Kripp's suggestions are fine. I kinda even like some of them, so my comments weren't directed at the video or him, just at the idea of "we need the next challenge naow". I mean, let's not kid ourselves, it doesn't matter how hard something is, eventually people will get there, that's one thing WoW taught us.
Also, as far as I'm aware, both Kripp and Athene got fed tons of gear and gold early in the game, and started farming Inferno way before the average joe. And the fact that these guys can clear the game doesn't mean anything for Blizzard when 80% (or whatever %) of their playerbase is just now reaching Inferno (if that, about half of my friends are still in Nightmare). Not everyone is a "serious gamer". And that's just fine.
Reaching a point where you can farm Act 1/act3 inferno isn't really that rough
But only now, right? After a month and a half of high-end lvl 63 gear being injected into the economy. And now that we know what stats and builds work. In the first week, I remember people saying Act 1 Inferno was impossible because scavengers would 1-shot everyone. A week (and a half?) later they reached Act 2 brickwall, which caused an even bigger outrage "being 1 shot isn't challenging, it's cheap, I hate you blizzctivision". Even Kripp was supposedly "stuck" on Act 3 with "arguably the best gear in the world" (and had to bypass most elite mobs).
The point some of us are trying to make is that there is that end-game un-achieveable goal, and that is having the absolute best gear in the game (which is a utopic goal), or maybe to gear up and get ready for PvP?
To me, personally, end game is rolling new classes, feeling all the classes first hand, experiencing all the randomization in the game, and after I'm done, trying to get those "crazy" achievements (like the naked ones, which I didn't get yet). I'm also making sure I get gear that's cheap and that could be used for crazy builds (like a Melee Wiz, which I'm almost able to play as in Act 2 Inf and that's awesome to me).
To guys like Kripp, it's about "now what Blizz, your move, gimme something I cannot do to grind for the next 5 months and have a false sense of accomplishment". That's how I see it at least..
I know for a fact AThene was fed gear, but outside of Kripp's group - I was under the impression that they only pooled their drops in their group of 4-7 people - With emphasis on Kripp's barb. If that's being "fed" gear, anyone who plays in a good group was fed gear.
There's probably not a lot of people who sit in the position I do. I've killed Diablo on inferno with every class. I've farmed a3/a4(pre-nerf) with every class except barb(which has now changed). Only interest I have in Hardcore is AChievment related(essentially it's the only practical achievments I'm missing - I'm missing a couple grind achievemnts too, but that's a whole nother rant..wth 100M gold =( ).
Even just the idea of being able to bounce from act to act(like D2) would be more than enough to keep me interested until the expansion, but being pidgeonheld into 1 act, AND getting your NV reset for changing acts, really kills my taste for this. Couple that with the (quite) easy bosses, some practically impossible packs(Melee vs Caster AI Molten+anything else that could be annoying comes to mind, Invul minions+Arcane, Arcane Vortex Jailer setups with caster AI, etc), LONG Mf runs(D2 My average MF run(which included 5-6 caves, 3 bosses, and a key run) took ~20 minutes tops, and I could stop at any point without being punished, Compared to D3 runs which can literally take HOURS, AND punishes you for afking, taking a break, or even stopping.) and suddenly it's not fun to grind out gear.
There's a lot of issues I have with this game, most of them stem from it's just not fun until you get gear. It's incredibly time consuming(who really has an hour extra for a single MF run?), It's punishing in every aspect(dying is ~7k per death ish, or ~11k per MF run without deaths, Leaving game essentially puts you back 5-7 minutes, changing acts can put you back up to 15 minutes), and reaching brick walls just isn't enjoyable.
No games perfect in the begining, and I'm sure there are more changes for the better to come, but without my carrot on a stick, I just see no purpose to drudge myself through these aspects, and it's brought me to only crafting, and buying Unided items: because it's cheaper to spend 300k on a ilvl63 weapon than it is to attempted to farm for one - even if I never die.
Even just the idea of being able to bounce from act to act(like D2) would be more than enough to keep me interested until the expansion, but being pidgeonheld into 1 act, AND getting your NV reset for changing acts, really kills my taste for this.
Yeah, I agree with that too.
I was expecting Inferno to have everything unlocked and you could literally go anywhere and fight whoever you wanted. And I didn't like that they removed "specific loot tables" that D2's bosses/minibosses had, I expected them to tweak it, not remove it completely (and add a random "you can get anything anywhere" system).
LONG Mf runs(D2 My average MF run(which included 5-6 caves, 3 bosses, and a key run) took ~20 minutes tops, and I could stop at any point without being punished, Compared to D3 runs which can literally take HOURS, AND punishes you for afking, taking a break, or even stopping.) and suddenly it's not fun to grind out gear.
