I think they should have an item database but under no circumstance should anyone be able to inspect my stats, traits, skills, gear or rune selections. Neither in game nor through battle.net. It's nice to know what specific items exist but if I have a nice rare circlet with random stats, I want that to be kept secret. I like to have some sense of privacy while I explore builds and combinations. If I feel at some point that I have something to share, I'll write a guide or share the info amongst friends and guildies. To have an option to inspect feels akin to walkin in the mall and seeing a pretty lady, walking up to her and lifting her shirt to inspect her bra size without ever asking. If someone wants to know what I use they can ask and I should have the right to refuse.
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The blind mind's eye replies with a sigh and a tear of contempt for those who see the world as it truly is.
Fair enough, but why play a multi-player game then? Play solo and you have all the privacy you could ever want.
Do I really have to explain that for you or maybe you will turn on that fat-filled object in your head and figure out that your statement makes as much sense as "become a hermit if you don't want people knowing how much money there is in your bank or what you had for breakfast today"?
The example viciousnugget presented is extreme but still reflects why I have a problem with this pretty well, and your suggestion is akin to "don't go to malls".
I don't have an issue sharing what I know. But when people share, they make a choice. If someone just inspects me, I didn't have a choice in the matter. If I'm going to share something I did, I'm not going to do it like that. I'll go to a website and write a proper guide with all the details and explanations of how to use it. I don't want my builds presented in any other way.
People try things LESS when there are builds out there. What happens is you have a set of cookie cutter builds and everyone flocks to them. This will happen in Diablo III inevitably, but giving an inspect feature will compound the issue since people would inspect every time they see someone being effective.
This is my biggest concern with an inspect feature. The devs are specifically designing this game so that people will develop their own character that is highly unique, customized, and as such, strong in its own right.. given they have the chance to experiment and play with different builds/playstyles. Facilitating the cookie cutter build machine with things like involuntary inspect features and full armory will land us with a vanilla WoW end-game scenario. And I for one do NOT want anything resembling that.
People over here are way too crazy. Take a god damned breather. The OP brings up a valid point, and the first thing people say is "I DON'T WANT NOOBS COPYING MY STUFF!". Okay, first of all, conceited much? And second, instead of just going into nerd rage, why not THINK BEFORE YOU TALK/WRITE, and come up with a reasonable solution? Like "Player X wants to inspect your gear, do you accept?". Potential for spamming requests? Sure. Just add a 'Permanently ignore' option. There. Matter resolved, and without pathetic nerd raging.
Nice caps and cusses, captain "Take a god damned breather." I love it when nerdragers tell people to stop nerdraging. You get an A+ for irony.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Fair enough, but why play a multi-player game then? Play solo and you have all the privacy you could ever want.
Do I really have to explain that for you or maybe you will turn on that fat-filled object in your head and figure out that your statement makes as much sense as "become a hermit if you don't want people knowing how much money there is in your bank or what you had for breakfast today"?
The example viciousnugget presented is extreme but still reflects why I have a problem with this pretty well, and your suggestion is akin to "don't go to malls".
At least, I'm glad to see I am not alone.
Are you really comparing a video game, to a BANK ACCOUNT?? Get your priorities straight. Also, resorting to insults doesn't help your argument one bit.
Fair enough, but why play a multi-player game then? Play solo and you have all the privacy you could ever want.
Do I really have to explain that for you or maybe you will turn on that fat-filled object in your head and figure out that your statement makes as much sense as "become a hermit if you don't want people knowing how much money there is in your bank or what you had for breakfast today"?
The example viciousnugget presented is extreme but still reflects why I have a problem with this pretty well, and your suggestion is akin to "don't go to malls".
At least, I'm glad to see I am not alone.
Are you really comparing a video game, to a BANK ACCOUNT?? Get your priorities straight. Also, resorting to insults doesn't help your argument one bit.
While I agree with you, I also thoroughly enjoyed the "fat-filled object in your head" section and plan to incorporate that into my vernacular of insults. I personally can see how Equinox may have become exasperated in explaining his well argued points over and over, but then again, I happen to share his opinion so I'm biased. Then again, shame on Equinox for expecting to convince anyone of anything using the most blunt and useless tool on earth: the intarnet.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Fair enough, but why play a multi-player game then? Play solo and you have all the privacy you could ever want.
Do I really have to explain that for you or maybe you will turn on that fat-filled object in your head and figure out that your statement makes as much sense as "become a hermit if you don't want people knowing how much money there is in your bank or what you had for breakfast today"?
The example viciousnugget presented is extreme but still reflects why I have a problem with this pretty well, and your suggestion is akin to "don't go to malls".
