Diablo 3 and Poorly Implemented Difficulty

  • #81
    Quote from Furyandhate

    Yes we need to get better gear with defensive stats, but the game is so enclosed that it feels boring to do so because everything is encapsulated inside a quest. In D2 you never had to really do a quest when farming. You could just go to zones and clear them letting items drop as they do. This is what was fun about D2 farming items wasnt constricted to having to hear the same thing over and over again or running through the same god forsaken tunnels for a stupid jewelcrafter over and over again.

    More over farming for items wasnt instant one shots whenever an elite came on screen. There were plenty of elites that you could kill (because your build countered it in some way) and then mobs that countered you and you would bang your head against the wall over them. It is not fun to fight a mob that you cant get far away from (mortar, teleport, fast) and you cant get close to (plagued,desecrate) but you cant escape from (waller,jailer) oh and you cant nuke down (shield,extra health).



    I dont know when the last time you played D2 but you didn't farm in the world either. Baal/Diablo/Maphisto Runs all night long....

    I may be in the minority but actually playing through dungeons and the content is fun and way more enjoyable. I get the frustration people have about inferno and I expect some tweaks but lets be honest about what we are seeing and what was asked for in Inferno (something insanely hard bla bla bla). Now I can admit that right now its probably overtuned but we still have some poeple clearing content in inferno post nerfs to the classes (except barbs... poor poor bars just got hosed).

    But considering Blizz stated it would take MONTHS to clear (I am not talking about the crazy ones like Method and what not - just you and me normal players) I am not surprised by the fact that people are dying left right and center.

    The one point that I will concede is that gear that is dropping is TOO random in that the level range is too extreme. I should be getting items that are relevant for at least act IV hell act 1 inferno in act 1 inferno not stuff for act 1 hell (rares I am looking at you). On that note I have no problems with utter crap dropping if its in the intended level range.
  • #82
    Quote from pasiakent »

    It seems that you are still a new players.


    So much this.

    It has become more and more clear that the reason people are annoyed is that they are under-geared, and think asking them to gear up or refine their build is bad design.

    That's the Diablo series folks.

    If they release D4, that's what it will be like. Hard gear checks, farming, and RNG loot tables.
    I grew up gaming without internet forums. The entire phenomenon of being upset with a game developer makes no sense to me. No sense. I cannot imagine spending my time and energy being upset about something I choose to do for recreation.
  • #83
    Quote from Furyandhate

    I'm tired of reading these forums and hearing people say "get better gear" yes diablo is about gear, but lets face it "getting better gear" isn't fun its a chore its not hack and slash its "poke and run for your life or become invincible for a few seconds".

    If you didn't expect to be constantly farming the previous difficultiy just to get better gear for to advance in the next difficulity mode, you bought the wrong game.

    Quote from Furyandhate

    More over farming for items wasnt instant one shots whenever an elite came on screen. There were plenty of elites that you could kill (because your build countered it in some way) and then mobs that countered you and you would bang your head against the wall over them. It is not fun to fight a mob that you cant get far away from (mortar, teleport, fast) and you cant get close to (plagued,desecrate) but you cant escape from (waller,jailer) oh and you cant nuke down (shield,extra health).

    In Diablo2 going straight from Normal to Nightmare and Nightmare to Hell you're saying you didn't get 1 shotted by bosses without farming for gear? Then we were playing very different games.


    Quote from Furyandhate

    Without this room farming isnt farming its just progressing through the constant tunnels they are pushing us through. I really am so confused why they got rid of the big open randomly generated squares. That is what made farming fun you have to have space to grow (shut up it was funny). Making elites 1 hit wonders when you dont even have the room to kite them is just a poor programming decision in my opinion to cover up the fact that the game doesnt really have alot of space.

    Main chage is instead of Boss farming we are now game (elite/champion) farming. Its a design change and some like it some don't.

