Did you really read my post?
Yes I did play d2. And I listed everything D2 had that D3 is lacking.
What I forgot to mention in that post was that d2 was released what, 13 years ago?
It had a lot more re-playability value.
Sure when you compare d3 to nowaday games that require 10 hours to finish, congratulations - d3 is amazing.
If you compare it to d2 that came out 13 years ago. Where to get to max level took you forever, where ladder was reset frequently, etc etc - d3 is pathetic.
Getting to max level was not rewarding for the majority of players. You farmed the same content over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. This mentality is such a joke because you are so disillusioned into thinking it was more content. A ton of people didn't even play on the ladder because it had no meaning competing versus bots to reach 99 before them.
You must not have played HC either in D2, because lag/disconnects were also prevalent there too and people lost a lot of characters the same way you did in D3.
So if D3 had ladders and pvp, you'd have no argument based on your post.
@tyraen: when d3 was finnaly announced (i mean, really with closed beta and everything) my friends and i were excited as most of the ppl in this forum was. ive made a facebook group so we can discuss the game even before its release. the community grew up and we got to the point that we had over 150 friends or friends of friends who where wainting for the launch (we did a skype "party" on day 1 and everything). anyways, we were overjoyed. then most of us hit the inferno 2 wall. then the inferno 3 wall. then the ones who progressed tru it (myself included) got the 1.03 mass nerf. to sumarize it, in an active community of over 100 ppl (my friend list is huge) i can barely see 3 or 4 guys logged at the same time. so, basicly, im not talking of exodus because of the "common sense", im saying what ive seen in loco. i like the social aspect of this game, but im tired of playing with strangers because my friends are not playing it anymore. as i said in my first comment, im finishing the achievements then i think im done (unless some changes are made).
ps: sorry about the bad english, its my third language and its really early in the morning. lol
D2 had a lot more "end game" than D3. No need to compare to fucking wow or any other mmo.
Did you really play D2? What end game did D2 have that D3 is lacking other than the lame hostile mode and dueling?
If you compare it to d2 that came out 13 years ago. Where to get to max level took you forever, where ladder was reset frequently, etc etc - d3 is pathetic.
That's exactly the point, it was 13 years ago. Since then we grown accustomed to MMOs with new locations/gear tiers/ladder resets/new bosses etc. If D3 came out 13 years ago it would be miles ahead of D2 in both design and replayability, but now reality is different and Blizzard had to make tremendous efforts so ppls would play this game at least half time they played D2. Essentially they failed or didn't try hard enough becouse they knew that replayable D3 would hurt their WoW subscriptions.
Not bad. I always thought capping levels at 60 was a bad idea. Even if stats stopped at 60, they should have just allowed levels to keep going up even it it was just for "epeen" value. Or like Kripp suggests, special bonuses like faster TP cast time, more than 1 companion, etc.
I also agree that PvP without some sort of ranking and ladder system is totally worthless :/
because D2's PvP had a ladder and ranking system...oh wait....no it didn't.
stop trying to turn this game more into WoW Than it already is. Just wait till the Arena PvP is out (the fact that you can't pk in games is lame) , people will be crying classes are imbalanced and its just going to be another QQ fest all over again.
PvP was never meant to be an integral part of the game as their primary focus was always PvE content. With that being said don't take that out of context because PvP it still certainly fun and keeps the game going, but their not going to (at least they better not) shape the talents and skills around PvP balancing.
You are grabbing any straw to win an internet argument. Good for you, never let go when you realize that you're wrong.
Sorry man, I'm not trying to win an internet argument, just fizzling another cry baby about D3 not being D2 with ladders and pvp at launch. I'm done chiming in, carry on crying.
The only reason for people to be sceptical of this post, or the video it self, is cause they are having a blast trying to clear inferno.
I my self felt the same way a week or 2 ago, when people where whining about this too, but after clearing inferno 7 days ago, i havent hardly played at all... I can't see the reason why?
I started a HC char, and is trying to lvl him a bit, but i really wanted to work on my main SC char, and have some goal or something to do.. but there is literally NOTHING at all to do.
Sure you can make more gold, and be the richest person in the game, but so what if you allready have some of the best items in the game? (and no i didnt get fed from streams etc.) The last week i havent encountered a single challenge on inferno, that wasnt easy to me, and therefor it got very boring, and when things get boring you tend to stop doing them.
