Without Ladder Resets, D3 Replayability is Doomed.

  • #41
    Quote from Beechsack

    If your economy analysis includes the words 'might' or 'probably', you're doing it wrong.

    If any economist isn't using the words "might" and "probably", they are lying to you.
  • #42
    Quote from lorien1973

    Quote from Beechsack

    If your economy analysis includes the words 'might' or 'probably', you're doing it wrong.

    If any economist isn't using the words "might" and "probably", they are lying to you.

    yeah, pretty much
  • #43
    Quote from lorien1973

    Quote from Beechsack

    If your economy analysis includes the words 'might' or 'probably', you're doing it wrong.

    If any economist isn't using the words "might" and "probably", they are lying to you.


    An actual economist has data to base future predictions from.

    Nobody has such data for D3 .
  • #44
    Remember that in D3, after you kill a boss once, the best loot will come from rare champion packs which are random. The only real threat to the economy is dupes.
    ☆ ✮ ✯
  • #45
    what's a ladder reset? What's the point in playing a game, if all your progress eventually gets wiped? How would you feel about having all your WOW characters wiped? Or your bank account/house wiped and start from scratch?
  • #46
    Quote from Pryda

    Remember that in D3, after you kill a boss once, the best loot will come from rare champion packs which are random. The only real threat to the economy is dupes.


    Doesn't mean a bot can't run around and clear an entire map unfortunately.
  • #47
    Quote from Bushgoon

    what's a ladder reset? What's the point in playing a game, if all your progress eventually gets wiped? How would you feel about having all your WOW characters wiped? Or your bank account/house wiped and start from scratch?


    The game is about treasure hunting. Whats the point of playing when you already have the best stuff? They can't make a new expansion every year for 10+ years, so they just reset the ladder.


    Quote from kallell

    Quote from Pryda

    Remember that in D3, after you kill a boss once, the best loot will come from rare champion packs which are random. The only real threat to the economy is dupes.


    Doesn't mean a bot can't run around and clear an entire map unfortunately.


    Im no expert, but I imagine it would be pretty hard because you will need to use different tactics for different champoions. Plus you will need to pick up health globes at the right times. And there won't be a one button spam build for any of the classes.
    ☆ ✮ ✯
  • #48
    Quote from kallell


    Well to be fair, while there isn't a RMAH in hc, that won't people from buying and selling via 3rd party sites and forums.


    Hmm true enough but if people lost their items they full well knew too bad so sad if they bought from 3rd party sites. It would be different since these items are now done through blizzard; hence why I don't see it happening in softcore.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #49
    Quote from Pryda

    Quote from Bushgoon

    what's a ladder reset? What's the point in playing a game, if all your progress eventually gets wiped? How would you feel about having all your WOW characters wiped? Or your bank account/house wiped and start from scratch?


    The game is about treasure hunting. Whats the point of playing when you already have the best stuff? They can't make a new expansion every year for 10+ years, so they just reset the ladder.


    Quote from kallell

    Quote from Pryda

    Remember that in D3, after you kill a boss once, the best loot will come from rare champion packs which are random. The only real threat to the economy is dupes.


    Doesn't mean a bot can't run around and clear an entire map unfortunately.


    Im no expert, but I imagine it would be pretty hard because you will need to use different tactics for different champoions. Plus you will need to pick up health globes at the right times. And there won't be a one button spam build for any of the classes.


    True, but bots are rediculous nowadays. Back before when i was botting wow, they had bots that were able to join the random dungeon and fight the entire way throught. This included healing, dpsing, and tanking.
  • #50
    Three things.

    1. A ladder reset does NOT delete ur gear.

    2. If blizzard isnt lying beyond understanding i dont see bots being able to do inferno or maybe even hell.

    3.Could the people stating the market will get flooded in months please list time spent farming in d2 and how many of the best items they have found. If they cant than stop making assumptions based on nothing.
  • #51
    Quote from Thesecondone

    Three things.

    1. A ladder reset does NOT delete ur gear.

    2. If blizzard isnt lying beyond understanding i dont see bots being able to do inferno or maybe even hell

    3.Could the people stating the market will get flooded in months please list time spent farming in d2 and how many of the best items they have found. If they cant than stop making assumptions based on nothing.


    Good points =D No doubt there WILL be bots, but I'm betting it will be a LONG time before they can beat even hell. There's also the other side of who cares if there ARE bots? The best items are purely luck, and without hacks or dupes it's just a small handful of more players compared to the millions that will be the player base.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #52
    Quote from kallell

    Quote from Pryda

    Quote from Bushgoon

    what's a ladder reset? What's the point in playing a game, if all your progress eventually gets wiped? How would you feel about having all your WOW characters wiped? Or your bank account/house wiped and start from scratch?


    The game is about treasure hunting. Whats the point of playing when you already have the best stuff? They can't make a new expansion every year for 10+ years, so they just reset the ladder.


    Quote from kallell

    Quote from Pryda

    Remember that in D3, after you kill a boss once, the best loot will come from rare champion packs which are random. The only real threat to the economy is dupes.


    Doesn't mean a bot can't run around and clear an entire map unfortunately.


    Im no expert, but I imagine it would be pretty hard because you will need to use different tactics for different champoions. Plus you will need to pick up health globes at the right times. And there won't be a one button spam build for any of the classes.


    True, but bots are rediculous nowadays. Back before when i was botting wow, they had bots that were able to join the random dungeon and fight the entire way throught. This included healing, dpsing, and tanking.


