Damn D3 got dumbed down drastically

  • #22
    Quote from asfastasican

    Quote from Brenugae

    Going to have to disagree with you Cherub, the thread title alone warrants the one star rating people are giving it. It's nothing but inflammatory and ignorant, of course it's going to incite some backlash from people, especially people like me who are sick and tired of idiotic (talking specifically about the title ansl, not the content of your post, even though I disagree with it I do agree you are entitled to an opinion) "Blizzard is dumbing Diablo down for the retards!!" posts that constantly come up.


    I had zero problem with his post. It didn't seem ignorant in any way. When I had to balls to write a novel-sized rant post about the direction of this game, all guys like you could do was act like 5 year olds and try to troll. Why? Because I actually provided alternative solutions to things I thought were problems. People that attack the "haters" on these forums just come off as baseless D3 fanbois. It's not surprising that there would be a handful of them on a site with the word "Fans" in it, but I would hope some people would just grow up and develop some original opinions for once.

    Quoting blue text as some sort of justification in any arguement doesn't make you smarter than a hater, it just makes you look brainless and without an actual opinion.


    If you actually read what I wrote you'd see that I was talking specifically about the title. The title is ignorant and inflammatory. There is no argument to say otherwise. I don't know about your post you wrote and your ideas to fix these problems, I don't remember posting in it. I applaud you for attempting to bring some discussion and putting forward your ideas on these forums and I'm sorry you feel you were trolled with the responses you received.

    Don't attack me and call me brainless and childish when I am far from brainless, and my conduct on these forums is the opposite of childish. It sounds like you have as many problems with the community as I do, even if those problems are different. I'm not going to allow the people that bother me to drive me to utter pessimism to the point where I lash out at people and personally attack them.

    I will attempt to find the post you made and see what sort of reaction you received though, as I'm curious what's forced you to this point. I feel you have become so bitter over the actions of those that disagree with you that you are at the cusp of hating the game as you obviously identify with the people I'm talking about in my post. Perhaps it's time to take a step back and put Diablo on the back burner for a while, decide whether your displeasure with the game and those of us who are excited to play it has put you in the position where you are unsure whether you want to buy the game or not.
  • #23
    Quote from ansl

    So I finally got to try the BETA and it was good fun, but not as inspiring/fresh as I had hoped (probably because I've watched all of Force's vids + others).

    I do know that it is a BETA and I can fully respect that, that being said, here are a few of my thoughts:

    - negative

    - Hammer of the Ancients is bad-ass/brutal/insane ! But WTF, the barb gets it at such a low level? This kinda kills the feeling of your character getting more awesome at higher levels. His other skills have to inflict sincere carnage if there is to be any form of visual/obvious character development.
    - The fact that we can't choose skills, and that the rune system becomes available merely due to levels is also.. well.. kinda weak, all characters will have the same palette of skills to use. Who stole my individuality?
    - The skill UI is sooooooo simple, even though the game is rated mature, you only have to be 6 years old to understand it. C'mon blizz, we aren't friggin' retards- some(most) of us like the challenge of planning and thinking whilst gaming.
    - Graphics, though a minor issue, weren't as sharp as I had hoped(actually I feel SC2 has better graphics..).

    - positive

    - Epic amounts of gore & blood (TNX Blizz <3!!)
    - Fast paced
    - Cool areas
    - Awesome effects
    - Great storytelling
    - it was only the BETA

    Hope you got something from my short humble write-up, looking forward to release.
    Go Blizz!



    1. This isn't like a regular game where when you level up you keep getting more and more badass skills, and you no longer use the starter ones. Diablo is designed to have every skill viable, and awesome. I'd be pissed if they didn't make the starting skills awesome looking, because they are still viable and I wouldn't want to use some weak looking skill.
    2. Yes, you can't choose a specific skill as you level, they are unlocked for you. But that's during leveling only. When you max out, that's when you can choose whatever ~125 skills (runed as well) for your character, making you unique.
    3. I'm confused, are you actually complaining about a UI being too simple, and easy to understand? Why on earth would you want a hard to understand / operate ui? This just makes no sense.
    4. graphics are debatable. I find them very sharp, and good looking, but I also play it on a 27" 1080 P LCD LED backlit screen. And I can tell you right now that when I drag it over to my other monitor, a 24" 1080P LCD without LED, it looks considerably less sharp. So while I find the graphics amazing and the detail very sharp, there's a very good chance some people who complain about what they see might just have an older monitor or something.
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  • #24
    Quote from Brenugae

    Quote from CherubDown

    Quote from Seeder

    Quote from CherubDown

    I'm not sure why 4 people gave this topic a 1-star rating. The man has a right to his opinion


    And others have too?


