worthless rares

    math will give you a most efficient way to accomplish your goal, but math cannot factor in the luck or misfortune of a player
  • #10
    Quote from Gnarf

    math will give you a most efficient way to accomplish your goal, but math cannot factor in the luck or misfortune of a player


    So much Ace of Spades from this - But more to the subject, this needs to be imprinted in the skulls of every single MF person out there. burnt in their very flesh. IN THEIR MINDS. WITH MIND POWERS!!!111
    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyPoochification - Let's Play of Eastern Sun/Other stuff
  • #11
    Quote from Gnarf

    Quote from Trance

    Quote from Bodycount1

    Quote from Mahoraba

    It upsets me when people say this, you truely do not understand/realize how good Magic Find is beyond a 5 stack.


    I have zero MF. After 5 stacks I'm seeing 1-3 yellows drop per champ pack. Mostly 2-3 per pack. Rarely only 1.

    Sure I could spend 10-20 million on GF gear.. or hurry up and switch out gear before the last of the pack dies.. but that seems like work to me. And I play this game for fun, not work.

    I've had 100 base MF before.. and all that netted me was more blues from bosses. Blues don't sell. Everyone wants perfect stat yellows.

    Now i'm slowly working on gold find gear. Only catch is it must be an upgrade or I don't get it. So it's going very slowly. But i'm up to 75% base. Love those 2000 gold drops from whites.


    I don't know what to write really. I can't see how...no.. Your just talking BS with getting "mostly" 2-3 rare with only 75%.
    Since it's already stated that MF = more rare
    Just.. stop it.

    lol? i can confirm that also, 1 rare is guaranteed so getting 1 more with 75% MF doesnt seem like a hard thing to happen, same with bosses who have 2 guaranteed rares and yet they in most cases drop 3, you either havent played without MF gear post patch or you have bad luck

    OT: there are a lot of assumptions there so hard to say which one is best, i prefer act 2 over act 1 and 3 but that has nothing to do with drop rates

    in the end whichever act you farm and no matter how much MF you have or you dont have you'll always get a very decent amount of rare (assuming you know how to farm and dont just kill 5packs and go straight to the boss) because in the end it takes 1 rare drop to make few mil profit, and at the same time you could be sitting on 200 worthless rares

    math will give you a most efficient way to accomplish your goal, but math cannot factor in the luck or misfortune of a player


    I have 276% MF and 93k dps while farming act 3. And yes, it does mainly comes down to luck but I reacted on what that he said MOSTLY 2-3 rares. Either way hes a damn lucky guy who gets 3 most of the time, or do he get 2 most of the time or only that 1 guaranteed? What's his sample size? 5 packs or 500?
    I've been farming for 200+ hours in act 3 (oh well not all in this patch ofc:P ) and his way of telling hes getting 2-3 mostly is just..wrong. Because in the long run you pretty much need MF to make it worth it.
    You can't talk it down.
  • #12
    Quote from Bodycount1

    Quote from Mahoraba

    It upsets me when people say this, you truely do not understand/realize how good Magic Find is beyond a 5 stack.


    I have zero MF. After 5 stacks I'm seeing 1-3 yellows drop per champ pack. Mostly 2-3 per pack. Rarely only 1.

    Sure I could spend 10-20 million on GF gear.. or hurry up and switch out gear before the last of the pack dies.. but that seems like work to me. And I play this game for fun, not work.

    I've had 100 base MF before.. and all that netted me was more blues from bosses. Blues don't sell. Everyone wants perfect stat yellows.

    Now i'm slowly working on gold find gear. Only catch is it must be an upgrade or I don't get it. So it's going very slowly. But i'm up to 75% base. Love those 2000 gold drops from whites.


    You lost my interest when you said "Blue drops don't matter cause people only want yellows" while your statement holds true about Yellows, Blues are salvage amazingness. Due to your lack of gold or lack of wanting to spend gold on crafting you probably don't actually understand how good crafting really is, why do you think people buy your Exquiste essence when you post it.

    I run 336% MF after Valor in Act 3 and I can clear on average 35 Elite packs, 4 Goblins and two bosses (Cydaea and Azmo) in 45 Minutes, with 7 deaths on average.

    Oh, and by the way i've netted 42 Legendaries, 2 Exalted Grand Sovereign greaves, 1 Exalted Grand Vambraces, Grand Armplates and 2 Grand Chests.

    Edit: 450 Hours of play time.
  • #13
    Quote from Mahoraba

    Quote from Bodycount1

    Quote from Mahoraba

    It upsets me when people say this, you truely do not understand/realize how good Magic Find is beyond a 5 stack.


    I have zero MF. After 5 stacks I'm seeing 1-3 yellows drop per champ pack. Mostly 2-3 per pack. Rarely only 1.

    Sure I could spend 10-20 million on GF gear.. or hurry up and switch out gear before the last of the pack dies.. but that seems like work to me. And I play this game for fun, not work.

    I've had 100 base MF before.. and all that netted me was more blues from bosses. Blues don't sell. Everyone wants perfect stat yellows.

    Now i'm slowly working on gold find gear. Only catch is it must be an upgrade or I don't get it. So it's going very slowly. But i'm up to 75% base. Love those 2000 gold drops from whites.


