A: "I think oral sex is bad!"
B: "Well dont do it"
A: "No we should ban it!"
B: "NO! I like it"
A: "It is bad! And anyway if it is possible I may be tempted..."
Maybe by making D3 not a D2.5 they are opening up their target audience. At the end of the day Blizz has to make money to pay the bills and if by upsetting a % of players to increase the amount of new players they will attract (lets face it like the changes or not your still gunna buy it) they will make more money from it.
I just hope that between now and the end of the beta they do tweak a few things to make it more how the fan base wants it because we support Blizz by buying products and if you read all the 'we dont like this" type posts on various sites in regards to some of the latest patch changes, that has to be ringing alarm bells (i would hope) somewhere at D3HQ.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Super Cop! He knows where you live, he knows where you sleep.
This post is an personal overview on patch 13 and what it brings to the table. New changes to the game mechanics including character skills, monsters health and damage, auction house, as well as vendors !
How the rune stones turned into skill runes is a good change when looking at how it solves inventory problems as well as equally giving players their characters full potential, while before you needed to find the highest end runes in the game in order to access them. It is also better than d2 multiuple levels skill tree as skill runes will unlock spontenously as you get stronger aka lvl up!
But my first thought was if we had 5 different types of rune stones with 7 levels each, as compared to now we have 5 skill rune options, where did the other 2 levels go and what happened to the skill annimation that would have been on a level 7 rune or a different type of rune stone ?
This mystery goes hand in hand with the other patch updates. Meaning that most character skills have been redesigned to fill in the gap of these 2 rune levels that have been dropped. Which also means that monsters health had to be readjusted (higher or lower what ever the case might be) as well as their damage.
With this being said and runes gone as items, it leaves a little space for your characters to improve through items therfore vendors cost has been reduced as well as the chance of finding white items on them which obligates you on crafting your own gear or go fetch it on the new improved auction house.
Either way patch 13 is definitely a well deserved change to the game mechanics that makes gear a whole lot more important than before, rather than trying to find 5 different rune stone at level 7 each.
I must say I love it how when a game mechanic evolves and becomes more intuitive to use -- you know, in such a way to make the gameplay flow and function better -- it automatically becomes dumbed down and casual.
They took away attribute points so that we should use items and gems to plan out our characters more carefully. They took away skill points, which limited you to a few skills that unlocked over time, and replaced it with a system where you can choose a few skills over time. They took out runes, which dropped rarely so building your character was a protracted process, and gave a system where you build your skill runes through protracted leveling.
Really, I like it how things change and the mechanics just receive a fresh new face and a better laid out system, but people prefer the older systems that were far less player friendly. People really love struggling against game mechanics just as much as they love struggling against the in game enemies. Somehow it makes you more hardcore, a mean bad-ass gamer, when you play a game where the poorly laid out systems make the game a chore to sit through.
From now on they need to make games extra difficult to manage, and no I do not mean the enemies. Oh hell no. I mean games need to have menus where the buttons keep moving away when you try to click them. Games where the statistics and information keep repositioning so whenever you want to call up your character info you have no idea what is going on. Games where the inventory items get in your way and placing or picking anything up is nigh impossible. Games where the keybord layout is all over the place and when you try to change it, instead the buttons change to something else, just to make it extra difficult.
Oh yes, we demand a challenge. We are gamers, we are hardcore and if we don't get the nonsensical challenge we deserve, we'll go onto forums and bitch and moan like children, hardcore children.
I must say I love it how when a game mechanic evolves and becomes more intuitive to use -- you know, in such a way to make the gameplay flow and function better -- it automatically becomes dumbed down and casual.
They took away attribute points so that we should use items and gems to plan out our characters more carefully. They took away skill points, which limited you to a few skills that unlocked over time, and replaced it with a system where you can choose a few skills over time. They took out runes, which dropped rarely so building your character was a protracted process, and gave a system where you build your skill runes through protracted leveling.
Really, I like it how things change and the mechanics just receive a fresh new face and a better laid out system, but people prefer the older systems that were far less player friendly. People really love struggling against game mechanics just as much as they love struggling against the in game enemies. Somehow it makes you more hardcore, a mean bad-ass gamer, when you play a game where the poorly laid out systems make the game a chore to sit through.