Sure pvp is comming, but when? I bought a game that was supposed to have pvp - well okay, if the game it self had a PvE endgame, that was playable for 6 months, then no problem - but it doesnt. If you have enough time to put into the game, (read are a hardcore gamer) there is no more than a month playtime for you, unless you like doing the same things over and over for no reason. Who wants to do the same for 2 months, 4 months or a year before pvp comes? I dont have any date to go for, just that "it will come in patch 1.1"
D2 had a lot more "end game" than D3. No need to compare to fucking wow or any other mmo.
Did you really play D2? What end game did D2 have that D3 is lacking other than the lame hostile mode and dueling?
D2 did not have more endgame, no way. Even the current D3 endgame feels better. It's just that there is currently no purpose to play it. In D2 you would do hours of Pindleskin to equip your new Lightning Sorc, that required different items than your previous four Sorcs or your Shout-Barb or to improve your PvP-Necro, for whom those little extra %s could actually matter.
In current D3 you have neither variations of classes(itemwise)* nor PvP and those aforementioned little extra %s don't matter in PvE. You beat it or you don't. It's sure nice to do it a little faster, but that's not that kind of motivation that D2 gave.
*Actually, for the Barb we could have a very long discussion about different builds and corresponding gear sets, but that's not the point, we will still only have 5 chars with maybe 1-2 gear sets each. Not close to infinite amounts of both.
Karalius,
There is a difference by beating inferno with exploits, and by killing all champion packs on the way. (Not saying you did that) But most so called "hardcore" gamers, exploited their way to the bosses to "finish" the game early. - IMO, and this is just my opinion, the game isnt beaten untill you can walk over all champion packs. Some say kill diablo no matter how, and game done.
I dont think Ihave any friends on my friends on my f.list that didnt clear inferno pre 1.0.3, either with exploits early, but all before 1.0.3 - even those of us who wanted to be able to take on the whole content, and not just the bosses.
I am pointing out actual flaws of d3. You are crying and writing down random crap that either no one was talking about or never actually happened. Send me a card on your 16th birthday, kid
You are crying about D3 end game being fail because it doesn't have a ladder or pvp like D2. Your memory and reading comprehension is fail. Maybe I can be a grown up too making youtube videos. Try harder, son.
What would champion levels do other the prove that you had a lot of time to play the game?
The whole point of the RMAH is that someone that works all the time and makes 200k a year can have a chance to play on the same footing as someone that plays 80 hours a week.
I stopped here "I know endgame better than anyone - I'm pretty sure", "I played videogames for 5-7 years"
what a fking trolling newfag... how old is he, 16?
If you are referring to kripp I believe what he meant was he plays a SINGLE GAME for 5-7 years. More to the point, seeing as he was world first hardcore inferno (and possible still the only person to do it im not sure) he probley does know the game better than practically anyone.
Terrible suggestions for someone who is an “expert in endgames”
Diablo 2 was about getting levels before reset and getting ítems. BOTH of them are important. Diablo 2 can’t be compared, sadly: lots of duping. Without stats points, items importance can’t change. D2 has terrible mistakes, at the end the game was disbalanced, i needed lots of patch. The same happens with D3. Both didnt habe end game except for reaching level 99 again and again and again.
The skill system goes against the reset suggestion. The chance of changing abilities makes the reset dumb.
I was against repair cost, but now I understand it. The ones who repair are the ones who can go through an act in a correct way. I cant pass act 3 inferno, I die so much and I have a lot to pay. I die 1-2 times at act 2, I don’t pay so much. The message: act 3 it’s not for me yet.
Blizzard can’t change the importance of gear. Sadly is the system again. The gear is important because we don’t have an attribute point system.
He is correct about PVP. Really low repair is the way. However the pvp will be with a matchmaking system with people of your same “gear score”.
Nice, he proposes Mu Online system for pve. (champion levels=mu progression after lvl 400) That’s not a ladder man, unless you suggest nearly impossible levels to reach (nearly a week playing to get one champion level). Believe champion levels its not answer, even more with the op abilities he suggests. I think its better if he says: “bring the expansion”
There can’t be faster tp. The faster tp its op, you can escape any champions.
You can’t have multiple followers; it would so op. Templar source regeneration and enchantress attack speed bonus? SO OP. To have them in multiplayer, a really really easier game.
