So I don't know if Quest Rewards' been discussed before, or what everyone's opinion is on it, or what Blizzard plans to already do/have done, but I had an idea on Quest Rewards for the sake of customizing your character. We all assume that in D3, the real customization is choosing your main skills, runes, and equipment; some people think that's enough, some want more, etc. Now I know it's probably too late to add my idea, but who knows, maybe an expansion or an update later on can, if the idea is good enough. Or it may just be good discussion.
In D2, there were some quests that you didn't have to do, but should do, cause they give you +1 skills or stats or whatever, and you always knew what they were going to be. So my idea is that instead of giving you a certain predetermined reward, they give you an option to choose instead.
Example:
You killed a mook boss and retrieved an item for Joe Shmoe. You return it to him and he thanks you by giving you 3 options or so as a reward:
+x% increase to Defense
+x% increase on all resistance
+x% increase on all damage
Now you have more options to customize. Rewards can even give you stat points again, or change other things like increase potency on mantras, certain element attacks, traps (class specific things, etc), crit rating, magic find, increased resource/regen rate, more hp, attack speed, move speed, cast rate, etc. I'd imagine at least 1 or 2 at most of these quest rewarders per Act.
So what do you think? Do you wanna make love to this idea, or just like it as a friend? Are you indifferent like a stranger, or hate this idea like a mortal enemy?
I believe making you choose to go a certain way with your character is limiting player options. That's exactly why character points were removed and why, for example, talent trees in WoW were revamped just before Cataclysm. The less choice people have - the happier they usually are. Strange, but fact.
Also, there was some customization in D2 as well, like personalizing items, which I feel is a pointless but still rather unusually cool feature. :]
EDIT: Now that I read my post it's kinda hard on explaining what I mean. When Monk 1 chooses to go with the defense option and Monk 2 chooses to go with the resistances... these 2 players will forever remain with those and it's just a matter of time before some smart people figure out "resistances are best" overall, and then everyone goes resistances but is rather disappointed that there are other options he can't pick, because they're inferior. Sad.
Good example of that is skill builds in D2 where you can ONLY go one tree if you want your character to make it in Hell. If you use your other options you'll be but a weakling in the higher difficulties, although for a while your gameplay would've been cooler.
Good insight, the TED video you posted (the paradox of choice) makes me feel like I'm living in the Matrix hahah, still watching it though.
I do realize that with "choices" people will try to calculate the "best" or "optimal" option. I guess the better way to combat that is to either make the choices or general or more specific. So with the resistance idea, maybe giving options to increase a specific resistance instead of all (including physical).
I do realize the hardest part of this would be the balance issue, but the idea is to have options to optimize your "build" but not flat-out restrict you to that build, which you can argue would be impossible to do hahah
EDIT: Also, we can have it so each quest rewarder always randomly gives you different sets of choices, so every playthrough would be different, because the choices changed.
But then each playthrough, if the character received some lame random rewards, for example block value vs resistances vs dodge chance for a Wizard... Well that would be one sad Wizard. :]
What I think the majority of players will like (the majority usually never likes anything they didn't beg for for years) is simply _customization_ options. Just like the dyes Blizz added that have been successful in so many previous games. They're pretty much never a bad choice to have in your game. Other things like that could be glow effects around the characters. Like for example a warm and very faint red glow... What I mean is, for example, monks could be able to choose an element which would "guide" them on their adventures. And he can choose between the fire, air, water and earth spirits. Whichever they choose envelopes them in a thin layer of small radiant light associated with that spirit. Brings nothing to the table but is a sweet thing to have. Especially when combined with the dyes.
There can easily be things made up for the other classes as well. Just a small example right there of what I think everyone would be happy with and no one can benefit more then some other guy using it.
That just made me imagine for Barbs, giving them customization for adding more scars on their bodies hahah.
I do like visual customization like that though, but I'm still trying to think of options that would be totally balanced. You are one tough cookie hahah
So what do you think? Do you wanna make love to this idea, or just like it as a friend? Are you indifferent like a stranger, or hate this idea like a mortal enemy?
Unfortunately cookie cutters, theorycrafters and stat jugglers is why we won't have any skill points and char points. The most balanced outcome is just to make all skills at their best at all times with the same stats for all players. At that point everything that is added from an outside source will have to go through a few thousand simulations that all skills and stats already went through.
Now that I look at it from that perspective there isn't much Blizz can add at all that can be balanced out without a few days spent calculating and revamping. Kinda sad that this is one of the things WoW left as its legacy. It's also the reason PVP won't be perfectly balanced at release - they just don't want to delay the game while theorycrafting and rebalancing all skills to fit the PVP environment.
One thing I missed from D1, when playing D2, was the fixed Unique item reward for some quests.. Such as Arkains Valor, Leorics Crown etc..
If implemented in D3, these items should be better than the average items you can obtain in that area but TOO good, so you will still be able to find even better items. Then it won't have to be like: "Oh nice (or, "ahh weak"), I got the Arkains Valor quest, now I don't have to search for armor for the next 2 acts".
I wasn't saying there won't be balance in PVP. Blues did say sills will be redesigned in PVP situations to have other effects/damage output. That will bring some balance. The main point though is that this balance isn't as important as launching the game, but it will probably make it in through hotfixes and some small patches. That way (with skills doing different things) PVE is fun and PVP is balanced.
Also I wasn't arguing on any of the other points you made. Even randomization though will be strictly balanced from Blizz. :]
It's not a WoW legacy, its a result of people responding to challenge.
