So there seems to be LOTS of confusion about the new rune system. Mind you this is not set in stone and it can be changed at any time. But this is my breakdown of it and why I love it.
-You first obtain a rune. It has no way to differentiate from any other rune other than lvl. It is just a plain rune.
-Afterwards you socket said rune into a skill of your choice.
-After it is socketed it then randomizes the different types of abilities it could obtain and then you get 1 of these.
-You also gain base stats on the rune sort of like a charm
-After socketing the rune is LOCKED in the way that the stats/skill is locked in. YOU CAN STILL UNSOCKET IT.
-After unsocketing it the rune WILL keep the stats/skill it rolled. For you to trade/reuse at a later time.
The reason I love this is because it just builds upon the whole diablo world of obtaining randomized stats/loot it could be amazing or it could just be blah. That to me is more fun than just the whole oh hey throw this rune in there and it will always do this. You can farm runes and keep trying till you get the ability you desire. Ontop of that you can keep trying to get higher base stats on the rune to further the value/power of the runes you use.
Yes they removed trait points and all of that jazz. but the new rune system puts a spin on the abilities in a way I have not seen in a game before and I think it is a VERY interesting idea and I personally think it will work very well and I hope it makes it to release. It gives it tons of new twists to your skills and gameplay while not limiting you to only using 1 or two skills the entire game.
Honestly think back... Did you enjoy playing D2 and spamming the SAME SKILL for years?! Hammer Hammer Hammer... Nado Nado Nado.... Orb Orb Orb.... I personally think that was mind numbing and very veryyy vveeerrryyyy boring. This way hey tired of that same old skill? Throw a rune in there and watch how it changes and puts a new twist on it while making it even more powerful at the same time! Who needs skill points and cookie cutter builds.... This is probably one of the best ideas they have had for this game so far!
I agree the runes are a great concept but I also dislike the idea of having complete randomization, mostly on the really hard ones to find, I wouldn't mind more common items having a bit more randomization to them, nothing was more disappointing than putting together your call to arms and getting the worst roll possible. I do like the idea of the rune "skill locking", adds a element to when you use it and on what. Think of it this way also, without dupes, runes in d2 would be far less common.
I agree the runes are a great concept but I also dislike the idea of having complete randomization, mostly on the really hard ones to find, I wouldn't mind more common items having a bit more randomization to them, nothing was more disappointing than putting together your call to arms and getting the worst roll possible. I do like the idea of the rune "skill locking", adds a element to when you use it and on what. Think of it this way also, without dupes, runes in d2 would be far less common.
But wasn't it a great feeling when you rolled a 6bo like HELL YESSS. They already stated the game is a casual game but they need to have SOME aspect of it to keep people coming back and spending more time on it. This way you can continue to improve on your character in other ways than gear and have a visual orgasm every time you explore another nice roll on a rune.
Yes its understood without dupes runes would be far more rare. But this is FAR from a comparison to runes in D2. The only thing they have in common is the name.
The rarity was already stated level 1 runes will be like candy. A level 7 rune will have a more drastic affect and better stats but as far as exploring goes you can use level 1 to find the effect you like. Then move on to rolling level 7 runes and hoping you get what you want. If you don't HEY OH WELL go and sell/trade what you have and BUY what you want from someone else who got your desired roll.
There will always be the blah rune rolls but I am SURE their won't be extreme rarity differences in rune rolls. Other than the stats that go with it. So there should be no need to fear the randomization of runes its just a fun twist on their original concept.
Personally, I like the rune system as it was before.
Well the basic system didn't change its just you won't know what TYPE of rune you have until you socket it. Also the rune will only work for that one skill. I am sure their basic system will still be in place you just won't know which rune you have till its in action. I liked their old system as well but I love the new twist to it. Will give me another one of the many items I will be farming my heart out to obtain.
Imo its kind of like this. In d2 if you ever bought a unidentified pack. Or maybe just saved a bunch of items that were unided up and then went on a spree iding them and hoping you got something good. Was like opening presents on christmas. Ya you got lame socks and hand knit sweaters. But you know somewhere their is that video game you always wanted! When you unwrap that you like YESSSSS. I personally loved that basic concept and it was one of the few enjoyable concepts that D2 had over other games.
This system works, when your char is already finished, so you get some change in your playstyle due to changed skills after finding a new rune. The problem is, that if you see another player using a skill you want to try it will be very hard to find that specific rune because it´s like a slot machine, so bad luck -> you can´t just try it out for a long time. Such a system will result in massively collecting runes and a chaotically filled stash.