At least, I'm glad to see I am not alone.
But you dont own any of the property in game...its a little different than you bank account or your breakfast. It's all property of Blizzard so if they want to show off the gear they allow you to have I guess they can. Why are you taking offense and insulting people? If you get this mad at a discussion, you probably won't be to fun to play with when I am trying to inspect your gear infront of the stash not letting you in.....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sometimes you don't always know where you stand... until you know that you won't run away.
Laws and pieces of paper have little significance for reality.
I'm not taking offense, nor am I mad. I will kindly remind you all again that you are not Betazoids.
I've been talking in this manner for years and nobody has died. If you believe I broke a forum rule, feel free to report me; otherwise your statements don't add anything to the argument.
There are quite a few people on this forum who seem interested in playing Diablo III with me. There are many more strangers to meet in the game itself. I don't see why I should be concerned with you? I don't know you, and you seem to judge quite shallow, and you are not alone, and there will be many players I would not want to play with, as well as many players who do not want to play with me - that is life, and that is the price one pays for standing their ground.
I usually dont write much, but this topic is also important to me. I can say that im in the "equinox camp". IF the inspect feature is to be implemented in Diablo III, let it be every single gamers choice to turn it on or off. No im not the best builder out there, but the principle is: its not your right to see what im wearing or what build I have chosen. Ask if youre interested and you may get a yes....... or no
Oh and im all for an item database.
An on/off switch would be cool actually. Id go for that.
I usually dont write much, but this topic is also important to me. I can say that im in the "equinox camp". IF the inspect feature is to be implemented in Diablo III, let it be every single gamers choice to turn it on or off. No im not the best builder out there, but the principle is: its not your right to see what im wearing or what build I have chosen. Ask if youre interested and you may get a yes....... or no
Oh and im all for an item database.
An on/off switch would be cool actually. Id go for that.
It will almost certainly be either all or none, without the individual option to opt out. It would put those ignorant of the advantages of detailed knowledge of your opponent at an even greater disadvantage.
*EDIT*
On a side note, I wouldn't mind an inspect feature as long as it isn't as in depth as WoW's. Just a regular looking at that person's gear feature. Leave the traits/skills/runes/etc. to mystery.
Fair enough, but why play a multi-player game then? Play solo and you have all the privacy you could ever want.
Do I really have to explain that for you or maybe you will turn on that fat-filled object in your head and figure out that your statement makes as much sense as "become a hermit if you don't want people knowing how much money there is in your bank or what you had for breakfast today"?
The example viciousnugget presented is extreme but still reflects why I have a problem with this pretty well, and your suggestion is akin to "don't go to malls".
At least, I'm glad to see I am not alone.
But you dont own any of the property in game...its a little different than you bank account or your breakfast. It's all property of Blizzard so if they want to show off the gear they allow you to have I guess they can.
this is the key right here. You have no ownership of your game, characters, gear, or skill setups. Blizzard owns it all, so privacy is a non-issue, its all their discression, and i hope they choose to reveal it all. If not, as i said before, it wont effect me playing or not playing the game so i guess i really dont care. Perhaps inspection wont be in the game, but an online armory of all characters will be. Since you will be playing with at most 3 other people, inspection would be quite limited anyway, compared to an open game world like an MMO, where there are thousands of people online at once.
Let me start out by saying hi all, Im new here and I just finished reading this whole thread. And I must say WOW (not WoW pfft) what a good discussion. A quick intro, I like to view myself as more of a pvp oriented person and Ive played alot of rpg and fps games- i like competition.
That said, I got two points I was just itching to make reading this thread, I may get flammed I understand the dangers
1. I have to agree with Equinox for the most part, any "I can see what you got!" feature is pretty anti-customizing and anti-pvping. Since Eq already explained throughout the thread Ill keep it short and just say its sort of like playing poker with all the cards face up. True it helps you out, True a lot of terrible players would like that, But it would also make the game very very boring. Yeh theres 96 billion combos or something but you'd be surprised how fast you can dwindle that number by having access to thousands if not millions of builds and how successful they are.
