What happens when you have 124% Gold Find - Video

  • #1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp0yklVZMcM

    Enjoy :)
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  • #2
    10k gold in 40 minutes. not bad. i for one will stack a lot more GF then MF to max out artisans quick and use it to buy uber loot on the GAH.
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #3
    Agree. I think GF wins over MF by a long run.
    Check out my Diablo 3 videos! --> http://www.youtube.com/Gr1mTV
  • #4
    It's a decent video. My only dislike was watching that whole thing at high-speed for nearly 5½ minutes. @_@
  • #5
    I need to add a skip button or something, but the video was just showing you i didn't cheat or anything.
    Check out my Diablo 3 videos! --> http://www.youtube.com/Gr1mTV
  • #6
    Quote from X_Gr1m_X

    Agree. I think GF wins over MF by a long run.


    although people will strongly disagree i dont think stacking only MF is a good plan because no matter how high it is it still doesnt mean your for sure going to get ANYTHING worth selling even after 1000 MF runs because the drop chances of the best gear is so low. but if you stack tons of GF after 1000 runs your guaranteed to have insane gold which will buy you awesome gear on the GAH, or sell all the gold on the RMAH then use the RMAH to buy uber loot. either way gold find wins IMO. obviously you'll want to have a bit of MF just so you have mats for crafting.

    as a side note i notcied that even gold items dont sell for much. so ppl saying that you stack MF and can sell the gear for gold is just a waste, you should salvage 100% of the gear you find and arent gonna use, because i always run out of mats before i run out of gold.
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #7
    Quote from X_Gr1m_X

    I need to add a skip button or something, but the video was just showing you i didn't cheat or anything.


    I could tell you weren't. I'm just wishing I hadn't watched it during a headache. Lesson learned. :facepalm:

    <3 anyway.
  • #8
    Sorry :'(
    Check out my Diablo 3 videos! --> http://www.youtube.com/Gr1mTV
  • #9
    makes me want to watch donnie darko... another plus for GF, in that new video about later difficulties they mention spending a fortune repairing their armor.
  • #10
    Gold find does indeed currently generate more wealth then magic find, but I am hoping mf pulls ahead when the game is released and we have legendary items in the potential loot table.
  • #11
    Quote from DerfOnTurf

    Gold find does indeed currently generate more wealth then magic find, but I am hoping mf pulls ahead when the game is released and we have legendary items in the potential loot table.


    i dont think so even in the end. gold is 100x more valuable in D3 than D2 and i think it will dominate in usefulness because of artisans repairing and the GAH. even if you had 500% mf increasing your chances to get a legendary item wont really be all that useful, finding the epic end-game legendaries will be literally like winning the lottery and someone with 0% mf pretty much has the same general chance as someone with 1000% mf when the item drop chance is like .000001%. .0001 VS. .000001 really isnt an insane difference. i mean it kinda is but isnt. either way both people could do 10,000 MF runs and still not get it.
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #12
    Then again, I think the market will probably balance it out a bit so that GF isn't better. Lets say it takes on average X hours of endgame play (MF stacked) to find a given item, and you can make Y gold per hour with endgame GF gear. Then the price of that item should be at least equal to X*Y, since that requires the equivalent amount of work for the buyer. Then you factor in the cost of repairs for whoever did the X hours of MF runs, etc. But no one sells at cost price so then you factor in the seller's profit margin. Not accounting for other factors that I haven't thought of here, a very simple formula (from a non-economist) might be something like...

    P*X*(Y+R)

    Where P is the profit margin factor and R is the average hourly running cost of a MF character in Inferno. If supply and demand are balanced then P is low, but they're not - everyone has gold, but only a lucky few have found good gear. For common gear this won't be as apparent, so for the Lesser Stick of Hitting P will be low - maybe 1.05 or 1.1. Lots of sellers = strong downward pressure on P. But Yog-Sothoth's Whispering Mask of the Opening Way only drops once every bajillion years: only one person has it and every single Witch Doctor is creaming their pants over it. That guy can basically name his price - he can set P to 1000 if someone has that many Benjamins.