Isn't that the point though? The whole fun of it. I am sure it won't be as bad as your saying with the chaotically filled stash n all. Why would you just keep them all? You could sell em off as you get em if you don't get a desired ability. Same as you do with any trash gear you find.
Yes massively collecting runes to try to obtain the skills you like. But wasn't that the same as D2 with runes? Massively collecting them in order to roll runewords to your desired roll? Every game has something you will massively collect why dumb this game down even more. They already made it very bare there has to be some sort of adventure when it comes to skills instead of everyone going for the gold rune because it makes your skill do this.
The whole point of this imo is they want skills to be more like gear. Something you obtain not only through leveling but you can strengthen by obtaining runes and a hint of luck. If there is only those different color runes think of how easily obtainable they may become after time seeing as they can be unsocketed and resocketed as desired. Mine as well not have them at all because later on they will just be a trivial fee to the community and a waste of money and space on blizzards side.
Personally, I like the rune system as it was before.
ya is there anything we can choose to make us feel like our choice is important - they took out the choice for skills/traits/ and now runes.
Do they really think we cant or dont want to make choices in this game? or we just random loot monkeys?
What is difference when rune type will roll when it will drop on the ground or when it will be put into skill? Actually I like the second options ... it's giving you some surprise effect
well if it rolled when dropped on the floor you would have NO control as to what skill it would attune to. This way at least you can strengthen your favorite skill first instead of hoping that you can find the right skill AND the right roll. This personally feels like a PERFECT median. Giving you some control but still having the random aspect of the game to it.
As i understood in the information JW gave you guys.
The runes have 5 different rune costomizations. + 1 original.
when you put a lvl 1 rune into lets say, Arcane bolt. it may roll an Arcane bolt which shoots two out instead of one. but it rolls 10 more arcane damage. The thing im wondering about. if you roll another lvl 1 rune into arcane bolt. and you get the above mentioned effect. can you then roll more arcane dmg? or maybe some other stat.
thats how I understood it.
EDIT: add some minor text.
I don't think the damage effect applies/is affected by the random roll (some may not even get a damage increase such as the arcane bolt split rune). That is done by the level of the rune rolled afaik. The only portion that is truly random is the stats that are applied. Otherwise they just took their basic idea of the runes and made them into a random element. The scaling comes from the level of the rune(like how he stated a level 7 rune will have 8 split bolts instead of two from a level 1 rune). This is all speculation and its how I interpreted it. But it seems right in my eyes. I love this idea and I hope it makes it to retail!
damage was just an example :3 I love it too, all that randomness about rolling runes. Theres potential in it, some rolls could become quite rare(speculation). lets say the chance of rolling a uber lvl 7 rune of arcane void ball (just an example)is 0,1% . But as I said to xManiaCCCx, the whole randomness in the more stat/charm effect. it really sucks if it limits you from using the original skill.
thoughs?
EDIT: typo
Well both runesystems are the same afaik they just added the random rolling element instead of the set in stone runes. So either way you can either use a rune or don't if you want to keep the spell the same. But afaik there are a few rune effects that keep the spell relatively close to what it is originally and instead just gives it an additional element such as a slow effect. I don't see this as being a big enough impact on something that you would be absolutely against using runes at all. I can see not wanting to use say the sorcerers orb spell with a rune that in turn makes it into a defensive shield. But then again if they have a rune that gives it a slow effect on surrounding enemies and just changes the graphic slightly then why wouldn't you? I am sure they will have a wide enough variety of runes to change skills to favor all playstyles.
I want someone to ask Bashiok or anybody else from Blizzard about this proposed change.
I'd like Blizzard to give us some example.
I don't like the idea of completely random rune.
I'd like to have the chance to plan and build characters the way I figured them.
I'd like to set a goal and go for it, not to be forced to rely on luck or money.
But this is the real world and quite never you got what you'd like.
While I would miss being able to see what the rune will do to all your skills, i really like this idea. Especially since we are basically limited to one character of each class now, the game becomes getting a level 7 rune for all 5 variations of all the skills with good affexes. A completionalists dream.
Also, the more I thinlk about it, this system would help BIG time on my biggest problem with the changes we heard about on Monday, not having anything invested in your build. Really hope this makes release.
There is an example, search force on youtube and find his interviews, Jay gives a fine example:
Put a blank rune into magic missile,
then the rune rolls what type it is and what extra stats it will have...
example:
Blank rune -> magic missile = Obsidian rune, magic missile. -> rolls stats = 5% skill damage and 150 attack. This would make the blank rune become an Obsidian magic missile rune with 5% skill damage and 150 attack stat. and obsidian with then change your skill to what an obsidian rune would do, maybe split it so it fires 2 magic missiles instead of 1 ..
