Jay Wilson - Skill and Rune Changes

  • #41
    Quote from Doez

    Quote from Hjelpen

    Quote from Doez

    Fk yeah, we get to test runes in beta 13!!!!


    Ye, they are giving us stuffs in the beta to shut our mouths up, while they will countiune working with game for like 6 months. Most funny part is how it's only like 1% that got acces to the beta.


    Ah don't be so negative. I hope you guys realize that by them introducing runes into beta, that means we are closer than ever to a release. Now we need is a 100% functional AH (both gold and RM) and we're set.


    Ye, only problem is they will re-do ths about 100 times more, cya in 2014.
  • #42
    I think Blizzard tried a little too hard with balancing the classes. While buffing some of the Demon Hunter skills, many of the skills in other classes were nerfed. What I also found to be interesting is that gold dropped from monsters has been increased and the value of items from vendors has been decreased. Is gold not going to be as valuable as we once thought? Why has the Blacksmith's upgrades been moved to the 50% off section of Hell-Mart?

    The only thing that justifies the major class revamps is the changing of monsters and how much damage they do and health they have. The true answers will only come after this information whirlwind, when we have a moment to step back and observe all this thrust at us. Perhaps it is not the end of Diablo 3-- Maybe it is...

    If this patch update is indeed Marking us for Death, can Blizzard quick swap their skills for 15 seconds and retaliate against the Risen Dead?
  • #43
    Quote from Tekkiller

    .... Snowhammer... about 8 months ago when they announced abolition of the skill point, I freaked. You then successfully calmed me down and explained how the requirement to find & select runes will be the backbone of new character customization....

    Please help me see the positive in this change...

    It seems to me that with this change, gear is the only way to progress you character after having hit the level cap.

    Show me the light at the end of the tunnel, please!!


    Yes! Runestones seemed to be the only way (other than gear) to progress your character post level 60...Now it's going to be just like Diablo 2. We hit cap level, have our abilities we want to use, and farm the gear that we know is out there but can't seem to get our hands on. After you cap out your level, the game kind of loses it's excitement when it's like that.

    It would have been so good to be max level, and still be able to look forward to obtaining new abilities. (I think that's one of the things that make Dark Age of Camelot so successful at end game -- because you would go pvp and get new abilities as the reward for your effort and success).
    Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
  • #44
    Quote from Nastai

    On rune changes:

    "Our goal with the rune system has always been to provide additional character customization by allowing players to augment or completely alter their skills in new and significant ways. Originally, we tied this in to the itemization system because it felt like a good fit, as Diablo is all about the item drops. But with around 120 base skills, that meant there were around 600 rune variants; on top of that, each variant had five quality levels each, meaning ultimately there would be something like 3,000 different runes in the game… and we knew we were heading toward a problem."

    Great, so now there is really no point to a rune system at all -- why not just remove runes all together and put new skills that work the exact same with the same names as the rune abilities in their place? It would be the exact same thing. Seriously, playing Diablo 3 where your class gets 20-some skills to choose from, each with 5 different extensions to those skills (~100 choices for those who aren't fond of math) is NO DIFFERENT than playing a game with a class that has 100-some skills to choose from...NO DIFFERENT. Granted this still leaves room for a lot of customization on the players part, but this ultimately feeds into people saying "Oh this build is by far the most effective. Let me swap my skills runes so I can match it!" instead of them saying, "Man, I wish I had that rune so I could be that badass!". To me, this is another change that rewards casual gamers...another kick in the teeth for those hardcore or elite types.

    Seems that every time blizzard encounters a problem they take the easy road as of late. Their motto is quickly becoming, "If it presents a problem, dumb it down!"

    To me, the game will still be enjoyable...just less rewarding.


    Edit: Also, this seems to pretty much eliminate the point of using a skill as it were, without any rune. Why not just take those skills out and just use the 80-90 remaining "skill runes" as the skills to choose from? Makes sense, right?



    I also feel like that. Of course I'm looking forward to the game, but imo it could be a lot better. Well, I understand their motivation for making the game is what guide their decisions, so I can see why they did what they did. I think this is getting really close to final version for those systems.
  • #45
    I feel good with those changes, but I think they'll need to adjust the cooldown system of changing assigned skills.

    I don't know how exactly, but it'll indeed feel strange to see players change builds every 2 minutes.
  • #46
    Sorry can't comment, too busying DL'n the beta to play with skill runes!!!!! fuck yes, mr jay wilson. <3 you
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #47
    I'm not sure how finding 3,000 unique runes would be rewarding anyway. Just tedious and boring to get a single spell effect.
    "When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
  • #48
    I have to say I'm all for this change. I've been playing around with builds and thinking to myself Too bad it's going to be so lame not being able to play this guy until I find the perfect rune drop to make it happen. I'll probably end up having to settle for second best or much worse.

    Now, I don't have to fear the RNG.
  • #49
    I really really like these changes. My only dissapointment, is that there is no reason to make the tough choice of which skill to place a runestone into, as I was under the impression thre would be. But this is a minor complaint. And the trade off of having something learned at each level all the way to 60 is nice. I really like that.

    I think that this will actually increase the number of different builds people are using, at least in end game, as you no longer have to find a specific runestone level to make a skill useful. For Example the runestones that allowed you to generate a zombie dog for the WD that seemed good at high level runestones but not so good at low levels, now it will be universal, and you won't have to search.

    Overall great changes, and I'm really excited for maintenance to be over.

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  • #50
    This is absolutely brilliant =) Especially the "skill rune" changes! ^_^
  • #51
    My beautiful signature build..



    Quote from Burzghash

    Regardless, there's no good reason for forcing permanence on people..
  • #52
    Though we need compensation for not being able to sell those rank 7 runestones on the AH :')
  • #53
    If anyone ever has a key left over, PM me and I buy it for 30 dollar

    this is how fucking desperate i am

    gg
  • #54
    Quote from Mishkebobo

    Though we need compensation for not being able to sell those rank 7 runestones on the AH :')


    The compensation is you don't have to find them :P
  • #55
    I don't get why we would need 600 runes though, we can only use 7 skills at a time, with 7 lvls of runes and 5 different runes that makes 245, but we won't need one rune of each lvl for every rune, so once we have lvl 7 runes we'll need 35 runes, provided that we can change them around freely.
  • #56
    Very happy that the runestone, I mean skill runes, system is finally complete. Like some, I am a little upset that the runes aren't physical items. Now we can't trade them, or loot them, or stuff like that, and essentially now we just have an increased amount of skills, which is what we had with the old rune system, but still, having runes as a physical item is definitely a plus, but I am glad the system is complete. I look forward to unlocking things with each level, several for that matter, and enjoying this new system of runes. Hopefully I can get a beta-key so I can enjoy this stuff now, because I find it pretty awesome that we were always told we weren't going to be able to test the runestone system because it started in Act 2, but now we got the skill rune system baby, and we can hit that up on the beta =D Good job Diablo. I support the new system!
    "Not even death, can save you from me."
  • #57
    I have been really open minded so far when it comes to Blizzard's design decisions. Some of them I haven't altogether agreed with, but I've been content to just "see how it plays out". I've yet to make an "outraged" post on anything I've seen announced.

    Right, so let me just preface my post with this: I'm more than a little grumpy about this change to Runes.

    But with around 120 base skills, that meant there were around 600 rune variants; on top of that, each variant had five quality levels each, meaning ultimately there would be something like 3,000 different runes in the game… and we knew we were heading toward a problem.


    I haven't played the beta yet, so my understanding is predicated on what I've read and my interpretations. So apologies in advance if I've wildly misinterpreted how runes were to be implemented. But, how does 3000 different runes compute?

    It defies all logic to me. As far as I understood it, the most straightforward implementation of Runes would require the following:

    1. Runes be stackable.
    2. Runes can only be used once on one skill.
    3. Once consumed for a particular skill, that rune can be re-selected at any time for that skill only.

    If the above were true, inventory management concerns are totally redundant. If you had all the runes, they would still only take up 5 slots in your inventory. You would still have to engage in the item hunt that we all know and love to flesh out your entire gamut of skill/rune selections. And 10 equal levelled Wizards (even at 60) would all be different at any one time, because they wouldn't have consumed their runes to the same skills, and so they'd have different skill limitations.

    That was what sounded to me like an exciting and diverse skill system!

    The way it is now, by level 60, every gold rune will be filled out; they are no longer a rare drop and something to really look forward to getting your mitts on. Not only that, but "flavour of the month" mentalities are given completely free reign with this new system. Now, we're going to be seeing cookie cutter builds pop up without any effort on the part of players who all have access to every single skill and rune by merely levelling.

    I just don't see how this achieves anything but uniformly dampening player variation...and for no apparent gain, whatsoever?

    Surely the best and brightest at Blizzard aren't doing this for the sake of inventory management.
  • #58
    Quote from Tekkiller

    .... Snowhammer... about 8 months ago when they announced abolition of the skill point, I freaked. You then successfully calmed me down and explained how the requirement to find & select runes will be the backbone of new character customization....

    Please help me see the positive in this change...

    It seems to me that with this change, gear is the only way to progress you character after having hit the level cap.

    Show me the light at the end of the tunnel, please!!


    Ok let me try for real now.

    I'm already starting to warm up to the new system.. a bit

    I'll start by saying:
    Wow.. losing runes as items is going to take a while to get over. I've been imagining the game for SOO long as having that hunt for the perfect build aspect. Argh.. Going to be a shame not to have that concept in.

    However, all of the problems with the mass itemization are now solved. From a techincal stand point I get it.

    So why am I warming to it? Well, as you say, we now just have to turn our eyes to the items.

    Searching for awesome, higher ranks of rune stones was going to be awesome. Presumeably, the late game will have item affixes pointed at skills and/or their rune effects, after all thats what the reddit post says.. and apparently it was all true. I can't belive that wasn't a troll.

    In a way, if the above is the case, the new system makes building a rank 4-5 runestone build automatic.. but finding a rank 7 quality build would be even rarer than it was before. Assuming that you would have to find an item that fits your requirements and also has skill boosting affixes on it that go with your build.

    So, I am going to sorely miss the runes as items. and by miss.. i mean always feel like we missed Diablo 3 and instead are playing Diablo 3 patch 1.2

    That item hunt concept for perfecting your runes will be missed.

    But, the core of what makes the build calculator on the site so addictive, and whats going to make D3 so amazing is still there.

    All eyes turn to news of the new affixes now. We'll see if skill changing effects are in now.
  • #59
    slightly off topic but how do you get those official blizzard quotes?
  • #60
    I understand Jay's reasoning for changing, but I don't see how it couldn't be the old system. I would use the first iteration of the rune system, have rank 1-7 runes of 5 different types drop through out the game. If it's an inventory problem, have a seperate storage for the runes (just like how everyone kept the cube in their inven for more space, this could be stored in town or something in a chest or w/e). I don't see how hard it is to be able to stack infinite amount of Rank 3 Crimson rune in one item slot; inventory problem solved. Let's be honest here, no one is going to save up rank 1-4 runes after being in inferno, those lower ranks would only be used during normal/nightmare. One you pop a rune, it would be destroyed if you wanted to remove it to put in another rune.

    If you want to try a new skill, gotta find that rune and since rank 7's would be much harder to obtain, why not be able to combine 3 rank6 runes to get a rank7 like upgrading gems in D2? Now all the problems of inventory is solved, runes are still physical loot items, and rarity is not such a super concern for uber rank runes b/c they can be combined from lower tiers. Since people will always be trying new builds, runes will still be valueble in the economy. Am I missing anything here?
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