    EDIT: I guess it's possible that P<1 for shitty magic items, since MF characters are going to be inundated with them. But still, if everyone's using GF then the law of the free market says that MF is where the money will be, and if everyone is using MF then it's the gold farmers who'll be raking it in. My point is that I think it'll balance out so that they're about even. [/edit]

    Makes me wonder how the economy in D3 is actually going to go... If the OP can make 10 000g in 40min at lvl 13, either endgame hourly profits could be just ridiculously high or normal mode gold farming could become a viable strategy, which would be depressing. Either way it'd drive the value of gold way waaaay down, possibly resulting in the same sort of mung economy that D2 had. Of course, what I hope is that the drop probability in the Beta has been set intentionally high, and that they're going to dial that right back come release. Anyone have any info on that?
  • #13
    The magic find will get you is more items to be salvaged. No, you arent likely to find legendaries every run, but over an hour of time, I bet 125% (or whatever it was) will produce alot more blue items. These blue items likely wont be useful, but when you salvage everything, it will be valuable (you will get some rare and legendary salvage mats too). And lots of mats will be needed for high end crafting.

    MF vs GF will all depend on the trade off costs of the salvage mats vs raw gold.
  • #14
    Quote from Argency

    Then again, I think the market will probably balance it out a bit so that GF isn't better. Lets say it takes on average X hours of endgame play (MF stacked) to find a given item.


    you already messed up with this because some people (like i have) have done 1000+ MF runs with insane MF stacked in D2 and never got any of the items we wanted. there will be no "average time it takes to get this item" because getting one of the epic drops is like winning the lottery. you cant calculate it because its too low. however with gold its ALWAYS a guarantee to get a ton if you stack tons of GF, which can be used to buy the epic gear you want from the GAH. you could argue "no one would put the best gear on the GAH they would put it on the RMAH" but a lot of people just simply wont use the RMAH or the fact that MILLIONS will be using any one GAH the chances are super high that eventually someone will put the epic gear on there for gold
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #15
    I think Argency has raised a good point even if the method isn't quite exact. This is still beta and if Blizzard thinks there's too much gold going around in it, they'll nerf the amount dropped by the time of release. Even if you don't factor that in, Blizzard will still have an incentive to keep the in-game economy roughly balanced if they want to make money from the RMAH transaction fees.

    Yet, I am encouraged that % gold find will prove useful. Just in what way exactly is yet to be determined.
  • #16
    if gold finding is easy, everyone will do it and prices will inflate to compensate. MF will be just as valuable cause you can sell your finds / salvaged mats for more gold.
  • #17
    GF vs MF is an age old choice - reliable but lesser payoff, or risky but potentially higher profits.

    However there is another important factor - bots. They wont be employed in Inferno due to extremely high difficulty (unless they use hacks), however in lesser difficulties there will be plenty of them farming gold (not sure about Hell, but Normal/Nightmare for sure). Thus driving gold and lower level items value down, while Inferno items will be more valuable.

    Its too early to judge which is better, but Inferno + MF probably will be better.
  • #18
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    Quote from Argency

    Then again, I think the market will probably balance it out a bit so that GF isn't better. Lets say it takes on average X hours of endgame play (MF stacked) to find a given item.


    you already messed up with this because some people (like i have) have done 1000+ MF runs with insane MF stacked in D2 and never got any of the items we wanted. there will be no "average time it takes to get this item" because getting one of the epic drops is like winning the lottery. you cant calculate it because its too low. however with gold its ALWAYS a guarantee to get a ton if you stack tons of GF, which can be used to buy the epic gear you want from the GAH. you could argue "no one would put the best gear on the GAH they would put it on the RMAH" but a lot of people just simply wont use the RMAH or the fact that MILLIONS will be using any one GAH the chances are super high that eventually someone will put the epic gear on there for gold


    I think you misunderstand me - when I say the "average time it takes to get an item" I mean something like this:

    -> Jadis's Argent Switch has a drop chance of 0.0000001 (or whatever). I kill one enemy every ten seconds (or whatever) in combat in Inferno. I'm in combat 30% of the time (or whatever) that I'm playing.
    -> 0.9999999^x = the probability that the item will have dropped after x monster kills. That means you need to kill just under 7000000 monsters to have a 50% chance of finding that item.
    -> That means you need to spend about 19444 hours in combat, or about 65000 hours of actual play time.

