What we know about Blizzard
1. They make excellent games.
2. Soon is their trademark.
3. Both 1 + 2 is the reason of 3 = It takes time.
So.. When Blizzard say Q1 of 2012, they mean "as long as it takes". And being a businessman I think that they will stall it until the last week possible. Why?
They get more time to fix things and still keep it within radius of promised releasedate. Unless, they screw it up and need more time. I think they must screw up big time for pulling it out of Q3! Smaller things can be patched.
If I said something like, "My game will be out 2012" I ment Xmas 2012, if the game needed that much time. And I believe Diablo 3 need that time for fixing smaller and smaller things until they think that not even goblinblood can stain the polished surface.
What do you guys think? Wouldn't you do this if you where a giant and had a "huge" game?
Edit: Q3 = Q1, too many ppl got confused. Sorry, it was an example!
What we know about Blizzard
1. They make excellent games.
2. Soon is their trademark.
3. Both 1 + 2 is the reason of 3 = It takes time.
So.. When Blizzard say Q3 of 2012, they mean "as long as it takes". And being a businessman I think that they will stall it until the last week possible. Why?
They get more time to fix things and still keep it within radius of promised releasedate. Unless, they screw it up and need more time. I think they must screw up big time for pulling it out of Q3! Smaller things can be patched.
If I said something like, "My game will be out 2012" I ment Xmas 2012, if the game needed that much time. And I believe Diablo 3 need that time for fixing smaller and smaller things until they think that not even goblinblood can stain the polished surface.
To the topic, no I wouldn't lol, because this game has been in development too long already, way longer then any non MMO should ever take(lol infact most great MMOs take less time to make, Blizzard has been slacking off during most of that time though).
What do you guys think? Wouldn't you do this if you where a giant and had a "huge" game?
You left one out, Blizzard ignores the existance of the Diablo series. Let's be real, the only reason they are making one now, is because making sequels to a MMO fails, so Diablo is really all they have.
People won't wait around for Q3 of 2012, we know too many of the failed systems/mechanics that they are gonna have in place already(that have been finalized), so people will just buy another Diablo type game(which we know for a fact they are atleast as good as D3, if not better) to fill their treasure hunting needs, so Blizzard would be smart to not push D3 back anymore(rather there are bugs or not, after all It's a online game, they can patch it after release anyway).
"Polishing" the game to the point that most of you think is utterly pointless. Regardless of what Blizzard does, the game will be practically unplayable for the first week and will be very buggy until at least 3 months after.
Why is the game taking so long? My guess is the dev's aren't very efficient and don't love their jobs as much as they should.
Their previous, say, 5 or so closed public beta's were 5-6 months. We started in september. If you look at history that would mean a January or February release.
Now we could ask ourselves if there would be a reason for Diablo 3 to have a longer beta than those other games. I believe this won't be the case, because of Blizzards earlier statements that this would be a short and rough beta.
These points put together I think January is actually a very likely candidate for the release, closely followed by February. I hope that even the greatest of cynics can see that I came to this belief through logic, and not sheer will for it to happen =)
You trolling Zoltor or are you just bitter for some reason? I'm not sure why you'd be hanging around a D3 FAN site if you dislike the game as much as your comments indicate
Let's be real, the only reason they are making one now, is because making sequels to a MMO fails, so Diablo is really all they have.
Good thing their Next MMO isn't a sequel to WoW then I guess?
People won't wait around for Q3 of 2012
Actually Yea, yea people WILL wait around for Q3. We've waited 5 years, what's one more?
we know too many of the failed systems/mechanics that they are gonna have in place already(that have been finalized)
I love people who spew thier oppinions as gospel.
so people will just buy another Diablo type game(which we know for a fact they are atleast as good as D3, if not better) to fill their treasure hunting needs
So, why again are you in a D3 FAN site if you think there are better games out?
so Blizzard would be smart to not push D3 back anymore(rather there are bugs or not, after all It's a online game, they can patch it after release anyway).