I don’t like his idea however he is correct about pvp.
Anyway i respect him because he was the first on hardcore...wait wait? he took advantage of the exploits...well...that isnt bad...wait wait, he had farm teams...well everyone have lots and lots of friends...wait wait....he passed hardcore inferno before patch 1.03? well Kripp, it seems you love the ideas of Mu Online, go play Mu Online (i used to play :P)
People have already said it, but it appears we have a misunderstanding of genres combined with rose-colored nostalgia goggles. I don't think this discussion can even be honest.
It sounds like people just want some shallow set of goals to keep them mindlessly grinding on the game towards some false sense of progression. It never ceases to amaze me how "fun" is no longer its own reward when playing a video game. People play basketball for fun, golf for fun, ski for fun. People pay for entertainment to be entertained, except vocal gamers who think they deserve something for their time, even if that something is essentially meaningless.
Protip: If you are bored with the game because you beat Inferno a dozen times and have nothing to do then you play FAR too much. I think I can safely assume that anyone who has cleared Inferno and NOT used the AH has at least 200 hours of play time on their main character, or are approaching that if you're really good. Even AH users have to be clocking in at over 100.
You realize in the amount of time D3 has been out, to clock in 200+ hours you need to play at LEAST 5 hours a day, every single day? Where is anyone with a full time job, or school, or even a part time job finding the time to do this without sacrificing basically everything else in their life for that span of time? How is that healthy to do and then expect the game to have an infinitely long lifespan to sate your addiction?
EVERY game has an endpoint where there's nothing left. If you managed to get that much playtime out of it you've already nuked the playtime on pretty much every console game you buy that doesn't have competetive multiplayer. Trust me, for $60 you got your money's worth and then some.
They've already stated they are working on at LEAST 2 x-pacs, and patches are coming out pretty much every other week to balance and fix bugs. If you're THAT worried about beating Inferno and having NOTHING to do in the game, go see a movie every now and then, or play Quantum Conundrum, or study? D3 will be there when you get back, I promise.
Some of you are so focused on the destination you completely forget to enjoy the journey.
You can love or hate him, but he's made good points. He is in a unique spot with a good overview of the game, that a lot of people aren't at yet, cause majority of us (but noteveryone) still have plently of things to do in the game.
1) No, not everyone is in his position, with nothing left to do, but a lot of people feel that since they have cleared inferno, there isn't anything left to do aside from grind for gear that you don't need cause you can already clear everything, or roll another character class and do it all again.
-A lot of people are bound to their one character, they work hard for it, and they want that character to progress the game, not a bunch of characters. I felt the same way in WoW. I am done Act II inferno, and i work full time plus lead a social life, the game is not insanely challenging, and I have not touched the RMAH. He is right, the game has no end game content, sooner or later everyone is going to reach the same point, just based on how seriously they play the game, or how good they actually are at pushing 4 buttons and making some logical sense of skills, and connecting the dots to be successful.
2) A ranking system is part of what makes these games an ongoing addiction that you always want to play, you always want to be better than someone else, and have something to show off. his ideas are just simple ideas, that obviously would need a great amount of planning and balancing to be properly implemented, but the ladder system is something the game needs for both PvP and PvE. WoW has held a huge number of subscribers for exactly this reason. There are people that play either PvP or PvE, or both, based on just wanting to be the best. They want the top gear, they want the ability to say they are in a Top PvP bracket, or clearing the top raids. I know it, and I've been in that situation.
He makes a point, and I hope blizz see's it and takes it into consideration, because right now, my character doesn't have a large amount of time left to be entertaining to me, and I hope they find a way to keep me wanting to play my main character.
Nerf Items? Is he stupid?They need to buff the hell out of many of the items for this game to even have a chance of being better than it's predecessor, so I'm not at all sure what he means by that?
What made the ladder unenjoyable was that you HAD TO play it if you wanted to experience the full itemization. I would be fine with a ladder so long as the non-ladder experience offered the same itemization/skills.
So much fail in this thread talking about d2 not having an "end game"
-farm Keys
- to farm organs
- to farm uber's
Guarantee 75% of the people posting never had a good enough character in d2 to farm this world event easily.
Got your torch and your annilus yourself? <bet you didn't do that either.
