Diablo 3 Targeting System Video

  • #22
    If what you're saying is true that's actually really bad. The way targeting worked in d2 was most of what kept it interesting. It's hard to remember how much time I spent shift clicking in d2 itself, because in median xl you have to shift click a crapton as the screen fills up with a horde often... But gear/build aside being able to "outplay" people in pvp was mainly decided on your ability to be quick+accurate with mobility and attacks using the mouse.

    I'm curious how directional aoe's work compared to the directional aoe (IE multishot or w/e) with the positioning of the mouse cursor. IIRC, the closer your cursor was (while shift firing) the more spread your cone/directional attack would be, and the further away, the more accurate/focused your attack would be.

    This turned out to be fairly useful in terms of hitting mobs to the front-sides with poison, slow, or focus firing down elites in a crowd at a range etc. You know, with some of the skills it won't matter much, as they auto target enemies or hit an equal area AOE anyways. Diablo 3 is much more flashy than it's preds. I mean yeah hitting someone face on with a frozen orb was 20 times more effective than scratching them with it, I have seen limited skills which work like that. I wonder if whilrwind will still lock onto a target, that'd be frustrating as hell to always get stuck following and just get slaughtered just because we have huge hitboxes lol.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #23
    If you hold shift do you still target crappily?
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #24
    Quote from Tekkiller
    Quote from Darvil
    Actualy I like it and I hate when you have to put your mouse exactly over some tiny moving monster especialy when you are a caster. Often you end up not clicking on the monster and moving close to it insted of shooting it. But the mesh can be a litle smaller it look to big in the video.
    Hold down "shift" while shooting?


    I know the existence of the shift key but I rather not use it and have my left hand free.

    Also if you account the shift key you can easily solve the problem of the OP by pressing the shift key and choosing a direction without clicking on the monster.
  • #25
    Hey guys,
    Let me clarify things

    How it works
    There are basically 2 ways of targetting 3D things in a 2D view (your screen) :
    1) put a bounding box around each unit, then test which rectangle your pointer is into
    2) draw a points cloud of the center of each unit, then surround each point with a zone as large as possible (with a max limit maybe the size of the bounding box). Each zone must contain only 1 point so that it's bound to unique unit.

    When there are few enemies, the 1st system works well, pretty much like the second.
    When there are a lot of enemies, the first system shows its limits : if 2 enemies are very close, maybe their bounding boxes are almost impossible to distinct (or only a few pixels), and you'll always target the unit in front of the other, because the other bounding box is almost entirely hidden.

    The second system solves the issue : if the center of the 2 enemies are almost identical (for example : A center is 1pixel higher than B center), then there will be 2 equally large zones, one extending to the top to target A, and one extending to the bottom to target B, even if B almost entirely hides A.

    If you prefer, system 2 is like system 1, except each bounding box is shrunk to the point that there are no bounding boxes overlapping.

    It's all about tuning
    You'll tell me "ok, sounds like system 2 works better, but the real problem here is the size of the area !".
    You would be right.
    Blizzard made the choice to extend the bounding box/area further than the limits of the graphical bounds of the creature on the screen.

    By doing this, they chose not to give an advantage to people that have extremely high precision skill with their mouse.
    In other words, they do not want Diablo to be a mouse precision contest game.
    By doing so, they emphasize the build of your character and skill sequence you're pressing, making targetting secondary.

    As said above, their already are games with no abilities, no skill sequence, no character build, no level, no progression, etc.. which are about mouse speed and precision. Blizzard manifestly does not want Diablo 3 to be one of those.

    "Despite those facts, there are still problems, sir"
    Again, you shall be right.
    There is still 1 problem I see : anticipation

    When I throw a bomb that will explode in 2 sec, and see zombies walking, I make an estimation of how much ahead will I have to throw my bombs so they detonate exactly when the zombie steps over it. (@RG : in your multiple target video, 1:13)
    Or maybe as a mage you want to teleport just ahead of somebody, not on him, etc...

    This is the only real drawback I can see from their system.

    Maybe, for skills that do not directly aim at targets (aoe skills), they should remove it ?
    Otherwise it's still not that much of a drawback regarding the benefits for the massive amount of people like me that are not FPS elites.

    At worse, it boils down to chosing the best unit that reprensent the center of the are you want to aim instead of chosing the exact point.
    I also add that, the more units on the screen, the more precise your aiming will become, and when there are few enemies, you're most likely going to use single target skills anyway, so...

    It this really a problem ?
    If so : in which exact case ? which situation ? how many units ? which type of spell ? etc... because I cannot currently figure out a real drawback.
  • #26
    Like I said in my previous post...

    Shift-click only holds position, the targeting system will still be the same while shift-clicking. Anytime the box mesh is overlapping on an enemy unit, therefore highlighting it and targeting it, the skill shot will attack the center of that targeted unit that the mesh is overlapping.
  • #27
    Quote from Gryzorz

    Maybe, for skills that do not directly aim at targets (aoe skills), they should remove it


    /agree

    If you have ever played League of Legends you know that there is an area of effect that is represented graphically by a Celtic type interlaced circle pattern that determines the area the the AoE skill will land on. This is something that I would be happy to see implemented in Diablo 3.

    Again with the single target skills I think maybe those of us that are skilled with the mouse are a bit cheated by the targeting system. For instance, If a target lets say a demon hunter is attacking you and they know by clicking her you will target the center of her character, she can easily vault away as she knows that the skill shot will be coming at a direct angle going directly toward the center.

