Magic Find Was per Player, is it still?

  • #42
    Quote from Mac_an_tSaoir

    Vote kick is all they needed to solve the leech problem.


    Well I'm assuming that just like other Blizzard games, vote kick has a timer. And you get in trouble for using it to much. This solves both the leech problem of people being in a group, AND the want to leech in the first place, since they will know there's no way to get away with it.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #43
    Don't forget that you would have carried the group if your damage/survival was better anyway, and if you were using mf/gf etc to balance that then you may as well have found a better group or solo farmed. Like many have said this is only a positive move and completely fair. It will reduce leeching.
  • #44
    - no leechers
    - social groups will be made based on skill level of the players (ones which can output good dmg with high MF welcome here ;). I believe this could be a good change as it would help not to mix snobs/elitist/etc with casual player who wants to play for fun.
    - good for economy, bots (ppl who just play for items to sell) will stick together, use the best gear (with high MF) and they will do fast not enjoyable runs through the content together without making our play boring and stressful cause they want to run faster and faster and kick everybody who is not a runner. They will do this hard boring work and find very low drop rate items for us which we can always buy from time to time from RAHM
    - encourage creation of guilds where people share their items. MF being an average should not impact people playing with gm8s.
    - ppl who kill fast with huge MF should join a guild or bots to benefit the most and not stress casual random players
    - casuals and people who play with relaxation in mind don't have to worry for MF that much and be stressed that it is averaged between other 3 random players as they should not even stack it much. They will probably use RAHM if they need something badly (smth what let them finish inferno at least once, etc)
    - as you can see from above single play will be only beneficial if you cannot join specialized good guild or bots groups which you should be able if you are so great fast killer and high MFinder
    - as in averagely good group you should be able to kill faster in inferno you some lack of MF may be compensated enough to forget about stacking MF altogether (though it is doubtful)

    Basically Blizzard maid a good choice here.
  • #45
    Quote from Mac_an_tSaoir

    Vote kick is all they needed to solve the leech problem.


    it's better if problem does not exist in a first place
  • #46
    Um no, they harmed co-op in pub games more with this than leaving it as it was and initiating vote kick.

    you need specific deterrence to deal with leechers.

    This change negatively effects EVERYONES MF, unless... haha you actually have a leecher in your game, than you benefit from their high MF.

    You will always have useless kids who deal no damage, ALWAYS. *unless you run with 3 people you KNOW (private games, not pub)

    So lets say you have a leecher in the group

    Player 1 100mf
    player 2 100mf
    player 3 100mf
    player 4 400mf.

    = 175 avg, congrats you just gained 75% mf, he just lost a shit ton, he was going to be useless anyways, but his uselessness didnt benefit you, now it does. Bring on the leechers. I would love for me to have a leecher in the group now, god damn i encourage leeching now. All the baddies will know their roll, and it shall be leeching, give me that MF, give me that GF you leeching son of a bitch!

    The player was always going to be bad, he couldnt do shit for himself, he couldnt do shit for the group. Guess what? He still cant do shit for himself, but now his "uselessness" benefits the group.

    He needed YOU to kill shit, so he could get the drops, he was a nuisance to you pretty much. Now he gives you MF and GF and EXP... not such a nuisance anymore. Now if you're skilled enough, you encourage them to increase your adventure stats so you can farm like a boss. Your own personal MF bot, but its not a bot, because its a player, and he cant touch your drops, fucking profit.

    Leeching needed to be socially deviant, and have the player community out them. You do this by the vote kick system, and keeping the old MF system.

    Also adding some sort of punishment to being continually vote kicked out ( timer from joining pub games ) require majority to kick. 2/3 or 3/4
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    shall be my brother..."
  • #47
    Quote from Mac_an_tSaoir
    This change negatively effects EVERYONES MF, unless... haha you actually have a leecher in your game, than you benefit from their high MF.


    The lower everyone else's MF is, the higher their killing speed should be. If the leecher was capable of solo'ing the content at a respectable pace and receiving the full benefit of his MF then he is either grouping up with people weaker than him (because they have lower MF gear but aren't clearing the content faster) or because he's in an area that's too low for his level.