I'm pretty sure Blizzard's a wee bit more intelligent than you in regards to product development and release cycles...
You trolling Zoltor or are you just bitter for some reason? I'm not sure why you'd be hanging around a D3 FAN site if you dislike the game as much as your comments indicate
Let's be real, the only reason they are making one now, is because making sequels to a MMO fails, so Diablo is really all they have.
Good thing their Next MMO isn't a sequel to WoW then I guess?
People won't wait around for Q3 of 2012
Actually Yea, yea people WILL wait around for Q3. We've waited 5 years, what's one more?
we know too many of the failed systems/mechanics that they are gonna have in place already(that have been finalized)
I love people who spew thier oppinions as gospel.
so people will just buy another Diablo type game(which we know for a fact they are atleast as good as D3, if not better) to fill their treasure hunting needs
So, why again are you in a D3 FAN site if you think there are better games out?
so Blizzard would be smart to not push D3 back anymore(rather there are bugs or not, after all It's a online game, they can patch it after release anyway).
I'm pretty sure Blizzard's a wee bit more intelligent than you in regards to product development and release cycles...
This Isn't opinion, this game was designed for retards that never even played a PC game before, nevermind a Diablo type game. Talk about simplified, every aspect that requires any thought at all has been removed from the game(they first abandoned the D3 development, then they removed everything but the drop system, that makes it a Diablo game).
How can you say removing stat allocation, and skill trees being a bad thing, is an opinion.
the act 1 out door maps, are an insult to map design, hopefully they are telling the truth about the later maps being better, but in anycase why are the act 1 maps such a POS sigh(lol crappy systems, supbar maps, exc, any company could make such a subpar game in 2 years, forget about 4 years or the 9ish bliz took).
Most console games are more comples.
I was exciteted for D3, but lets not lie to our selves, they butchered the hell out of D3, so the hype is long gone.
It is my belief that Blizzard wants this out the door as much as we the fans do. But that is my opinion. With that being said, I would like to point out that the game is in beta(duh). Its been given to the press, and to the public for testing/stability reasons(duh again). Shortly after the beta was released, we were told the release window they were shooting for had been moved to early 2012(triple duh). This leads me to conclude that they found an issue with how the game played for those who tested it, be it software related(code), or hardware related(actual hosting servers). We already know that they know how they want the game to play, and that the foundations are there. All that is left now is small details, runes, spell balancing, resource balancing, auction house glitches, server optimization, PR, advertising, item affixes, storyline adjustments, and maybe a few unseen things. It may even be legality issues holding them back. We may never know. But to give us a time frame that isn't far away, they would be shooting themselves in the foot to not release it then. The reason I say this is because why even give us a window at all? There was no promised release to begin with, they never usually say "such and such will be released by," so I have a good feeling(opinion) that this little nugget of information is a good bet. And I don't doubt that we'll learn something during Blizzcon that will fortify this. Maybe not a date, but something to let us know that soon is sooner than later.
Your entire rant after this comment is basically the definition of opinion.
Stat allocation, skill point removal and map design have all been discussed at length and none of them being “bad” is more than your opinion.
I am actually somewhat concerned about the way skills work, but without having actually experienced the skill system in its entirety with the rest of the game, it’s *Impossible* for either of us to know if it’s good or bad, we can simply form opinions based on the limited information we have.
If you care to discuss any of the three points in detail I’d be more than happy, but you have to accept that your opinion is not fact.
Your entire rant after this comment is basically the definition of opinion.
Stat allocation, skill point removal and map design have all been discussed at length and none of them being “bad” is more than your opinion.
I am actually somewhat concerned about the way skills work, but without having actually experienced the skill system in its entirety with the rest of the game, it’s *Impossible* for either of us to know if it’s good or bad, we can simply form opinions based on the limited information we have.
If you care to discuss any of the three points in detail I’d be more than happy, but you have to accept that your opinion is not fact.