    When you downrate something it should be because the topic sucks. This topic does not suck.


    Going to have to disagree with you Cherub, the thread title alone warrants the one star rating people are giving it. It's nothing but inflammatory and ignorant, of course it's going to incite some backlash from people, especially people like me who are sick and tired of idiotic (talking specifically about the title ansl, not the content of your post, even though I disagree with it I do agree you are entitled to an opinion) "Blizzard is dumbing Diablo down for the retards!!" posts that constantly come up.

    I'm just so frustratingly sick and tired of all the non-constructive, ignorant flaming that happens within this community (yes, I understand it happens in all online communities). I come to this forum to escape a lot of that as most conversations here are constructive, even when people disagree with each other. The fans who are rife with angst and self-hatred that plague other forums either stay away from here or are removed before they can drag these forums down into their hateful shit hole.

    Anyway, this post didn't really warrant that rant, but I just wanted to say that. Also, I did not give this post 1 star as I generally never rate posts except for accidental miss clicks. But I still have strong feelings about the title.


    This place is full of flamers....they give every thread 1 star if they even bother to vote at all. The Rating thing on this forum is utterly meaningless, as is at least half the comments left.
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  • #25
    Quote from Mysticjbyrd

    Quote from Brenugae

    Quote from CherubDown

    Quote from Seeder

    Quote from CherubDown

    I'm not sure why 4 people gave this topic a 1-star rating. The man has a right to his opinion


    And others have too?


    When you downrate something it should be because the topic sucks. This topic does not suck.


    Going to have to disagree with you Cherub, the thread title alone warrants the one star rating people are giving it. It's nothing but inflammatory and ignorant, of course it's going to incite some backlash from people, especially people like me who are sick and tired of idiotic (talking specifically about the title ansl, not the content of your post, even though I disagree with it I do agree you are entitled to an opinion) "Blizzard is dumbing Diablo down for the retards!!" posts that constantly come up.

    I'm just so frustratingly sick and tired of all the non-constructive, ignorant flaming that happens within this community (yes, I understand it happens in all online communities). I come to this forum to escape a lot of that as most conversations here are constructive, even when people disagree with each other. The fans who are rife with angst and self-hatred that plague other forums either stay away from here or are removed before they can drag these forums down into their hateful shit hole.

    Anyway, this post didn't really warrant that rant, but I just wanted to say that. Also, I did not give this post 1 star as I generally never rate posts except for accidental miss clicks. But I still have strong feelings about the title.


    This place is full of flamers....they give every thread 1 star if they even bother to vote at all. The Rating thing on this forum is utterly meaningless, as is at least half the comments left.


    You're right, it is meaningless, that's why I do not bother to vote. There are flamers here, they're everywhere, but compared to the wasteland that is the official forums, it's nothing.
  • #26
    I can easily see why people would vote 1 star for this thread...

    Negative points 1 and 2 are easily solved by basic knowledge of the game.

    Negative points 3 and 4 are easily solved by basic understanding of video game economics; that a game has to meet all specs of human and computers in order to make the most profit / reach the largest audience.

  • #27
    About the skill UI, sometimes simple and functional is the best way to make something that will be used by a lot of people. Ease of use is something that is very important for anything that will be distributed to a mass audience.
  • #28
    Quote from Savages

    I can easily see why people would vote 1 star for this thread...

    Negative points 1 and 2 are easily solved by basic knowledge of the game.

    Negative points 3 and 4 are easily solved by basic understanding of video game economics; that a game has to meet all specs of human and computers in order to make the most profit / reach the largest audience.


    I'm considerably indifferent about the rating of this thread, it was merely a subjective post that was meant to illustrate my experience of the BETA.

    The negative points are solvable? Not really, they are subjective points of view.

    Whatever.
  • #29
    Quote from CherubDown

    Quote from Seeder

    Quote from CherubDown

    I'm not sure why 4 people gave this topic a 1-star rating. The man has a right to his opinion


    And others have too?


    When you downrate something it should be because the topic sucks. This topic does not suck.


    I disagree... I think both that the topic sucks, and that it shouldn't be the only reason : )

    However, I had no idea threads here had ratings; I care that much : )

    -Alamar
  • #30
    "The skill UI is sooooooo simple, even though the game is rated mature, you only have to be 6 years old to understand it. C'mon blizz"

    The game is rated M for mature because of the Violence and Gore, the game being easy to play has nothing to do with anything. Same goes for every single game ever made, they are rated based on offensive content. -sigh-
    Diablo is an action adventure game before an rpg.
  • #31
    Runes are drastically overrated. Look at what they do, there is typically a clear top 1-2 rune to use for the skills. You guys think it will be all great and diverse but you will see. Give it a few months and everyone will be soloing inferno and all be cookie cutter. Only ones who will be unique are the ones that play normal and quit cause they don't know any better.
  • #32
    I wonder how first skills scales with later levels and difficulties, the way i see it no insane wizard will use magic missile at level 60 not to mention non runed skills are pointless since there are weaker.