    You lost my interest when you said "Blue drops don't matter cause people only want yellows" while your statement holds true about Yellows, Blues are salvage amazingness. Due to your lack of gold or lack of wanting to spend gold on crafting you probably don't actually understand how good crafting really is, why do you think people buy your Exquiste essence when you post it.

    I run 336% MF after Valor in Act 3 and I can clear on average 35 Elite packs, 4 Goblins and two bosses (Cydaea and Azmo) in 45 Minutes, with 7 deaths on average.

    Oh, and by the way i've netted 42 Legendaries, 2 Exalted Grand Sovereign greaves, 1 Exalted Grand Vambraces, Grand Armplates and 2 Grand Chests.

    Edit: 450 Hours of play time.


    Those statistics say more about the insane gear you already have than about MF. I run without MF gear and get about 70 rares in 1 act 2 run, I kill about 20-30 Elite/Champion packs and the three bosses of course.

    I ran about 10 complete act 2 runs, so the sample size isn't too big, 200-300 elites with 2-3 rares on average. So I really don't see the point of stacking MF gear, unless you're incredibly wealthy (gold or real life money), or you're a ranged class.
  • #14
    Quote from Seditiar

    Those statistics say more about the insane gear you already have than about MF. I run without MF gear and get about 70 rares in 1 act 2 run, I kill about 20-30 Elite/Champion packs and the three bosses of course.

    I ran about 10 complete act 2 runs, so the sample size isn't too big, 200-300 elites with 2-3 rares on average. So I really don't see the point of stacking MF gear, unless you're incredibly wealthy (gold or real life money), or you're a ranged class.


    Magic Finds change in drop is "feelable" if that's even a way to describe it, its difficult to really sit here and tell you how it changes it beyond what you already know about Magic find giving more blues, ect.

    There's something about that Archon Crown, Arch Axe or that one Exalted Grand Vambraces that drops off of a white scorpion that makes you really appreciate your Magic Find on your gear.
  • #15
    310% MF goblins at ACT 2 is the best way to farm.

    cheers have fun bb gl gg
  • #16
    Quote from Mahoraba

    Quote from Seditiar

    Those statistics say more about the insane gear you already have than about MF. I run without MF gear and get about 70 rares in 1 act 2 run, I kill about 20-30 Elite/Champion packs and the three bosses of course.

    I ran about 10 complete act 2 runs, so the sample size isn't too big, 200-300 elites with 2-3 rares on average. So I really don't see the point of stacking MF gear, unless you're incredibly wealthy (gold or real life money), or you're a ranged class.


    Magic Finds change in drop is "feelable" if that's even a way to describe it, its difficult to really sit here and tell you how it changes it beyond what you already know about Magic find giving more blues, ect.

    There's something about that Archon Crown, Arch Axe or that one Exalted Grand Vambraces that drops off of a white scorpion that makes you really appreciate your Magic Find on your gear.


    I simply can't agree because rares/hour is a measurable value.

    Does MF give you more rares/hour? The answer shouldn't be a secret, it just takes some testing.

    What is your average return per 10 points of magic find? Again, shouldn't take tons of testing to figure out.

    Doing things based on "feel" and without testing is silly. These things are measurable and we shouldn't have to rely on what people "feel" works and what they "feel" doesn't work. In fact, there was a front-page post about a guy's MF data collection.

    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/57939-ongoing-project-magic-find-and-its-efficiency-a-statistical-insight/

    That should give you an idea as to how much MF is going to impact your white/yellow/blue rates. However, it does not show how changes in your gear impacts your killing speed (which is the variable that is independent to each of us and our class, gear, spec).
    p400 :: 85.1k EK :: 2.38m TK
    Planet Express <PlanEx>
    (V) (°,,°) (V)
  • #17
    One thing I've noticed is that while everyone is formulating all these statistics... I'm playing the game and getting gear :P
  • #18
    The simple fact is the monsters in act 1 have so much fewer hitpoints than in higher acts that you will get more i63s / hour farming act 1 than any other act, whether your gear is godly or garbage, or anywhere in between. The percentage drop rate is lower but you get so many more rares per hour in act 1 that it negates the lower drop rate.

    The clincher is that you can easily stack MF in act 1, while MF will hurt your dps too much for you to effectively do acts 2-4. Gear swapping is temporary, it will be nerfed. Even until then, it takes time, and when we're talking about maxing rares per hour, time is money.

    This is poor game design. This is the new Blizzard. Reel in its stench.
  • #19
    Quote from Bilge

    The simple fact is the monsters in act 1 have so much fewer hitpoints than in higher acts that you will get more i63s / hour farming act 1 than any other act, whether your gear is godly or garbage, or anywhere in between. The percentage drop rate is lower but you get so many more rares per hour in act 1 that it negates the lower drop rate.


    getting so many more rares doesn't mean crap when they're all junks. you only want the ilvl62-63 rares. anything below it is just garbage except for rings and ammys. that's why you want to farm a3 if you can.

    mf does work. however, if you're focusing on mf too much while sacrificing survivability and dps, it's just not worth it.
  • #20
    Quote from Miv

    A3 > A2 > A1 regardless of how much MF you have (and assuming you have the ability to do each act in a reasonable time).

    This pretty much sums it up.
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