Is lvl 61 mob any tough ?

  • #1
    I was just reading that Bashiok post about inferno difficulty and I was wondering. Will lvl 61 mob in inferno be any hard. Our lvl will be 60 and their 61. I understand later on when mobs are level 65 but 61. It is just one level higher. It's like 1/60 more difficult. Will there be any wall between hell and inferno difficulty other than that 1 level up?
  • #2
    think of it like this... ever played WoW?, fighting a mob that are 1 or more levels above you can be a pain. guess this is the feeling they are aiming for (but ofc versus more enemy's, and whit more action :) )

    also, when the enemy is higher level you might get reduced damage, dodge chance, crit chance and so on. it can really be a pain in the ass ^^
    Game Designer - Micro Design
  • #3
    Quote from rozmata

    I was just reading that Bashiok post about inferno difficulty and I was wondering. Will lvl 61 mob in inferno be any hard. Our lvl will be 60 and their 61. I understand later on when mobs are level 65 but 61. It is just one level higher. It's like 1/60 more difficult. Will there be any wall between hell and inferno difficulty other than that 1 level up?


    AI & affixes play a role as well... i.e. lvl 60 monster that has fast attack and extra strong combined with aggressive AI, lvl 61 monster (that much stronger) plus fast attack, extra strong, and reduce enemy attack speed aura and it also that much aggressive or smarter.

    Basic example but it should put it in perspective.

    EDIT: Plus what Nivius was referring too.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #4
    our resistances, armor, other sources of dmg reduction wont be as good as against lower levels and the more lvls above us the less we are going to be effective against them but the exact numbers aren't know afaik
  • #5
    lvl 61-63 mobs will be hard, 64-65 will be harder if it's anything like wow. Then factor in many will be elite or boss mobs. They will take longer to kill, move quicker, and hit harder. I'm guessing it will be quite different fighting mobs a few levels up in inferno compared to playing in a quest area a few levels up while progressing through the normal game.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #6
    Well from my experience most mobs in WoW were easy till they start to be like +3 lvl higher at least. I don't believe with AI efficiency much. All things like our lower resistance, etc are not really level dependent, these would just represent that wall I'm expecting if they add it. But Bashiok is talking about mobs lvl all the time and these does not scare me a bit from WoW experience. I didn't do hell in D2 but I heard from ppl on this forum that meeting first mobs on hell level was a wake up call. It was surely made by putting on some huge wall and not just adding +1 lvl to mobs. Anyway, I just hope that true inferno difficulty won't be just about mob level.
  • #7
    Quote from rozmata

    Well from my experience most mobs in WoW were easy till they start to be like +3 lvl higher at least. I don't believe with AI efficiency much. All things like our lower resistance, etc are not really level dependent, these would just represent that wall I'm expecting if they add it. But Bashiok is talking about mobs lvl all the time and these does not scare me a bit from WoW experience. I didn't do hell in D2 but I heard from ppl on this forum that meeting first mobs on hell level was a wake up call. It was surely made by putting on some huge wall and not just adding +1 lvl to mobs. Anyway, I just hope that true inferno difficulty won't be just about mob level.

    well the wow example i mentioned was more of an comparison. anyone here can sign the mention that 1 level of a mob in wow does make a difference, i never said it was hard to kill one that have a higher level then you, i said, the difference is noticeable

    a lvl 61 in Diablo will be allot harder as this is a faster game whit ALLOT smarter AI, its not some stand around and wack a SOMTHING. (also count in the fact of diffrance now from a normal mob in diablo 3 whit an elit one, its quite a jump even there... elites in inferno will be a pain! O.O LOVE IT :D)
    Game Designer - Micro Design
  • #8
    Quote from rozmata

    I was just reading that Bashiok post about inferno difficulty and I was wondering. Will lvl 61 mob in inferno be any hard. Our lvl will be 60 and their 61. I understand later on when mobs are level 65 but 61. It is just one level higher. It's like 1/60 more difficult. Will there be any wall between hell and inferno difficulty other than that 1 level up?


    uhhh...NO! 1 lvl above is not 1/60 more difficult,

    lvl 60 to 61 can be equal to lvl 1 to 50 in XP points...

    leveling is not linear -_-
  • #9
    If we're comparing it to WoW, then I have to say that fighting a monster one level above you isn't that big a deal. Two levels above might put a dent in your health, depending on your class. Three levels above is considered raid boss level, and requires a significant amount of +Hit (casters need 17% and melee needs 8% and 26 Expertise), which if you don't have makes even hitting the thing a pain.

    Anything higher than +3 is pretty impossible except for certain circumstances (like being a Hunter). You'll miss way too much to even kill it, even if your damage output would be able to kill something with that amount of health that was your own level.

    Now, Diablo doesn't have mechanics to make you miss (apart from moving out of the way), so monster difficulty is increased by other means like health, damage, and multiple affixes for champions and up.

    Anyway, I'd say that +1 level would pose a minor challenge in Normal mode. +5 would be a big challenge in Normal if it was a big pack. Given that Inferno is roughly a bazillion times harder (give or take a few mazillion) than Normal, it's safe to say that level 65 monsters in Inferno will absolutely destroy you if you aren't careful.

