so after so many QQ rage threads over the many months about customization i have to seriously ask.
what is your insane obsession with being absolutely unique in a game played by millions? you do know thats literally impossible no matter what system they implement right? and no matter what system you have someone can ALWAYS copy you. very easily in fact even with obstacles in the way.
and what uniqueness was in D2? how was the customization in D2 so infinitely better?
Superuniqueguy: "oh im a hammerdin"
Everyone else: "yea we all have one of those....."
Superuniqueguy:"oh im a crazy chargdin"
Everyone else: "ya got one of those too..."
Superuniqueguy: "uhm..... i have ENIGMA"
Everyone else: "yep we have that on all of our characters".
Not so unique guy: "awww you mean im not unique at all? does this mean my black nail polish and cargo shorts dont make me unique either? i drew a them....."
Not so unique guy: "well..............do you have....... 337 vitality?"
Everyone else: "not exactly... 324"
Superuniqueguy: "VICTORY"
DISCLAIMER: if your experiencing confusion, nausea, appear to be seeing trolling or you disagree dont be alarmed, you are just not smart enough to comprehend real customization and you still think the illusion of customization is a good thing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
As long as the loot's original I'm happy. All I really ask of this game is to have insanely good looking items i can covet and hoard, everything else is extra.
Either you didn't play Diablo I and II or you are trying to troll, sorry.
Just do the math and you will easily see why DII had superior customization compared to DIII.
i just showed you in a comical version of how its not. the illusion of customization is all D2 had. and i just proved that with my little back n forth.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
after you switch a skill, those skills you are using = a build. DOH! *mind explodes*
It's not a build... If u play, let's say, Quake and currently swapped to shotgun it's not your build lol...
So you think all those customization is illusionary and redundant? Ok:
1) let's get rid of builds: we'll have access to all skills w/o penalties on switching (like destroying runes or smth else Blizz may come up with)
2) let's get rid of classes: why start new character for every class? just give all skills to one Humanoid class. We will have x100500 more possible sets of skills then!
3) let's get rid of levels: "oh, i've finally got to lvl 60" "so what, i have 10 lvl 60 characters" "oh that's shitty then"
4) let's get rid of hardcore modes, every1 can just delete their characters after death... what's the point of different mode
5) let's get rid of different difficulties (combines perfectly with 3rd): every1 will farm inferno anyway in the end... why create more kinda the same levels u have to go through if u wanna farm Inferno, pfff
....
what will we have? some arcade-like action. it won't be Action RPG anymore. some llike those and play counter-strike/mario/other_arcades.
Those things like different levels u have to go through, different difficulties, different classes/builds you have to put some effort to to get them working... It's not just about illusionary uniqueness, it's about the joy of process playing RPG which includes planning of character.
And i'm sure Blizzard will do smth about it, that's why they weren't satisfied with that version of rune-system they presented before.
Either you didn't play Diablo I and II or you are trying to troll, sorry.
Just do the math and you will easily see why DII had superior customization compared to DIII.
Although I'd love to see the math for this claim, it wouldn't make much of an argument to say one game is superior because the decision tree is larger. Diablo 3's emphasis on a smaller set of more well defined abilities that scale automatically with your progression makes more builds viable in later difficulties.
Diablo 2 had a lot of great things about it, but uniqueness between characters of the same class is not one of those things.
after you switch a skill, those skills you are using = a build. DOH! *mind explodes*
It's not a build... If u play, let's say, Quake and currently swapped to shotgun it's not your build lol...
So you think all those customization is illusionary and redundant? Ok:
1) let's get rid of builds: we'll have access to all skills w/o penalties on switching (like destroying runes or smth else Blizz may come up with)
2) let's get rid of classes: why start new character for every class? just give all skills to one Humanoid class. We will have x100500 more possible sets of skills then!
3) let's get rid of levels: "oh, i've finally got to lvl 60" "so what, i have 10 lvl 60 characters" "oh that's shitty then"
4) let's get rid of hardcore modes, every1 can just delete their characters after death... what's the point of different mode
5) let's get rid of different difficulties (combines perfectly with 3rd): every1 will farm inferno anyway in the end... why create more kinda the same levels u have to go through if u wanna farm Inferno, pfff
....
what will we have? some arcade-like action. it won't be Action RPG anymore. some llike those and play counter-strike/mario/other_arcades.
Those things like different levels u have to go through, different difficulties, different classes/builds you have to put some effort to to get them working... It's not just about illusionary uniqueness, it's about the joy of process playing RPG which includes planning of character.