    Quote from Furyandhate

    Diablo has always been about destroying hordes of minions because your build was made to destroy A, in D3 your spec is a generalized whatever (or switch because this one thing needs this certain thing) therefor since your spec is generalized the mobs better just cover everything and call it a day! This is a poor design what is the point of playing a ranged character if you dont counter certain things (I'm talking hell difficulty and up). Why play a melee character if you dont counter something? Everything has just been homogenized into this big roll of make everything equally hard for everyone. (lets not count the skills that are clearly broken).

    Huh? So if you built a barbarian and faced a 100% physical immune elite in D2 or a Frozen Orb sorceress and faced a 100% immune elite? Worse in Hell you faced elites with 2 immunities as well and it was basically create a new game. How is this different?
  • #84
    So how is it not related to skill? Try doing Inferno naked like people did in D2 HC Mode. Try doing Ubertrist naked on HC. If you was skilled enough in D2 you could have done it, people actually did it. Try remove your weapon in d3 you wont get past the butcher in normal difficulty.

    This game is just lacking depth.
  • #85
    Quote from Nephelem

    So how is it not related to skill? Try doing Inferno naked like people did in D2 HC Mode. Try doing Ubertrist naked on HC. If you was skilled enough in D2 you could have done it, people actually did it. Try remove your weapon in d3 you wont get past the butcher in normal difficulty.

    This game is just lacking depth.


    Your comparing drastically different mechanics. If you want a proper comparison try do Uberttrist with 1 point in any abilities (can't be done). D3 is based off of gear to enhance your abilities, D2 was based off of skill points. Keep in mind the Uber's came out how long after release? I think we have 6+ years for Blizz to balance the game till that point.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #86
    Quote from Nephelem

    So how is it not related to skill? Try doing Inferno naked like people did in D2 HC Mode. Try doing Ubertrist naked on HC. If you was skilled enough in D2 you could have done it, people actually did it. Try remove your weapon in d3 you wont get past the butcher in normal difficulty.

    This game is just lacking depth.


    "You can't beat the game naked so the game sucks"

    I never thought I would hear something like this... Sad
  • #87
    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    So you know of a DH who stacks defense and can survive in inferno?



    Check youtube comments for stats.

    Pre Inferno Nerf.
  • #88
    Quote from Slayerviper

    Quote from Nephelem

    So how is it not related to skill? Try doing Inferno naked like people did in D2 HC Mode. Try doing Ubertrist naked on HC. If you was skilled enough in D2 you could have done it, people actually did it. Try remove your weapon in d3 you wont get past the butcher in normal difficulty.

    This game is just lacking depth.


    Your comparing drastically different mechanics. If you want a proper comparison try do Uberttrist with 1 point in any abilities (can't be done). D3 is based off of gear to enhance your abilities, D2 was based off of skill points. Keep in mind the Uber's came out how long after release? I think we have 6+ years for Blizz to balance the game till that point.


    EXACTLY

    You could do D2 naked because you could just stack your points into whatever skill and OP your way through the game, thats hardly "good game design".

    Last time I checked, D2 players (myself included) wanted a harder game, Blizzard gave us exactly that.

    I also distinctly remember Blizzard saying "you will have to farm each act in Inferno for WEEKS to progress" and lo and behold, thats exactly what they gave us.
  • #89
    Complaining that D3 is a gear-oriented grindfest that requires little or no skill (Low geared Demon Hunters do require some skill. Try surviving a few hits without moving.) is like complaining that Final Fantasy is turn based. It's the guiding design principle on which the entire Diablo franchise is based.

    You kill monsters. You level up. Monsters drop gear. You slowly upgrade gear.

    The only difference between D2 and D3 is that the final difficulty isn't exactly face-rollable out of the box. You can't just join a group for speed Baal runs and jump from 1 to 70+ in a single night. They tuned Inferno to be the hardest difficulty setting. Literally.

