For those who do not know, you can sometimes use the dungeons themselves when fighting your enemies. This is a new mechanic introduced in Diablo 3, revealed in the first trailer back in 2008.
During the beta, we can already see a few of these: Walls (that are being held by logs) and Chandeliers (being held by a chain). It is possible to drop these on top of groups of enemies and cause damage to them (almost always lethal in the beta).
These traps do not affect the player's character at all (in the current beta build).
Now, we know why the developers wouldn't want this feature to have any effect. To prevent any form of griefing in cooperative games, and also to prevent the player from harming himself. I totally understand this decision.
However, from what I've seen so far, it "feels" really odd. I watched most streams from day 1 of the F&F beta, and all streamers found it strange too. It just doesn't make sense that huge falling blocks or pieces of metal can deal 100 damage to enemies, and yet not even scratch your char.
Now, bear with me, I'm not suggesting at all that the rocks should stun you for 5 seconds or deal 70% of your health pool, but anything would suffice, even a "dizzyness" effect for 1 second (slow?). Or a 0.5 second stun, which would hardly be a huge griefing factor (the area is also easily avoidable) and would make it slightly less strange.
How do you guys feel about this? When I saw it back in 2008, I hoped it was going to be slightly better implemented than just a "free-5-kill-button/always-press-this".
EDIT: Added a TLDR (nobody likes walls of text): better to have no interaction at all between dungeon traps and players or a minor interaction would improve the feeling of the game? Feel free to totally disagree with me, I just wanted to know how everyone feels about this.
If I vote no, I still have to answer the question, "If yes, in which way?" Me no likey.
Not needed. A big No suffices =]
Also, as a TLDR: better to have no interaction at all between dungeon traps and players or a minor interaction would improve the feeling of the game? Feel free to totally disagree with me, I just wanted to know how everyone feels about this.
For illustrative purposes (for those who haven't seen this).
I like this poll - because it touches on something that's been nagging at me about the game. PLEASE - read this sentence...
I'm very excited for this game - I love everything I've been seeing in the streams (almost) - I can barely wait to play!!!
Now that's been established... I think the gameplay lacks those subtle bits of realism. Most of the time those bits of realism in a game like this are frustrating, but that's what gives me a, again, subtle sense of being in the game. I think that they (Blizz) have went to great lengths to make the environment interactive and to entice you to interact with it. But that subtle feeling is lost, when you walk right through a chandelier being dropped on the ground - with no penalty.
I hated being stuck behind my party, while some moron stands in the doorway of a room getting owned. However frustrating that is though - it gave me a sense of realism. I think that is missing from D3 and if it were included would make an already awesome game that much more super-special-awesome-neato.
And last soap box rant - I'm finally noticing what I don't like about the graphics; the lighting on your character. I love the environments, the over-all look of the graphics. However, when your character walks into a dark room with only one torch burning on the wall - you can see you character as if he has a huge glow about him. I know that is the "fog of war" or visible cone around your character - however, it just doesn't visually sync with the beautifully created environments for me.
That is all. I'm going to go troll the thread about who got invites and how - for some amusement.
That is all. I'm going to go troll the thread about who got invites and how - for some amusement.
I strongly advise you against that
Lol - Zero! Its so much fun. I totally understand why people get so panicked when the Beta invites are announced. A buddy of mine called me yesterday and told me the good news (was working and couldn't stare at DFans.com) and I immediately went to BNet and crossed my fingers.
Lol - Zero! Its so much fun. I totally understand why people get so panicked when the Beta invites are announced. A buddy of mine called me yesterday and told me the good news (was working and couldn't stare at DFans.com) and I immediately went to BNet and crossed my fingers.
I promise I'll be nice.
If you so desperately want to do it, the official forums have plenty of people willing to cooperate with you
I understand too, it's all part of the Diablo-fever. We've had the May-conference-call Fever, we've had the August-1st-reveal Fever, we've had the pre-beta Fever, now we're all having the beta-fever, next step is the release-date Fever. After release everyone's going to have the OPness-fever.
I just wished more people talked about things like this poll instead of going crazy about whether or not the beta has started <_<
Voted no. There are plenty of areas where there are traps near champion/unique/equivalently hard monsters so really any penalty could get you killed. And thats just simply not good, especially when you have melee characters whose only option is to run up and hit the trap in order to make it fall. If there was any penalty, I'd literally never use the falling walls as a Barb or Monk. Ever.
I feel like it should definitely dmg and possibly stun the hero. The only problem is that ranged classes can trigger some these traps from a distance and therefore get out of the way. At least in early game the melee classes don't have a means of getting out of the way quickly. It could be seen as placing an unfair disadvantage to them.