2. I have to say this. But I see comparisons for DIII to Eve, WoW, D&D (did someone say this? no) but I personally think that the fairest comparison is a game Ive played for a while, came out around the same time as WoW, and if Im not mistaken involved some ex DII developers: Guild Wars. I know some of you are thinking "uh oh 'Gay Wars' again " but seriously, the core character system of GW and DIII are strikingly similar Im surprised no one else picked up on it. Ill keep the explanation short but basically skill builds are ALL about GW, like DIII Im talking billions of combinations. Now in GW, the devs, decided to constantly balance skills and NOT allow other players to view builds involuntarily in order to keep pvp competitive, ever-changing, and unpredictable-----
apparently some of the participants in this thread (for some reason this includes all the moderators???) seem to think it would be a good idea to know your Opponents:
specific skills
skill order
skill level
what armor their wearing
the armor's stats
their weapon and weapon stats
charms
rings
necklaces
stats of the last three above
Analogy: they dont want to study and just want the answers before taking the test.-- Personally, I find these type of people to be quite uncompetitive and dishonorable
If you think this is a competitive way to play, please, oh very very please do explain how its "competitive" at all..
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
@ Ophion
Basically, not everyone is as imaginative as you.
The amount of players who are less interested in making a creative build and more on a roflstomp Ipwnzu build is staggering.
Well they are going to get that information from guides if they can't inspect people with roflstomp Ipwnzu builds.
Sure, but not every player out there is going to make guides, and not all of them are going to be good.
Many fits on EVE, for instance, are total crap, and the people in question won't be able to distinguish. Same with Diablo.
On the other hand, if they observe a specific player doing well, they just have to check out that particular player and move from there, game to game.
It's like StarCraft. You see someone beat you with a funny tactic you copy it. StarCraft was never a game with a lot of options...
A good build and good gear is nothing without great execution.
You could make a sweet build, beat people up (or get yourself beat) with it for a couple weeks, and really get the hang of how things work. You'd begin to learn you're own build through trial in the arena. You may start with a really shaky build, but end up getting really used to it and perfect it with proper execution at the right times. After beating people up with it, they'd look it up, and copy it.
Little do they know, that they need a bunch of practice to really pull off what you were accomplishing with your build. After failing a few times, they'd give up, and respec.
However, this is only if the option is in the game to openly look at a characters items, skills, and traits. So even if you could look at people and copy what they are doing, you might not be able to pull off what they are doing.
That said, it doesn't make much of a difference to me to have the option in the game. I personally like to make my own builds and tend not to ever use a guide as even a reference. But I can definitely understand the concerns of others, and for the players that want to keep their success a secret. And for the better of the game, I would say that there should NOT be an option to view players builds.
Too many people would try to recreate existing builds, not try to create unique ones, that can hold a lot of success in their own right. Isn't it more enjoyable to destroy someone with your own creation rather than someone else's?
Every player is not going to make guides, but I bet that there will at least be a hundred good ones by the end of the first month. I really don't think there will be any major difference in how builds and min-maxing will be handled between D2 and D3, except the latter will have more customization and viable options.
That depends.
If DIII will be as streamline as DII (DII is horrible in the customization department), there will be many good guides. If the game is actually complicated, there won't be.
A good build and good gear is nothing without great execution.
The problem with your post is that you put the word "execution" on a Diablo forum.
Diablo is not a difficult game control wise so unless the person in question is braindead they should have no issue following the build. In fact, people who copy build are typically minmaxers and many of them are very good at copying builds and being good with them.
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The example viciousnugget presented is extreme but still reflects why I have a problem with this pretty well, and your suggestion is akin to "don't go to malls".
At least, I'm glad to see I am not alone.
/signed
This spells out my feelings on the matter.
This is my biggest concern with an inspect feature. The devs are specifically designing this game so that people will develop their own character that is highly unique, customized, and as such, strong in its own right.. given they have the chance to experiment and play with different builds/playstyles. Facilitating the cookie cutter build machine with things like involuntary inspect features and full armory will land us with a vanilla WoW end-game scenario. And I for one do NOT want anything resembling that.
Nice caps and cusses, captain "Take a god damned breather." I love it when nerdragers tell people to stop nerdraging. You get an A+ for irony.
-Thomas Jefferson
Calmer than you are.
-Thomas Jefferson
While I agree with you, I also thoroughly enjoyed the "fat-filled object in your head" section and plan to incorporate that into my vernacular of insults. I personally can see how Equinox may have become exasperated in explaining his well argued points over and over, but then again, I happen to share his opinion so I'm biased. Then again, shame on Equinox for expecting to convince anyone of anything using the most blunt and useless tool on earth: the intarnet.
-Thomas Jefferson
But you dont own any of the property in game...its a little different than you bank account or your breakfast. It's all property of Blizzard so if they want to show off the gear they allow you to have I guess they can. Why are you taking offense and insulting people? If you get this mad at a discussion, you probably won't be to fun to play with when I am trying to inspect your gear infront of the stash not letting you in.....
I'm not taking offense, nor am I mad. I will kindly remind you all again that you are not Betazoids.