Fact is Kripp's right, D2 has a ton more replayability because there was simply more to do. And he posts these videos because D2 still had content patches 5-7 years after release. Perfect time to fix things would be a content patch in 1.1.
So much fail in this thread talking about d2 not having an "end game"
-farm Keys
- to farm organs
- to farm uber's
Guarantee 75% of the people posting never had a good enough character in d2 to farm this world event easily.
Got your torch and your annilus yourself? <bet you didn't do that either.
Fact is Kripp's right, D2 has a ton more replayability because there was simply more to do. And he posts these videos because D2 still had content patches 5-7 years after release. Perfect time to fix things would be a content patch in 1.1.
This post wins that whole debate.
No it doesn't.
They didn't add Uber Tristram for a rather long time after the first expansion, yes yes? According to some quick Google searches Uber Tristram was in patch 1.11 which was released in August of 2005. Diablo 2 was released in June of 2000 and LoD was released in June of 2001. That means that your precious "endgame" that you tout wasn't actually implemented until four years after LoD. That alone makes your argument ill-informed, non sequitir, and argumentative.
For roughly four years people just played D2:LoD. No Uber Tristram. Nothing but item hunts and ladder resets to keep them interested. If D2 could not only go a full year between Vanilla and LoD but another four years between LoD and the amazing "endgame" that was Uber Tristram don't you think it's way too soon to be pissing, moaning, and groaning about D3? I mean, D3 has been out... 5 full weeks? Going on 6? Call me a fanboy, but I'm not exactly concerned. This isn't WoW and I don't need new content every 4 months.
Kripp's whole video shows a massive misunderstanding of the difference between MMOs and the Diablo franchise. When in the history of D2 did you ever hear anyone complaining about "endgame?" No. Why? Because that's something that has evolved only with the MMO genre. Hell, most people in EQ didn't drone on and on about "endgame."
EDIT
There would be no "discussion" here if everyone simply worked on facts, and not rose-colored glasses. The Uber Tristram argument is total bullshit once you look at a timeline. But the fact that some people are romanticizing it proves that their recollection of how D2 evolved is.... lacking.
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Getting to max level was not rewarding for the majority of players. You farmed the same content over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. This mentality is such a joke because you are so disillusioned into thinking it was more content. A ton of people didn't even play on the ladder because it had no meaning competing versus bots to reach 99 before them.
You must not have played HC either in D2, because lag/disconnects were also prevalent there too and people lost a lot of characters the same way you did in D3.
So if D3 had ladders and pvp, you'd have no argument based on your post.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
ps: sorry about the bad english, its my third language and its really early in the morning. lol
That's exactly the point, it was 13 years ago. Since then we grown accustomed to MMOs with new locations/gear tiers/ladder resets/new bosses etc. If D3 came out 13 years ago it would be miles ahead of D2 in both design and replayability, but now reality is different and Blizzard had to make tremendous efforts so ppls would play this game at least half time they played D2. Essentially they failed or didn't try hard enough becouse they knew that replayable D3 would hurt their WoW subscriptions.
because D2's PvP had a ladder and ranking system...oh wait....no it didn't.
stop trying to turn this game more into WoW Than it already is. Just wait till the Arena PvP is out (the fact that you can't pk in games is lame) , people will be crying classes are imbalanced and its just going to be another QQ fest all over again.
PvP was never meant to be an integral part of the game as their primary focus was always PvE content. With that being said don't take that out of context because PvP it still certainly fun and keeps the game going, but their not going to (at least they better not) shape the talents and skills around PvP balancing.
Sorry man, I'm not trying to win an internet argument, just fizzling another cry baby about D3 not being D2 with ladders and pvp at launch. I'm done chiming in, carry on crying.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
I my self felt the same way a week or 2 ago, when people where whining about this too, but after clearing inferno 7 days ago, i havent hardly played at all... I can't see the reason why?
I started a HC char, and is trying to lvl him a bit, but i really wanted to work on my main SC char, and have some goal or something to do.. but there is literally NOTHING at all to do.
Sure you can make more gold, and be the richest person in the game, but so what if you allready have some of the best items in the game? (and no i didnt get fed from streams etc.) The last week i havent encountered a single challenge on inferno, that wasnt easy to me, and therefor it got very boring, and when things get boring you tend to stop doing them.