    On paper they have gazillions builds but in reality valid ones are numbered, i wont elaborate how many skills you will use only for 5-10 levels till u get a better one then never use it again.
    Quote from Burzghash

    Regardless, there's no good reason for forcing permanence on people..
  • #33
    Haven't you guys ever heard the Blizzard devs say, "Easy to learn, difficult to master."? It's a major part of their game design philosophy for all their games.

    Do you really want to do math equations and junk to figure out the best way to build a character? I'm not Isaac Newton over here, inventing calculus and statistically analyzing the whole game so my character will have the perfect stats. If you're into stuff like proving your hypotheses through standardized scientific methods, go back to Oxford smartguy. Proffessor Hawking needs someone to change his batteries.
  • #34
    Quote from Adon

    Runes are drastically overrated. Look at what they do, there is typically a clear top 1-2 rune to use for the skills. You guys think it will be all great and diverse but you will see. Give it a few months and everyone will be soloing inferno and all be cookie cutter. Only ones who will be unique are the ones that play normal and quit cause they don't know any better.


    The question I would pose to you is "what constitutes a top rune?" I'm not sure how anyone could easily say there is only one winner per skill. Every rune I've looked at has had different reasons for existing. Be it for AoE damage, stuns, snares, resource generation, or massive single target damage. Just because you think something like more damage is always the best rune to pick doesn't mean everyone else will feel the same.

    Diversity in builds exists because people have very different playstyles. Even at level 13 I've seen several ways to make a character that all work and work for different reasons. Some builds might not have been well suited for fighting the Skeleton King, but you could do it if you play the build well. But this is the point, no build is supposed to be the best at everything. Some will do well in groups, other in single target, some will combine the two to be all around but not be the best at either.

    Best example I can give is the wizard build I've been trying out in my current playthrough series. I never thought I'd use sleet storm, but once I combined it with Diamond Skin and changed up my playstyle a bit, I found it to be very useful in the right situations.
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
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  • #35
    Quote from mugfubawumpus

    Haven't you guys ever heard the Blizzard devs say, "Easy to learn, difficult to master."? It's a major part of their game design philosophy for all their games.

    Do you really want to do math equations and junk to figure out the best way to build a character? I'm not Isaac Newton over here, inventing calculus and statistically analyzing the whole game so my character will have the perfect stats. If you're into stuff like proving your hypotheses through standardized scientific methods, go back to Oxford smartguy. Proffessor Hawking needs someone to change his batteries.

    Except they made it so it is impossible to fail and easy to master? There are clear winners in the rune selection, clear winners in the builds will be made within a short amount of time once we get real data. Without the options to make a full strength barbarian or anything like that goofy style build that could still work and be effective the game will be shallow. They toot their horn about their customization but I haven't seen anything remotely interesting at all yet. What have they made that makes me connect to my character? I never have to level another 1... I never have to worry about skills being permanent, I don't have to worry about my stats cause apparently im to stupid to put them in myself and the gear is just a given.
  • #36
    Quote from ansl

    - The fact that we can't choose skills, and that the rune system becomes available merely due to levels is also.. well.. kinda weak, all characters will have the same palette of skills to use. Who stole my individuality?

    This is one of the most dumbfounded statements people have brought to the table as of late.
    There exists the limitation of six skill slots, each of those skills can have only one rune active. That is individuality, that is your own personal customization. Just because all of the options are open, does that mean you will play every possible build, all the time?

    No, you will only be playing with a certain set of skills/runes at a specific given time.
    Moreover, I can guarantee you that even if we play the exact same class, you will prefer skills and runes that I probably won't enjoy using, and vice versa. Options breed creativity, and the more room for flexibility is what makes the D3 skill system shine. Not to mention the open nature of item stats working in conjunction with skill builds. Even if we play the same class, we wont be searching for the same stats on our gear. It'll definitely have a personalized touch.

    Yes, people will hate this system, they'll always hate it, just because they've enjoyed the way skills have been limited in the past, and don't appreciate a system being changed this drastically. Especially if they've really enjoyed it thus far.
    Does that mean the D3 skill system is bad? Hell no.
  • #37
    Quote from KageKaze

    Quote from Adon

    Runes are drastically overrated. Look at what they do, there is typically a clear top 1-2 rune to use for the skills. You guys think it will be all great and diverse but you will see. Give it a few months and everyone will be soloing inferno and all be cookie cutter. Only ones who will be unique are the ones that play normal and quit cause they don't know any better.


