Why RMAH buyers bother you ?

  • #22
    Quote from Gryzorz
    Maybe, but how is that breaking YOUR immersion ?
    Please develop that part, I don't understand why those people prevent you from enjoying the way you like to play your game.


    - I'm not sure how I could explain it more clearly. Diablo 3 is based on the world of Sanctuary, where the currency is gold. Not United States of America, where the currency is american dollar. It's similar kind of immersion breaker as NPCs instructing me to 'click the right mouse button'. There should be no reference what-so-ever to this real world for the game to maintain good integrity. What is an issue of real world should be dealt with there.
  • #23
    Quote from Adon

    Quote from Yellr

    Quote from Adon

    Quote from pskfry

    Quote from abu11

    My problem with RMAH is that it breaks the immersion of game. Where in the world of blacksmiths, swords and magic does american dollars fit in? Goals that were designed to be accomplished by playing the game are now just 'given' to highest bidder. You can have a full decked out character at level 60 without even trying out the Inferno difficulty.


    Yes, and they bought those items from people who earned them. So in the end, the people who earned the items get the most benefit. What do you care if there's some jerk running around in other games with high end gear but no skills? You will probably never see this person.

    Haha I like this. "No skills", Diablo takes no skills to play PvM. Anyone who buys gear to PvM also is oblivious and lost.


    You really cannot say this when we haven't seen Inferno at all.

    You are correct, however I have played Diablo 1 and 2 and 3 and well they all play the same. So I am going to go off and say well inferno is going to play by the same rules as well, which are very simple and easy to conquer rules. With right skills and strategy and decent gear it will be beaten. Sure better gear will make it easier, but it is definitely not impossible without great-godly gear. So thus RMAH is kinda pointless in PvM unless you don't want to waste any time MFing and rushed to inferno, and also care about how good you are at killing AI monsters...which do you? I mean you either kill them or you don't, in the end buying gear or not the result is the same.


    Yes but getting the right strat and skills and completing the game def does take skill. As for do i care about killing AI monsters, yea i do otherwise i wouldn't play the game. If Inferno is as hard as i hope it is I'll be damn proud to finish Inferno. Good post though.
  • #24
    Quote from Gryzorz

    I think this behaviour is only observed on people who have a lot of free time to play, because they want to convert the one thing they have over others (free time) into fame/pride/achievement.

    To me, there is no objective argument that would explain such a thing, since buying from RMAH implies spending time at work to obtain stuff, wich is the same as spending time at killing monsters to obtain stuff : you dedicate time to your building character.


    Now I don't like th RMAH, but I'm also not picketting against it anywhere. It will be in the game, I will still buy my collectors ed, life will go on. However this statement is such a narrow view. All work isn't valued equally. It used to be that when two people played a game, they started equal, and advanced equally. Now you throw real money in as an advancement method. Now because person A makes $10 an hour and person B makes $30 dollars an hour all other things in their life being equal person A) not only has to feel inferior in real life, but also inferior in their video games. THAT is the problem people have with it. Its not like person A can just go to work and work harder and catch up with person B. Even if they worked twice as long, they still wouldn't have the free money to spend for the same mount of work.
  • #25
    RMAH buyers don't bother me. RMAH does.

    Quote from abu11

    - I'm not sure how I could explain it more clearly. Diablo 3 is based on the world of Sanctuary, where the currency is gold. Not United States of America, where the currency is american dollar. It's similar kind of immersion breaker as NPCs instructing me to 'click the right mouse button'. There should be no reference what-so-ever to this real world for the game to maintain good integrity. What is an issue of real world should be dealt with there.

    Also this.
  • #26
    I don't mind the RMAH but I do have one concern.


    IMO, the best part of D2 was the coop. I could always get in with a group of talented gamers and we would work our way to defeating the Lord of Destruction. The one thing I noticed however, was how generous people were. I was always surprised at how often someone in my group (people I didn't know) would ask if a needed a better piece of gear or if I needed helped lvling my character up, and they would help me out for no reason at all.


    Fast forward to D3, if a person has an item that is good but their hero cannot use it, they are going to be less likely to give it away. Why? Because there is a very convenient way to turn that item into real money. I know that D2 had its 3rd part sites for selling (and ebay for that matter), but it was a pain to go though the process to sell something that could be worth as little as $5 and then have to set up a time to trade it in game. Now, in D3, you can just throw it up there and have an extra 5 bucks in your wallet.