And i'm sure Blizzard will do smth about it, that's why they weren't satisfied with that version of rune-system they presented before.
how does a penalty like say it costing some gold to respec somehow make YOU magically unique or grant more customization? please shed some light on that logic.
and your build is what skills you choose to use. period. thats what a build is. its the set of skills you are using to compliment your playstyle. if you want to copy someone elses build because you liked it, its still your build when your using it. allowing to swap skills every 30 seconds makes it so no one can/will switch in combat anymore so you have to stick with your build or go back to town and switch a skill or go into a corner and wait for the 30 seconds to use the skill/set of skills you switched to. i dont plan on switching my build up besides testing a new skill. once i figure out which i like and dont i will create my build and stick to it, how does being able to freely swap take anything away from the build ive created? it doesnt.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
It's very, very simple. D3's customisation is much more similar to Resistent Evil 5 and Guild Wards then "true" RPGs like D&D. Picking skills is just like picking weapons in shooters or a build order in starcraft. It's not building a character's personality, something that he must carry, something thats part of his history no matter if it's good or bad.
All this discussion is because some people like a more rp approach for character building and others don't. Blizzard favored the second group and the first group is mad. Just dom't pretend the game changed for the better for everyone, like this new system superiority is 100% objective fact. It isn't, some people like the fact that they had to carry a level 6 bash for the rest of that barb's life, and they have good reasons to.
and your build is what skills you choose to use. period. thats what a build is. its the set of skills you are using to compliment your playstyle. if you want to copy someone elses build because you liked it, its still your build when your using it.
It's not a build, it's just skills you are using in your rotation. How can't you see the difference?
Let's say you have 1-2 AOE skills among your 6, which you don't use on single targets. So u come to a boss w/o minions and spam only other 1-2 skills on him. Does it mean you've got different build? No, you just changed your rotation. Now think a bit more, if u can freely swap any skills w/o any penalties - it's the same. In one situation u use one set of skills, then before bossfight you switch to other skills. It doesn't change your built. So far each class have one build, if there is no hard penalties.
Also, your whole post and reasoning is based on confusion of understanding of what "unique" means. Is Mona Lisa by Da Vinci not unique, coz there are a lot of copies? Not exactly.
In build-context, uniqueness means that to make a different built you've got to put some effort in it. In D2 it was time to level new character. In D3 it may be money through runes, which is equivalent of time, but it may let you the possibility of experimenting a lot before Inferno (thx to low-cost low-midlvl runes), without the need to start new character for every build u wanna try. And that's great. This system looks much better than D2's. Ofc if there's still some uniqueness in late-game.
and your build is what skills you choose to use. period. thats what a build is. its the set of skills you are using to compliment your playstyle. if you want to copy someone elses build because you liked it, its still your build when your using it.
It's not a build, it's just skills you are using in your rotation. How can't you see the difference?
Let's say you have 1-2 AOE skills among your 6, which you don't use on single targets. So u come to a boss w/o minions and spam only other 1-2 skills on him. Does it mean you've got different build? No, you just changed your rotation. Now think a bit more, if u can freely swap any skills w/o any penalties - it's the same. In one situation u use one set of skills, then before bossfight you switch to other skills. It doesn't change your built. So far each class have one build, if there is no hard penalties.
Also, your whole post and reasoning is based on confusion of understanding of what "unique" means. Is Mona Lisa by Da Vinci not unique, coz there are a lot of copies? Not exactly.
In build-context, uniqueness means that to make a different built you've got to put some effort in it. In D2 it was time to level new character. In D3 it may be money through runes, which is equivalent of time, but it may let you the possibility of experimenting a lot before Inferno (thx to low-cost low-midlvl runes), without the need to start new character for every build u wanna try. And that's great. This system looks much better than D2's. Ofc if there's still some uniqueness in late-game.
yes it is a build. the set of skills you use IS a build. build = set of skills you are using/have equipped. are you for real man? or just epic trolling me? in D2 if you were a meteorb sorc and used meteor most of the time and then switched to using orb, are those two sepparate builds? thats what you saying, your talking out your ass man.
in D2 you can now respec with zero penalty, all you need is the den of evil quest or if you used them all up buy a token from someone they are insanely cheap or farm them they are very easy to get. using a quest or some token doesnt somehow make it infinitely better, its just an illusion of permanancy because i got like 30 of those tokens very quickly after the patch came out and i was respeccing like a mad man.