    The question I would pose to you is "what constitutes a top rune?" I'm not sure how anyone could easily say there is only one winner per skill. Every rune I've looked at has had different reasons for existing. Be it for AoE damage, stuns, snares, resource generation, or massive single target damage. Just because you think something like more damage is always the best rune to pick doesn't mean everyone else will feel the same.

    Diversity in builds exists because people have very different playstyles. Even at level 13 I've seen several ways to make a character that all work and work for different reasons. Some builds might not have been well suited for fighting the Skeleton King, but you could do it if you play the build well. But this is the point, no build is supposed to be the best at everything. Some will do well in groups, other in single target, some will combine the two to be all around but not be the best at either.

    Best example I can give is the wizard build I've been trying out in my current playthrough series. I never thought I'd use sleet storm, but once I combined it with Diamond Skin and changed up my playstyle a bit, I found it to be very useful in the right situations.

    I am not saying 1 rune will be the top for a skill, but generally 2-3 runes tops will be the main goal. When you first started Diablo 2, did you think it was diverse and great for skills? Probably...and in the end it boiled down to a few select skills that were the top tiers. Which led to cookie cutter builds. Don't think Diablo 3 will not be the same, there will be top tiers for all around gameplay or for fast leveling or for PvP and they will be cookie cuttered all day. The rune system does very little to stop this, it just makes it a little more tedious.

    The first few months of the game will be great, hardly anyone will be the same...but after that say good bye to customization. Once people learn the game, it is going to be min maxed to hell.
  • #38
    If you're going to criticize the way runes work, you'd be better off saying that there are too many runes that do the same things. Each rune is designed to be particularly useful for specific builds, as in specific stat combinations. The skills/runes only become better or worse when combined with specific stats. I actually think that the chance of there being cookie-cutter builds is lowered quite a bit because of how they've designed the game. Basically, whatever gear you choose to wear will determine the skills you get.

    What's going to happen though is there will be particular builds that work with certain stat combinations... in the respect it'll be cookie-cutter. But overall, there are a large variety of viable builds. Certainly there will be top builds, but I think how people accumulate gear will be the deciding factor. If you manage to find some ultra-rare item that has really high Increased Globe Healing on it, you may decide to make a build based around that stat as opposed to some other more cookie-cutter build where you would have a harder time finding the right items.
  • #39
    Quote from CherubDown

    I'm not sure why 4 people gave this topic a 1-star rating. The man has a right to his opinion


    Though it is true that he has a right to his own opinion a person can have a correct or incorrect opinion based upon the information he is using for his opinion. Considering he has only experienced the Beta and nothing Beyond the Gate his opinion is flawed because he has incomplete information.

    With that being said, I wouldn't give it 1 star, because it is an interesting debate, and debate is usually always good.
  • #40
    Quote from sacridoc

    If you're going to criticize the way runes work, you'd be better off saying that there are too many runes that do the same things. Each rune is designed to be particularly useful for specific builds, as in specific stat combinations. The skills/runes only become better or worse when combined with specific stats. I actually think that the chance of there being cookie-cutter builds is lowered quite a bit because of how they've designed the game. Basically, whatever gear you choose to wear will determine the skills you get.

    What's going to happen though is there will be particular builds that work with certain stat combinations... in the respect it'll be cookie-cutter. But overall, there are a large variety of viable builds. Certainly there will be top builds, but I think how people accumulate gear will be the deciding factor. If you manage to find some ultra-rare item that has really high Increased Globe Healing on it, you may decide to make a build based around that stat as opposed to some other more cookie-cutter build where you would have a harder time finding the right items.

    Mmm I disagree. I see the gear going the same way Diablo 2 did it. X gear boosts Y skill so farm or trade for that. I don't see the gear being anymore unique or anymore important than Diablo 2 gear. How does the current gear mechanics make up for no connection with your character? If I find some gear that doesn't boost my cookie cutter skill, then I trade it for 1 that does.
  • #41
    Quote from Adon

    Mmm I disagree. I see the gear going the same way Diablo 2 did it. X gear boosts Y skill so farm or trade for that. I don't see the gear being anymore unique or anymore important than Diablo 2 gear. How does the current gear mechanics make up for no connection with your character? If I find some gear that doesn't boost my cookie cutter skill, then I trade it for 1 that does.


    I would wait until I have actually played the game before making assumptions like this. Yes, the system is similar to D2 in some respects but also fundamentally different than the old tree hierarchy. If you are so determined to preserve individuality there is much more potential here for unique skill combinations than D2.

    As far as character attributes go, Jay said there is basically one optimal build for each character class. So why not just have them distributed automatically? If you really want to do something weird like pump-up str on your wizard, you just go find str gear.
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