    My only fear is that, when playing with a group of avid fans, the level of camaraderie will be lost because less people are going to selflessly give away decent gear and help others out. I hope not. In D2 I really felt like I was part of a team.
  • #27
    Quote from abu11

    My problem with RMAH is that it breaks the immersion of game. Where in the world of blacksmiths, swords and magic does american dollars fit in? Goals that were designed to be accomplished by playing the game are now just 'given' to highest bidder. You can have a full decked out character at level 60 without even trying out the Inferno difficulty.


    Any game, ANY GAME that is popular and has gear, there is ALWAYS a way for someone to PAY for gear. Get used to it, it's been happening since d2 (maybe before) it will happen until the day you die, or devs stop making games that gear is an issue for.

    You can always buy power, welcome to the world, enjoy your stay.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    shall be my brother..."
  • #28
    Quote from Mac_an_tSaoir

    Quote from abu11

    My problem with RMAH is that it breaks the immersion of game. Where in the world of blacksmiths, swords and magic does american dollars fit in? Goals that were designed to be accomplished by playing the game are now just 'given' to highest bidder. You can have a full decked out character at level 60 without even trying out the Inferno difficulty.


    Any game, ANY GAME that is popular and has gear, there is ALWAYS a way for someone to PAY for gear. Get used to it, it's been happening since d2 (maybe before) it will happen until the day you die, or devs stop making games that gear is an issue for.

    You can always buy power, welcome to the world, enjoy your stay.

    The difference is that in games without RMAH, the developer can fight such a black market, by banning those who sell and buy. Sure they can never stop it from happening, but they can keep trying.
  • #29
    Quote from BANT4M

    I don't mind the RMAH but I do have one concern.


    IMO, the best part of D2 was the coop. I could always get in with a group of talented gamers and we would work our way to defeating the Lord of Destruction. The one thing I noticed however, was how generous people were. I was always surprised at how often someone in my group (people I didn't know) would ask if a needed a better piece of gear or if I needed helped lvling my character up, and they would help me out for no reason at all.


    Fast forward to D3, if a person has an item that is good but their hero cannot use it, they are going to be less likely to give it away. Why? Because there is a very convenient way to turn that item into real money. I know that D2 had its 3rd part sites for selling (and ebay for that matter), but it was a pain to go though the process to sell something that could be worth as little as $5 and then have to set up a time to trade it in game. Now, in D3, you can just throw it up there and have an extra 5 bucks in your wallet.


    My only fear is that, when playing with a group of avid fans, the level of camaraderie will be lost because less people are going to selflessly give away decent gear and help others out. I hope not. In D2 I really felt like I was part of a team.


    With random people yes you are correct. But me and my friends all have a agreement, as long as the item isn't worth over $150 were more than happy to give it to each other. I made lots of good relationships in D2 and I'm sure I'll make a lot of new ones as well that I'll be more than happy to give stuff too. But yes random people you are right :(
  • #30
    Quote from Shadout

    RMAH buyers don't bother me. RMAH does.

    Why does it bother you? With D2 we already know that if Blizzard does not introduce this feature countless other illegal sites will fill the gap.

    How is this different from trading items using SoJ's in D2 or buying the items from an illegal web site. In a more extreme example, finding equipment for your alt's is just as bad as buying stuff on the RMAH if you go down the not knowing how to play your class argument.

    All Blizzard has done here is prevent their user base from being scammed by potentially harmful websites. Will they make some money in the process? Sure, but only if the game is good enough that people want to spend money.
  • #31
    Quote from Yellr

    Quote from BANT4M

    I don't mind the RMAH but I do have one concern.


    IMO, the best part of D2 was the coop. I could always get in with a group of talented gamers and we would work our way to defeating the Lord of Destruction. The one thing I noticed however, was how generous people were. I was always surprised at how often someone in my group (people I didn't know) would ask if a needed a better piece of gear or if I needed helped lvling my character up, and they would help me out for no reason at all.


    Fast forward to D3, if a person has an item that is good but their hero cannot use it, they are going to be less likely to give it away. Why? Because there is a very convenient way to turn that item into real money. I know that D2 had its 3rd part sites for selling (and ebay for that matter), but it was a pain to go though the process to sell something that could be worth as little as $5 and then have to set up a time to trade it in game. Now, in D3, you can just throw it up there and have an extra 5 bucks in your wallet.


    My only fear is that, when playing with a group of avid fans, the level of camaraderie will be lost because less people are going to selflessly give away decent gear and help others out. I hope not. In D2 I really felt like I was part of a team.