I think you can pause in single players and not lose the NV stack. But I see your point. Although I think many people overrate the NV buff. Yeah it's great, but you can easily get another 5 stacks (if needed, there's a ton of elites out there) and even without it I get a decent amount of gold and items.
I see people on the official forums complain about how NV resets if you change your build, but they forget they can just reset their build and keep playing. It's not like suddenly they get 0 gold from monsters and no items at all.
I totally agree with this guy's general idea: there's nothing left to do once you kill Inferno Diablo. Leveling alts is boring as shit. Hardcore is a joke as long as people keep dying to server lags and invisible mobs.
However, I think Blizz already have lots of end-game features planned and maybe even in progress already. These guys know how to make cool games better than anybody and I'm sure they knew there should be something beyond Inferno to keep people online. They just didn't expect us to clear Inferno and start asking for more so soon.
I laughed hard when he said that d2 had endgame besides farming items. Really?
Then he goes on to say that d3 pvp will not be fun because of oneshotting, then saying d2 pvp was good. Oneshotting is ALL that d2 was about, and it was all because of gear. Adding that wow is not about gear. I dont know...I think he knows alot less than he thinks he does.
Yes, he got some decent ideas, but seriously need to think before he speaks.
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I can see what you see not. Vision milky, then eyes rot.
When you turn, they will be gone. Whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be. Shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind. Cast down into the Halls of the Blind
but i'd still wager that 90 % of the playing population got lives, and knows that there ARE other things in life than sitting in front of your computer grinding CHAMPION LEVELZ all day, for that 0.00000001 % xtra uber uber leet stuff to flash epeenery all over..
are you saying that games shouldn't have endgame cause people have lives? How does it negatively impact you if there were things to grind, for people who want to keep playing? Not sure what youre trying to say really. People obviously have time to raid 12 hours a week in WoW to grind some gear, some of them have lives too.
No, what people are saying is that Blizzard knows from years of experience with WoW that you cannot hope to balance the "endgame" against the long-term happiness of the upper crust of players. Like I've said 5 or 6 times before, does anyone remember the Death & Taxes hissy fit over how long they had to farm BT and how it was unfair that WotLK didn't come sooner?
Blizzard is not stupid. They cannot crank out content for people who spend more time playing the game than Blizzard does developing the game. I am willing to bet that there is not a single person at Blizzard who works as many hours per week as Kripp plays. Therefore, at some point, people who play that much are going to burn through everything and have nothing to do. That's fine, that's the tacitly acknowledged tradeoff for being the numba 1 badass on the internet.
His "endgame" was very much different from the "endgame" that the much broader playerbase is interested in. And, just like in WoW, they don't unveil MoP the moment Ensidia clears out Heroic Dragon Soul, they're not going to just throw in more "endgame" because a few thousand people feel that they killed Inferno Diablo and that's all there is to the game so now Blizzard owes them more.
Get a grip. No company could be remotely profitable if it did what you were suggesting.
A. Players who don't use RMAH and realize the game is crap
B. Players who know this deep down, but have invested IRL money into D3 therefore they will argue saying its the best game just to defend their investment and hopefully not chase players away
Kripp was the world first Hardccore inferno clear. So take it from him,otherwise you're in denail, sir.
I really liked his 'ladder' ideas. I would like more than one follower. They behave just like my pets in inferno. One shot distractions. The more the merrier!
I laughed hard when he said that d2 had endgame besides farming items. Really?
Then he goes on to say that d3 pvp will not be fun because of oneshotting, then saying d2 pvp was good. Oneshotting is ALL that d2 was about, and it was all because of gear. Adding that wow is not about gear. I dont know...I think he knows alot less than he thinks he does.
Yes, he got some decent ideas, but seriously need to think before he speaks.
Agreed. He had some decent ideas, otherwise he was just blowing smoke out of his ass.
D2 Endgame...I'm sorry what?
D2 PvP...it was all about one shotting. I died ALOT in those days.
WoW is not about gear? Wait a second....
Yeah he was blowing smoke out of his ass. I think he went on a tangent and just pulled out whatever he could to emphasize his point just because he has a...fanbase.
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I know for a fact AThene was fed gear, but outside of Kripp's group - I was under the impression that they only pooled their drops in their group of 4-7 people - With emphasis on Kripp's barb. If that's being "fed" gear, anyone who plays in a good group was fed gear.