No, it Isn't. Complexity is a good thing, especially in a "RPG type game"
Simplied BS, and linear maps are undebatebly "bad" design.
The only saving grace this game still has, is the godly drop system(to a lesser degree, the crafting system), and "possibly" the rune system(which they have been planning to screw up the rune sysem as well, by making us need to socket them, to identify them, but the system hasn't been finalized yet, so there's still some hope)
Things are only undebatable if you decide they're undebatable. Further I would like to state that Pokemon and Chrono Trigger were some of the most succesfull RPG's of all time, both of which had some quite limited customization parameters.
I'm confused as to how customization is limited in Diablo 3 as opposed to Diablo 2.
Diablo 3 has what looks to be more useful skills and a wider variety of builds. Then you add runes adding to each spell and it gives you far more options. Then in addition you add that they will add more items to the game and it should make character customization far more in depth.
I really do not understand the argument that "WE CANT SPEND SKILL POINTS OR STAT POINTS!" as saying that the customization has been ripped out of the game. If you think that, then you should believe the customization was ripped out of Diablo 2 and they messed that game up as well...
As Blizzard themselves (and several fans of the game) have said, the game itself got reduced to allocating your stats the exact same for just about every character outside of very few builds that were primarily made for fun factor. Then in addition, you put 20 skill points into any skill you wanted anyways besides something like teleport which you could just drop one skill into.
I don't really think there is anything 'simple' about the rune or skill/spell system that they have put into Diablo 3. I don't think I've ever seen a game with a more complex system actually. It just removed the 'put skill points here' every level thing and replaces it with leveling the skills as you do.
I completely understand your point Phrayed, and I agree with it. However I can't completely discard the idea that if your customization decisions are easily altered, your character may not entail that feeling of identity the characters in the previous installments had. Which could well be considered an integral part to RPG gaming.
No, it Isn't. Complexity is a good thing, especially in a "RPG type game"
Yes, it is. Complexity can be good or bad, making something complex just for the sake of making it complex doesn’t make it good. They could have made casting spells incredibly complex (press 3 buttons at 2 separate times and then click on 3 of the appropriate 6 spell resources to cast a spell for example). The example would have made casting spells way more complex (Which you said is good), but in reality it would make combat absolute crap. Even then there are a few individuals would like that idea of complex spell casting (Opinions are funny things).
Explain IN DETAIL why you are assuming complexity is good. I’d be willing to bet it isn’t actually complexity you think is good
Simplied BS, and linear maps are undebatebly "bad" design.
Unless it’s the first part of a game and you’re trying to teach the new player the basics without confusing them with incredibly sandbox maps and objects while they don’t even know how to play the game yet. Oh look, another example of complexity being bad for a game.
The only saving grace this game still has, is the godly drop system(to a lesser degree, the crafting system), and "possibly" the rune system(which they have been planning to screw up the rune sysem as well, by making us need to socket them, to identify them, but the system hasn't been finalized yet, so there's still some hope)
It’s got more than that but you seen to blinded to see it.
I'm confused as to how customization is limited in Diablo 3 as opposed to Diablo 2.
Diablo 3 has what looks to be more useful skills and a wider variety of builds. Then you add runes adding to each spell and it gives you far more options. Then in addition you add that they will add more items to the game and it should make character customization far more in depth.
I really do not understand the argument that "WE CANT SPEND SKILL POINTS OR STAT POINTS!" as saying that the customization has been ripped out of the game. If you think that, then you should believe the customization was ripped out of Diablo 2 and they messed that game up as well...
As Blizzard themselves (and several fans of the game) have said, the game itself got reduced to allocating your stats the exact same for just about every character outside of very few builds that were primarily made for fun factor. Then in addition, you put 20 skill points into any skill you wanted anyways besides something like teleport which you could just drop one skill into.