EDIT: i get the switching before a boss. i plan on having a farming build and a boss build and ill be switching between them before act bosses obviously. this is a good thing, gimping your character by making him not able to switch doesnt make the game more enjoyable. and adding a cost wouldnt change anything at all. not even a little
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
yes it is a build. the set of skills you use IS a build. build = set of skills you are using/have equipped. are you for real man? or just epic trolling me? in D2 if you were a meteorb sorc and used meteor most of the time and then switched to using orb, are those two sepparate builds? thats what you saying, your talking out your ass man.
in D2 you can now respec with zero penalty, all you need is the den of evil quest or if you used them all up buy a token from someone they are insanely cheap or farm them they are very easy to get. using a quest or some token doesnt somehow make it infinitely better, its just an illusion of permanancy because i got like 30 of those tokens very quickly after the patch came out and i was respeccing like a mad man.
You are the one who says that if you are meteorb sorc, and u use mostly orb, but then switch to meteor for cold-immunes, u get totally new build. It's not, it's just different rotation.
In D2 they couldn't solve the problem w/o rebuilding whole skill-system. So they just let reskill almost freely to make more skills viable (during leveling) and let experiment. It has nothing to do with completely new skill-system in D3.
You are the one who says that if you are meteorb sorc, and u use mostly orb, but then switch to meteor for cold-immunes, u get totally new build. It's not, it's just different rotation.
In D2 they couldn't solve the problem w/o rebuilding whole skill-system. So they just let reskill almost freely to make more skills viable (during leveling) and let experiment. It has nothing to do with completely new skill-system in D3.
i was making fun of you. lawl.
you dont know what a build is. you think the freedom to switch means theres no such thing as a build. hate to break it to you but your way of thinking is wrong, its not your opinion of it, its just 100% wrong. D2 had a flawed permanancy to builds and after playing it for so long it brain washed people into thinking permanancy was actually a good thing when it wasnt. you need to detox from the old D2 ways and open your mind to the evolution that is D3. or dont. ill enjoy it enough for the both of us and every other person who doesnt buy it because of flawed logic
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
DII Sorceress:
30 passive and active skills divided amongst 3 skill trees
Synergies promoting additional damage for other spells
99 skill pointss from levels plus 4 per difficulty gives 111 to allocate
to obtain all thirty skills, you are left with 81 points, which can be used to max out 4 abilities (rounded)
So you get 4 fully powered abilities (skill maxed), with a few 1 (or low) point wonders
DIII Wizard:
16 passive skills, which allow you to choose 3
25 active skills, which allow you to choose 6 fully
each of the 25 skills can be augmented 6 different ways, changing them more significantly than "synergies" from DII, sometimes changing how the skill even functions
So where is the lack of customization? you have more skills (16+25=41 in DIII vs 30 in DII), that can be altered more significantly than DII offered
you dont know what a build is. you think the freedom to switch means theres no such thing as a build. hate to break it to you but your way of thinking is wrong, its not your opinion of it, its just 100% wrong. D2 had a flawed permanancy to builds and after playing it for so long it brain washed people into thinking permanancy was actually a good thing when it wasnt. you need to detox from the old D2 ways and open your mind to the evolution that is D3. or dont. ill enjoy it enough for the both of us and every other person who doesnt buy it because of flawed logic
U just can't understand the difference between build and rotation. Have u played WOW? Every build has like ~20 skills. But usually u use only ~8 of them in every different situation (like boss fight, trash fight, PVP). So those ~8 skills are your skill-rotation (it also includes the priority of each).
It's very, very simple. D3's customisation is much more similar to Resistent Evil 5 and Guild Wards then "true" RPGs like D&D. Picking skills is just like picking weapons in shooters or a build order in starcraft. It's not building a character's personality, something that he must carry, something thats part of his history no matter if it's good or bad.
All this discussion is because some people like a more rp approach for character building and others don't. Blizzard favored the second group and the first group is mad. Just dom't pretend the game changed for the better for everyone, like this new system superiority is 100% objective fact. It isn't, some people like the fact that they had to carry a level 6 bash for the rest of that barb's life, and they have good reasons to.
You still have the choice of carrying the equivalent of a level 6 bash for the rest of your life, us who like experimentation, but don't enjoy the risk of destroying a character can now switch the skill. If those people want they can still carry that level 6 bash for the rest of that barb's life. It objectively it is 100% a fact that this system allows that second group you speak exactly the freedom they wish for. It allows the first group the same options they previously has by keeping the skills they originally choose. What it does not allow the first group who want to be stuck with whatever build they choose to gain the benefit of choosing a better build than the second group because the second group can change their skills. This new skill system doesn't affect the individual if you would like to punish yourself to a single unchangable build please do so, the rest of us will experiment and figure out what build we like.
