I wrote about this today on my Gold Blog and wanted to continue the discussion here.
Diablo 3 is doomed to repeat the disastrous events of the Diablo 2 economy. Why? Because items have no depreciation in value over time. Unless new players enter the game (ponzi scheme), there is no way to counter endlessly increasing supply of items and gear.
I was super excited about artisans until I read that they will be account bound. Once someone levels out their artisans and builds the items they need, EVERYTHING they farm becomes oversupply for the auction house to absorb. If we were required and motivated to level multiple characters with artisans (think specialties) then it would have been perfect for protecting the Diablo 3 economy. Instead we have a ponzi scheme on our hands.
The auction house is being bastardized and ruined in the name of single player mode. The auction house could have been a necessary part of the game instead of an option. Due to this mindset we are doomed to have a ponzi scheme instead of a free market.
Interesting point. However, we still don't know the quantities of crafting mats needed for crafting high-end gear. Otherwise I agree. And damn, didn't know that the artisans were account shared.
I thought the beta said artisans WERE'NT shared on toons? Also what about expansion packs? That completely drops the value of every old item in the game.
I can't remember where but I saw a pic of the cost to socket an item and it was HUGE. If repair costs, socket costs, and costs to craft are very large ammounts of gold then there will be depreciation of gold. The key isn't depreciation though since from the first second the game is out the ammount of items will increase. The key is the rarity of VERY good items. This makes it so that making the best toon possible may be unatainable except for the few who play/pay a rediculous ammount.
I find it baffling the number of doomsayers who get on these boards and preach that feature X in a game they have yet to even play is going to be a complete failure. Even if you just state it as opinion its just one of many bitchy opinions adding to the general noise.
I have this wonderful idea.... Lets wait until the game's been released and we've played it for awhile to start making these gloon-&-doom judgements. Honestly, you state this prediction as fact, and you are at best making a wild guess. I'm predicitng that there is some mechanic already in place in game to manage the economy, both with gold and items. If there isn't one at release I'm going to make another educated prediction and say that Bliz will patch in something to do so.
Why don't you take a Prozac and relax. I'm sure the sky won't fall, and if it does they can always patch in a new sky.
Hi guys! Long time lurker, first time poster here.
The author of this topic is actually a troll. If you look around other diablo 3 fansites, you will find that he's copied the exact same topic in their forums.
I assume this is done to provoke people, and to make them visit his blog (which is a d3 gold farming guide... I know, right?).
My point here is, don't let me stop the discussion, but don't click on his link. It will generate him more ad revenue, and encourage further troll posts.
Ahhhh... A Troll Gone Fishin... Whats worse is he caught me - I fell for it and bit.
Don't know if the OP is a troll (didn't go to his blog), but you gotta think about it. It's not an impossible scenario. On the other hand, as I said, we don't know about high-end item crafting and the mats for them. If D3 will keep D2's drop chance system, as Chud123 said, we could be farming for mats for an item for months. Just for a moment, imagine that we have crafting in D2. And the item you want to craft, one of the best items in the game, requires mats that you can get by salvaging 5 Windforces (5xessence of the wind lol) and 2 Natalya's Marks (2xHatred Seed) and 2 billion gold..and a Jah rune. We'll just have to wait and see ^^
I must be getting old.. Troll's are so easty to sniff out nowadays.
Vague arguements, no proof, big bad scary words thrown around with out any reaspning behind why..
Any way, on the actual topic of item depreciation, there will be constant updates to the item data base. What EVERY person who has made topics like these (who aren't just trolling) is missing is that new items will be introduced into the game. In DL content, in expansions, there will be new / better items.
Blizzard has said this (There is a post about how they will give the community ample notice, about 3 months, before they make any big changes) so this will take care of the lack of TOP end item depreciation.
The way I look at it is this: The rarest of the rare items will be SUPER expensive for a long time. Probably around a year. Then we will start seeing downladable updates that include new items, that will start to phase out the top end items (they won't be worthless, like WoW tiers are, just not the absolute best) and then the new stuff will take its place.