From now on they need to make games extra difficult to manage, and no I do not mean the enemies. Oh hell no. I mean games need to have menus where the buttons keep moving away when you try to click them. Games where the statistics and information keep repositioning so whenever you want to call up your character info you have no idea what is going on. Games where the inventory items get in your way and placing or picking anything up is nigh impossible. Games where the keybord layout is all over the place and when you try to change it, instead the buttons change to something else, just to make it extra difficult.
Oh yes, we demand a challenge. We are gamers, we are hardcore and if we don't get the nonsensical challenge we deserve, we'll go onto forums and bitch and moan like children, hardcore children.
I think your fallacies are running away with you...
Posting new since I'm not sure where I'd edit it in..
I just wanted to add that, while there can be a lot of hand holding, it really doesn't bother me. I can turn off the tutorial popups and turn on advanced tool tips. Blizzard has given us ways to play in the advanced manner we crave. I think people are just focusing too much on something they really don't even have to pay attention to.
Yes there's alot of objective stuff going on such as "search hut, find ladder, search basement", but when I'm playing, I barely notice it while I'm exploring. The one good thing it does, is if I'm distracted for a moment, I can look right back at the screen and see exactly where I'm at in my quest progress. Some may see that as hand holding, I just see it as ease of use and convenience.
It boils down to:
Dont like tutorials = turn them off
don't like easy tool tips = turn them off
don't like the map arrow = don't follow it, or use it to fully explore if you want
don't like the many quest objectives = well.. don't pay attention to it and keep questing I guess.
We don't HAVE to use any of these things.
Elective mode is the one thing I agree has issues as you can't slot skills 1-4 without unlocking them first. I'm sure Blizzard has seen alot of feedback on this by now. Chances are we will get a Beta patch to see the polished version once it's ready for the Beta.
Okay, I went into ramble mode again.. sorry sorry
I think the big problem is that Blizzard is "assuming" that people are really "that stupid" to need all this by default! How about giving us the choice to install "Tutorial Mode" or not rather than forcing everyone to play through it. Yes, I know that things can be turned off/on however, they should not be buried in menu options!
I think your fallacies are running away with you...
Fallacy? So you think I've got the matter all wrong, blowing it out of proportion?
No, I will tell you what is ridiculous. When the game was first revealed, due to a rainbow people said this was no longer Diablo. Blizzard turned it into Sunshine Unicorn Islands. When they announced the monk and the demon hunter, people said Blizzard is destroying the lore of the game. When they took out attribute and skill points, they said the game is destroyed and has become Diablo for Dummies. With runes changed, people seem to think it somehow removes choice from the game. And now, they added options to make the game better to pick up for new players, and that makes the game dumbed down, even if the options to remove them are a few clicks away. That's plain lazy and sad.
So, call it what you want, but my rant wasn't all that far off. People are already blowing issues out of hand. The game is being streamlined to make it more convenient and better to play, not easy and dumb. Games use to be a lot more clunky, and now whenever modern companies attempt to streamline their titles, it either makes people lazy or turned them into naysayers sticking to the 'glory days'.
So you're saying they should actively try to make a worse game because it's more time consuming? Or did I miss your point?
Lol, not sure if trolling or stupid.
His point is half the fun in games is to learn how to do things, and he is saying that these days games are handing you the experiences and removing the process to personally achieving them. It's taking away part of the overall experience, and that's bad. That was his very obvious point
Sorry for insulting, but I'm not sure how else to put it
A: "I think oral sex is bad!"
B: "Well dont do it"
A: "No we should ban it!"
B: "NO! I like it"
A: "It is bad! And anyway if it is possible I may be tempted..."
It reminded me of something like:
A:Unsafe sex is bad, let's invade religion
B:Stop throwing condoms at litte 13 year old girls.
A:Why, 90% of (religious) women use some birth control product at one point or another
B:It should be their choice and that of their religion to hand out condoms etc at church or not.
A:well.. Maybe it should be a choice......
B:Ya think? ........
I think your fallacies are running away with you...
Fallacy? So you think I've got the matter all wrong, blowing it out of proportion?
