I was just playing around with something similar this morning, looking at healing capacity of Crus. They can heal as well as a monk. They provide crap for mitigation, however wbich makes them completely inferior in survival dept.
Healing is fine. Neutered buffs, lack of mitigation for party, and cc resist killing draw and quarter are the problem.
I've tried Salvation several times and it's crap.
You need to BLOCK massively to provide any decent healing. And half of mobs will attack the wizard actually in this group (and with more party members it's worse). So i have big doubts about that. It's not impossible, just not worth it
Healing is fine? 60k/sec is all healing they can make.
More like 500k per sec for max heal zcrus on live (if you include shields).
I'd call that fine and within the realm of what a monk heals. With 0 mitigation, however, it's not in the same ballpark. Even 500k is more like 15% of monk heals when you take into consideration the mit bonus disparity.
And no, the zcrus healing is not through Salvation. After looking closer, the build I ran to conclude crus healing is around 500k per sec is actually very different than the linked build, although it shares a fair bit of gear and skills.
Max CDR (70+ pre gogok), Roland 6, zodiac, golden flense in cube.
Freydehr makes Condemn (no attack turn) into a wrath dump.
Assuming one activation per second (and it is more frequent than that) and 150 wrath spent per second (between Sweep at 5 APS, and Condemn at 2 activations per second) Laws of Hope Faith's Reward heals party for 10k (regen) 124k (shield) and 150k (1k x 150 wrath) per second (total 284k per second). Consecration is an additional 50k per second.
This adds up to 334k per second. Not the 500k I alleged, but I figured there would be some way to further optimize (more wrath gen/dump, some weapon or shield to add healing?)
Max CDR (70+ pre gogok), Roland 6, zodiac, golden flense in cube.
Freydehr makes Condemn (no attack turn) into a wrath dump.
Assuming one activation per second (and it is more frequent than that) and 150 wrath spent per second (between Sweep at 5 APS, and Condemn at 2 activations per second) Laws of Hope Faith's Reward heals party for 10k (regen) 124k (shield) and 150k (1k x 150 wrath) per second (total 284k per second). Consecration is an additional 50k per second.
This adds up to 334k per second. Not the 500k I alleged, but I figured there would be some way to further optimize (more wrath gen/dump, some weapon or shield to add healing?)
What 124k SHIELD are you talking about? Also, even if you dump 150 wrath in 1 second, how you are supposed to replenish 150 wrath within 1 second? Especially without density.
124k shield is baseline Laws of Hope activation (all runes).
Healing is worse vs single target but still doable, and still well over 200k per second once wrath enough to continue sweep spam. I could sweep spam vs 2 targets but prob not 1 with my testing setup (which happens to have a fair amt of RCR - apparently both good and bad for this heal set up). 5.0 APS is still achievable with Flense worn, allowing a free weapon/shield cube which can help with wrath gen solutions.
124k shield is baseline Laws of Hope activation (all runes).
Healing is worse vs single target but still doable, and still well over 200k per second once wrath enough to continue sweep spam. I could sweep spam vs 2 targets but prob not 1 with my testing setup (which happens to have a fair amt of RCR - apparently both good and bad for this heal set up). 5.0 APS is still achievable with Flense worn, allowing a free weapon/shield cube which can help with wrath gen solutions.
hah. That's not recovery. That's just a small shield and it cannot calculated into life per sec. You do not "heal" with it.
have you actually tried it in game?
Shields are effective sustain. What they lack in healing power, they can make up in EHP, since they land on top of life pool. But, that's just my opinion and experience with shields on other classes. As long as shields are paired with life healing they are nearly as effective as the raw healing overall. They should not be dismissed.
All I'm saying is that crusader can heal just fine in terms oh LPS (including shielding). It's their OTHER problems and nerfs that make them ineffective. If sader could heal for 1k LPS, they STILL would not be viable in a 2+2 meta.
Support Zsader Draw & Quarter Critlaw Judgment still works in 4-man. It runs well in pubs because it doesn't die and provides nems, pulls/drags mobs and buffs the DPS. in runs GR80-85+. I've gone up to 90 with it, though zbarb is better for IP.
Roland Sweep is also supportive in the sense that it is treated as the support and can bring nems. It does provide pulling & temporary stunlock with IAS buff as well, while piling on a lot of AOE damage. I will sometimes switch to this when my pub DPS teammates can't put out enough damage.
I use both of these builds in 4-man 80-85+ and laddered with the Roland around 200th this current season (S7). It's not as strong as LoN but a lot of players are turned off by LoN.
I would recommend these to any sader fan who:
Wants to level fast in 4-mans and needs drops on their sader
Doesn't want to play cookie-cutter/LoN
Can tolerate/enjoy playing support and is good in team play
Edit: You can make a tank sader as well, and does work but mainly in trivial/farm content. If I throw Ess of Johan on my zsader, it works good enough to run pub 70-75s as the main pull-tank. As long as the DPS still know to gear tough, you can get these runs done.