Thank you for the infos and the example.
Unfortunately being italian sometimes it's not so easy to understand concepts in english, especially if they are not witten.
As I posted above I'd prefer to know what effect a rune is going to apply to a skill before socketing it while stats could be completely random.
This way I feel like Blizzard is forcing me to trade, which probably is what they are aiming for.
I hoped to still be able to play SP-like and seems like it's less possible day by day.
My bad.
I was referring to rank 7 runes, since they said will be rare.
I would like to be able to farm/collect/upgrade even if it will take a lifetime, this way I can be sure one day I will be able to get the rune I planned for. It's a goal you work to achieve.
Random is random, you can get it today, tomorrow or never....it adds a trill but can also be really frustrating...
I guess my distaste comes from me liking SP and so I notice how changes affect my chances to play SP-like.
It's just bad news for me.
Not getting it TBH..you can still hunt your rune alone if you want.. you don't need to compete with anyone. You will use rank 4 rune until you will find your rank 5..and you will use this until you will find you rank 6 rune.. and so on.. Of course..it would be faster if you would buy it. But..I am not sure how this new system is hindering your enjoyment in single player.
Let's say I play SP-like , want to have a rank 7 multishot, farm runes up to a rank 7 and when I finally apply it it turns out to be a "reduced resource cost".....it will be so frustrating.
I just like to know that if I plan and work hard I can achieve my goal.
But that's just me, whatever the rules are I'll play with them, that's what a game is about: do your best within the rules possibly having fun along the way.
I have to say that I too would prefer the "hybrid" solution, fixed effect/random added bonus and locking.
Let's ignore that there will be probably way to wipe out rune effect..
Again.. I don't see difference.. If you are looking for specific rune...you still have 20% chance to get this rune (whenever it drops).. No matter if it will be decided when it drops or when it will be put into skill...
My issue is more about upgrading/crafting a rune than about drops.
I want a rank 7 multishot for skill X and I know I need "Obsidian" type, so I'll try to upgrade a lower rank Obsidian up to the 7th rank.
I invest time, gold and resources and eventually I got my rank 7 Obsidian rune and the powerful multishot effect applied to skill X.
Upgrading to a rank 7 "grey" rune may be quicker/cheaper since you may be able to use every "grey" rune you find, my problem with this is that when you socket this rank 7 "grey" rune in the skill X it could became a rank 7 Golden rune with "reduced resource cost" effect.
I can rinse and repeat this proceeding but, being random, I may never get my precious "Obsidian Multishot" rune. And to me repeating all the collecting/crafting/upgrading and never getting the rune I wish seems frustrating.
I prefer to know I'm working to achieve a definite goal than to work toward a random one.
To me it tastes better, but that's just me.
Edit: if a rank 7 drops I'll consider myself lucky enough and I wouldn't be picky, but if I've to "work" for it then I want to know I'll get my prize!
Yeah, I know this is hypotetical (seems there is nothing we know for sure, which is disappointing) but on Diablo3 website, in the "crafting" section about the mystic it says:
The mystic can manufacture a diverse array of scrolls, potions, runes, and charms, and can also give you the option to break down undesirable runes for a shot at one you want.
Now, charms are no more there so I think even runes could work really different.
Also in the interview what is told to us is:
the rune system is probably the only significant system that still has a significant amount of revision coming to it. So all the content isn’t changing: the different types of runes and the way you alter the skills and everything, that’s all basically staying the same.
And then everything seems to work really in a different way.
This piss me off a bit: the press conference should have been an info goldmine and all we got is some cloudy explanation about "how things may work"
I feel like their last rune system was a lot more elegant, than a system that you will never know all the abilities you could have until you spam runes into it. Also their reason for sticking on stats doesnt really make sense either, I felt like they were similar to gems, a bonus you get that you upgrade over time, but they wanted it to feel like a real item. Something that affects skills like that should be treated more like a system were you know what your going into and you can readily get the power you want, but you have to upgrade it over time. I feel like now you could want your rune effect a certain way, but you would end up taking something you dont like simply because it gives better stats, doesnt seem very fun.