If there was any penalty, I'd literally never use the falling walls as a Barb or Monk. Ever.
Wouldn't it involve an interesting decision, then?
Isn't it a still good tradeoff 95% of the time? 200 area of effect damage on 5-8 monsters, killing them in 2-3 seconds, for a 2 second 30% slow (for instance).
If there was any penalty, I'd literally never use the falling walls as a Barb or Monk. Ever.
Wouldn't it involve an interesting decision, then?
Isn't it a still good tradeoff 95% of the time? 200 area of effect damage on 5-8 monsters, killing them in 2-3 seconds, for a 2 second 30% slow (for instance).
Sure, but from what I see most people don't really even notice them until they've killed the monsters. Most traps I've seen have maybe 5, mostly less, monsters below them. And I feel like it could even seem less reasonable. Right now its 'oh, they've obviously done that for gameplay reasons' whereas if they added some puny effect, it would be 'oh, this effects me in an entirely different way than the monsters around me.'
And the main point of my last post was that the effect would only apply to Barbs and Monks, even if the trade off is worth it, that just doesn't sit well with me.
They added the destruction in to help immersion and I cheered, it looks great and is a lovely extra touch. I do really feel that they need to add some kind of repercussion to the player that gets caught by them too though.
But the problem is that for melee characters its not 'getting caught.' Its using the trap and not leaping/dashing away from it (and, most likely, the combat in the area as well).
Also, we have no idea what traps in other areas will be. Its extremely likely that there will be traps that the only 'realistic' way to punish the player for being in the area is by damaging them. Even if its a minuscule amount, I guarantee plenty of people will die as a result of them. Even if the trap doesn't land the killing blow, some griefer could simply trigger them any time they see a player in the area, and especially if that player is the tank, it could get them killed.
Sometimes I accidentally trigger environmentals because I'm clicking the crap out of everything (as you should in Diablo). I'd rather it not hurt my character under these circumstances.
I don't even see the point of these traps at all. By the time you activate it with a melee calss you could have killed those mobs. We didn't see much of the game fo course, but I already don't feel like using them.
On-topic: if anything, then a slow, I don't want to die on inferno, because I accidentally trigger one of theese.
I voted for a slow and some (MIIIINOR) damage. It kind of takes me out of the game when I see a wall collapse on my character and nothing happen to the char. Hell, maybe not damage but just forced movement out of the area of effect?
A knockback kind of thing, so that my character automatically "dodges" the damage/effect (which will keep it from killing you in a low-life clickfest) but it also shows that the environment is a factor to the character as well, and not just something to use against enemies.
whereas if they added some puny effect, it would be 'oh, this effects me in an entirely different way than the monsters around me.'
That's definitely true, and would be less immersive. But I still think it would be better than the current way it works (feels really strange).
But the problem is that for melee characters its not 'getting caught.' Its using the trap and not leaping/dashing away from it (and, most likely, the combat in the area as well).
I think the AoE isn't that big and might be avoidable. The time it takes to fall and deal dmg/slow is also quite enough for the player to move (and could be increased).
Still, some very valid points.
In the end, I don't think a 2 second slow or a 0.5 second stun would harm the player enough to gimp gameplay, but that's why I made the poll, to see the overall community feeling on this.
If we get enough votes and some very good arguments, maybe Sixen can take this to the official forums as a real coletive suggestion/feedback
I think that a small amount of damage and a short snare would be fine. If you've just activated the thing anyways, chances are a lot of the mobs around you are dead anyways, if they aren't dead, then you did it wrong and deserve some minor punishment for screwing up how to use a trap.
I think it's a little strange that all the skeletons around you are smooshed completely and you just walk away as if nothing happened.
What Barbarian or Monk can't take a little bit of damage from a trap? A few rocks on my shoulders is nothing. Is there a small chance someone will die from a trap because they set it off with low health? Probably, but that's a non-issue and is the derpy player's fault.
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The final test of the Serpent's Form takes place in "The Pit of 12 Vipers." The initiates are not told about the 13th.
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During the beta, we can already see a few of these: Walls (that are being held by logs) and Chandeliers (being held by a chain). It is possible to drop these on top of groups of enemies and cause damage to them (almost always lethal in the beta).
These traps do not affect the player's character at all (in the current beta build).
Now, we know why the developers wouldn't want this feature to have any effect. To prevent any form of griefing in cooperative games, and also to prevent the player from harming himself. I totally understand this decision.
However, from what I've seen so far, it "feels" really odd. I watched most streams from day 1 of the F&F beta, and all streamers found it strange too. It just doesn't make sense that huge falling blocks or pieces of metal can deal 100 damage to enemies, and yet not even scratch your char.