I completely disagree with this. Videogame economies are fundamentally different from real world economies, even other game economies such as Magic: The Gathering. The reason is because every time you play a loot-centered videogame, you expect to find loot. If you didn't, it wouldn't be a fun game to play. In your post, you propose a zero-sum game where loot wears out and gold is spent as fast as you can find it. I think that would be a terrible game. If every time you play a game, you're as likely to lose loot as you are to find it, the game would get very frustrating very quickly.
A collectible card game economy (ie M:TG) relies on having a limited number of "awesome" cards. The game developer can strictly control the number of cards in circulation, because they have to physically print each card. This doesn't work in a game like D3 where one player may farm Baal 10 times, and another player may farm Baal 1,000 times. Therefore, an online game has an inherently inflationary economy (all items depreciate over time), no matter how you slice it. Even if an item is so rare or difficult to craft that it takes months to get one, the total number of copies of that item will only increase over time. (it would REALLY suck if an item that takes months to craft had a limited lifespan)
If in-game depreciation is unavoidable, how can a gameworld possibly have a healthy economy? By introducing the "treadmill" of new loot, that's how. By constantly introducing new content and new gear to the game, people will continue buying and selling loot even though any given piece of loot depreciates rapidly over time. Not coincidentally, this is the same way that a non-subscription game makes money for its developer. (Diablo III already has two expansions under development, before the first game is even released!)
You might argue that videogame economies are a "scam" because purchasing videogame loot is a guaranteed loss on investment. Unlike buying a valuable Magic card, baseball card, or piece of real estate, there is a near-zero chance that you could re-sell Diablo gear for a profit. However, people are perfectly willing to spend big money on items like televisions, computers, and cars that are also 99.9% guaranteed loss of investment. People who spend real world money on virtual items know that they are buying an inherently depreciative commodity. They are willing to spend the money nevertheless, and that is just as legitimate as buying a new TV.
Maybe I just care about the direction the game is going.
Sorry if you consider that trolling. As one commented mentioned it's a very real possibility that diablo 3 is headed. Into the same quagmire ad diablo 2.
I completely disagree with this. Videogame economies are fundamentally different from real world economies, even other game economies such as Magic: The Gathering. The reason is because every time you play a loot-centered videogame, you expect to find loot. If you didn't, it wouldn't be a fun game to play. In your post, you propose a zero-sum game where loot wears out and gold is spent as fast as you can find it. I think that would be a terrible game. If every time you play a game, you're as likely to lose loot as you are to find it, the game would get very frustrating very quickly.
A collectible card game economy (ie M:TG) relies on having a limited number of "awesome" cards. The game developer can strictly control the number of cards in circulation, because they have to physically print each card. This doesn't work in a game like D3 where one player may farm Baal 10 times, and another player may farm Baal 1,000 times. Therefore, an online game has an inherently inflationary economy (all items depreciate over time), no matter how you slice it. Even if an item is so rare or difficult to craft that it takes months to get one, the total number of copies of that item will only increase over time. (it would REALLY suck if an item that takes months to craft had a limited lifespan)
If in-game depreciation is unavoidable, how can a gameworld possibly have a healthy economy? By introducing the "treadmill" of new loot, that's how. By constantly introducing new content and new gear to the game, people will continue buying and selling loot even though any given piece of loot depreciates rapidly over time. Not coincidentally, this is the same way that a non-subscription game makes money for its developer. (Diablo III already has two expansions under development, before the first game is even released!)
You might argue that videogame economies are a "scam" because purchasing videogame loot is a guaranteed loss on investment. Unlike buying a valuable Magic card, baseball card, or piece of real estate, there is a near-zero chance that you could re-sell Diablo gear for a profit. However, people are perfectly willing to spend big money on items like televisions, computers, and cars that are also 99.9% guaranteed loss of investment. People who spend real world money on virtual items know that they are buying an inherently depreciative commodity. They are willing to spend the money nevertheless, and that is just as legitimate as buying a new TV.
I disagree. Real life economy is based on a treadmi because things you buy have a shelf life and limited quantity. Diablo 3 is shaping up to have neither. Content patches and expansions are therefore the only answer.