    That's because it's all the same. Every time. Even on bosses with some 'random' characteristics like where they are going to jump or cast a spell, it's still easy to write a script for it. Dungeons are very linear in WoW.

    Now imagine the headache of making a script for;

    Inferno pack of champions. Out of the huge pool of affixes, which 4 is chosen, and how to fight each combination. Add in the surrounding environment (outside and open? Or inside and narrow), and add in just what TYPE of monster spawned (and what their native abilites are).

    Are they vampiric? Now you HAVE to not let them hit you. What to do when a Waller traps you and then teleports ontop of you? It's going to be soooo nuts =) I predict you'll have to make a small achievement in the field of AI to make a bot able of beating any inferno combo =D
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #53
    Quote from Thesecondone

    Three things.

    1. A ladder reset does NOT delete ur gear.

    2. If blizzard isnt lying beyond understanding i dont see bots being able to do inferno or maybe even hell.

    3.Could the people stating the market will get flooded in months please list time spent farming in d2 and how many of the best items they have found. If they cant than stop making assumptions based on nothing.


    1-It doesn't delete your gear now, but with two "worlds" your character exsits in, in a new ladder environment those items couldn't and wouldn't make it to the ah.
    2-That, i really hope holds true and it's not just a PR thing they keep saying.
    3-I have farmed d2 quite a bit, and found most of the super unique items legit. However, I did also bot as well, and I got nearly every super unique with perfect stats at one point or another. As someone mentioned earlier, eventually items start to become worthless to you and you throw them to people in public games. I think at one point i had 3 mule accounts for my items, which goes without saying i only kept the top tier stuff.
  • #54
    The replayability, for me at least, will come from playing Inferno (if it actually turns out to be everything the devs promised), and trying out all 5 classes (I find them all interesting), and when PvP launches (hopefully in early August) I'll play PvP until I'm bored :P

    Almost forgot about hardcore, when everything's said and done I might try it for the extra "rush". It's like a personall ladder reset (if you screw up, you have to start over).
  • #55
    the biggest issue i had with d2 were ladder resets. im really really happy they wont make a come back.

    as going for the op post - i didnt read it. you know, sometimes a wall of text is just too much.

    about longevity of diablo 3 - i assume drop rates will be lower then in d2 so if i didnt drop windforce in my 6 years experience with d2 i should be fine with d3 , am i thinking right ?
  • #56
    its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2
  • #57
    Quote from prodiii

    the biggest issue i had with d2 were ladder resets. im really really happy they wont make a come back.

    as going for the op post - i didnt read it. you know, sometimes a wall of text is just too much.

    about longevity of diablo 3 - i assume drop rates will be lower then in d2 so if i didnt drop windforce in my 6 years experience with d2 i should be fine with d3 , am i thinking right ?


    Why was that your biggest issue since you could continue playing non-ladder and experience the economy as it would be without ladder resets there, i.e. people dumping enigmas on the ground because they had too many of them.


    Quote from nemesis2252

    its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2


    Why? D2 had skill trees and manual stat distribution but there was only one "right" way to distribute these points. You think that's good replayability? Level cap is totally irrelevant if the flow of the game is right. There are swappable skills, in fact a lot more to choose from since in D2 you would only put points in a couple of skills so there was nothing to swap really. And why won't there be individual MF runs?
    ☆ ✮ ✯
  • #58
    Quote from Beechsack

    Quote from lorien1973

    Quote from Beechsack

    If your economy analysis includes the words 'might' or 'probably', you're doing it wrong.

    If any economist isn't using the words "might" and "probably", they are lying to you.


    An actual economist has data to base future predictions from.

    Nobody has such data for D3 .

    Hence using the word probably would be very wise? No?

    Even with data, economics is in no way a certainty. There are way too many factors, many very much unpredictable to make any solid factual statements.

    For instance the US gives companies a loan to manufacture and solar panels.
    Good idea at the time.
    China then retaliates by giving their companies a GRANT for 10 times that amount to manufacture solar panels.
    US companies obviously can't compete and fail.
    Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
    "Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
  • #59
    Quote from nemesis2252

    its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2


    Please don't bring up that whole this isn't Dibalo 2.5 discussion which has plenty other threads (54345345645 to be exact) bashing this silly concept, off topic move on.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #60
    Quote from Pryda

    Quote from nemesis2252

    its already going to suffer with a level cap, no skill trees/non-swappable skills, no user stat-distibutioin, and no individual MF runs. dont get me wrong, i love diablo and i bought the CE of d3 and i will love it. but the replayability will be NOTHING that of diablo 2


    Why? D2 had skill trees and manual stat distribution but there was only one "right" way to distribute these points. You think that's good replayability?


    im not saying using diablo2's stat system. using something for user-distrubted points that each has an actual benefit worth putting points in. survivability, damage, maybe a MF/GF stat.... i dont have it all mapped out, but have something that allows the user to pick which direction he wants to make his character.

    as for skill trees, i was refering to different types of builds. a sorceress maybe you wanted each of the 3 tress, fire, cold, and lightning. so you had to make and level 3 different sorceresses.

    with the current system you only ever have to make ONE wizard with no need to ever make another. when you get top-notch gear, hit level 60, the only thing left is pvp. in d2 you could always make another character and experiment with fun builds, you could hunt for lvl 99, you could MF.... there was almost always something you could do. i dont see diablo 3 having the same replayability
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