    Now.. why is that bad? because with any other skill shot system like that of League of Legends for example, you have to time the skill shot which will be directly effected by the velocity that the enemy character is moving thus being able to plan exactly where the skill shot will hit is paramount in landing the skill itself. Forget about teleporting a little bit ahead of the target, what about shooting a skill shot that will compensate for the velocity of the said target and actually hit the mark. I can see Faster Run/Walk being a huge issue if this is not fixed:

    whats that? Im so fast if you target me dead center then the missle will miss 100% of the time... oh? my box is so big you cant help but target me dead center? well just try to compensate for my fast velocity and attack outside of my box... whats that? my box is so big that when you try to compensate for my velocity I can easily run the opposite direction to dodge it? u mad?

    The thing is with the single target skills, I am not certain that in PvP the box mesh around enemy characters is exactly like that of say a PvE unit such as the zombies or skeletons in my videos. Lets just hope Blizzard put some time into designing the box mesh of players in a PvP scenario.

    How would they do this? Well being a Game Design student this would be very easy. In any 3d game editor there are options for editing the mesh used to effect your specific unit/graphic. These box's (meshes and colliders) are used to determine how far out that the specific unit that the box is effecting should be able to be effected (how close does a thing have to be to move/attack/effect this unit).They can make the box bigger, smaller, and In most cases you can use the exact graphic model as the mesh itself. This can be done very quickly and easily.

    I can see Blizzard intentionally making the boxes for the PvE units huge and easy to target. Lets just hope that they have done something different with the PvP Meshes seeing as it is a quick fix.
  • #28
    maybe you should post it on official beta feedback forum as well,

    I cant recall seeing this issue there discussed.
  • #29
    Good video, gets the point across. However I wonder how much it matters in a game such as Diablo, being a hack 'n slash game. If 10 skeletons come at you, you don't care which 5 you blow up. Within one second they are all gone anyway. I can see you might want to kill a caster first from a distance in a group, then AoE skills matter a bit more, but for the most part we'll be spamming stuff anyway. Perhaps in PvP it makes things easier, but both parties have this.
    I shall purge this land of the shadow.
  • #30
    Quote from Jarune

    Good video, gets the point across. However I wonder how much it matters in a game such as Diablo, being a hack 'n slash game. If 10 skeletons come at you, you don't care which 5 you blow up. Within one second they are all gone anyway. I can see you might want to kill a caster first from a distance in a group, then AoE skills matter a bit more, but for the most part we'll be spamming stuff anyway. Perhaps in PvP it makes things easier, but both parties have this.


    I think you are forgetting a bunch of stuff solely based in the PvE spectrum:

    1: Being able to effectively target Summoner Units, Champions, or even Bosses.

    2: Dying because of one missed move in Inferno, or even Hardcore Modes.

    3: Having a flawed system of attack for All AoE based skills and an inaccurate skill shot system for a skill shot based game.

    The list goes on...
  • #31
    as much as i think it might be annoying when using AoE attacks, it wont hurt your killing effectiveness.

    people played the beta and were able to target single mobs, hordes of mobs, bosses that spawn minions...
    people played PvP at blizzcon and no one had any problems with targeting.

    BTW i am not saying there is no problem with targeting, i am just saying it is minor.
  • #32
    Quote from Darvil

    Quote from Tekkiller
    Quote from Darvil
    Actualy I like it and I hate when you have to put your mouse exactly over some tiny moving monster especialy when you are a caster. Often you end up not clicking on the monster and moving close to it insted of shooting it. But the mesh can be a litle smaller it look to big in the video.
    Hold down "shift" while shooting?


    I know the existence of the shift key but I rather not use it and have my left hand free.

    Also if you account the shift key you can easily solve the problem of the OP by pressing the shift key and choosing a direction without clicking on the monster.


    That is your solution? Pretty bad IMO when the alternative seems so much better.

    How about moving through tight packs of mobs?
  • #33
    i just want to say that your 2nd video you target a skelly on left side and throw grenades at it. you say it targeted the center skelly thats why so many died. if you pause the video when the center grenade goes to your target you will see that it actually went to the skelly on left that was targeted. and the reason you killed so many is grenades is an aoe. this game is not an esport where you must be 100% acurate. some mobs and characters will be moving fast and for a hack and slash game it doesnt fit to be so percise.
    Stay Gold
  • #34
    What's the point of making it NOT precise on purpose?
  • #35
    Quote from maka

    What's the point of making it NOT precise on purpose?


    This impacts the speed you go through the mobs. Less precise means a faster playing style, that Blizzard probably thinks fits better for D3. And if it is super precise, you will miss click more often. For example the Skeleton King and his huge weapon he can swing around pretty fast. What if I click it to attack, but he just moves a tiny bit I can't see with the eye. That could frustrate a player, so I can imagine them wanting to build in some kind of buffer.
    I shall purge this land of the shadow.
  • #36
    I was just playing D2.. It's the same there.. it's like 1/10 of an inch larger in D3, but it's still there in D2...


    This is my care level ||
  • #37
    Seems like they are serious about putting D3 on console
    Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
  • #38
    i know it is crazy and i am probably wrong, but maybe the targeting mesh gets smaller and smaller with each difficulty :P
  • #39
    shift clicking isn't terrible in d2. That's the real kicker.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #40
    Quote from Kodachii

    shift clicking isn't terrible in d2. That's the real kicker.

    I don't get it. Holding shift still makes me fire at the target I had my cursor on(or near) in D2 as well. I fail to see your point.
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