Sure pvp is comming, but when? I bought a game that was supposed to have pvp - well okay, if the game it self had a PvE endgame, that was playable for 6 months, then no problem - but it doesnt. If you have enough time to put into the game, (read are a hardcore gamer) there is no more than a month playtime for you, unless you like doing the same things over and over for no reason. Who wants to do the same for 2 months, 4 months or a year before pvp comes? I dont have any date to go for, just that "it will come in patch 1.1"
D2 did not have more endgame, no way. Even the current D3 endgame feels better. It's just that there is currently no purpose to play it. In D2 you would do hours of Pindleskin to equip your new Lightning Sorc, that required different items than your previous four Sorcs or your Shout-Barb or to improve your PvP-Necro, for whom those little extra %s could actually matter.
In current D3 you have neither variations of classes(itemwise)* nor PvP and those aforementioned little extra %s don't matter in PvE. You beat it or you don't. It's sure nice to do it a little faster, but that's not that kind of motivation that D2 gave.
*Actually, for the Barb we could have a very long discussion about different builds and corresponding gear sets, but that's not the point, we will still only have 5 chars with maybe 1-2 gear sets each. Not close to infinite amounts of both.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
There is a difference by beating inferno with exploits, and by killing all champion packs on the way. (Not saying you did that) But most so called "hardcore" gamers, exploited their way to the bosses to "finish" the game early. - IMO, and this is just my opinion, the game isnt beaten untill you can walk over all champion packs. Some say kill diablo no matter how, and game done.
I dont think Ihave any friends on my friends on my f.list that didnt clear inferno pre 1.0.3, either with exploits early, but all before 1.0.3 - even those of us who wanted to be able to take on the whole content, and not just the bosses.
You are crying about D3 end game being fail because it doesn't have a ladder or pvp like D2. Your memory and reading comprehension is fail. Maybe I can be a grown up too making youtube videos. Try harder, son.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
The whole point of the RMAH is that someone that works all the time and makes 200k a year can have a chance to play on the same footing as someone that plays 80 hours a week.
If you are referring to kripp I believe what he meant was he plays a SINGLE GAME for 5-7 years. More to the point, seeing as he was world first hardcore inferno (and possible still the only person to do it im not sure) he probley does know the game better than practically anyone.
Diablo 2 was about getting levels before reset and getting ítems. BOTH of them are important. Diablo 2 can’t be compared, sadly: lots of duping. Without stats points, items importance can’t change. D2 has terrible mistakes, at the end the game was disbalanced, i needed lots of patch. The same happens with D3. Both didnt habe end game except for reaching level 99 again and again and again.
The skill system goes against the reset suggestion. The chance of changing abilities makes the reset dumb.
I was against repair cost, but now I understand it. The ones who repair are the ones who can go through an act in a correct way. I cant pass act 3 inferno, I die so much and I have a lot to pay. I die 1-2 times at act 2, I don’t pay so much. The message: act 3 it’s not for me yet.
Blizzard can’t change the importance of gear. Sadly is the system again. The gear is important because we don’t have an attribute point system.
He is correct about PVP. Really low repair is the way. However the pvp will be with a matchmaking system with people of your same “gear score”.
Nice, he proposes Mu Online system for pve. (champion levels=mu progression after lvl 400) That’s not a ladder man, unless you suggest nearly impossible levels to reach (nearly a week playing to get one champion level). Believe champion levels its not answer, even more with the op abilities he suggests. I think its better if he says: “bring the expansion”
There can’t be faster tp. The faster tp its op, you can escape any champions.
You can’t have multiple followers; it would so op. Templar source regeneration and enchantress attack speed bonus? SO OP. To have them in multiplayer, a really really easier game.
I don’t like his idea however he is correct about pvp.
Anyway i respect him because he was the first on hardcore...wait wait? he took advantage of the exploits...well...that isnt bad...wait wait, he had farm teams...well everyone have lots and lots of friends...wait wait....he passed hardcore inferno before patch 1.03? well Kripp, it seems you love the ideas of Mu Online, go play Mu Online (i used to play :P)
It sounds like people just want some shallow set of goals to keep them mindlessly grinding on the game towards some false sense of progression. It never ceases to amaze me how "fun" is no longer its own reward when playing a video game. People play basketball for fun, golf for fun, ski for fun. People pay for entertainment to be entertained, except vocal gamers who think they deserve something for their time, even if that something is essentially meaningless.