    It sounds like you're comparing Diablo to WoW, where skill is a factor in everything they design. However, this is not the case. The only skill involved is not throwing your corpse at the enemy, and attempting to complete hardcore on Inferno. It IS doable. It's been done. Complaining about the gear requirements for farming inferno isn't really productive. Instead, you could always post about constructive and realistic ideas of how gameplay can be tuned to where throwing your body at mobs is more fun for the whole family!
  • #90
    Since when was a gear check an increase in game difficulty?

    A gear check is a "You must be this tall to ride" function. Nothing else. It adds nothing to the gameplay and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with difficulty.

    Creature and boss mechanics are what makes for a difficult and challenging game.

    Blizzard took the easy way out and simply turned the gear check to 11.

    For instance, the Belial fight is awesome. You CAN defeat that boss with extremely bad gear. You just have to know when and where to move, when it is a good idea to grab health globes and when you should be saving them. THAT is a challenge. The gear is still important. With enough gear, the mechanics mean less and less, but the point is that the challenge provided by the interesting mechanics is kept intact while still having a gear check.

    I for one liked running for bosses in D2. Granted, anything gets boring after 500+ kills, but guess what... SO DOES KILLING ELITES!

    Give us options, different things to do. Make bosses a viable grind option, keep elites as a viable option, implement gauntlet events like "Jar of Souls" but make them much more involved and longer. Give the player options for grinding instead of telling the player to do 1 thing and 1 thing only.
  • #91
    Quote from Veritaas

    I've created a video here outlining the problems with inferno:



    Normal mode act 2 and up is a gear check, the whole game of Diablo 3 is a gear check. Sure you can find most of the gear you need from constant drops in normal, NM and hell, so the difference is you have to farm for the gear check in inferno. I really don't see the problem with this at all.

    Yet another whole 'Diablo 3 is completely flawed!!!' thread is boiled down to 'I couldn't beat it in like a week! I can't faceroll it! it's haaaaarrrrrdddd!'
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #92
    Gear checks are difficulty markers in WoW and other MMOs as well. It's just one more tool in their toolbox. It forces you to push through prior material in order to prepare for it. If you pay attention to other games, you'll notice that they have methods of increasing the amount of time you play without increasing the amount of effort they have to put forth. It's a common practice. It's not a bad practice, but with game creation costs and such, they have to find ways of putting more in.

    Gear checks are viable, though they could have implemented better methods of increasing difficulty, but the RC of the game isn't even 2 months old yet. They're taking fan advice into account and are making tweaks as they go along. Inferno was much harder before. But people want things now now now, and do not account for development times. They're not only working on bug fixes. They're also running around creating new things here and there as well. You can't blame them for it, as the corporate hierarchy demands that they pump out new features as well. Give it time, and things will start to change for the better. They're implementing changes that have an effect on the playability now.

    I bet that at least 60% of the people who complain about game difficulty only want shiny lewts handed to them. They figure that if they complain enough, Blizzard will give it to them. The feeling of accomplishment is dulled when you are drowning in yellow text. But hey, whatever pays the bills right? Lol...
  • #93
    Quote from istreamer

    There is no amount of defensive stats a DH could have where they wouldnt get one shot in inferno. Like none. [snip]

    Guess what DHs dont have? any defensive skills/runes/or passives. The only exception to this is shadow power, which is life regen and doesn't cut it at all in inferno. And of course SS, which has now been neutered into not being usable with ANY rune.

    If you attempt to stack defensive stats other than some vitality as a DH, then you are a complete idiot.


    this guy and his video of a DH stacking defensive gear and skills based around crit would disagree with you.
    diablofans dot com/topic/57902-the-immortal-dh/ (sorry, can't post links)

    It may be too expensive for you, perhaps you would not like the play style, but making a global statement saying "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE AND ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH ME IS AN IDIOT" when there is a thread on this site towards the top of your class forum directly refuting your statement makes you seem a bit silly.
  • #94
    Quote from Doez

    Quote from Svennyy

    I do agree that they should find other ways of making inferno hard. Gear should not be the only thing that matters.