you dont know what a build is. you think the freedom to switch means theres no such thing as a build. hate to break it to you but your way of thinking is wrong, its not your opinion of it, its just 100% wrong. D2 had a flawed permanancy to builds and after playing it for so long it brain washed people into thinking permanancy was actually a good thing when it wasnt. you need to detox from the old D2 ways and open your mind to the evolution that is D3. or dont. ill enjoy it enough for the both of us and every other person who doesnt buy it because of flawed logic
U just can't understand the difference between build and rotation. Have u played WOW? Every build has like ~20 skills. But usually u use only ~8 of them in every different situation (like boss fight, trash fight, PVP). So those ~8 skills are your skill-rotation (it also includes the priority of each).
played wow for 3 years. but guess what. this isnt wow and the TALENT/skill system in WoW is absolutely nothing like the systems in d2 OR d3. comparison fail.
I fully accept that some people like to play with nails & wood, while others prefer legos. To each his own. I like the lego approach more, because it makes trying out different skill combinations super easy.
great analogy, simple yet effective. winning. +1
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
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what is your insane obsession with being absolutely unique in a game played by millions? you do know thats literally impossible no matter what system they implement right? and no matter what system you have someone can ALWAYS copy you. very easily in fact even with obstacles in the way.
and what uniqueness was in D2? how was the customization in D2 so infinitely better?
Super unique guy: "oh im a hammerdin"
Everyone else: "yea we all have one of those....."
Super unique guy:"oh im a crazy chargdin"
Everyone else: "ya got one of those too..."
Super unique guy: "uhm..... i have ENIGMA"
Everyone else: "yep we have that on all of our characters".
Super unique guy: "der uhh... light sorc? blizz sorc? bow zon? summon necro? frenzy barb?"
Everyone else: "afraid so"
Not so unique guy: "awww you mean im not unique at all? does this mean my black nail polish and cargo shorts dont make me unique either? i drew a them....."
Not so unique guy: "well..............do you have....... 337 vitality?"
Everyone else: "not exactly... 324"
Super unique guy: "VICTORY"
DISCLAIMER: if your experiencing confusion, nausea, appear to be seeing trolling or you disagree dont be alarmed, you are just not smart enough to comprehend real customization and you still think the illusion of customization is a good thing.
i just showed you in a comical version of how its not. the illusion of customization is all D2 had. and i just proved that with my little back n forth.
after you switch a skill, those skills you are using = a build. DOH! *mind explodes*
Now we see who is trolling. You obviously have no clue what's going on in D3.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
i challenge you to prove that odin.
shit i am trolling... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll <=== wikipedia said so.
i thought if i was right then it negates my trolling. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
So you think all those customization is illusionary and redundant? Ok:
1) let's get rid of builds: we'll have access to all skills w/o penalties on switching (like destroying runes or smth else Blizz may come up with)
2) let's get rid of classes: why start new character for every class? just give all skills to one Humanoid class. We will have x100500 more possible sets of skills then!
3) let's get rid of levels: "oh, i've finally got to lvl 60" "so what, i have 10 lvl 60 characters" "oh that's shitty then"
4) let's get rid of hardcore modes, every1 can just delete their characters after death... what's the point of different mode
5) let's get rid of different difficulties (combines perfectly with 3rd): every1 will farm inferno anyway in the end... why create more kinda the same levels u have to go through if u wanna farm Inferno, pfff
....
what will we have? some arcade-like action. it won't be Action RPG anymore. some llike those and play counter-strike/mario/other_arcades.
Those things like different levels u have to go through, different difficulties, different classes/builds you have to put some effort to to get them working... It's not just about illusionary uniqueness, it's about the joy of process playing RPG which includes planning of character.
And i'm sure Blizzard will do smth about it, that's why they weren't satisfied with that version of rune-system they presented before.
Although I'd love to see the math for this claim, it wouldn't make much of an argument to say one game is superior because the decision tree is larger. Diablo 3's emphasis on a smaller set of more well defined abilities that scale automatically with your progression makes more builds viable in later difficulties.
Diablo 2 had a lot of great things about it, but uniqueness between characters of the same class is not one of those things.
how does a penalty like say it costing some gold to respec somehow make YOU magically unique or grant more customization? please shed some light on that logic.
and your build is what skills you choose to use. period. thats what a build is. its the set of skills you are using to compliment your playstyle. if you want to copy someone elses build because you liked it, its still your build when your using it. allowing to swap skills every 30 seconds makes it so no one can/will switch in combat anymore so you have to stick with your build or go back to town and switch a skill or go into a corner and wait for the 30 seconds to use the skill/set of skills you switched to. i dont plan on switching my build up besides testing a new skill. once i figure out which i like and dont i will create my build and stick to it, how does being able to freely swap take anything away from the build ive created? it doesnt.