    Of course, the item isn't really worth 65000 hours because if you've got a MF character it doesn't really matter what drops you get, as long as they're good enough to sell for lots of money. So it's not the chance that you'll get any one specific item that you calculate on, it's the chance you'll get any good item, which is a fair bit higher, making the total value of the item in hours lower. Point is, you can assign a value in hours to any item or group of similarly useful items, and anyone selling good items for less than they could be making if they just had GF gear themselves is clearly an idiot.

    And my main point in my post was that because gold and items are exchangeable, it doesn't make sense for either GF or MF to be way better. If everyone thought GF was the best, everyone would get it which would flood the market with gold and make all items way more expensive. If that happened, MF would actually be way better because you could make way more gold out of it. Because of that, the two will HAVE to be roughly as good as each other, unless gold is worthless like it was in D2.
  • #19
    Quote from Argency

    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    Quote from Argency

    Then again, I think the market will probably balance it out a bit so that GF isn't better. Lets say it takes on average X hours of endgame play (MF stacked) to find a given item.


    you already messed up with this because some people (like i have) have done 1000+ MF runs with insane MF stacked in D2 and never got any of the items we wanted. there will be no "average time it takes to get this item" because getting one of the epic drops is like winning the lottery. you cant calculate it because its too low. however with gold its ALWAYS a guarantee to get a ton if you stack tons of GF, which can be used to buy the epic gear you want from the GAH. you could argue "no one would put the best gear on the GAH they would put it on the RMAH" but a lot of people just simply wont use the RMAH or the fact that MILLIONS will be using any one GAH the chances are super high that eventually someone will put the epic gear on there for gold


    I think you misunderstand me - when I say the "average time it takes to get an item" I mean something like this:

    -> Jadis's Argent Switch has a drop chance of 0.0000001 (or whatever). I kill one enemy every ten seconds (or whatever) in combat in Inferno. I'm in combat 30% of the time (or whatever) that I'm playing.
    -> 0.9999999^x = the probability that the item will have dropped after x monster kills. That means you need to kill just under 7000000 monsters to have a 50% chance of finding that item.
    -> That means you need to spend about 19444 hours in combat, or about 65000 hours of actual play time.

    Of course, the item isn't really worth 65000 hours because if you've got a MF character it doesn't really matter what drops you get, as long as they're good enough to sell for lots of money. So it's not the chance that you'll get any one specific item that you calculate on, it's the chance you'll get any good item, which is a fair bit higher, making the total value of the item in hours lower. Point is, you can assign a value in hours to any item or group of similarly useful items, and anyone selling good items for less than they could be making if they just had GF gear themselves is clearly an idiot.

    And my main point in my post was that because gold and items are exchangeable, it doesn't make sense for either GF or MF to be way better. If everyone thought GF was the best, everyone would get it which would flood the market with gold and make all items way more expensive. If that happened, MF would actually be way better because you could make way more gold out of it. Because of that, the two will HAVE to be roughly as good as each other, unless gold is worthless like it was in D2.


    even with 100 items of equal or around the same value of that insanely low drop rate. still could spend 1000 hours farming and find nothing of value
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
  • #20
    In principle, I agree. GF will be better than MF, and that's certainly what I'll be running early game, whilst I'm leveling up.

    However, we can't really know anything until the game gets released. Will the gear we get in Act 4 Normal serve us through to Act 2 Nightmare? or Act 4 Nightmare to Act 2 Hell? Can we afford to go so long with not even close to optimal gear that we get dropped? Or, will we have to be continually crafting items, buying them off the Gold Auction House, in order to progress through the game?

    I'll probably still farm gold end game as well, simply because there's more chance of finding the item I want on the Gold Auction House than there will be by it dropping from a monster. And, if I can see that, "Oh, I'll only need X amount of gold, which should take me Y hours of grinding" for a guaranteed payoff of getting a better item, I'll do that.

    It might even be the same with crafted items. Sure, you'll probably break items down and try and craft that perfect item that you want (which in itself costs a lot of gold), but if there's many close to perfect items on the auction house (which there might be, or there might not be. People might, instead of putting it on the auction house, break it down again)

    But, if instead of breaking down those items, you sell them (through either the GAH or the merchants, whichever gives more reward for time), then you're continually increasing your gold pool which can be used to buy things on the GAH.



    In the end, it all depends on the drop rates of gold and the best items, and, if one goes out of whack, and we either have too much inflation or not enough items on the Auction Houses, Blizzard will change them to a level that suits everyone.
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