There's probably not a lot of people who sit in the position I do. I've killed Diablo on inferno with every class. I've farmed a3/a4(pre-nerf) with every class except barb(which has now changed). Only interest I have in Hardcore is AChievment related(essentially it's the only practical achievments I'm missing - I'm missing a couple grind achievemnts too, but that's a whole nother rant..wth 100M gold =( ).
Even just the idea of being able to bounce from act to act(like D2) would be more than enough to keep me interested until the expansion, but being pidgeonheld into 1 act, AND getting your NV reset for changing acts, really kills my taste for this. Couple that with the (quite) easy bosses, some practically impossible packs(Melee vs Caster AI Molten+anything else that could be annoying comes to mind, Invul minions+Arcane, Arcane Vortex Jailer setups with caster AI, etc), LONG Mf runs(D2 My average MF run(which included 5-6 caves, 3 bosses, and a key run) took ~20 minutes tops, and I could stop at any point without being punished, Compared to D3 runs which can literally take HOURS, AND punishes you for afking, taking a break, or even stopping.) and suddenly it's not fun to grind out gear.
There's a lot of issues I have with this game, most of them stem from it's just not fun until you get gear. It's incredibly time consuming(who really has an hour extra for a single MF run?), It's punishing in every aspect(dying is ~7k per death ish, or ~11k per MF run without deaths, Leaving game essentially puts you back 5-7 minutes, changing acts can put you back up to 15 minutes), and reaching brick walls just isn't enjoyable.
No games perfect in the begining, and I'm sure there are more changes for the better to come, but without my carrot on a stick, I just see no purpose to drudge myself through these aspects, and it's brought me to only crafting, and buying Unided items: because it's cheaper to spend 300k on a ilvl63 weapon than it is to attempted to farm for one - even if I never die.
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Wise ElderI was expecting Inferno to have everything unlocked and you could literally go anywhere and fight whoever you wanted. And I didn't like that they removed "specific loot tables" that D2's bosses/minibosses had, I expected them to tweak it, not remove it completely (and add a random "you can get anything anywhere" system).
I think you can pause in single players and not lose the NV stack. But I see your point. Although I think many people overrate the NV buff. Yeah it's great, but you can easily get another 5 stacks (if needed, there's a ton of elites out there) and even without it I get a decent amount of gold and items.
I see people on the official forums complain about how NV resets if you change your build, but they forget they can just reset their build and keep playing. It's not like suddenly they get 0 gold from monsters and no items at all.
However, I think Blizz already have lots of end-game features planned and maybe even in progress already. These guys know how to make cool games better than anybody and I'm sure they knew there should be something beyond Inferno to keep people online. They just didn't expect us to clear Inferno and start asking for more so soon.
Then he goes on to say that d3 pvp will not be fun because of oneshotting, then saying d2 pvp was good. Oneshotting is ALL that d2 was about, and it was all because of gear. Adding that wow is not about gear. I dont know...I think he knows alot less than he thinks he does.
Yes, he got some decent ideas, but seriously need to think before he speaks.
No, what people are saying is that Blizzard knows from years of experience with WoW that you cannot hope to balance the "endgame" against the long-term happiness of the upper crust of players. Like I've said 5 or 6 times before, does anyone remember the Death & Taxes hissy fit over how long they had to farm BT and how it was unfair that WotLK didn't come sooner?
Blizzard is not stupid. They cannot crank out content for people who spend more time playing the game than Blizzard does developing the game. I am willing to bet that there is not a single person at Blizzard who works as many hours per week as Kripp plays. Therefore, at some point, people who play that much are going to burn through everything and have nothing to do. That's fine, that's the tacitly acknowledged tradeoff for being the numba 1 badass on the internet.
His "endgame" was very much different from the "endgame" that the much broader playerbase is interested in. And, just like in WoW, they don't unveil MoP the moment Ensidia clears out Heroic Dragon Soul, they're not going to just throw in more "endgame" because a few thousand people feel that they killed Inferno Diablo and that's all there is to the game so now Blizzard owes them more.
Get a grip. No company could be remotely profitable if it did what you were suggesting.
A. Players who don't use RMAH and realize the game is crap
B. Players who know this deep down, but have invested IRL money into D3 therefore they will argue saying its the best game just to defend their investment and hopefully not chase players away
Kripp was the world first Hardccore inferno clear. So take it from him,otherwise you're in denail, sir.
-J.W.
Agreed. He had some decent ideas, otherwise he was just blowing smoke out of his ass.
D2 Endgame...I'm sorry what?
D2 PvP...it was all about one shotting. I died ALOT in those days.
WoW is not about gear? Wait a second....
Yeah he was blowing smoke out of his ass. I think he went on a tangent and just pulled out whatever he could to emphasize his point just because he has a...fanbase.