I personally don't mind the rune binding to a certain skill once used. But, I would rather know the type of rune I'm using than have to gamble every time - that gamble should be in trying to attain a certain type of rune from drops and such. I know Jay said that, once a player gets to higher difficulties, they should have a feel for how the system works. But, there is still a situation where you're using a skill with a Lvl 6 crimson rune that you love and you find a Lvl 7 rune to replace it only to find out after using it that it's indigo, which is not in line with your play style. And, because you might have needed an indigo rune in a different skill, you've essentially wasted that rune. Now, I know wasted is a terrible term because a.) it still has tons of value (either for crafting, salvaging, or to sell on the AH) even if you're not going to use it and b.) you can just go back to using your Lvl 6 crimson rune, etc etc. On the other hand, in the current system, runes you don't personally need would still have that same value, but there are potential problems with AH rune hoarding if a certain color is the absolute best for a number of skills. I think there are rationales for both systems to work- there are always really viable options if you can't get the rune you want. But, it just seems like there could be more frustration than necessary with the theoretical model.
TL;DR: The thing I am most unclear on regarding the theoretical rune system after listening to the Jay Wilson interview is which of these he meant:
1. A crimson rune drops but is "grey" to a skill. You pop it in a skill, it binds to that skill and adds also bonuses
OR
2. A colorless grey rune drops. The only way to find out what color it is is to pop it into a skill, which then binds it to that skill and add bonuses.
I like the idea of unid runes that roll stats. But I would much prefer say for example [unidentified crimson rank 2 rune] as opposed to [unid random rank 2 rune]. I want to experiment with the different rune effects for all of the skills as I play. I do not want to put in 30+ unid random runes before i finally get to see all 5 rune effects per skill. Sure I could go online and see what each does, but it would be a very poor substitute to using the skill in game on demons around your level, and decide yourself using real information and experience.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"We all need mirrors to remind ourselves of who we are"
-Memento
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-You first obtain a rune. It has no way to differentiate from any other rune other than lvl. It is just a plain rune.
-Afterwards you socket said rune into a skill of your choice.
-After it is socketed it then randomizes the different types of abilities it could obtain and then you get 1 of these.
-You also gain base stats on the rune sort of like a charm
-After socketing the rune is LOCKED in the way that the stats/skill is locked in. YOU CAN STILL UNSOCKET IT.
-After unsocketing it the rune WILL keep the stats/skill it rolled. For you to trade/reuse at a later time.
The reason I love this is because it just builds upon the whole diablo world of obtaining randomized stats/loot it could be amazing or it could just be blah. That to me is more fun than just the whole oh hey throw this rune in there and it will always do this. You can farm runes and keep trying till you get the ability you desire. Ontop of that you can keep trying to get higher base stats on the rune to further the value/power of the runes you use.
Yes they removed trait points and all of that jazz. but the new rune system puts a spin on the abilities in a way I have not seen in a game before and I think it is a VERY interesting idea and I personally think it will work very well and I hope it makes it to release. It gives it tons of new twists to your skills and gameplay while not limiting you to only using 1 or two skills the entire game.
Honestly think back... Did you enjoy playing D2 and spamming the SAME SKILL for years?! Hammer Hammer Hammer... Nado Nado Nado.... Orb Orb Orb.... I personally think that was mind numbing and very veryyy vveeerrryyyy boring. This way hey tired of that same old skill? Throw a rune in there and watch how it changes and puts a new twist on it while making it even more powerful at the same time! Who needs skill points and cookie cutter builds.... This is probably one of the best ideas they have had for this game so far!
Yes its understood without dupes runes would be far more rare. But this is FAR from a comparison to runes in D2. The only thing they have in common is the name.
The rarity was already stated level 1 runes will be like candy. A level 7 rune will have a more drastic affect and better stats but as far as exploring goes you can use level 1 to find the effect you like. Then move on to rolling level 7 runes and hoping you get what you want. If you don't HEY OH WELL go and sell/trade what you have and BUY what you want from someone else who got your desired roll.
There will always be the blah rune rolls but I am SURE their won't be extreme rarity differences in rune rolls. Other than the stats that go with it. So there should be no need to fear the randomization of runes its just a fun twist on their original concept.
Imo its kind of like this. In d2 if you ever bought a unidentified pack. Or maybe just saved a bunch of items that were unided up and then went on a spree iding them and hoping you got something good. Was like opening presents on christmas. Ya you got lame socks and hand knit sweaters. But you know somewhere their is that video game you always wanted! When you unwrap that you like YESSSSS. I personally loved that basic concept and it was one of the few enjoyable concepts that D2 had over other games.
Yes massively collecting runes to try to obtain the skills you like. But wasn't that the same as D2 with runes? Massively collecting them in order to roll runewords to your desired roll? Every game has something you will massively collect why dumb this game down even more. They already made it very bare there has to be some sort of adventure when it comes to skills instead of everyone going for the gold rune because it makes your skill do this.