I've seen more flaming here than in the majority of the other threads of the whole forums for a while. So I'll lock this to save everyone from being warned.
Diablo 3 is doomed to repeat the disastrous events of the Diablo 2 economy. Why? Because items have no depreciation in value over time. Unless new players enter the game (ponzi scheme), there is no way to counter endlessly increasing supply of items and gear.
I was super excited about artisans until I read that they will be account bound. Once someone levels out their artisans and builds the items they need, EVERYTHING they farm becomes oversupply for the auction house to absorb. If we were required and motivated to level multiple characters with artisans (think specialties) then it would have been perfect for protecting the Diablo 3 economy. Instead we have a ponzi scheme on our hands.
The auction house is being bastardized and ruined in the name of single player mode. The auction house could have been a necessary part of the game instead of an option. Due to this mindset we are doomed to have a ponzi scheme instead of a free market.
Rip the auction house. It never had a chance.
I have this wonderful idea.... Lets wait until the game's been released and we've played it for awhile to start making these gloon-&-doom judgements. Honestly, you state this prediction as fact, and you are at best making a wild guess. I'm predicitng that there is some mechanic already in place in game to manage the economy, both with gold and items. If there isn't one at release I'm going to make another educated prediction and say that Bliz will patch in something to do so.
Why don't you take a Prozac and relax. I'm sure the sky won't fall, and if it does they can always patch in a new sky.
Ahhhh... A Troll Gone Fishin... Whats worse is he caught me - I fell for it and bit.
Vague arguements, no proof, big bad scary words thrown around with out any reaspning behind why..
Any way, on the actual topic of item depreciation, there will be constant updates to the item data base. What EVERY person who has made topics like these (who aren't just trolling) is missing is that new items will be introduced into the game. In DL content, in expansions, there will be new / better items.
Blizzard has said this (There is a post about how they will give the community ample notice, about 3 months, before they make any big changes) so this will take care of the lack of TOP end item depreciation.
The way I look at it is this: The rarest of the rare items will be SUPER expensive for a long time. Probably around a year. Then we will start seeing downladable updates that include new items, that will start to phase out the top end items (they won't be worthless, like WoW tiers are, just not the absolute best) and then the new stuff will take its place.
A collectible card game economy (ie M:TG) relies on having a limited number of "awesome" cards. The game developer can strictly control the number of cards in circulation, because they have to physically print each card. This doesn't work in a game like D3 where one player may farm Baal 10 times, and another player may farm Baal 1,000 times. Therefore, an online game has an inherently inflationary economy (all items depreciate over time), no matter how you slice it. Even if an item is so rare or difficult to craft that it takes months to get one, the total number of copies of that item will only increase over time. (it would REALLY suck if an item that takes months to craft had a limited lifespan)
If in-game depreciation is unavoidable, how can a gameworld possibly have a healthy economy? By introducing the "treadmill" of new loot, that's how. By constantly introducing new content and new gear to the game, people will continue buying and selling loot even though any given piece of loot depreciates rapidly over time. Not coincidentally, this is the same way that a non-subscription game makes money for its developer. (Diablo III already has two expansions under development, before the first game is even released!)
You might argue that videogame economies are a "scam" because purchasing videogame loot is a guaranteed loss on investment. Unlike buying a valuable Magic card, baseball card, or piece of real estate, there is a near-zero chance that you could re-sell Diablo gear for a profit. However, people are perfectly willing to spend big money on items like televisions, computers, and cars that are also 99.9% guaranteed loss of investment. People who spend real world money on virtual items know that they are buying an inherently depreciative commodity. They are willing to spend the money nevertheless, and that is just as legitimate as buying a new TV.
Keep talking if you like (and feed ze troll, oooh my gooooooood!), but don't click the link.
Sorry if you consider that trolling. As one commented mentioned it's a very real possibility that diablo 3 is headed. Into the same quagmire ad diablo 2.
I disagree. Real life economy is based on a treadmi because things you buy have a shelf life and limited quantity. Diablo 3 is shaping up to have neither. Content patches and expansions are therefore the only answer.