I don't really think there is anything 'simple' about the rune or skill/spell system that they have put into Diablo 3. I don't think I've ever seen a game with a more complex system actually. It just removed the 'put skill points here' every level thing and replaces it with leveling the skills as you do.
The rune system is a cop-out, without it there would literally be no customizeation at all. Also there are no builds in D3, so can we stop using that term(there's no stat allocation, and we are forced to learn X skill), on top of that, I can assure you, most people will more or less be using the same skills(maybe one different skill here, and there, but it will be pretty close to what other's use), just with a different rune in it(and with only 4 rune types, that's not a big veriety in customization at all, It's 1 out of 4 possibilities per skill).
That's the problem(and that's if we are allowed to identify the runes before placing it in a skill).
Instead of trying to fix the problems, they removed the systems completely from the game(this game would be godly with stat allocation, skill trees, and runes, but evidently they no longer desire greatness).
Right now I am going to develop a game that Zoltor would consider the best game ever.
It's a wide open world, plenty of dungeons to explore. Good combat system, great design, good graphics, excellent game play.
BUT OH THE CUSTOMIZATION.
Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, Movement Speed, Durability, Mana, Rage, Life, Armor, Defense, Health, Ice damage, Fire damage, Physical damage, Nature damage, Green poison damage, Red poison damage, Yellow poison damage, Cold damage, Extra cold damage, Damage dealt when frozen, Luck, Charisma, Resistance, Intelligence, Cooking, Regeneration.
Those are the stats you can put into. Each has an unlimited maximum and you get 3,998,127 attribute points to spend per level, with a maximum level of 2,147.
Then there will be 240 skills available that are not sorted by class. You get 700 skill points per level and no skill has a cap on it.
Customization FTW... remove anything from it and it means you've never played video games before because it would make it too simple.
I don't really understand the customization department. People argue that Diablo 2 was about customization. I'de like to argue that. Diablo 2 was about cookie cutter builds. There's nothing custom about following a specific route of choices. The gear choices weren't custom, the skill choices weren't custom, the stat points weren't custom, unless you wanted a broken character that couldn't finish hell solo. So, in actuality, Diablo 3, with what we know so far, offers far more customization than previous versions of the game. Yes you could argue there were different builds that allowed some kind of individuality, but what it came down to was did you want to be broken, or not. I prefer not to play a broken character, I don't know about you.
The rune system is a cop-out, without it there would literally be no customizeation at all. Also there are no builds in D3, so can we stop using that term(there's no stat allocation, and we are forced to learn X skill), on top of that, I can assure you, most people will more or less be using the same skills(maybe one different skill here, and there, but it will be pretty close to what other's use), just with a different rune in it(and with only 4 rune types, that's not a big veriety in customization at all, It's 1 out of 4 possibilities per skill).
Then the skill point system is a cop out. Without the skill point system in Diablo 2 there would be no customization at all.
There are no builds in Diablo 3? I don't even know how to begin to approach answering something that ridiculous. You are forced to learn X skill? So they are forcing everyone to use the same six skills with the same runes in each one? What?
OMG... there are going to be builds that people consider to be the best? I'm stunned. That has never happened in any RPG ever, has it? It certainly didn't happen in Diablo 2, did it?!
4 different possibilities for every skill, with most skills having legitimate arguments for which rune is the best in it isn't "that much customization"? That's at least four times the amount of customization that the previous title in this series had.
Instead of trying to fix the problems, they removed the systems completely from the game(this game would be godly with stat allocation, skill trees, and runes, but evidently they no longer desire greatness).
So because you could put points into six different skills instead of just picking them and because you could read on the Internet where to best put your stat points (yes, I am going to use this against you since you seem to believe everyone is going to have the same build regardless)... you think that makes or breaks the game?
This is literally one of the worst arguments I have ever read as to why Diablo 3 could possibly be a bad game.
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1. They make excellent games.
2. Soon is their trademark.
3. Both 1 + 2 is the reason of 3 = It takes time.
So.. When Blizzard say Q1 of 2012, they mean "as long as it takes". And being a businessman I think that they will stall it until the last week possible. Why?
