Moving character with keyboard (WASD or Arrow Keys)

  • #43
    Quote from maka

    For people asking for controller support: I have serious doubts that you have ever played a Diablo game. A controller would work horribly, very bad to accurately aim (why do you think consoles use aim-assist in FPS's?).

    Quote from vastv

    I was just testing this some more on a caster (again in Mythos) and I found it REALLY nice to be able to move away from the mobs while keeping my focus on them and spamming fireballs. The character stops during the cast, but it's still nice not to have to move the mouse across the screen to click where I want the character to run then move back to target the mob. The mob is always targeted no matter the direction I move. It's really puzzling how anyone could argue with this system, especially if was added an an option to the controls.

    This is exactly why this game can't go WASD. Choosing to either move or attack is a strategic choice the game forces you to make; if you can move AND attack, that's one less thing you have to think about. You might see that as a good thing, but I think it makes the game shallower.


    You also failed to read the part where I mentioned my character stops every time he has to cast a spell. There was no movement during casting, the only difference between using WASD and using the mouse the entire time is I didn't have to move my mouse across the entire screen back and forth to do a simple move in the opposite direction from the mob. So what you're saying is completely obvious, allowing to move and cast at the same time would turn Diablo 3 into Smash TV, I fully realize that and this has already been though of by the ex-Diablo 2 developers who created Mythos.
  • #44
    I would argue that the fact that you have to move your mouse all around the screen if you want to kite is what makes it an interesting choice. Moving with WASD and aiming at the same time makes it a non-choice.
  • #45
    Only thing you need to know. Dev team said it wont happen period.

    Quote from KageKaze

    Quote from Senchean

    I'll give you that I used the wrong word, it is Moot. But the second definition of Moot is: of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic. So yes, it does mean what I think it means. They are not going to change it so the discussion is moot, or pointless.


    Granted. But why is it pointless? Just because a feature doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't exist in the future. They have already talked about making the game for consoles which would use a similar control scheme and community feedback and requests have made blizzard consider changes before. Hardly makes discussing it pointless.

    If you don't like the conversation, don't contribute or don't bother reading it. No one is forcing you to read it or like it.


    The fact that it would work well on consoles has NOTHING to do with if it would feel good as WASD. Console joysticks have more then a 4 direction range of movement making it feel more fluid. That doesnt mean that limiting it to combinations of 4 direction buttons would feel as good.
  • #47
    you know what, let it be sub-optimal and let it break in combat so we can't run and gun. If for the sole purpose that I don't have to click to go around town all the time or to the next through a large area I just cleared while giving my mouse hand a rest is great.

    If there is one thing Blizzard is known for is actually implementing small changes to their interface (in this case it would be movement) if it just improves Quality of Life in the game. I don't see this entering at launch nor do I think it should be a completely viable alternative as maka has brought up the biggest point on why wsda and combat should be separated (and it wasnt wah wah thats how it is). Lets face it this game can and has changed on us quickly (cough weapon %, RUNES, etc...) that we cant say this is what the devs say is sacred and will never change.

    A lot of these topic come up but i think this is the first i've read that doesn't ask for equivalent control via wsda but just an option. Heck even if its just to take 3 steps forward while picking up all the junk that drops would be great.

    Also to the topic of "feel as good". That is entirely subjective. I personally hate controller set ups and like the mouse in this game but I am not close-minded enough to say that it doesn't have its merits.
  • #48
    Quote from misiceman

    you know what, let it be sub-optimal and let it break in combat so we can't run and gun. If for the sole purpose that I don't have to click to go around town all the time or to the next through a large area I just cleared while giving my mouse hand a rest is great.


    The reason why the devs did not put it in. They did not want an inferior mechanic in the game and in this case wasd is inferior. In Diablo, one wrong move can kill you.
  • #49
    Good lord is this discussion still going... The movement in Diablo games has always been with the mouse, WASD would be too static a movement method. Besides, what would the mouse be used for...?
  • #50
    I read the first page and cringed at the responses, I feel sorry OP; you actually asked the question very elegantly and just got the usual hissy-fit responses (from both sides).