Is support crusader viable or totally not in 2.4.2 ?
100% dead.
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
sad i hoped that it will be nice way to gear mysef to ancient build
Is that because he cant pull mobs or why?
Crusaders cant heal anymore, that's why.
It's less their lack of healing, and more their neutered buffs and horse pull (cc resist changes).
I was reading the updated cc resist description (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/gameplay/game-difficulty#monster-resistances) and Draw and Quarter is not consistent.
Supposedly...
1. Cc resist max is 95%.
2. Cc resist ticks down 10% per second when no cc is applied.
3. Knockbacks only land if cc resist is below 65%.
This leads one to expect a maximum decay time of 3-4 seconds between sucessive knockbacks (ramp to 95% then 30+% decay over 3+ seconds).
However, the wait is 10 seconds after Draw and Quartering a monster. Something is wrong.
And what about this option?
And the hero
http://eu.battle.net/d3/ru/profile/xndel-2821/hero/83239432
I was just playing around with something similar this morning, looking at healing capacity of Crus. They can heal as well as a monk. They provide crap for mitigation, however wbich makes them completely inferior in survival dept.
Healing is fine. Neutered buffs, lack of mitigation for party, and cc resist killing draw and quarter are the problem.
Healing is fine? 60k/sec is all healing they can make. And how much is monk healing?
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
I've tried Salvation several times and it's crap.
You need to BLOCK massively to provide any decent healing. And half of mobs will attack the wizard actually in this group (and with more party members it's worse). So i have big doubts about that. It's not impossible, just not worth it
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
I'd call that fine and within the realm of what a monk heals. With 0 mitigation, however, it's not in the same ballpark. Even 500k is more like 15% of monk heals when you take into consideration the mit bonus disparity.
And no, the zcrus healing is not through Salvation. After looking closer, the build I ran to conclude crus healing is around 500k per sec is actually very different than the linked build, although it shares a fair bit of gear and skills.
500k sec? Can you tell me where such healing comes from? What shields?
I specifically tried Salvation again yesterday and it's comletely junk. I can't even heal myself on t13 in a huge pack of spiders.
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
Max CDR (70+ pre gogok), Roland 6, zodiac, golden flense in cube.
Freydehr makes Condemn (no attack turn) into a wrath dump.
Assuming one activation per second (and it is more frequent than that) and 150 wrath spent per second (between Sweep at 5 APS, and Condemn at 2 activations per second) Laws of Hope Faith's Reward heals party for 10k (regen) 124k (shield) and 150k (1k x 150 wrath) per second (total 284k per second). Consecration is an additional 50k per second.
This adds up to 334k per second. Not the 500k I alleged, but I figured there would be some way to further optimize (more wrath gen/dump, some weapon or shield to add healing?)
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
124k shield is baseline Laws of Hope activation (all runes).
Healing is worse vs single target but still doable, and still well over 200k per second once wrath enough to continue sweep spam. I could sweep spam vs 2 targets but prob not 1 with my testing setup (which happens to have a fair amt of RCR - apparently both good and bad for this heal set up). 5.0 APS is still achievable with Flense worn, allowing a free weapon/shield cube which can help with wrath gen solutions.
have you actually tried it in game?
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
Shields are effective sustain. What they lack in healing power, they can make up in EHP, since they land on top of life pool. But, that's just my opinion and experience with shields on other classes. As long as shields are paired with life healing they are nearly as effective as the raw healing overall. They should not be dismissed.
All I'm saying is that crusader can heal just fine in terms oh LPS (including shielding). It's their OTHER problems and nerfs that make them ineffective. If sader could heal for 1k LPS, they STILL would not be viable in a 2+2 meta.
Support Zsader Draw & Quarter Critlaw Judgment still works in 4-man. It runs well in pubs because it doesn't die and provides nems, pulls/drags mobs and buffs the DPS. in runs GR80-85+. I've gone up to 90 with it, though zbarb is better for IP.
Roland Sweep is also supportive in the sense that it is treated as the support and can bring nems. It does provide pulling & temporary stunlock with IAS buff as well, while piling on a lot of AOE damage. I will sometimes switch to this when my pub DPS teammates can't put out enough damage.
I use both of these builds in 4-man 80-85+ and laddered with the Roland around 200th this current season (S7). It's not as strong as LoN but a lot of players are turned off by LoN.
I would recommend these to any sader fan who:
Edit: You can make a tank sader as well, and does work but mainly in trivial/farm content. If I throw Ess of Johan on my zsader, it works good enough to run pub 70-75s as the main pull-tank. As long as the DPS still know to gear tough, you can get these runs done.