They get more time to fix things and still keep it within radius of promised releasedate. Unless, they screw it up and need more time. I think they must screw up big time for pulling it out of Q3! Smaller things can be patched.
If I said something like, "My game will be out 2012" I ment Xmas 2012, if the game needed that much time. And I believe Diablo 3 need that time for fixing smaller and smaller things until they think that not even goblinblood can stain the polished surface.
What do you guys think? Wouldn't you do this if you where a giant and had a "huge" game?
Edit: Q3 = Q1, too many ppl got confused. Sorry, it was an example!
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
You left one out, Blizzard ignores the existance of the Diablo series. Let's be real, the only reason they are making one now, is because making sequels to a MMO fails, so Diablo is really all they have.
People won't wait around for Q3 of 2012, we know too many of the failed systems/mechanics that they are gonna have in place already(that have been finalized), so people will just buy another Diablo type game(which we know for a fact they are atleast as good as D3, if not better) to fill their treasure hunting needs, so Blizzard would be smart to not push D3 back anymore(rather there are bugs or not, after all It's a online game, they can patch it after release anyway).
Why is the game taking so long? My guess is the dev's aren't very efficient and don't love their jobs as much as they should.
Now we could ask ourselves if there would be a reason for Diablo 3 to have a longer beta than those other games. I believe this won't be the case, because of Blizzards earlier statements that this would be a short and rough beta.
These points put together I think January is actually a very likely candidate for the release, closely followed by February. I hope that even the greatest of cynics can see that I came to this belief through logic, and not sheer will for it to happen =)
Good thing their Next MMO isn't a sequel to WoW then I guess?
Actually Yea, yea people WILL wait around for Q3. We've waited 5 years, what's one more?
I love people who spew thier oppinions as gospel.
So, why again are you in a D3 FAN site if you think there are better games out?
I'm pretty sure Blizzard's a wee bit more intelligent than you in regards to product development and release cycles...
This Isn't opinion, this game was designed for retards that never even played a PC game before, nevermind a Diablo type game. Talk about simplified, every aspect that requires any thought at all has been removed from the game(they first abandoned the D3 development, then they removed everything but the drop system, that makes it a Diablo game).
How can you say removing stat allocation, and skill trees being a bad thing, is an opinion.
the act 1 out door maps, are an insult to map design, hopefully they are telling the truth about the later maps being better, but in anycase why are the act 1 maps such a POS sigh(lol crappy systems, supbar maps, exc, any company could make such a subpar game in 2 years, forget about 4 years or the 9ish bliz took).
Most console games are more comples.
I was exciteted for D3, but lets not lie to our selves, they butchered the hell out of D3, so the hype is long gone.
Your entire rant after this comment is basically the definition of opinion.
Stat allocation, skill point removal and map design have all been discussed at length and none of them being “bad” is more than your opinion.
I am actually somewhat concerned about the way skills work, but without having actually experienced the skill system in its entirety with the rest of the game, it’s *Impossible* for either of us to know if it’s good or bad, we can simply form opinions based on the limited information we have.
If you care to discuss any of the three points in detail I’d be more than happy, but you have to accept that your opinion is not fact.
No, it Isn't. Complexity is a good thing, especially in a "RPG type game"
Simplied BS, and linear maps are undebatebly "bad" design.
The only saving grace this game still has, is the godly drop system(to a lesser degree, the crafting system), and "possibly" the rune system(which they have been planning to screw up the rune sysem as well, by making us need to socket them, to identify them, but the system hasn't been finalized yet, so there's still some hope)
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
Time will tell.
Diablo 3 has what looks to be more useful skills and a wider variety of builds. Then you add runes adding to each spell and it gives you far more options. Then in addition you add that they will add more items to the game and it should make character customization far more in depth.