    I think the problem is the same as ever, people don't like change. It's that simple to be honest. If something isn't broke, don't fix it etc. It's that logic that carries over.

    With the examples given on the front page (such as slavery) there was clearly something broken about the method, that's why changes were needed to be made; but people feel (rightly or wrongly) that Diablo controls a certain way and should remain as such.

    The other thing is that no matter how hard you try, one method will always offer an advantage over the other, an example being look at WoW. The best players used hotkeys and clicked skills at the same time. Those that only did one or the other were generally a bit behind those that did both (be it a couple of 100 or a couple of 1000); so I think people wouldn't like to feel like they are worse off because they are stuck in a traditional control mindset.

    Where as a newer player is able to utilize the new method and be more effective for it (such as aiming and moving as you stated). Again, I am not saying this is a good reason, but it is probably one of the main reasons why people react so badly toward the suggestion.

    You just lost

    THE GAME!!!
  • #51
    These are irreplaceable mechanics that make D3!
    "Just quit and wait for GW2"
  • #52
    Quote from Leeodin

    I read the first page and cringed at the responses, I feel sorry OP; you actually asked the question very elegantly and just got the usual hissy-fit responses (from both sides).

    I think the problem is the same as ever, people don't like change. It's that simple to be honest. If something isn't broke, don't fix it etc. It's that logic that carries over.

    With the examples given on the front page (such as slavery) there was clearly something broken about the method, that's why changes were needed to be made; but people feel (rightly or wrongly) that Diablo controls a certain way and should remain as such.

    The other thing is that no matter how hard you try, one method will always offer an advantage over the other, an example being look at WoW. The best players used hotkeys and clicked skills at the same time. Those that only did one or the other were generally a bit behind those that did both (be it a couple of 100 or a couple of 1000); so I think people wouldn't like to feel like they are worse off because they are stuck in a traditional control mindset.

    Where as a newer player is able to utilize the new method and be more effective for it (such as aiming and moving as you stated). Again, I am not saying this is a good reason, but it is probably one of the main reasons why people react so badly toward the suggestion.


    Rep to you, well stated.

    I think the problem is that Diablo Fans are all very passionate about their game, I know I am. When people are passionate about something, then you get strong emotions regarding changes to what people feel is the "essence" of the game. I think this is why every change Blizzard has made has been met with large amounts of both praise and criticism. Thankfully, everyone seems to feel mostly favorable about where the game is going.
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
    Come on by and comment on YouTube or chat on Twitch, twitch chat is often watched
  • #53
    Why will they add wasd control if mouse is 10 times more accurate
    Quote from Burzghash

    Regardless, there's no good reason for forcing permanence on people..
  • #54
    Quote from KageKaze

    Quote from Leeodin

    I read the first page and cringed at the responses, I feel sorry OP; you actually asked the question very elegantly and just got the usual hissy-fit responses (from both sides).

    I think the problem is the same as ever, people don't like change. It's that simple to be honest. If something isn't broke, don't fix it etc. It's that logic that carries over.

    With the examples given on the front page (such as slavery) there was clearly something broken about the method, that's why changes were needed to be made; but people feel (rightly or wrongly) that Diablo controls a certain way and should remain as such.

    The other thing is that no matter how hard you try, one method will always offer an advantage over the other, an example being look at WoW. The best players used hotkeys and clicked skills at the same time. Those that only did one or the other were generally a bit behind those that did both (be it a couple of 100 or a couple of 1000); so I think people wouldn't like to feel like they are worse off because they are stuck in a traditional control mindset.

    Where as a newer player is able to utilize the new method and be more effective for it (such as aiming and moving as you stated). Again, I am not saying this is a good reason, but it is probably one of the main reasons why people react so badly toward the suggestion.