Now, bear with me, I'm not suggesting at all that the rocks should stun you for 5 seconds or deal 70% of your health pool, but anything would suffice, even a "dizzyness" effect for 1 second (slow?). Or a 0.5 second stun, which would hardly be a huge griefing factor (the area is also easily avoidable) and would make it slightly less strange.
How do you guys feel about this? When I saw it back in 2008, I hoped it was going to be slightly better implemented than just a "free-5-kill-button/always-press-this".
EDIT: Added a TLDR (nobody likes walls of text): better to have no interaction at all between dungeon traps and players or a minor interaction would improve the feeling of the game? Feel free to totally disagree with me, I just wanted to know how everyone feels about this.
-Thomas Jefferson
Also, as a TLDR: better to have no interaction at all between dungeon traps and players or a minor interaction would improve the feeling of the game? Feel free to totally disagree with me, I just wanted to know how everyone feels about this.
For illustrative purposes (for those who haven't seen this).
I'm very excited for this game - I love everything I've been seeing in the streams (almost) - I can barely wait to play!!!
Now that's been established... I think the gameplay lacks those subtle bits of realism. Most of the time those bits of realism in a game like this are frustrating, but that's what gives me a, again, subtle sense of being in the game. I think that they (Blizz) have went to great lengths to make the environment interactive and to entice you to interact with it. But that subtle feeling is lost, when you walk right through a chandelier being dropped on the ground - with no penalty.
I hated being stuck behind my party, while some moron stands in the doorway of a room getting owned. However frustrating that is though - it gave me a sense of realism. I think that is missing from D3 and if it were included would make an already awesome game that much more super-special-awesome-neato.
And last soap box rant - I'm finally noticing what I don't like about the graphics; the lighting on your character. I love the environments, the over-all look of the graphics. However, when your character walks into a dark room with only one torch burning on the wall - you can see you character as if he has a huge glow about him. I know that is the "fog of war" or visible cone around your character - however, it just doesn't visually sync with the beautifully created environments for me.
That is all. I'm going to go troll the thread about who got invites and how - for some amusement.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Lol - Zero! Its so much fun. I totally understand why people get so panicked when the Beta invites are announced. A buddy of mine called me yesterday and told me the good news (was working and couldn't stare at DFans.com) and I immediately went to BNet and crossed my fingers.
I promise I'll be nice.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I understand too, it's all part of the Diablo-fever. We've had the May-conference-call Fever, we've had the August-1st-reveal Fever, we've had the pre-beta Fever, now we're all having the beta-fever, next step is the release-date Fever. After release everyone's going to have the OPness-fever.
I just wished more people talked about things like this poll instead of going crazy about whether or not the beta has started <_<
100% agree. one hunnnndredddddd percent agree....
And I don't troll. Troll is the wrong word. I read and laugh out loud - or lol, whichever you prefer
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the news team.
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Isn't it a still good tradeoff 95% of the time? 200 area of effect damage on 5-8 monsters, killing them in 2-3 seconds, for a 2 second 30% slow (for instance).
And the main point of my last post was that the effect would only apply to Barbs and Monks, even if the trade off is worth it, that just doesn't sit well with me.
But the problem is that for melee characters its not 'getting caught.' Its using the trap and not leaping/dashing away from it (and, most likely, the combat in the area as well).
Also, we have no idea what traps in other areas will be. Its extremely likely that there will be traps that the only 'realistic' way to punish the player for being in the area is by damaging them. Even if its a minuscule amount, I guarantee plenty of people will die as a result of them. Even if the trap doesn't land the killing blow, some griefer could simply trigger them any time they see a player in the area, and especially if that player is the tank, it could get them killed.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the news team.
DiabloFans: Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Live Chat
On-topic: if anything, then a slow, I don't want to die on inferno, because I accidentally trigger one of theese.
A knockback kind of thing, so that my character automatically "dodges" the damage/effect (which will keep it from killing you in a low-life clickfest) but it also shows that the environment is a factor to the character as well, and not just something to use against enemies.
I think the AoE isn't that big and might be avoidable. The time it takes to fall and deal dmg/slow is also quite enough for the player to move (and could be increased).
Still, some very valid points.
In the end, I don't think a 2 second slow or a 0.5 second stun would harm the player enough to gimp gameplay, but that's why I made the poll, to see the overall community feeling on this.
If we get enough votes and some very good arguments, maybe Sixen can take this to the official forums as a real coletive suggestion/feedback
I think it's a little strange that all the skeletons around you are smooshed completely and you just walk away as if nothing happened.