I really do not understand the argument that "WE CANT SPEND SKILL POINTS OR STAT POINTS!" as saying that the customization has been ripped out of the game. If you think that, then you should believe the customization was ripped out of Diablo 2 and they messed that game up as well...
As Blizzard themselves (and several fans of the game) have said, the game itself got reduced to allocating your stats the exact same for just about every character outside of very few builds that were primarily made for fun factor. Then in addition, you put 20 skill points into any skill you wanted anyways besides something like teleport which you could just drop one skill into.
I don't really think there is anything 'simple' about the rune or skill/spell system that they have put into Diablo 3. I don't think I've ever seen a game with a more complex system actually. It just removed the 'put skill points here' every level thing and replaces it with leveling the skills as you do.
Yes, it is. Complexity can be good or bad, making something complex just for the sake of making it complex doesn’t make it good. They could have made casting spells incredibly complex (press 3 buttons at 2 separate times and then click on 3 of the appropriate 6 spell resources to cast a spell for example). The example would have made casting spells way more complex (Which you said is good), but in reality it would make combat absolute crap. Even then there are a few individuals would like that idea of complex spell casting (Opinions are funny things).
Explain IN DETAIL why you are assuming complexity is good. I’d be willing to bet it isn’t actually complexity you think is good
Unless it’s the first part of a game and you’re trying to teach the new player the basics without confusing them with incredibly sandbox maps and objects while they don’t even know how to play the game yet. Oh look, another example of complexity being bad for a game.
It’s got more than that but you seen to blinded to see it.
The rune system is a cop-out, without it there would literally be no customizeation at all. Also there are no builds in D3, so can we stop using that term(there's no stat allocation, and we are forced to learn X skill), on top of that, I can assure you, most people will more or less be using the same skills(maybe one different skill here, and there, but it will be pretty close to what other's use), just with a different rune in it(and with only 4 rune types, that's not a big veriety in customization at all, It's 1 out of 4 possibilities per skill).
That's the problem(and that's if we are allowed to identify the runes before placing it in a skill).
Instead of trying to fix the problems, they removed the systems completely from the game(this game would be godly with stat allocation, skill trees, and runes, but evidently they no longer desire greatness).
It's a wide open world, plenty of dungeons to explore. Good combat system, great design, good graphics, excellent game play.
BUT OH THE CUSTOMIZATION.
Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, Movement Speed, Durability, Mana, Rage, Life, Armor, Defense, Health, Ice damage, Fire damage, Physical damage, Nature damage, Green poison damage, Red poison damage, Yellow poison damage, Cold damage, Extra cold damage, Damage dealt when frozen, Luck, Charisma, Resistance, Intelligence, Cooking, Regeneration.
Those are the stats you can put into. Each has an unlimited maximum and you get 3,998,127 attribute points to spend per level, with a maximum level of 2,147.
Then there will be 240 skills available that are not sorted by class. You get 700 skill points per level and no skill has a cap on it.
Customization FTW... remove anything from it and it means you've never played video games before because it would make it too simple.
Then the skill point system is a cop out. Without the skill point system in Diablo 2 there would be no customization at all.
There are no builds in Diablo 3? I don't even know how to begin to approach answering something that ridiculous. You are forced to learn X skill? So they are forcing everyone to use the same six skills with the same runes in each one? What?
OMG... there are going to be builds that people consider to be the best? I'm stunned. That has never happened in any RPG ever, has it? It certainly didn't happen in Diablo 2, did it?!
4 different possibilities for every skill, with most skills having legitimate arguments for which rune is the best in it isn't "that much customization"? That's at least four times the amount of customization that the previous title in this series had.
What are you babbling about sir?
So because you could put points into six different skills instead of just picking them and because you could read on the Internet where to best put your stat points (yes, I am going to use this against you since you seem to believe everyone is going to have the same build regardless)... you think that makes or breaks the game?
This is literally one of the worst arguments I have ever read as to why Diablo 3 could possibly be a bad game.