    Having a split of players with a very high MF stack and the others with combat stat gear should be roughly equivalent to all players having a moderate MF stack. It might not be, but for the sake of the argument let's say it is.

    If you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. If you don't need your back scratched, then wtf are you still doing here?
  • #48
    For the sake of argument you cant say it is, because you don't how difficult its going to be. Actually the only evidence anyone can draw upon at the present time is beta. Beta was a joke, even with 4 players, it was still a joke, Even if the 4 players were split up, it was still a joke. The only evidence you can draw upon is a joke.

    Nobody knows the solo difficulty of hell or inferno, nobody knows the group difficulty of hell or inferno, based on all my experiences in every single dungeon crawler I've ever played, it was was easier to co-op, until you got godly gear, at which point it didn't matter if you played in a group or by yourself.

    Until we know how hard it is, and im going to doubt blizzard until they prove me wrong, co op will be easier than solo, so if I have 3 people in my group that are competent, or two, one person leeching is going to benefit the others..Instead of them doing useless damage that wouldnt of mattered, now they are going to give me the sexy stats.

    ^ see, im going to make the opposite prediction you had, and im going to base mine on the experiences ive had with every single dungeon crawler I've ever played.

    At the end of the day, the system does NOT deter leeching in pub games it promotes.

    Great players will look for leechers to roll with them, bad players will look for players to carry them, it will be a relationship of win for both parties.

    Does the great player need the leecher? No. It is a benefit for him to be there? yes. In nature, it would be the symbiotic relationship between a Shark and a Remora.

    Blizzard keeps this shit up, im going to find me some fucking remora action to roll with. Cause imma shark, shark shark shark shark

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2nMhz-EDOM&feature=related
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    shall be my brother..."
  • #49
    Better then the previous solution, but still... not an incentive to group up.
  • #50
    If it happens that leachers are good for a party it would mean they are not leachers anymore but specialization, you are tank, I'm dmg, and he is mf :) Till the point mf get a hold of godly gear when his only reasonable option will be to find others with similar gear or at least with high MF.
  • #51
    I was sceptical at first, but this might be a pretty good solution after all.
  • #52
    I think it s a great idea to share those value :P
  • #53
    Why does everyone assume that MF automatically gimps your character? Its one stat on an item with 6+. You can still get very high dps and survivability while giving up one stat per item for MF. The best items in the game will have MF and dps. Whatver your argument is, stop pretending MF always means a poop dps. One stat per item isn't gimping anyone.

    The old system did have the potential for abuse if someone would simply get all cheap MF gear with other useless stats. This person would have been a leach and the system is flawed. However, now someone who has invested in some of the most expensive gear in the game with MF + kill speed is going to be punished. This person would most likely kill faster than you and have a high MF%. Now they will only play solo or with friends. This means less social interaction on an already terrible b.net. Less friends and less replayability.

    I see both sides of the argument. It will help prevent scrubs from stacking blue MF gear, but will punish the player who has worked hard to get near perfect pieces that balance MF + killing speed.
  • #54
    Quote from jaclashflash

    Quote from OneTwoSC

    What do you guys think about if the 'highest' person's MF/GF was given to the group?

    Ahh its retarded?!? Thats an even more exploitable system.

    Do you really need some massive incentive to play with other people? Are you guys really that anti-social?

    Quote from Xhion

    with these changes i guess public games will have few ppl cause everybody will farm solo or with realid friends and they will know how much +mf +gf etc everybody has to divide.


    If you seriously think that, then you must of been one of the people planning on just leeching on other people.

    The only people this change hurts is leechers, and ya know what.. Fuckem!!


    I played d2 solo and the only time i played with others were friends to lvl,do baal runs and mess around.D2 society was already bad with dupes,scams and greedy ppl.D3 will have more bad players.

    Now in d3 any item that drops the other player can't see it if he doesn't drop it down again.Nobody can see what you looted.So why i should have 100% mf and a new random player joins my game with 0% mf and now the total mf drops to 50%?The monsters at inferno will be difficult and with more ppl more powerful they will become.I prefer to play solo cause this game is item hunting game and no co-op.Co-op was meant to be so you can play with friends and please the masses.

