Replayability and Hardcore

  • #1
    I've seen many posts about how Diablo III may not have the same longevity Diablo II had due to no real reason to create a second character of the same class. Although I disagree with these posts I can see where they're coming from.

    As far as we know, a typical item run will likely involve replaying the entire game. But what about the Hardcore community? I'm not exactly familiar with just how many people were actually playing Hardcore passionately throughout Diablo II, but I'm wondering everyone thinks Diablo III will have as far as a Hardcore community.

    In my opinion, I would imagine it will grow significantly due to the fact that it probably has the best replay value out of everything as far as starting from scratch. You die... you start over!
  • #2
    Hardcore is so much different than softcore.
    I would like it if there would be an end-goal for a Hardcore character like defeat Inferno Diablo, then you get the option to retire as having won the game or something. it would give Hardcore a goal recognised by everyone as well as an achievement system.

    Without that, all only the most hardcore players will play hardcore (pun intended)
  • #3
    Quote from okrane

    Hardcore is so much different than softcore.
    I would like it if there would be an end-goal for a Hardcore character like defeat Inferno Diablo, then you get the option to retire as having won the game or something. it would give Hardcore a goal recognised by everyone as well as an achievement system.

    Without that, all only the most hardcore players will play hardcore (pun intended)



    I thought that there were hardcore achievements and that the loot around the bottom of your banner thing came from achievements in hardcore.
  • #4
    Quote from Kazlan

    Quote from okrane

    Hardcore is so much different than softcore.
    I would like it if there would be an end-goal for a Hardcore character like defeat Inferno Diablo, then you get the option to retire as having won the game or something. it would give Hardcore a goal recognised by everyone as well as an achievement system.

    Without that, all only the most hardcore players will play hardcore (pun intended)



    I thought that there were hardcore achievements and that the loot around the bottom of your banner thing came from achievements in hardcore.


    What I mean is, hardcore is an achievement in itself. The only ones playing it will be the die-hards, because all you get is a banner or some stuff. Most players will even fear grouping with randoms, because having a bad ally can spell death and the end of your game.

    The thing is I personally fail to see what hardcore is about. I mean, if it is about finishing inferno without dying, ok that's an achievement. However I would not play hardcore the same way softcore is played: what's the point in doing magic find in hardcore? You constantly risk your skin and risk losing hundreds of hours of playing and farming... it's maybe not for me, but personally, If I would be to play hardcore, I would just aim to finish inferno and that is all. doing more seems pointless and crazy.
  • #5
    Quote from okrane


    What I mean is, hardcore is an achievement in itself. The only ones playing it will be the die-hards, because all you get is a banner or some stuff. Most players will even fear grouping with randoms, because having a bad ally can spell death and the end of your game.

    The thing is I personally fail to see what hardcore is about. I mean, if it is about finishing inferno without dying, ok that's an achievement. However I would not play hardcore the same way softcore is played: what's the point in doing magic find in hardcore? You constantly risk your skin and risk losing hundreds of hours of playing and farming... it's maybe not for me, but personally, If I would be to play hardcore, I would just aim to finish inferno and that is all. doing more seems pointless and crazy.


    From what I gather it is much more intense because everything is gone if your character dies. I think your right that it's only about beating inferno and that magic find would be used a lot less. I think the whole fun of it is the surviving part and that everything is on the line at every moment and that makes it really exciting. I personally will probably play hardcore after a lot of softcore.
  • #6
    Hardcore is all about that extra challenge, and tension it brings when you know death is permanent. That amount of focus and skill you have to put into it is intensive. I know I will fail hard in HC, but I will give it good try either way :b
  • #7
    Two things will decide it:

    (1) As I said in my own post on lack of re-playability, the fact that you can't decide your own character stats seems likely to kill off HC. History shows that gaming companies are not so good at working out how the game will actually be played and the patch rate on D2 was very sporadic so adjustments won't be happening like they do in MMOs.

    If I can't decide how much life is enough, I'm probably gonna be frustrated very quickly.

    (2) In D2 people could rush a character very quickly to level 80-85. If they get the right mechanics this won't be possible in D3 so having a dead HC character could mean days or even weeks of re-levelling even if someone you trust has looted your corpse for you so that you haven't got to get all your gear again.

    Anyone who's played through D2 untwinked and without rushing will know just how much of a time sink that is.