    Gear is the only thing that matters in Diablo games.


    Well why bother with skills then? why not just use 1 single attack, and lets not bother having tactics, or kiting, lets just stand still while we use this basic attack, dont sound lame please, gear is not ''THE ONLY'' thing that matters
  • #95
    Quote from paroxysm2010

    Quote from Doez

    Quote from Svennyy

    I do agree that they should find other ways of making inferno hard. Gear should not be the only thing that matters.


    Gear is the only thing that matters in Diablo games.


    Well why bother with skills then? why not just use 1 single attack, and lets not bother having tactics, or kiting, lets just stand still while we use this basic attack, dont sound lame please, gear is not ''THE ONLY'' thing that matters


    I'm playing tank-doctor at the moment and... it's all that... spam toads, keep defensives on CD and wait till mobs die... if I have enough gold to buy better gear I will just repeat it in act3/4 :)
  • #96
    Belial is the only challenge in the game, everything else is a gear check.

    Cwatididthar?
  • #97
    Quote from SFJake

    Well, well, someone that shares my point of view.

    I completely agree with you when it comes to difficulty and items.

    It specifically bothers me that Blizzard openly states Inferno is "challenging". Its not. Almost nothing in the game is actually of any challenge. One could say finding those awkward builds that worked in Inferno was the challenge, but obviously "cheap builds" are out of the question, as they will get nerfed.

    The game is an immense gear check and I have little love for that, if thats all it is.

    And the items, boy oh boy... I never believed before the game was released, that they would miss the mark as much as they did. Legendaries in DIablo 3 are less interesting than blue items in Diablo 2.


    And frankly, I really, genuinly expected higher difficulties to present new mechanics. New attacks for monsters and bosses, new patterns, new things (THAT CAN BE DEALT WITH) that challenges you and make you learn.

    The only new things are elite stacking effects that become impossible to avoid or deal with. There was zero effort in the new difficulties. Pumping the stats is the laziest way I expected a big company to handle this, especially when that is ALL there is for endgame.
    Quote from Doez

    Gear is the only thing that matters in Diablo games.

    No. Its an action game for a reason. Why be an action game if skill barely matters? Thats absurd.


    So Diablo 2 was absurd?

    I dare you to say D2 took "skill", DARE YOU.
  • #98
    since i did Play D3 and DarkSoul (played most of contents , those are 2 different games)
    you can compare DarkSoul vs Dragon Dogma
    Demon Hunter Owner :-)
    My YouTube Check it !
  • #99
    Quote from AudioCG

    Quote from SFJake

    Well, well, someone that shares my point of view.

    I completely agree with you when it comes to difficulty and items.

    It specifically bothers me that Blizzard openly states Inferno is "challenging". Its not. Almost nothing in the game is actually of any challenge. One could say finding those awkward builds that worked in Inferno was the challenge, but obviously "cheap builds" are out of the question, as they will get nerfed.

    The game is an immense gear check and I have little love for that, if thats all it is.

    And the items, boy oh boy... I never believed before the game was released, that they would miss the mark as much as they did. Legendaries in DIablo 3 are less interesting than blue items in Diablo 2.


    And frankly, I really, genuinly expected higher difficulties to present new mechanics. New attacks for monsters and bosses, new patterns, new things (THAT CAN BE DEALT WITH) that challenges you and make you learn.

    The only new things are elite stacking effects that become impossible to avoid or deal with. There was zero effort in the new difficulties. Pumping the stats is the laziest way I expected a big company to handle this, especially when that is ALL there is for endgame.
    Quote from Doez

    Gear is the only thing that matters in Diablo games.

    No. Its an action game for a reason. Why be an action game if skill barely matters? Thats absurd.


    So Diablo 2 was absurd?

    I dare you to say D2 took "skill", DARE YOU.


    like i said who needs skills, use basic skill and stand in one spot, toss strategy out the window.
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