No, I will tell you what is ridiculous. When the game was first revealed, due to a rainbow people said this was no longer Diablo. Blizzard turned it into Sunshine Unicorn Islands. When they announced the monk and the demon hunter, people said Blizzard is destroying the lore of the game. When they took out attribute and skill points, they said the game is destroyed and has become Diablo for Dummies. With runes changed, people seem to think it somehow removes choice from the game. And now, they added options to make the game better to pick up for new players, and that makes the game dumbed down, even if the options to remove them are a few clicks away. That's plain lazy and sad.
So, call it what you want, but my rant wasn't all that far off. People are already blowing issues out of hand. The game is being streamlined to make it more convenient and better to play, not easy and dumb. Games use to be a lot more clunky, and now whenever modern companies attempt to streamline their titles, it either makes people lazy or turned them into naysayers sticking to the 'glory days'.
They have dumbed it down. You have to play through the entire freaking difficulty on easy button mode just to get a challenge.
I think your fallacies are running away with you...
Fallacy? So you think I've got the matter all wrong, blowing it out of proportion?
No, I will tell you what is ridiculous. When the game was first revealed, due to a rainbow people said this was no longer Diablo. Blizzard turned it into Sunshine Unicorn Islands. When they announced the monk and the demon hunter, people said Blizzard is destroying the lore of the game. When they took out attribute and skill points, they said the game is destroyed and has become Diablo for Dummies. With runes changed, people seem to think it somehow removes choice from the game. And now, they added options to make the game better to pick up for new players, and that makes the game dumbed down, even if the options to remove them are a few clicks away. That's plain lazy and sad.
So, call it what you want, but my rant wasn't all that far off. People are already blowing issues out of hand. The game is being streamlined to make it more convenient and better to play, not easy and dumb. Games use to be a lot more clunky, and now whenever modern companies attempt to streamline their titles, it either makes people lazy or turned them into naysayers sticking to the 'glory days'.
Truthfully, it's because whenever most modern companies attempt to "streamline" their titles and make them "more accessible" for the "mainstream audience", they do "dumb it down" so the simplest common denominator can figure it out, which also means that it becomes so simplistic that it insults the intelligence of almost every other person that plays it, or they make it "optimized" for consoles, and in the meantime ruin it for the PC (see Skyrim for a recent example of this). See:
Specifically the tutorial info and the "Yeah, I get it" part.
Now, I'm not saying that Blizzard is "just like every other modern company", however many of their design choices speak of them doing just that. Yes, the options can be altered in the menu, but the problem is, how many people know this? (See the current issues with the "elective mode" checkbox) As well, their tooltips assume that you are less intelligent than a bag of hammers in being able to understand how to play the game. At least give people the option, when installing the game, to avoid the "tutorial-esque" parts of the game that no person with a reasonable amount of intelligence will need (ie, most people that will play Diablo III in the first place).
I've nothing against the simple tool tips. Thats actually a pretty smart move from blizzard. The vast majority of people simply dislike calculation and thats not a matter of judging the brain power of the players. Understand what 323% weapon damage over 2.5 seconds with 4 seconds cooldown is in terms of DPS requires some ultra basic elementar math. But it doesn't matter how basic it is, it's a annoyance if you dont deal with numbers daily.
Tooltips with fair amount of information only existed for games were permanent choices were relevant. It's impossible to decide between fire ball and inferno if i don't even kno the skill's damage. But if i can just test both skills i don't need a bunch of numbers in my game. When you play a FPS do the damage of each weapon pops up in the screen in the momment you grab it ? When you play a fightning game does the damage of each move and special move appears in the move list ?
Just think about all the game you've played and you will see what i mean. Specific skill description only exist in games were you allocate points. Thats not the case of D3 anymore.
I've nothing against the simple tool tips. Thats actually a pretty smart move from blizzard. The vast majority of people simply dislike calculation and thats not a matter of judging the brain power of the players. Understand what 323% weapon damage over 2.5 seconds with 4 seconds cooldown is in terms of DPS requires some ultra basic elementar math. But it doesn't matter how basic it is, it's a annoyance if you dont deal with numbers daily.
Tooltips with fair amount of information only existed for games were permanent choices were relevant. It's impossible to decide between fire ball and inferno if i don't even kno the skill's damage. But if i can just test both skills i don't need a bunch of numbers in my game. When you play a FPS do the damage of each weapon pops up in the screen in the momment you grab it ? When you play a fightning game does the damage of each move and special move appears in the move list ?
Just think about all the game you've played and you will see what i mean. Specific skill description only exist in games were you allocate points. Thats not the case of D3 anymore.
