Auction House Greed & Crafting

  • #1
    Some might ask why I'm rehashing common knowledge that the Auction House is full of greedy people. I guess I'm also trying to point out to DiabloFans forum members that using the Auction House (more specifically, the GAH) doesn't always work out in your favour.

    Here's my reasoning:

    I want to change the 7 Perfect Square Topaz that I have socketed into various armour items, and my rings with Radiant Square Topaz.

    In order to craft them, I'll need 7x6 Tome Of Secrets and 7x3 Perfect Square Topaz, costing 50,000 each to craft for a total of 560,000 Gold.

    Except I have no Perfect Square Topaz to spare in my stash, so I'll have to make them first. So without accounting for those that I've already socketed, I first need to craft 21 Perfect Square Topaz, requiring 7x3 Tome Of Secrets and 7x3 Flawless Square Topaz, costing 30,000 each for a total of 210,000 Gold.

    This adds up as follows:
    210,000
    560,000
    770,000

    However, if you search the Gold Auction House for 7 Radiant Square Topaz, you get a total purchase price of 1,214,150 (This was the buyout price I saw about 30 minutes before making this post). It is therefore cheaper for me to craft the gems I need instead of going to the AH to buy them. By crafting the gems, I'll be saving 444,150 Gold. It may take a little longer, but it'll most certainly be a cost saving in the long run.

    I haven't checked the RMAH gems prices yet, but I'd like to know what people are paying for gems there...
    Peter Alexander Dzomlija Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? And as you die, so shall I be Reborn...
  • #2
    From what I understand, the commodity auctions are not yet enabled on the RMAH. I often found it cheaper to make the high level gems and sell them for high profit. But it does cost lots of money and resources to craft great gems.
  • #3
    They dont have gems listed on the RMAH yet because commodities aren't allowed as of yet.

    You also forgot to take into account the gold sink 15% fee that battlenet charges for a completed AH transaction. So 182,155 gold comes off your stated profit of 444,150 gold. You are also not taking into account that some sellers don't find all their materials. Like, If I wanted to sell high tier gems in bulk I don't find 300 flawless topaz every other day so I'll look on the AH for some at 250-300 gold a pop. Also, tomes are needed which could run from 600-700 gold. Maybe some people don't level up their jeweler and look to the AH for their gems. Well, the players that DID level up their jeweler paid gold to train up to the point where they can craft higher level gems. So they'll charge a fee for crafting that gem for said player.
  • #4
    Anecdotal evidence: I crafted a star amethyst entirely from my own materials and sold it on the AH. After the 15% fee, I made about 35k profit.

    Profit, no doubt, but in my opinion not worth it, considering it virtually wiped out my stash of amethysts.

    Your mileage may vary. Again, this is based upon one single instance and is certainly not demonstrative of any trend.

    In the future I will probably craft my own gems when I can afford it and NOT sell them.
  • #5
    Yes, the AH is a place for greedy and unreasonable people - as is the majority of humankind. :)

    But: I dont get why you are puzzled by the conclusion that the gems are so expensive.

    1) You need the receipe to drop. If you dont have it or know someone who has you cant craft it yourself. So people will profit from the fact that they have it and you dont - normal practice with all things to sell/buy in the realworld ;)

    2) There is the 15% fee. So the gems in the GAH will always be more expensive than crafting for yourself. Noone wants to loose money by selling gems on the GAH.

    3) Paying 400k more is still too much - so you have a point there - but as almost everything is way to expensive in the GAH it would be better to find someone over forum or general chat who will craft things for you, you cant do yourself. Thats the sad thing really - the GAH could be such a nice and easy way to trade, but the prices screw it up big time :-(
  • #6

    They dont have gems listed on the RMAH yet because commodities aren't allowed as of yet.

    You also forgot to take into account the gold sink 15% fee that battlenet charges for a completed AH transaction. So 182,155 gold comes off your stated profit of 444,150 gold. You are also not taking into account that some sellers don't find all their materials. Like, If I wanted to sell high tier gems in bulk I don't find 300 flawless topaz every other day so I'll look on the AH for some at 250-300 gold a pop. Also, tomes are needed which could run from 600-700 gold. Maybe some people don't level up their jeweler and look to the AH for their gems. Well, the players that DID level up their jeweler paid gold to train up to the point where they can craft higher level gems. So they'll charge a fee for crafting that gem for said player.