    Rep to you, well stated.

    I think the problem is that Diablo Fans are all very passionate about their game, I know I am. When people are passionate about something, then you get strong emotions regarding changes to what people feel is the "essence" of the game. I think this is why every change Blizzard has made has been met with large amounts of both praise and criticism. Thankfully, everyone seems to feel mostly favorable about where the game is going.


    I've stated before that letting people use WSAD would give us an edge which would make a game more simple. Avoidance of mobs' spells would be much more easy with that. They would have to rebalance everything and change mobs AI. It won't happen. On consoles you may be able to have it but you will loose possibility to aim as well as with mouse so cons and pros will probably balance itself. And anyway console version may be easier to play than PC one as it is for consoles and it would be nothing wrong with it being more easy there.
  • #55
    I didn't really feel like reading through a gazillion replies saying "this can't be done", so I'm just going to assume that's what they all said.

    I'm not at all in favor of this being implemented, for the simple reason that it'll make the casters amazingly overpowered. I've played a lot of shooter games on those free browser games sites, many of which use the camera similar to the diablo series, where you sort of look down on your character from afar. You'll run around using WASD while aiming and shooting with your mouse, giving you incredibly precise movement. And using 1234 while also using WASD isn't a problem at all. In those browser games it's not uncommon to have special abilities on additional keys.. and most of you played WoW where you use 500 different skills at once, so using 8 or 10 shouldn't be a problem.

    Anyway, as I see it it'll give the casters a HUGE advantage. With this system implemented it makes it incredibly easy to move around and maneuvre - trust me. Anyone who's ever played such ames will agree. This in turn means that its incredibly easy to dodge, unless of course you're a melee character who has to get in close to deliver any damage. The ranged ones don't, so they get all the benefits while receiving none of the drawbacks. I also see this tipping the scales of PvP, even more than it already is, so that's something to consider after all as well.

    So yeah, while it definitely COULD be implemented I really don't think that they should.
    Image removed due to its file extension: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39239.0;attach=26376;image

    last.fm
  • #56
    Zanmato, this is where you maybe should have read through the posts :P

    The OP made the point that WSAD movement would only be used out of combat and that mouse-movement would be the only way to move in-combat. Making you make a choice between movement and attack.

    So that kinda renders your whole OP-caster point kinda moot :D
  • #57
    Quote from Leeodin

    The other thing is that no matter how hard you try, one method will always offer an advantage over the other, an example being look at WoW. The best players used hotkeys and clicked skills at the same time. Those that only did one or the other were generally a bit behind those that did both (be it a couple of 100 or a couple of 1000); so I think people wouldn't like to feel like they are worse off because they are stuck in a traditional control mindset.

    Where as a newer player is able to utilize the new method and be more effective for it (such as aiming and moving as you stated). Again, I am not saying this is a good reason, but it is probably one of the main reasons why people react so badly toward the suggestion.


    I agree with that, so I'm just going to hope it might be a feature they push out much later as an update or part of the next expansion. People who said it will never happen simply don't have any grounds to say so. Just look at how much the Beta has changed, absolutely massive changes that go against everything they said last year (rune system, inferno flat difficulty of every mob level 61, etc). Adding some movement hot keys, especially since they have to migrate towards this for the consoles anyway is not a huge change to the gameplay.
  • #58
    if they implemented a good wasd system it would be okay .. I don't mind change, If I wanted the same game I would just play that game instead ..

    However, a wasd system, to me, just seems more fit for a game that has a movable camera and is not beeing locked into a set angle...
    Taking Sacred 2 as an example, here you got the mouse AND wasd at the same time, it works quite well in this game, but only because you can change the direction/angle of the camera..
    Games with a set angle, like diablo and titan quest feel better with the mouse only .. And if people get tired in their clicking finger they could have a small break from the game :P or stop clicking and start dragging the mouse instead..