You realize in the amount of time D3 has been out, to clock in 200+ hours you need to play at LEAST 5 hours a day, every single day? Where is anyone with a full time job, or school, or even a part time job finding the time to do this without sacrificing basically everything else in their life for that span of time? How is that healthy to do and then expect the game to have an infinitely long lifespan to sate your addiction?
EVERY game has an endpoint where there's nothing left. If you managed to get that much playtime out of it you've already nuked the playtime on pretty much every console game you buy that doesn't have competetive multiplayer. Trust me, for $60 you got your money's worth and then some.
They've already stated they are working on at LEAST 2 x-pacs, and patches are coming out pretty much every other week to balance and fix bugs. If you're THAT worried about beating Inferno and having NOTHING to do in the game, go see a movie every now and then, or play Quantum Conundrum, or study? D3 will be there when you get back, I promise.
Some of you are so focused on the destination you completely forget to enjoy the journey.
1) No, not everyone is in his position, with nothing left to do, but a lot of people feel that since they have cleared inferno, there isn't anything left to do aside from grind for gear that you don't need cause you can already clear everything, or roll another character class and do it all again.
-A lot of people are bound to their one character, they work hard for it, and they want that character to progress the game, not a bunch of characters. I felt the same way in WoW. I am done Act II inferno, and i work full time plus lead a social life, the game is not insanely challenging, and I have not touched the RMAH. He is right, the game has no end game content, sooner or later everyone is going to reach the same point, just based on how seriously they play the game, or how good they actually are at pushing 4 buttons and making some logical sense of skills, and connecting the dots to be successful.
2) A ranking system is part of what makes these games an ongoing addiction that you always want to play, you always want to be better than someone else, and have something to show off. his ideas are just simple ideas, that obviously would need a great amount of planning and balancing to be properly implemented, but the ladder system is something the game needs for both PvP and PvE. WoW has held a huge number of subscribers for exactly this reason. There are people that play either PvP or PvE, or both, based on just wanting to be the best. They want the top gear, they want the ability to say they are in a Top PvP bracket, or clearing the top raids. I know it, and I've been in that situation.
He makes a point, and I hope blizz see's it and takes it into consideration, because right now, my character doesn't have a large amount of time left to be entertaining to me, and I hope they find a way to keep me wanting to play my main character.
What made the ladder unenjoyable was that you HAD TO play it if you wanted to experience the full itemization. I would be fine with a ladder so long as the non-ladder experience offered the same itemization/skills.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
-farm Keys
- to farm organs
- to farm uber's
Guarantee 75% of the people posting never had a good enough character in d2 to farm this world event easily.
Got your torch and your annilus yourself? <bet you didn't do that either.
Fact is Kripp's right, D2 has a ton more replayability because there was simply more to do. And he posts these videos because D2 still had content patches 5-7 years after release. Perfect time to fix things would be a content patch in 1.1.
No it doesn't.
They didn't add Uber Tristram for a rather long time after the first expansion, yes yes? According to some quick Google searches Uber Tristram was in patch 1.11 which was released in August of 2005. Diablo 2 was released in June of 2000 and LoD was released in June of 2001. That means that your precious "endgame" that you tout wasn't actually implemented until four years after LoD. That alone makes your argument ill-informed, non sequitir, and argumentative.
For roughly four years people just played D2:LoD. No Uber Tristram. Nothing but item hunts and ladder resets to keep them interested. If D2 could not only go a full year between Vanilla and LoD but another four years between LoD and the amazing "endgame" that was Uber Tristram don't you think it's way too soon to be pissing, moaning, and groaning about D3? I mean, D3 has been out... 5 full weeks? Going on 6? Call me a fanboy, but I'm not exactly concerned. This isn't WoW and I don't need new content every 4 months.
Kripp's whole video shows a massive misunderstanding of the difference between MMOs and the Diablo franchise. When in the history of D2 did you ever hear anyone complaining about "endgame?" No. Why? Because that's something that has evolved only with the MMO genre. Hell, most people in EQ didn't drone on and on about "endgame."
EDIT
There would be no "discussion" here if everyone simply worked on facts, and not rose-colored glasses. The Uber Tristram argument is total bullshit once you look at a timeline. But the fact that some people are romanticizing it proves that their recollection of how D2 evolved is.... lacking.