    My guess is that there will be an expansion about a year after the vanilla game comes out which will have user-controlled char stats in it and HC could then increase in popularity (if it's not already too late - some will have a 'never again' view of HC by that time).
  • #8
    Quote from Tavarish

    Hardcore is all about that extra challenge, and tension it brings when you know death is permanent. That amount of focus and skill you have to put into it is intensive. I know I will fail hard in HC, but I will give it good try either way :b


    I agree. But will you farm in hardcore? That's the question...
    Seems pointless to me.
  • #9
    Well the way I am going to play it, it will have a lot of replay. I plan on leveling all of the classes to max level. After I do all that I want to attempt to get them all through Inferno mode.
    What is this thing called "real life?" Is that some sort of expansion pack?
  • #10
    Quote from okrane

    Quote from Tavarish

    Hardcore is all about that extra challenge, and tension it brings when you know death is permanent. That amount of focus and skill you have to put into it is intensive. I know I will fail hard in HC, but I will give it good try either way :b


    I agree. But will you farm in hardcore? That's the question...
    Seems pointless to me.


    Why not if you are skilled enough to pull it off and gear is clearly better? Min max those characters out and put extra gear into AH, sounds like a plan imo.
  • #11
    because you can lose all your progress because of one lag spike or random disconect...
  • #12
    Quote from okrane

    because you can lose all your progress because of one lag spike or random disconect...


    Lag spike? Maybe, but that is also issue Blizz has gotten a lot feedback and questions about. Hardcore HC people are worried about that aspect of D3, and for reason if you ask me. For DC's there is most likely same safety mechanics as in WoW. If you get DC you will de-spawn from game pretty much instantly. This is there to prevent these "DC Deaths".

    Way to abuse this? Not really. They even can make it so that if you get DC yours Hero will instantly de-spawn and when you get back in you start from town (i.e. Tristam). Stuff like boss encounters would be reseted naturally.
  • #13
    Replayability and starting over coz of death - different things.
    World First lvl 60 WD on HC.
  • #14
    Quote from bidmal

    Replayability and starting over coz of death - different things.


    Don't be like that :(

    Sure those are two different beasts, I admit. Re-playability depends a lot on how well "random itemization" is done and also how much there is room to randomly generate areas and dungeons. Hardcore just adds that extra salt into the game and makes game stay fresh for longer period of time, in my opinion.
  • #16
    i am happy with the idea of not having to level more than one hero of a certain type.

    i do love leveling up and playing through the story, but i am looking forward to the challenges and rewards that inferno has.

    replaying the same game again to level the same hero type soon gets annoying imo.
  • #17
    Quote from Mykungfu

    I've seen many posts about how Diablo III may not have the same longevity Diablo II had due to no real reason to create a second character of the same class. Although I disagree with these posts I can see where they're coming from.

    As far as we know, a typical item run will likely involve replaying the entire game. But what about the Hardcore community? I'm not exactly familiar with just how many people were actually playing Hardcore passionately throughout Diablo II, but I'm wondering everyone thinks Diablo III will have as far as a Hardcore community.

    In my opinion, I would imagine it will grow significantly due to the fact that it probably has the best replay value out of everything as far as starting from scratch. You die... you start over!


    I played hardcore for many years since release and it cant be compared to softcore after you start playing, items have a lot higher value since you might lose them at every corner, you appreciate items you might not have cared about in softcore, and the replay value is huge, and its a lot of fun managing to pass your previous progress with your new character, the new rune system is also GREAT for hardcore, since we don't lose our build when we die, unlike with the old rune system when they were item drops.

    All in all i think hardcore will be much better in D3 then it was in D2.
  • #18
    Quote from Incense

    Two things will decide it:

    (1) As I said in my own post on lack of re-playability, the fact that you can't decide your own character stats seems likely to kill off HC. History shows that gaming companies are not so good at working out how the game will actually be played and the patch rate on D2 was very sporadic so adjustments won't be happening like they do in MMOs.

    If I can't decide how much life is enough, I'm probably gonna be frustrated very quickly.

    (2) In D2 people could rush a character very quickly to level 80-85. If they get the right mechanics this won't be possible in D3 so having a dead HC character could mean days or even weeks of re-levelling even if someone you trust has looted your corpse for you so that you haven't got to get all your gear again.

    Anyone who's played through D2 untwinked and without rushing will know just how much of a time sink that is.

    My guess is that there will be an expansion about a year after the vanilla game comes out which will have user-controlled char stats in it and HC could then increase in popularity (if it's not already too late - some will have a 'never again' view of HC by that time).

    The other major issue that affected HC popularity in D2 was the level of hacking. Grief players were able to use exploits like TP hack to murder characters - basically a script that let them TP to town, go hostile, TP back and shoot someone in the blink of an eye.

    Blizz never did anything about it in many years of D2.

    And anyone remember the hell Ancients bug? That was a bummer - people struggled their way through to almost the end of all 3 difficulties and then one of the barbs had a bug in his death explosion - it did so much fire damage it one-shotted people. That's not funny in HC when you're running in a new ladder competition.
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