Those aren't the tooltips that I refer to. Those I would rather see the more specific info, but it's no real biggie. However, the tips to "Open your inventory to equip an item" and "Click on this to attack it" and "You picked up a magic item. Open your inventory to see it" and "you unlocked a skill. Open your skill menu to see it", et al. These are not needed. If you are a person that needs these kind of tips, you should not be breathing, let alone playing a video game! And they are everywhere! The hand-holding in this game is beyond necessary, and that is what I take issue with. Streamlining is one thing, but treating everyone as an idiot...that's another thing entirely.
Really people argue and go ballistics over the most trivial things. Firstly, blizzard wants to improve the game to make it more accessable and some interpret as dumbing the game to casuals. They improve the rune/skills so that everyone has a decent shot to get to use the system, but same set of people with tunnel vision scream bloody murder.
If these same set of peoples only enjoyment of a game is to farm 24/7 on inferno level to get all the high level runes? Or to make their 100th char so they can individualize it with stats? I am really amaze at these same set of people thinking diablo 3 is still diablo 2. Come on, diablo 2 has powerleveling exploits... has hacks to dupe high level runes, rare items, and uniques.... or u can even buy them from u know which sites... I believe diablo 3 will not have these cuz blizzard has put in a real money RMAH system they cant afford to have any such illegal activities or it will be bad for diablo 3 and people will quit playing.
My advice if any improvements made doesnt impact u in anyway to enjoy the game why bother making a mountain out of a molehill? If u want difficulty, why not fight naked? Or better still just use normal attacks. I am sure u are pretty unique doing it from lvl1 to 60.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'll admit it, this made me laugh.
I just hope that between now and the end of the beta they do tweak a few things to make it more how the fan base wants it because we support Blizz by buying products and if you read all the 'we dont like this" type posts on various sites in regards to some of the latest patch changes, that has to be ringing alarm bells (i would hope) somewhere at D3HQ.
Super Cop! He knows where you live, he knows where you sleep.
How the rune stones turned into skill runes is a good change when looking at how it solves inventory problems as well as equally giving players their characters full potential, while before you needed to find the highest end runes in the game in order to access them. It is also better than d2 multiuple levels skill tree as skill runes will unlock spontenously as you get stronger aka lvl up!
But my first thought was if we had 5 different types of rune stones with 7 levels each, as compared to now we have 5 skill rune options, where did the other 2 levels go and what happened to the skill annimation that would have been on a level 7 rune or a different type of rune stone ?
This mystery goes hand in hand with the other patch updates. Meaning that most character skills have been redesigned to fill in the gap of these 2 rune levels that have been dropped. Which also means that monsters health had to be readjusted (higher or lower what ever the case might be) as well as their damage.
With this being said and runes gone as items, it leaves a little space for your characters to improve through items therfore vendors cost has been reduced as well as the chance of finding white items on them which obligates you on crafting your own gear or go fetch it on the new improved auction house.
Either way patch 13 is definitely a well deserved change to the game mechanics that makes gear a whole lot more important than before, rather than trying to find 5 different rune stone at level 7 each.
They took away attribute points so that we should use items and gems to plan out our characters more carefully. They took away skill points, which limited you to a few skills that unlocked over time, and replaced it with a system where you can choose a few skills over time. They took out runes, which dropped rarely so building your character was a protracted process, and gave a system where you build your skill runes through protracted leveling.
Really, I like it how things change and the mechanics just receive a fresh new face and a better laid out system, but people prefer the older systems that were far less player friendly. People really love struggling against game mechanics just as much as they love struggling against the in game enemies. Somehow it makes you more hardcore, a mean bad-ass gamer, when you play a game where the poorly laid out systems make the game a chore to sit through.
From now on they need to make games extra difficult to manage, and no I do not mean the enemies. Oh hell no. I mean games need to have menus where the buttons keep moving away when you try to click them. Games where the statistics and information keep repositioning so whenever you want to call up your character info you have no idea what is going on. Games where the inventory items get in your way and placing or picking anything up is nigh impossible. Games where the keybord layout is all over the place and when you try to change it, instead the buttons change to something else, just to make it extra difficult.
Oh yes, we demand a challenge. We are gamers, we are hardcore and if we don't get the nonsensical challenge we deserve, we'll go onto forums and bitch and moan like children, hardcore children.