    I'm an old diablo fan, I really enjoy everything about it, yet I don't mind change ..
  • #59
    Quote from NullerGnuen

    And if people get tired in their clicking finger they could have a small break from the game :P or stop clicking and start dragging the mouse instead..

    Wise words. If after three hours of playing D3 your hand feels a bit tired, take a break. It'll be good for you.
  • #60
    I really dont understand the arguments about your mouse hand getting tired. Like the previous poster said, learn to drag the mouse and not click. And when you attack dont individually click each enemy, hold shift and click once then aim. Not really that hard...
  • #61
    Yeah, Wii version too.
    [Real Money Auction House] DISGUSTING ITEM!
    - 1 to all skills
  • #62
    Quote from zerObit

    Zanmato, this is where you maybe should have read through the posts :P

    The OP made the point that WSAD movement would only be used out of combat and that mouse-movement would be the only way to move in-combat. Making you make a choice between movement and attack.


    The problem with that, is that Diablo games don't have out of combat. It's the main reason they were messing around with the skill locking mechanic. The devs have said at Blizzcon 2010 and 2011, that if WASD was as solid of a mechanic as the mouse, it would have been in the game.
  • #63
    Quote from rozmata

    I've stated before that letting people use WSAD would give us an edge which would make a game more simple. Avoidance of mobs' spells would be much more easy with that. They would have to rebalance everything and change mobs AI. It won't happen. On consoles you may be able to have it but you will loose possibility to aim as well as with mouse so cons and pros will probably balance itself. And anyway console version may be easier to play than PC one as it is for consoles and it would be nothing wrong with it being more easy there.


    Your argument is very valid, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you might think regarding monster AI or even as some have argued in PvP. Any good Starcraft player knows that movement like this can be made by simple micromanagement. Click to move, click to attack, click to move. Fast mouse movements and precise clicking can be just as lethal.

    The only thing that would really be needed to make it happen is mapping movement to the 4 directions which has been proven to work in many different games. At that point it comes down to how the game play would possibly change.

    Even if you could move with an arrow key and still click on an enemy, you would still have to stop and perform your spell animation. The time it takes for this to happen would be the same if I clicked on a movement destination, quickly clicked on a monster, then back to my final destination. As long as the same rules apply for movement when a skill is activated, it wouldn't really matter if it was with a mouse or a keyboard/joystick.

    The game already compensates for lag and melee hits can actually reach over what looks like a large gap in distance, as long as the game agrees you were roughly where you needed to be to strike. Additionally, melee classes have movement skills like sprint, leap, and dashing strike which will help close these gaps.

    So I suppose, if you could see that the movement isn't a problem (assuming a perfect world, no bugs and no reasonable difference between movement styles could be detected) would the argument be that it takes away skill from the game? Fast mouse movers and clickers can easily show an advantage against those that do not. Maybe this could be something that helps even out a battlefield that lets those that might not click as fast be able to employ tactics and strategy without having to worry about moving their pointer all across the screen. I present this as food for thought.

    My thoughts:
    Do I think it would offset the game too much?
    No, not really, not if it's done right. It's not about being able to "move and shoot" like Alien Swarm, it's just another movement type.
    Do I think they'll do something like this?
    No, not really. They've talked about exploring, but Blizzard does see this interface as being one of the systems that makes Diablo different and unique.
    Do I think they should?
    Should? Nah, Diablo is a great game either way, but it would be kind of cool if they would.
    Final thoughts?
    I think Blizzard knows how passionate everyone here is. They're going to do right by the game and make sure that no matter what systems they change, add, or remove that they do it with just cause and for making the game fun. I've enjoyed seeing this debate play out, even if some arguments are anger fueled, many are still well thought out. I think it's good to consider the pros and cons of things like this as it's these kinds of debates that also help Blizzard to decide what to do with the next game or expansion pack.

    Game on, DiabloFans! :Thumbs Up:
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
    Come on by and comment on YouTube or chat on Twitch, twitch chat is often watched
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes