Jay Wilson - Skill and Rune Changes

  • #362
    ^ Not if you unlock only rune effects you don't wish to use. Thats a small advantage, i agree, but don't "fix" the issue.
    "In time the hissing of her sanity
    Faded out her voice and soiled her name
    And like marked pages in a diary
    Everything seemed clean that is unstained
    The incoherent talk of ordinary days
    Why would we really need to live?
    Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
    What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
  • #363
    Quote from ioannis

    I like the changes.This way runes will be better.
    Why? Because you can have the rune you want when you want it without losing time.
    Also it will not take space in the inventory.
    Oh, and the skills look easier to place.

    Actually some runes will be available later now than they would before, since you could rune any ability at level 30 - now you can't rune all of them untill 60
  • #364
    Quote from bigal007

    Quote from Alcovitch

    Quote from FunMaker

    I Love that change. It feels much more rewarding to gain levels at 30+. And it's not as frustrating as grinding for the rune you need.

    Neither of these things you've experienced yet so you are just making assumptions.

    Who cares really about making the 30-60 "more rewarding". Leveling so you can reach higher difficulties and craft higher level restricted gear should be enough.

    The real game starts at inferno.

    In your opinion....

  • #365
    am I the only one thinking that they had too much time on their hand and the iterations are becoming non-sense?
  • #366
    Quote from okrane

    am I the only one thinking that they had too much time on their hand and the iterations are becoming non-sense?

    I have been generally positive about all changes thous far and have seen sense of most of their content. But I can not make sense of the new rune system, since I personally thought the 5 rune system was perfect (if they wasn't specific for each skill - aka only 5 slots in inventory would be needed).

    But I am starting to feel they have made a "George Lucas" on the game, and somehow I also have a feeling that most of the changes are made for console reasons.

    /tinfoil hat
  • #367
    We can all sit here and weigh the pros and cons of the new rune system vs. the old one vs. some other variant we dreamed up. To me, it's simple - this is positive because..... (wait for it)..... BLIZZARD FINALLY MADE UP THEIR MINDS ABOUT IT!! I, for one, am tired of people (both behind closed doors at Blizzard and forums) discussing what they think the rune system or any other part of the game for that matter should look like. The fact is that every rune system you can come up with will have its benefits and drawbacks. No decision Blizzard makes on this will please everyone - we've all got our own "rune utopia" that would be perfect for us, but others wouldn't agree. So can we all just be happy that they finally made a decision on the rune system so that maybe we can get the game and enjoy playing it???

    One thing is certain - this announcement is a SIGN OF RELEASE!!! :)
  • #368
    Quote from snowhammer

    Quote from Tekkiller

    .... Snowhammer... about 8 months ago when they announced abolition of the skill point, I freaked. You then successfully calmed me down and explained how the requirement to find & select runes will be the backbone of new character customization....

    Please help me see the positive in this change...

    It seems to me that with this change, gear is the only way to progress you character after having hit the level cap.

    Show me the light at the end of the tunnel, please!!

    Ok let me try for real now.

    I'm already starting to warm up to the new system.. a bit

    I'll start by saying:
    Wow.. losing runes as items is going to take a while to get over. I've been imagining the game for SOO long as having that hunt for the perfect build aspect. Argh.. Going to be a shame not to have that concept in.

    However, all of the problems with the mass itemization are now solved. From a techincal stand point I get it.

    So why am I warming to it? Well, as you say, we now just have to turn our eyes to the items.

    Searching for awesome, higher ranks of rune stones was going to be awesome. Presumeably, the late game will have item affixes pointed at skills and/or their rune effects, after all thats what the reddit post says.. and apparently it was all true. I can't belive that wasn't a troll.

    In a way, if the above is the case, the new system makes building a rank 4-5 runestone build automatic.. but finding a rank 7 quality build would be even rarer than it was before. Assuming that you would have to find an item that fits your requirements and also has skill boosting affixes on it that go with your build.

    So, I am going to sorely miss the runes as items. and by miss.. i mean always feel like we missed Diablo 3 and instead are playing Diablo 3 patch 1.2

    That item hunt concept for perfecting your runes will be missed.

    But, the core of what makes the build calculator on the site so addictive, and whats going to make D3 so amazing is still there.

    All eyes turn to news of the new affixes now. We'll see if skill changing effects are in now.

    Snow, I think this time it's a step too far for me.

    There now is no conesequence to any choice left. No skill points, nor rune stone investments. Nothing.

    Only gear. That is very one-dimensional.

    In fact, there really are no runes. It's just that now, when you level, you get access to [6-9] spells, whereas before you got access to 1-3 spells.

    The beta has been fun but has no depth in gameplay mechanic. This is to be expected given it is only the beginning part of the game as a whole, and my primary reassurance so far was that the rune stone system will provide an additional layer of depth. I am not sure this can still be achieved.

    I just fundamentally disagree with this system where, with a click of a few buttons, the character can cover the entire spectrum of what the class has to offer. That's not choice. Or at least not meaningful choice.

    Meaningful choice is having to forego something by actively choosing something else. To me (and admittedly that's a very personal question) it is completely boring if I can just have it all without suffering any consequence.

    I think I have gotten to the point where I'll just step away for a bit. Maybe I'll just have to wait for Diablo 4.

    Thanks for giving it a go though!
  • #369
    It's probably been said but this thread is 19 pages long so.

    Only issue I have is that we now can't do theme builds before we unlock everything. First play through would have been like that, but for example you now cant have an ice themed wizard until you have unlocked all skills and ice runes.

    It's a minor issue but it does place a barrier on people that want to do a themed play through.

    You just lost

    THE GAME!!!
  • #370
    I'll just post here because I'm not allowed to reply on Bnet forums since I don't pay for WoW anymore - grats on failing Blizzard. These new skill and rune changes are a step in the complete opposite direction from what Blizzard has repeatedly stated being they are making D3 as customizable as possible. This new patch makes Diablo more cookie-cutter than WoW nowadays. Go back to what was a good thing and stop wasting more time as keeping the game as it is right now makes many question your ability to make a "quality gaming experience".
  • #371
    I just had my first day with the new rune and skill system (skills have switched levels they unlock at also, no more disintegrate for me, aww..). I really enjoyed the rune system, but i'm also surprised: To new players, getting a rune that is unlocked at a higher level might just be considered better: since you get it later, it must be better, right?

    Not so ofc :) but still, if the intend was to make it approachable to new players, they might have done the opposite to some extent. Anyway, i'm also ecstatic that they finally finished the rune system - they must be running out of reasons to hold out on release.. "Soon" :)
  • #372
    I do understand some of the criticism this iteration of the system is getting, but overall I see it as a further step towards a solid game.
    1) This iteration solves the inventory problem
    2) It does not remove the idea of the rank of runes (stronger runes vs weaker runes), it merely moves that to gear. I.e. where before you'd have a rank 1 vs a rank 5 rune, you now always have the same base rank of rune, but i.e. an item affix can mod that. That could be in the form of "+crimson rune skill" or maybe even more specific "+meteor shower skill". I do not know if they are going to add this to items, but I would like to see it in some form or the other.
  • #373
    The new changes are great. I could see this game released in the actual state.
  • #374
    Why have a level cap on the skill runes when all skill runes are roughly equivalent in power? Won't it mean less customization during lower levels.
  • #375
    personally i don't like this change much, cuz as much as 3000 runes to hold is ridiculous and takes up unnecessary space in inventory, they could have implemented a specific "inventory" for runes apart from the normal inventory by just have an option to toggle between the runes u have on ur char directly from the skill system and if any1 wanted to take those runes to other chars or sell it they could have drag it to normal inventory and place in shared stash or list it straight from runes inventory to the ah - or on the other hand so there won't be any rune floods in economy, just have that rune destroy if u get a better 1, and decrease the drop rate of higher runes while just have a normal drop rate for lower runes, so ppl will have the option to use the runes they want for the skills before getting to nightmare.
    i rly liked the fact that u could find some powerful rune to improve ur skill and it's more thrilling and rewarding when 1 such rune drops for u.
    sadly, as the current runesystem works, there will be runes that u won't mange to get till very high lvl - which means most of ur lvling u won't have those rune specifc skills which can be rly disappointing, moreover if the time it takes to get to lvl 60 is equally as the amount of time u got to lvl 99 in d2, than it will take very very long time - and some casul players will never get to that lvl, which means they played a game but couldn't use all the skills available(which is a rly bad thing imho).

    to conclude my thought, i don't believe bliz will change the current rune system, mayB alittle bit, but not to a majer change - so i guess i will have to get use to it and i will enjoy this game nontheless.

    P.S: sry for any missspelling and grammer mistakes , english isn't my native language :).

    just wanted to voice my opinion on this subject, have a nice day every1 :) - and hopefully i will see u guys in game at release.
    best regards,

  • #376
    Quote from Leonx66

    Unless they make a huge variety of endgame gear that favors a wide range of different skills/"builds"(which I still think and hope they will) 95% of the players will use the same skill setup, because it's the fotm that is considered most effective.

    I think they can and if they won't they fail. But it should not be a problem for them to add some items. Anyway, this is smth we cannot speculate to much about as we know little.
  • #377
    Quote from Maschinentrauma

    I can not understand why so many people here can be convinced that these radical changes can be beneficial to the game, especially to the endgame.
    The need of specific runes to enhance my talents gave me a warm nostalgic feeling (in the sense of farming stuff) and the option to combine a skill with a given rune as soon as i reach a specific level.

    Please could anybody tell me how this will be when we take a highlevel skill as example?
    Let's take a look at the Monk-skill-panel at: http://media.diablof...ne2_tooltip.jpg

    There you can see that Wave of Light will be available at lev 20 (down from 29), but when would I be able to place the "Empowered Wave" rune if Dashing Strike (as former level 6 Skill) needs level 21 as requirement for the Quicksilver-rune (same runecolor)

    So, now I presume that I have to be level ~ 41 to get my Wave of Light combined with Empowered Wave-rune with the new system instead of level 29 with the previous system?

    I think this sounds like utter crap to me if the "difficulty" of nightmare+ will in fact be SO hard as they mentioned it in the last blue posts. I don't expect this anyway, but before this patch I had the chance to prepare myself without sheer leveling and have specific runed skills as soon as I take a step into a specific difficulty...

    Am I right or am I simply not getting the point?

    P.S.: Can't really understand to revamp the system to a nearly Skill-tree-related system... putting in skill-trees initially had probably solfed the complete issue and the whole shit wouldn't be necessary.

    Well, you will have to prepare more and have more skill sets for different levels. Choose from what you have and choose wisely :) At 60 you will grind with what you wanted without waiting for great rune drop.
  • #378
    The time spent 1-59 will not compare to the time spent at 60 at all, so the argument that you have less customization while leveling doesn't hold much water.

    I personally believe I have the answer as to what the runestone system should have been from the get go and differs from what's in place now, but that's only because like the rest of you I've been filled in on their thought process and suggestions for an age now. You can't make everyone happy, and since they said it's their final form for launch people are going to just have to suck it up and give it a real chance until then.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #379
    Quote from Leonx66

    Quote from rozmata

    Quote from z00tGRUNT

    However, it comes with one ginormous downside - some of us won't get the desired rune effect until LEVEL 60. Like let's say that hypothetically, I really wanted Toad of Hugeness with Plague of Toads - I'd have to play through Hell difficulty just to get it. I won't get to enjoy having a giant toad with me in the earlier difficulties of the game, even if its weaker like in the previous rune system.

    If they gave you a choice about a skill rune you would end-up having all you want before lvl 30.

    that's where lvls of runes could have come in, lvl 7 runes could have required lvl 60, or close to lvl 60.

    They wanted to give us a feel of accomplishment every level. Rune level wouldn't give it. It is just more dmg.
  • #380
    The previous rune system is better.

    It's casual mentality (making things EASIER and CONVENIENT), which people think is better for the majority, but just because it fits the majority, doesn't mean it's better. I believe the casual mentality will break people's respect for games in the long run and is like comparing expendable money versus sentimental value.

    The previous rune system is better for the basic concept that there would be additional effort to acquire runes. With this new system, it is handed to you as you level up, which already is "easily" doable.
  • #381
    Quote from Shadout

    Quote from Snaks42

    Because what I see is a fully implemented skill and rune system, and therefore no more big changes. What I see is that the game's environment, bosses, zones, quests, dungeons, items, and skills are done. What I see, is a release soon. They have nothing else big to work on.

    Actually they still seem to have quite some work left to be done on itemization.
    Of course we don't know how far their internal build is, but from what they have told us and what they show on their website, that might the biggest thing left.

    Also depending on how long they have had the new rune system, it requires a re-balance of all four difficulties.

    Shouldn't take to much time. And they can continue this even after release date.
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