If something is challenging, people will find a way to 1) get it done at all, then 2) get it done with the least effort. It's human nature. We don't walk vast distances to find food or have to build things by hand anymore for this reason (unless its a hobby, which is a different subject).
Optimization is about the one thing humans do well, so of course we're going to apply that to our pastimes. I mean, hell, people had skill and damage calculators for d2. Trying to abuse a gaming system to get unanticipated results/benefits is basically as old as gaming.
why do you keep referencing WoW? reference Diablo 2 or Path of Exile, Titan Quest or any other relevant game.
Sure I would, but then... what should I reference, from say, Titan Quest? The skill trees, while a nice way to customize builds, were very flawed and there were huge balance gaps. I'd prefer examples where the company creating Diablo 3 has seen its mistakes and what it does to try and prevent them in the future. A lot of references to D2 were also made.
But, D2 borrowed some things from D1, WoW borrowed from D2 and now D3 borrows from WoW, and that's how we can follow the logic that Blizz devs are going with. :]
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Ha. Bagstone.
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In D2, there were some quests that you didn't have to do, but should do, cause they give you +1 skills or stats or whatever, and you always knew what they were going to be. So my idea is that instead of giving you a certain predetermined reward, they give you an option to choose instead.
Example:
You killed a mook boss and retrieved an item for Joe Shmoe. You return it to him and he thanks you by giving you 3 options or so as a reward:
Now you have more options to customize. Rewards can even give you stat points again, or change other things like increase potency on mantras, certain element attacks, traps (class specific things, etc), crit rating, magic find, increased resource/regen rate, more hp, attack speed, move speed, cast rate, etc. I'd imagine at least 1 or 2 at most of these quest rewarders per Act.
So what do you think? Do you wanna make love to this idea, or just like it as a friend? Are you indifferent like a stranger, or hate this idea like a mortal enemy?
Also, there was some customization in D2 as well, like personalizing items, which I feel is a pointless but still rather unusually cool feature. :]
EDIT: Now that I read my post it's kinda hard on explaining what I mean. When Monk 1 chooses to go with the defense option and Monk 2 chooses to go with the resistances... these 2 players will forever remain with those and it's just a matter of time before some smart people figure out "resistances are best" overall, and then everyone goes resistances but is rather disappointed that there are other options he can't pick, because they're inferior. Sad.
Good example of that is skill builds in D2 where you can ONLY go one tree if you want your character to make it in Hell. If you use your other options you'll be but a weakling in the higher difficulties, although for a while your gameplay would've been cooler.
Just my $0.02. I'm happy to discuss it.
Ha. Bagstone.
Good insight, the TED video you posted (the paradox of choice) makes me feel like I'm living in the Matrix hahah, still watching it though.
I do realize that with "choices" people will try to calculate the "best" or "optimal" option. I guess the better way to combat that is to either make the choices or general or more specific. So with the resistance idea, maybe giving options to increase a specific resistance instead of all (including physical).
I do realize the hardest part of this would be the balance issue, but the idea is to have options to optimize your "build" but not flat-out restrict you to that build, which you can argue would be impossible to do hahah
EDIT: Also, we can have it so each quest rewarder always randomly gives you different sets of choices, so every playthrough would be different, because the choices changed.
What I think the majority of players will like (the majority usually never likes anything they didn't beg for for years) is simply _customization_ options. Just like the dyes Blizz added that have been successful in so many previous games. They're pretty much never a bad choice to have in your game. Other things like that could be glow effects around the characters. Like for example a warm and very faint red glow... What I mean is, for example, monks could be able to choose an element which would "guide" them on their adventures. And he can choose between the fire, air, water and earth spirits. Whichever they choose envelopes them in a thin layer of small radiant light associated with that spirit. Brings nothing to the table but is a sweet thing to have. Especially when combined with the dyes.
There can easily be things made up for the other classes as well. Just a small example right there of what I think everyone would be happy with and no one can benefit more then some other guy using it.
Ha. Bagstone.
I do like visual customization like that though, but I'm still trying to think of options that would be totally balanced. You are one tough cookie hahah
This wins the thread.
Now that I look at it from that perspective there isn't much Blizz can add at all that can be balanced out without a few days spent calculating and revamping. Kinda sad that this is one of the things WoW left as its legacy. It's also the reason PVP won't be perfectly balanced at release - they just don't want to delay the game while theorycrafting and rebalancing all skills to fit the PVP environment.
Ha. Bagstone.
If implemented in D3, these items should be better than the average items you can obtain in that area but TOO good, so you will still be able to find even better items. Then it won't have to be like: "Oh nice (or, "ahh weak"), I got the Arkains Valor quest, now I don't have to search for armor for the next 2 acts".
Also I wasn't arguing on any of the other points you made. Even randomization though will be strictly balanced from Blizz. :]
Ha. Bagstone.
If something is challenging, people will find a way to 1) get it done at all, then 2) get it done with the least effort. It's human nature. We don't walk vast distances to find food or have to build things by hand anymore for this reason (unless its a hobby, which is a different subject).
Optimization is about the one thing humans do well, so of course we're going to apply that to our pastimes. I mean, hell, people had skill and damage calculators for d2. Trying to abuse a gaming system to get unanticipated results/benefits is basically as old as gaming.
But, D2 borrowed some things from D1, WoW borrowed from D2 and now D3 borrows from WoW, and that's how we can follow the logic that Blizz devs are going with. :]
Ha. Bagstone.