    When now you have the RMAH more ppl will be greedy and it has nothing to do with anti-social manners.For them it's just business.
    Anticipation of Death is worse than Death Itself
  • #55
    Quote from rozmata

    - as you can see from above single play will be only beneficial if you cannot join specialized good guild or bots groups which you should be able if you are so great fast killer and high MFinder

    I had to laugh at this. Guilds in D2....you could probably count them with only your fingers.
  • #56
    Quote from GamerZero

    Why does everyone assume that MF automatically gimps your character? Its one stat on an item with 6+. You can still get very high dps and survivability while giving up one stat per item for MF. The best items in the game will have MF and dps. Whatver your argument is, stop pretending MF always means a poop dps. One stat per item isn't gimping anyone.


    Erm...MF, GF and Exp stats do gimp your character. Assuming two equally geared characters and one has alot of high MF/GF/Exp those stats have been taken at the expense of survival and DPS stats that the other character has. It is quite simple.
  • #57
    Quote from Zaagazug

    Erm...MF, GF and Exp stats do gimp your character. Assuming two equally geared characters and one has alot of high MF/GF/Exp those stats have been taken at the expense of survival and DPS stats that the other character has. It is quite simple.


    Lets assume two barbarians with two different chest pieces that are near perfect:

    Armor 1:
    +strength
    +crit%
    +min dmg
    +vitality
    +atk speed
    + whirlwind

    Armor 2:
    +strength
    +crit%
    +Magic Find
    +vitality
    +atk speed
    + whirlwind

    The barbarian wearing the second armor is not gimped. He may have a very slight decrease in damage but is far from gimped and will still have far higher dps than most players. This is assuming perfect gear with every stat you could want.

    Now lets realize that stats are random and whats more likely is your going to have 4 stats that are great and 2 stats that you probably dont care to much about. The more relevant stats on an item the more expensive the item will be. If you pay for the gear with 4 relevant stats and I pay for the gear with 4 relevant stats +mf, we will be killing at the same rate. The difference is I paid more for my gear or worked harder for it but you benefit. Its ridiculous to assume the first scenario where everyone has perfect gear and every MF character has traded a relevant stat for it. Even if this was the case, the difference in kill speed is minimal.
  • #58
    This hardly changes anything. It even promotes taking one leecher along since that one person would increase your group MF, though I don't know if the leecher is interested in grouping up: If he can't kill anything in Hell/Inferno on his own at a respectable pace, then perhaps.
    We'll just have to see how hard the difficulties are.

    They should give full games a certain increased percentage to drop good items. Give us an incentive to group up aside from the social aspect.
  • #59
    If i get high magic find i wont share it by playing with others, if you want to play with me you have to own at least 300% magic find or gtfo, just giving an example on what will happen.
    Quote from Burzghash

    Regardless, there's no good reason for forcing permanence on people..
  • #60
    Quote from GamerZero

    The barbarian wearing the second armor is not gimped. He may have a very slight decrease in damage but is far from gimped and will still have far higher dps than most players. This is assuming perfect gear with every stat you could want.

    Now lets realize that stats are random and whats more likely is your going to have 4 stats that are great and 2 stats that you probably dont care to much about. The more relevant stats on an item the more expensive the item will be. If you pay for the gear with 4 relevant stats and I pay for the gear with 4 relevant stats +mf, we will be killing at the same rate. The difference is I paid more for my gear or worked harder for it but you benefit. Its ridiculous to assume the first scenario where everyone has perfect gear and every MF character has traded a relevant stat for it. Even if this was the case, the difference in kill speed is minimal.


    My point still holds - someone stacking MF compared to someone that does not at the same gear level will have lower survivability or lower DPS. It is really as simple as that.

    This system is very fair.
  • #61
    mmh i dont really like this system either because if i really want to make max MF item runs, max mf meaning as much mf as goes without loosing the ability to kill stuff, i will have to play solo now. but the other system wasnt perfect either so i think they setteled for the less worse :)
    the biggest problem is if you run into ppl who dont care about mf at all. then you are screwed
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