    And if you are careful they'll only destroy you slower.
  • #10
    Quote from rozmata

    Well from my experience most mobs in WoW were easy till they start to be like +3 lvl higher at least. I don't believe with AI efficiency much. All things like our lower resistance, etc are not really level dependent, these would just represent that wall I'm expecting if they add it. But Bashiok is talking about mobs lvl all the time and these does not scare me a bit from WoW experience. I didn't do hell in D2 but I heard from ppl on this forum that meeting first mobs on hell level was a wake up call. It was surely made by putting on some huge wall and not just adding +1 lvl to mobs. Anyway, I just hope that true inferno difficulty won't be just about mob level.


    lvl 65 mobs effectively bypass your armor and resistances due to armor comparing against target level, deal more damage, have more life, and are probably more likely to roll strong affixes
  • #11
    The level does not tell us anything! It all depends on the game algorithms, formulas and specific monster stats, which are unknown. They could make a lvl 50 monster that is harder to kill than a level 70 monster. This discussion is meaningless unless we know specific monster data and algorithms.
  • #12
    Quote from Kemosabe_TBC

    The level does not tell us anything! It all depends on the game algorithms, formulas and specific monster stats, which are unknown. They could make a lvl 50 monster that is harder to kill than a level 70 monster. This discussion is meaningless unless we know specific monster data and algorithms.


    I think it's safe to say your statement only applies if your comparing different monsters. I would think its VERY realistic to ASSUME that a level 60 Diablo will be stronger and have more abilities than a level 20 Diablo.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #13
    Yeah lvl 65 may be though, but 61, I still am not sure. Ofc, you all have a valid points but did any body at blizzard tried to explain why 61 will be so much tougher than lvl 60? I am not scared of grow in affixes from 3 to 4. Not that big of a change and it is only valid for elites as normal mobs do not have them. So I say if inferno is going to give us any sensible difficulty rise, then as popo_jo says mob level cannot be linear. I would expect that it should be more like:
    normal 1-30
    nightmare + artificial 2 lvls and then 31-50
    hell + artificial 2 lvls and then 51-60
    inferno + artificial 2 lvls and then 61+

    Otherwise, AI, affixes, those things won't be felt that much (3 vs 4, nehh)
  • #14
    There are numerous ways of increasing the difficulty of the mobs. The comparison with WoW was maybe not that good. As Aldrek said, some hit rating etc will make you hit the +3 lvl mob and it will die fairly easy. In diablo there is no hit/miss (debuffs not taken into account).

    I think we should think of a pretty big increase in damage output and health. Also faster movement or higher resistance and cc reduction might be used to make the mobs 'inferno worthy'.

    The comparison with D2 going from normal -> nightmare or from nightmare -> hell difficulty is somewhat better. In the last act of the previous difficulty you were getting the latest gear upgrades available (for that difficulty) and pretty much zerging through the content. Then you go to the new difficulty and you realize that the mobs are much stronger and you actually have to cast/hit multiple times before they die. This is because of 2 things, 1: the mobs are much stronger and 2: your gear is 'outdated'. By progressing you get the new difficulties gear (requires higher char lvl) and sooner or later hell will feel easy as well.

    Inferno on the other hand will never feel easy (maybe act 1/2), because the char lvl required by the items is 60 and always will be 60. They can't make items which require lvl 61, because we can't become lvl 61 (expansion?). If Blizz is careful with the stats and will not copy wow with that huge stat inflation things should be fine in inferno will not be zerged.
  • #15
    Quote from Slayerviper

    Quote from Kemosabe_TBC

    The level does not tell us anything! It all depends on the game algorithms, formulas and specific monster stats, which are unknown. They could make a lvl 50 monster that is harder to kill than a level 70 monster. This discussion is meaningless unless we know specific monster data and algorithms.


    I think it's safe to say your statement only applies if your comparing different monsters. I would think its VERY realistic to ASSUME that a level 60 Diablo will be stronger and have more abilities than a level 20 Diablo.


    If lvl 60 existed on inferno difficulty I would like it to be much stronger than lvl 60 on hell. Not just by having 1 more affix or more aggressive AI (I would like to know what is more aggressive AI really anyway :)).
  • #16
    comparison with wow is not accurate. we have no idea how strong level 61 mobs will be. keep in mind, you're fighting them in packs, and there is a difference between level 61 mob and level 61 champion mob. there are too many factors for us to guess.

    that's why all this shit about inferno being nerfed or some shit is retarded. people are whining and they don't even have anything to gauge it against. i swear, gamers are fucking dumb.
  • #17
    Quote from rozmata


    If lvl 60 existed on inferno difficulty I would like it to be much stronger than lvl 60 on hell. Not just by having 1 more affix or more aggressive AI (I would like to know what is more aggressive AI really anyway :)).


    I would figure the AI uses it's strength's to its advantage, take the first part of act 1 for example. (I am going to make the assumption there are more monsters than before and more likely to have elites combined with these large packs) A couple of wretched mothers focusing on spamming as much zombies as possible, you get zerged with beefy scavengers, and throw in some skeleton archers for fun. The result while you’re handling the monsters in your face you’re getting pelted from range and have monsters summoning more monsters all at once. Oh and there might be an elite making a specific pack that much worse to top it all off.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #18
    I bet they will be any tough, and possibly be might tougher.
  • #19
    @yrrildur: As far as they make us feel somehow like in D2 I will have nothing to complain about. They ofc said that we will die on nightmare. but they didn't exactly mentioned how much more difficult normal will be comparing than nightmare. I'm trying to clear it here. Looks like we have no need to worry and we should feel quite a step between hell and inferno.
    Thanks all.

    @pskfry: Well, if you don't talk at all they may not do what you want. Their difficult may be other than our difficult. We just (as a gamers) try to ensure that blizzard and us think alike.
  • #20
    Not only are they level 61, but in inferno their AI as been dramatically increased, to include speed and attack. Yes, they will be tough =D
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
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