I think your fallacies are running away with you...
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
No, I will tell you what is ridiculous. When the game was first revealed, due to a rainbow people said this was no longer Diablo. Blizzard turned it into Sunshine Unicorn Islands. When they announced the monk and the demon hunter, people said Blizzard is destroying the lore of the game. When they took out attribute and skill points, they said the game is destroyed and has become Diablo for Dummies. With runes changed, people seem to think it somehow removes choice from the game. And now, they added options to make the game better to pick up for new players, and that makes the game dumbed down, even if the options to remove them are a few clicks away. That's plain lazy and sad.
So, call it what you want, but my rant wasn't all that far off. People are already blowing issues out of hand. The game is being streamlined to make it more convenient and better to play, not easy and dumb. Games use to be a lot more clunky, and now whenever modern companies attempt to streamline their titles, it either makes people lazy or turned them into naysayers sticking to the 'glory days'.
Lol, not sure if trolling or stupid.
His point is half the fun in games is to learn how to do things, and he is saying that these days games are handing you the experiences and removing the process to personally achieving them. It's taking away part of the overall experience, and that's bad. That was his very obvious point
Sorry for insulting, but I'm not sure how else to put it
It reminded me of something like:
A:Unsafe sex is bad, let's invade religion
B:Stop throwing condoms at litte 13 year old girls.
A:Why, 90% of (religious) women use some birth control product at one point or another
B:It should be their choice and that of their religion to hand out condoms etc at church or not.
A:well.. Maybe it should be a choice......
B:Ya think? ........
I understand that the beta is MEANT to be easy... but do you really need to play through an ENTIRE game without having an inkling of a challenge?
I literally feel that with the beta that I would have to TRY to die ....
They have dumbed it down. You have to play through the entire freaking difficulty on easy button mode just to get a challenge.
So you've already finished every act then! Damn, too bad the act bosses doesn't even have an inkling of a challenge.
Psh, yeah. Stupid Diablo. Why can't it be like all those other games where you die like 20 times during the tutorial?
Yeah, because in D2 the beginning of Act 1 was so damn hard, right?
Lol - Yes... you should die 20x during the tutorial. THAT is a challenging game.
Play Solstice for Nintendo, you can't beat it.
I'm not going to lie. I found Witcher 2 fairly challenging at times. I HAD to google how to beat that big kraken thing....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM&feature=g-like&context=G254dd26ALT0OeQwAEAA
Specifically the tutorial info and the "Yeah, I get it" part.
Now, I'm not saying that Blizzard is "just like every other modern company", however many of their design choices speak of them doing just that. Yes, the options can be altered in the menu, but the problem is, how many people know this? (See the current issues with the "elective mode" checkbox) As well, their tooltips assume that you are less intelligent than a bag of hammers in being able to understand how to play the game. At least give people the option, when installing the game, to avoid the "tutorial-esque" parts of the game that no person with a reasonable amount of intelligence will need (ie, most people that will play Diablo III in the first place).
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
Tooltips with fair amount of information only existed for games were permanent choices were relevant. It's impossible to decide between fire ball and inferno if i don't even kno the skill's damage. But if i can just test both skills i don't need a bunch of numbers in my game. When you play a FPS do the damage of each weapon pops up in the screen in the momment you grab it ? When you play a fightning game does the damage of each move and special move appears in the move list ?
Just think about all the game you've played and you will see what i mean. Specific skill description only exist in games were you allocate points. Thats not the case of D3 anymore.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
If these same set of peoples only enjoyment of a game is to farm 24/7 on inferno level to get all the high level runes? Or to make their 100th char so they can individualize it with stats? I am really amaze at these same set of people thinking diablo 3 is still diablo 2. Come on, diablo 2 has powerleveling exploits... has hacks to dupe high level runes, rare items, and uniques.... or u can even buy them from u know which sites... I believe diablo 3 will not have these cuz blizzard has put in a real money RMAH system they cant afford to have any such illegal activities or it will be bad for diablo 3 and people will quit playing.
My advice if any improvements made doesnt impact u in anyway to enjoy the game why bother making a mountain out of a molehill? If u want difficulty, why not fight naked? Or better still just use normal attacks. I am sure u are pretty unique doing it from lvl1 to 60.