    With random people yes you are correct. But me and my friends all have a agreement, as long as the item isn't worth over $150 were more than happy to give it to each other. I made lots of good relationships in D2 and I'm sure I'll make a lot of new ones as well that I'll be more than happy to give stuff too. But yes random people you are right :(

    Hm surprised I didn't think of this. Ill definitely be just throwing up random junk at odd prices and just forget about it. Everything has a value and ill just low ball it because I would just sell it for gold anyway.
  • #32
    Quote from emyln

    Quote from Shadout

    RMAH buyers don't bother me. RMAH does.

    Why does it bother you? With D2 we already know that if Blizzard does not introduce this feature countless other illegal sites will fill the gap.

    How is this different from trading items using SoJ's in D2 or buying the items from an illegal web site. In a more extreme example, finding equipment for your alt's is just as bad as buying stuff on the RMAH if you go down the not knowing how to play your class argument.

    All Blizzard has done here is prevent their user base from being scammed by potentially harmful websites. Will they make some money in the process? Sure, but only if the game is good enough that people want to spend money.


    This plus instead of some random chinese farmer making money its probably someone who actually enjoys the game.
  • #33
    Quote from emyln

    Why does it bother you? With D2 we already know that if Blizzard does not introduce this feature countless other illegal sites will fill the gap.

    How is this different from trading items using SoJ's in D2 or buying the items from an illegal web site. In a more extreme example, finding equipment for your alt's is just as bad as buying stuff on the RMAH if you go down the not knowing how to play your class argument.

    All Blizzard has done here is prevent their user base from being scammed by potentially harmful websites. Will they make some money in the process? Sure, but only if the game is good enough that people want to spend money.

    Because if it was like D2 Blizzard could try to take down the sites who sold items, and sometimes even ban sellers and buyers.

    I don't mind Blizzard making some money though, that is probably the only good thing I can see from all this (although it directly relates to something which is not good: Blizzard having economic incentives to adjust droprates to increase their income).
  • #34
    People that choose not to like RMAH bother me
    "Just quit and wait for GW2"
  • #35
    Quote from abu11

    My problem with RMAH is that it breaks the immersion of game. Where in the world of blacksmiths, swords and magic does american dollars fit in? Goals that were designed to be accomplished by playing the game are now just 'given' to highest bidder. You can have a full decked out character at level 60 without even trying out the Inferno difficulty.


    You'd be stupid to think that without the RMAH there wouldn't be any items getting sold, there would be hundreds of third partys websites selling+scamming. You could have a fully decked out character as soon as you met the gear requirements in Diablo 2 due to the fact you could farm on your main.
  • #36
    Quote from Zen_like

    Quote from abu11

    My problem with RMAH is that it breaks the immersion of game. Where in the world of blacksmiths, swords and magic does american dollars fit in? Goals that were designed to be accomplished by playing the game are now just 'given' to highest bidder. You can have a full decked out character at level 60 without even trying out the Inferno difficulty.


    You'd be stupid to think that without the RMAH there wouldn't be any items getting sold, there would be hundreds of third partys websites selling+scamming. You could have a fully decked out character as soon as you met the gear requirements in Diablo 2 due to the fact you could farm on your main.

    You did not understand, what he was saying. He says, that the appearance of $ ingame breaks the immersion for him.

    To the topic in general:
    I have to agree to BANT4M. His thought is the only thought, that bothers me too, since they've announced the RMAH. I found a Windforce I could not use, cause I had no amazon, so I gave it to a friend or gave it to a player in the game, where we found it. Sometimes I gave items to unknown people for the sole fact, because I knew they would be happy about a gift. With RMAH I think, that it won't happen as often as it did in D2.
    I won't bother if people use the RMAH or not, I would not bother, if somebody got better gear than me, even though he bought all of his stuff, but I would care, if the RMAH has a negative impact on the social attitude of the community, because beside the botting and hacking community in D2, the community was far superior to any online game I've played. In this case community means the general community, not the friends you've got in the game.
  • #37
    As long as gamers perceive that there's enough value to justify the purchase of digital goods, services will exist to facilitate those transactions. Choosing to legitimize the practice in Diablo III is a double-edged sword for Blizzard. On the plus side, those interested in using the RMAH will have an avenue other than dubious third-parties. As others have mentioned, however, it breaks the fourth wall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall) by including US Dollars as a currency available in-game. There are numerous other implications and effects that come with the RMAH, but I don't think we have enough information at this point to see the big picture. I for one am quite curious to see if the RMAH decreases in-game spam and third-party item sales as much as others have speculated.

    It will also be interesting to see if people are willing to only sell on the RMAH. Most Diablo II players I knew were always trying to make deals to get better items, not money. Perhaps the reality of the currency will make a difference, though.
  • #38
    Because to put it simply and harshly, it's cheating (albeit officially blizzard endorsed cheating this time).