It's very, very simple. D3's customisation is much more similar to Resistent Evil 5 and Guild Wards then "true" RPGs like D&D. Picking skills is just like picking weapons in shooters or a build order in starcraft. It's not building a character's personality, something that he must carry, something thats part of his history no matter if it's good or bad.
All this discussion is because some people like a more rp approach for character building and others don't. Blizzard favored the second group and the first group is mad. Just dom't pretend the game changed for the better for everyone, like this new system superiority is 100% objective fact. It isn't, some people like the fact that they had to carry a level 6 bash for the rest of that barb's life, and they have good reasons to.
Let's say you have 1-2 AOE skills among your 6, which you don't use on single targets. So u come to a boss w/o minions and spam only other 1-2 skills on him. Does it mean you've got different build? No, you just changed your rotation. Now think a bit more, if u can freely swap any skills w/o any penalties - it's the same. In one situation u use one set of skills, then before bossfight you switch to other skills. It doesn't change your built. So far each class have one build, if there is no hard penalties.
Also, your whole post and reasoning is based on confusion of understanding of what "unique" means. Is Mona Lisa by Da Vinci not unique, coz there are a lot of copies? Not exactly.
In build-context, uniqueness means that to make a different built you've got to put some effort in it. In D2 it was time to level new character. In D3 it may be money through runes, which is equivalent of time, but it may let you the possibility of experimenting a lot before Inferno (thx to low-cost low-midlvl runes), without the need to start new character for every build u wanna try. And that's great. This system looks much better than D2's. Ofc if there's still some uniqueness in late-game.
yes it is a build. the set of skills you use IS a build. build = set of skills you are using/have equipped. are you for real man? or just epic trolling me? in D2 if you were a meteorb sorc and used meteor most of the time and then switched to using orb, are those two sepparate builds? thats what you saying, your talking out your ass man.
in D2 you can now respec with zero penalty, all you need is the den of evil quest or if you used them all up buy a token from someone they are insanely cheap or farm them they are very easy to get. using a quest or some token doesnt somehow make it infinitely better, its just an illusion of permanancy because i got like 30 of those tokens very quickly after the patch came out and i was respeccing like a mad man.
EDIT: i get the switching before a boss. i plan on having a farming build and a boss build and ill be switching between them before act bosses obviously. this is a good thing, gimping your character by making him not able to switch doesnt make the game more enjoyable. and adding a cost wouldnt change anything at all. not even a little
You are the one who says that if you are meteorb sorc, and u use mostly orb, but then switch to meteor for cold-immunes, u get totally new build. It's not, it's just different rotation.
In D2 they couldn't solve the problem w/o rebuilding whole skill-system. So they just let reskill almost freely to make more skills viable (during leveling) and let experiment. It has nothing to do with completely new skill-system in D3.
i was making fun of you. lawl.
you dont know what a build is. you think the freedom to switch means theres no such thing as a build. hate to break it to you but your way of thinking is wrong, its not your opinion of it, its just 100% wrong. D2 had a flawed permanancy to builds and after playing it for so long it brain washed people into thinking permanancy was actually a good thing when it wasnt. you need to detox from the old D2 ways and open your mind to the evolution that is D3. or dont. ill enjoy it enough for the both of us and every other person who doesnt buy it because of flawed logic
30 passive and active skills divided amongst 3 skill trees
Synergies promoting additional damage for other spells
99 skill pointss from levels plus 4 per difficulty gives 111 to allocate
to obtain all thirty skills, you are left with 81 points, which can be used to max out 4 abilities (rounded)
So you get 4 fully powered abilities (skill maxed), with a few 1 (or low) point wonders
DIII Wizard:
16 passive skills, which allow you to choose 3
25 active skills, which allow you to choose 6 fully
each of the 25 skills can be augmented 6 different ways, changing them more significantly than "synergies" from DII, sometimes changing how the skill even functions
So where is the lack of customization? you have more skills (16+25=41 in DIII vs 30 in DII), that can be altered more significantly than DII offered
U just can't understand the difference between build and rotation. Have u played WOW? Every build has like ~20 skills. But usually u use only ~8 of them in every different situation (like boss fight, trash fight, PVP). So those ~8 skills are your skill-rotation (it also includes the priority of each).
played wow for 3 years. but guess what. this isnt wow and the TALENT/skill system in WoW is absolutely nothing like the systems in d2 OR d3. comparison fail.
great analogy, simple yet effective. winning. +1