The whole point of this imo is they want skills to be more like gear. Something you obtain not only through leveling but you can strengthen by obtaining runes and a hint of luck. If there is only those different color runes think of how easily obtainable they may become after time seeing as they can be unsocketed and resocketed as desired. Mine as well not have them at all because later on they will just be a trivial fee to the community and a waste of money and space on blizzards side.
well if it rolled when dropped on the floor you would have NO control as to what skill it would attune to. This way at least you can strengthen your favorite skill first instead of hoping that you can find the right skill AND the right roll. This personally feels like a PERFECT median. Giving you some control but still having the random aspect of the game to it.
Well both runesystems are the same afaik they just added the random rolling element instead of the set in stone runes. So either way you can either use a rune or don't if you want to keep the spell the same. But afaik there are a few rune effects that keep the spell relatively close to what it is originally and instead just gives it an additional element such as a slow effect. I don't see this as being a big enough impact on something that you would be absolutely against using runes at all. I can see not wanting to use say the sorcerers orb spell with a rune that in turn makes it into a defensive shield. But then again if they have a rune that gives it a slow effect on surrounding enemies and just changes the graphic slightly then why wouldn't you? I am sure they will have a wide enough variety of runes to change skills to favor all playstyles.
I'd like Blizzard to give us some example.
I don't like the idea of completely random rune.
I'd like to have the chance to plan and build characters the way I figured them.
I'd like to set a goal and go for it, not to be forced to rely on luck or money.
But this is the real world and quite never you got what you'd like.
Thank you for the infos and the example.
Unfortunately being italian sometimes it's not so easy to understand concepts in english, especially if they are not witten.
As I posted above I'd prefer to know what effect a rune is going to apply to a skill before socketing it while stats could be completely random.
This way I feel like Blizzard is forcing me to trade, which probably is what they are aiming for.
I hoped to still be able to play SP-like and seems like it's less possible day by day.
My bad.
I would like to be able to farm/collect/upgrade even if it will take a lifetime, this way I can be sure one day I will be able to get the rune I planned for. It's a goal you work to achieve.
Random is random, you can get it today, tomorrow or never....it adds a trill but can also be really frustrating...
I guess my distaste comes from me liking SP and so I notice how changes affect my chances to play SP-like.
It's just bad news for me.
Let's say I play SP-like , want to have a rank 7 multishot, farm runes up to a rank 7 and when I finally apply it it turns out to be a "reduced resource cost".....it will be so frustrating.
I just like to know that if I plan and work hard I can achieve my goal.
But that's just me, whatever the rules are I'll play with them, that's what a game is about: do your best within the rules possibly having fun along the way.
I have to say that I too would prefer the "hybrid" solution, fixed effect/random added bonus and locking.
My issue is more about upgrading/crafting a rune than about drops.
I want a rank 7 multishot for skill X and I know I need "Obsidian" type, so I'll try to upgrade a lower rank Obsidian up to the 7th rank.
I invest time, gold and resources and eventually I got my rank 7 Obsidian rune and the powerful multishot effect applied to skill X.
Upgrading to a rank 7 "grey" rune may be quicker/cheaper since you may be able to use every "grey" rune you find, my problem with this is that when you socket this rank 7 "grey" rune in the skill X it could became a rank 7 Golden rune with "reduced resource cost" effect.
I can rinse and repeat this proceeding but, being random, I may never get my precious "Obsidian Multishot" rune. And to me repeating all the collecting/crafting/upgrading and never getting the rune I wish seems frustrating.
I prefer to know I'm working to achieve a definite goal than to work toward a random one.
To me it tastes better, but that's just me.
Edit: if a rank 7 drops I'll consider myself lucky enough and I wouldn't be picky, but if I've to "work" for it then I want to know I'll get my prize!
Now, charms are no more there so I think even runes could work really different.
Also in the interview what is told to us is:
And then everything seems to work really in a different way.
This piss me off a bit: the press conference should have been an info goldmine and all we got is some cloudy explanation about "how things may work"
Guess we'll have to wait and hope.
TL;DR: The thing I am most unclear on regarding the theoretical rune system after listening to the Jay Wilson interview is which of these he meant:
1. A crimson rune drops but is "grey" to a skill. You pop it in a skill, it binds to that skill and adds also bonuses
OR
2. A colorless grey rune drops. The only way to find out what color it is is to pop it into a skill, which then binds it to that skill and add bonuses.
-Memento