    When you buy items using real money, you are bascially trading real money for an in-game advantage - i.e. paying money to cheat (in fairness, cheating in a limited way, because as people like to point out, someone has to be selling the item).

    I think everyone will agree that for single player games this is no problem. When it comes to an online competitive game though, then there is a problem.

    Gaming should be about skill and/or time you put into a game and not what job you have or how much you can afford.

    If you can't get the items that you want, then you simply need to play more...rare items are rare for a reason, and sometimes you can't have everything you want.

    For people short on time, that's a shame. So am I. But that doesn't mean you are entitled to buy your way to progress. I rather like Lenox66's steroid analogy on the first page.
  • #39
    Quote from Gryzorz

    Hi,
    It seems that quite a lot of people value free time to the extreme, to the point that they would like to know if a player has items that come from RMAH.

    By putting flags on those items/players, you want want people to know that all your stuff is from lucky-drops, so you can brag around claiming that you really earned what you wear.

    I think this behaviour is only observed on people who have a lot of free time to play, because they want to convert the one thing they have over others (free time) into fame/pride/achievement.

    To me, there is no objective argument that would explain such a thing, since buying from RMAH implies spending time at work to obtain stuff, wich is the same as spending time at killing monsters to obtain stuff : you dedicate time to your building character.

    In my opinion, the only reason to back up this logic is that people with free time want to dominate the stuff competition by valuing the one thing they have over others : free time, but hide behind "really deserve" arguments. (which is fallacious since working to obtain something also make you "deserve" it the same way).

    This is my current understanding of the situation.
    If you recognize your profile but think it's wrong, please correct me & explain where I'm wrong (I'm an insatiable "understanding people" bitch ^^).


    Games take (varying levels of) skill... People who work and buy gear don't spend the time practicing that skill... And you know how 'elite' communities like to prey on the un-skilled, or claim that everyone is a noob, etc...

    Personally, I'm going to put in 10,000 hours into the game, in the first month, and then buy all the best gear, and rock the charts...

    -Alamar
  • #40
    Quote from nematic

    Because to put it simply and harshly, it's cheating (albeit officially blizzard endorsed cheating this time).

    When you buy items using real money, you are bascially trading real money for an in-game advantage - i.e. paying money to cheat (in fairness, cheating in a limited way, because as people like to point out, someone has to be selling the item).

    I think everyone will agree that for single player games this is no problem. When it comes to an online competitive game though, then there is a problem.

    Gaming should be about skill and/or time you put into a game and not what job you have or how much you can afford.

    If you can't get the items that you want, then you simply need to play more...rare items are rare for a reason, and sometimes you can't have everything you want.

    For people short on time, that's a shame. So am I. But that doesn't mean you are entitled to buy your way to progress. I rather like Lenox66's steroid analogy on the first page.


    And there's your problem right there. This is NOT a competitive game. The only inkling would be the arena, which doesn't show rank and there are no rewards (besides maybe some achievements.) The rest, and the majority of the game is either single player or co-op, with everyone working towards the same goal. There are no mods (thank god) so things like a DPS meter if made won't exist for long, therefore there aren't any epeen ragers.

    People who are adamantly against the RMAH have one thing in common; Their pride gets hurt. Even though it in NO WAY harms other players when someone gets a cool item, they still for some reason get mad. What difference does it make whether I farmed for hours on end and found said item, or I traded another item for it, or I traded gold, or I traded real money. I'll still have the item.


    Edit; Oh and guess what. You WON'T find every item you want, not in a decade. I've quoted it a million times, but the rarest and best items in D2 should have only been found by a couple people in the entire world over the coarse of D2's life. And Blizzard has stated this is the rarity they want for the best items in D3. Obviously hacks and dupes ruined it for D2. But for D3, you are GOING to have to trade to get everything you want.

    Final point; If you take out the RMAH, then third party sites are going to host it, and nothing will happen save for Blizzard not making as much money.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #41
    Quote from BleuSnaks42

    And there's your problem right there. This is NOT a competitive game. The only inkling would be the arena, which doesn't show rank and there are no rewards (besides maybe some achievements.) The rest, and the majority of the game is either single player or co-op, with everyone working towards the same goal. There are no mods (thank god) so things like a DPS meter if made won't exist for long, therefore there aren't any epeen ragers.


    And there's your problem right there. Thinking this is NOT a competitive game because it is SP and Coop... Last I heard, the Coop portion of WoW, for example, was pretty competitive : )

    Anecdotally... Every game has competition, whether you play with others directly or not : )

    -Alamar
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