    Even so, it still leaves me with a savings of 377,527 Gold.

    And I don't fully recall how much I paid for it (I think around 80,000 or so), but when I hit level 60, Ipurchased a stack of 200 Tome Of Secrets to keep in my stash, because I have a hard enough time surviving in Inferno, let alone looking for TOS drops.


    Anecdotal evidence: I crafted a star amethyst entirely from my own materials and sold it on the AH. After the 15% fee, I made about 35k profit.

    Profit, no doubt, but in my opinion not worth it, considering it virtually wiped out my stash of amethysts.

    Your mileage may vary. Again, this is based upon one single instance and is certainly not demonstrative of any trend.

    In the future I will probably craft my own gems when I can afford it and NOT sell them.


    Gems for me are not a problem, as I have an entire tab dedicated to gems of all colours and qualities....
    Peter Alexander Dzomlija Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? And as you die, so shall I be Reborn...
  • #7
    LOL WELCOME TO REAL LIFE. You always pay for service, why would anyone take their time to craft gems and put them on the AH, without any profit, just for you, so that you can save that same amount of time? Supply - Demand, as long as there are more lazy people than those willing to take their time and craft gems and put them on the AH, crafted gem prices will be higher. If more people decide to do the same, prices will go down, but if people aren't stupid it will never go below crafting cost+auction house cut.

    Also since auctions are capped, it would be reasonable to believe that there will always be a good amount of profit on crafted gems, since they take up a slot, where you could have listed an other item for profit. It's not called greed, it's called logic.
  • #8
    1) You need the receipe to drop. If you dont have it or know someone who has you cant craft it yourself. So people will profit from the fact that they have it and you dont - normal practice with all things to sell/buy in the realworld ;)

    The Jeweler can go has far a Radiant Square Topaz when fully trained, and not require any additional recipies. I worry about getting recipies for better gems when the time comes...

    2) There is the 15% fee. So the gems in the GAH will always be more expensive than crafting for yourself. Noone wants to loose money by selling gems on the GAH.

    3) Paying 400k more is still too much - so you have a point there - but as almost everything is way to expensive in the GAH it would be better to find someone over forum or general chat who will craft things for you, you cant do yourself. Thats the sad thing really - the GAH could be such a nice and easy way to trade, but the prices screw it up big time :-(

    Too true! I myself crafted some Rubies for a friend (playing a Barbarian) some time ago because his Jeweler was not trained far enough yet. But [Insert Colorful Expletive Here], I think people are being purposefully idiotic with their prices, because they don't really want the AH, and want to see it fail.

    I'd rather list an item for 50,000 or so and be certain that it would sell (sometimes I must list 2 or 3 times before it does) before I list the item for 20,000,000 and KNOW that it would never sell at that price. The highest succesful sale I've made was for around 125,000.

    The most I've ever been prepared to pay for an item was 500,000, when I purchased a socketable Azurewrath for my Wizard, and that pushed here DPS up by about 13,000 points....
    Peter Alexander Dzomlija Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? And as you die, so shall I be Reborn...
  • #9

    LOL WELCOME TO REAL LIFE. You always pay for service, why would anyone take their time to craft gems and put them on the AH, without any profit, just for you, so that you can save that same amount of time? Supply - Demand, as long as there are more lazy people than those willing to take their time and craft gems and put them on the AH, crafted gem prices will be higher. If more people decide to do the same, prices will go lower, but if people aren't stupid it will never go below crafting cost+auction house cut.


    I'm not expecting prices to go below (or even equal to) crafting costs, but for crying out loud, is it really necessary for players to be demanding prices that are more than twice the normal crafting costs?

    I don't always understand economics, but I do understand the the law of supply and demand. But I'd still personally wait for prices to drop to more acceptable levels before considering the AH more efficient than crafting them myself.
    Peter Alexander Dzomlija Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? And as you die, so shall I be Reborn...
  • #10

    But I'd still personally wait for prices to drop to more acceptable levels before considering the AH more efficient than crafting them myself.


    So do I, but since traffic on the AH is pretty high with so many players, it means that:
    A) Sellers are idiots, and they never sell their gems with such a high profit margin (not likely, even an idiot would have figured that out after 1-2 unsuccesful sales..)
    B) There are enough wealthy lazy people, who buy gems at those prices instead of crafting them, so sellers don't need to decrease their prices for their gems to be sold.
  • #11

    But I'd still personally wait for prices to drop to more acceptable levels before considering the AH more efficient than crafting them myself.


    I doubt the AH will ever be more efficient than crafting gems for yourself, simply because they will never drop. Someone will always have to craft them, meaning they will always have to gather the requirements to craft them, in addition to dealing with the AH listing fee.

    The best case one could hope for beyond someone not knowing arithmetic is to purchase them for the cost of materials + 15%.

    I don't ever expect to be able to get gems from the AH at the exact break even price point because it simply isn't worth it for people to get rid of their gems for no profit.
  • #12

    The best case one could hope for beyond someone not knowing arithmetic is to purchase them for the cost of materials + 15%.


    Plus the profit you don't make by sacrificing one of the 10 auction slots you have. Which might be 0 if you don't use the AH too much, sure.

    Also it's not crafting cost + 15%, it's crafting cost + 17,64705882352941176470588235294% cause 1,1764705882352941176470588235294 * (1-0,15) = 1
  • #13


    LOL WELCOME TO REAL LIFE. You always pay for service, why would anyone take their time to craft gems and put them on the AH, without any profit, just for you, so that you can save that same amount of time? Supply - Demand, as long as there are more lazy people than those willing to take their time and craft gems and put them on the AH, crafted gem prices will be higher. If more people decide to do the same, prices will go lower, but if people aren't stupid it will never go below crafting cost+auction house cut.


    I'm not expecting prices to go below (or even equal to) crafting costs, but for crying out loud, is it really necessary for players to be demanding prices that are more than twice the normal crafting costs?

    I don't always understand economics, but I do understand the the law of supply and demand. But I'd still personally wait for prices to drop to more acceptable levels before considering the AH more efficient than crafting them myself.


    The AH will never be more efficient than crafting the gems yourself. But if you've got many slotted items you're only going to have so many high tiered gems from your time spent gathering and crafting these gems.
  • #14

    The best case one could hope for beyond someone not knowing arithmetic is to purchase them for the cost of materials + 15%.


    explanation.


    Also it's not crafting cost + 15%, it's crafting cost + 17,64705882352941176470588235294%


    valid math.

    /thread
  • #15
    I have made a spreadsheet, counting in all the factors of upgrading gems. I input the new gem prices into it once a day or so, and so far, it has pretty much never been profitable to upgrade gems yourself.

    This is on EU, mind you.
  • #16

    I have made a spreadsheet, counting in all the factors of upgrading gems. I input the new gem prices into it once a day or so, and so far, it has pretty much never been profitable to upgrade gems yourself.

    This is usually true up through Flawless Square, because these drop. Higher than this is where things get interesting.

    In a broader sense, I don't consider upgrading gems past Flawless Square to be worthwhile: the costs are very high, and the gains are minimal. I don't think costs need to go down, I think the benefits need to go up, scaling with the gold investment.
  • #17
    Since they've already addressed the cost of crafting up to Flawless squared in the latest patch and ignored the high cost of higher tiered gems I doubt Blizz is going to address the cost/benefit of the higher tiered gems in the near future. I agree that the benefit does need to go up to match the cost of producing these babys but to what end. When you start buffing the effects of these gems you have to balance the game by either increasing the current HP of monsters or decreasing the drop rate of gems.
  • #18
    well, you obviously didnt think about the cost to level JC up to level 10. i know that now is cheap, but when i got mine maxed on the first week, ive spent lots of gold in it.

    maybe, thats why ppl are charging more to craft those
    "Mess with the best, die like the rest"
  • #19
    How is it "greed"? If that is the lowest price available, that is the market price. What incentive do those people have to sell lower? Why does so much of the D3 community think that things should be sold for less than what some people are willing to pay for them? If you think the AH price is unreasonable... DONT BUY IT. That person won't sell their item, and will have to lower the price. Its the most basic economics possible.

    Also, given the cost of gems, mats, crafting fees, and 15% AH, I can tell you that you are actually losing money selling a Star gem of any type on the AH. Believe me, I tried to make money doing this and failed.
  • #20
    Greed?

    If i need a gem i go and buy it, i don't mind overpaying cause i don't waste my time with getting recipes, tomes, leveling artisan etc.
    You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
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