I've been talking in this manner for years and nobody has died. If you believe I broke a forum rule, feel free to report me; otherwise your statements don't add anything to the argument.
There are quite a few people on this forum who seem interested in playing Diablo III with me. There are many more strangers to meet in the game itself. I don't see why I should be concerned with you? I don't know you, and you seem to judge quite shallow, and you are not alone, and there will be many players I would not want to play with, as well as many players who do not want to play with me - that is life, and that is the price one pays for standing their ground.
An on/off switch would be cool actually. Id go for that.
*EDIT*
On a side note, I wouldn't mind an inspect feature as long as it isn't as in depth as WoW's. Just a regular looking at that person's gear feature. Leave the traits/skills/runes/etc. to mystery.
this is the key right here. You have no ownership of your game, characters, gear, or skill setups. Blizzard owns it all, so privacy is a non-issue, its all their discression, and i hope they choose to reveal it all. If not, as i said before, it wont effect me playing or not playing the game so i guess i really dont care. Perhaps inspection wont be in the game, but an online armory of all characters will be. Since you will be playing with at most 3 other people, inspection would be quite limited anyway, compared to an open game world like an MMO, where there are thousands of people online at once.
That said, I got two points I was just itching to make reading this thread, I may get flammed I understand the dangers
1. I have to agree with Equinox for the most part, any "I can see what you got!" feature is pretty anti-customizing and anti-pvping. Since Eq already explained throughout the thread Ill keep it short and just say its sort of like playing poker with all the cards face up. True it helps you out, True a lot of terrible players would like that, But it would also make the game very very boring. Yeh theres 96 billion combos or something but you'd be surprised how fast you can dwindle that number by having access to thousands if not millions of builds and how successful they are.
2. I have to say this. But I see comparisons for DIII to Eve, WoW, D&D (did someone say this? no) but I personally think that the fairest comparison is a game Ive played for a while, came out around the same time as WoW, and if Im not mistaken involved some ex DII developers: Guild Wars. I know some of you are thinking "uh oh 'Gay Wars' again " but seriously, the core character system of GW and DIII are strikingly similar Im surprised no one else picked up on it. Ill keep the explanation short but basically skill builds are ALL about GW, like DIII Im talking billions of combinations. Now in GW, the devs, decided to constantly balance skills and NOT allow other players to view builds involuntarily in order to keep pvp competitive, ever-changing, and unpredictable-----
apparently some of the participants in this thread (for some reason this includes all the moderators???) seem to think it would be a good idea to know your Opponents:
specific skills
skill order
skill level
what armor their wearing
the armor's stats
their weapon and weapon stats
charms
rings
necklaces
stats of the last three above
Analogy: they dont want to study and just want the answers before taking the test.-- Personally, I find these type of people to be quite uncompetitive and dishonorable
If you think this is a competitive way to play, please, oh very very please do explain how its "competitive" at all..
Basically, not everyone is as imaginative as you.
The amount of players who are less interested in making a creative build and more on a roflstomp Ipwnzu build is staggering.
Many fits on EVE, for instance, are total crap, and the people in question won't be able to distinguish. Same with Diablo.
On the other hand, if they observe a specific player doing well, they just have to check out that particular player and move from there, game to game.
It's like StarCraft. You see someone beat you with a funny tactic you copy it. StarCraft was never a game with a lot of options...
You could make a sweet build, beat people up (or get yourself beat) with it for a couple weeks, and really get the hang of how things work. You'd begin to learn you're own build through trial in the arena. You may start with a really shaky build, but end up getting really used to it and perfect it with proper execution at the right times. After beating people up with it, they'd look it up, and copy it.
Little do they know, that they need a bunch of practice to really pull off what you were accomplishing with your build. After failing a few times, they'd give up, and respec.
However, this is only if the option is in the game to openly look at a characters items, skills, and traits. So even if you could look at people and copy what they are doing, you might not be able to pull off what they are doing.
That said, it doesn't make much of a difference to me to have the option in the game. I personally like to make my own builds and tend not to ever use a guide as even a reference. But I can definitely understand the concerns of others, and for the players that want to keep their success a secret. And for the better of the game, I would say that there should NOT be an option to view players builds.
Too many people would try to recreate existing builds, not try to create unique ones, that can hold a lot of success in their own right. Isn't it more enjoyable to destroy someone with your own creation rather than someone else's?
If DIII will be as streamline as DII (DII is horrible in the customization department), there will be many good guides. If the game is actually complicated, there won't be.
No, more like remember skilling priorities and runes maybe... that's all you need really, and it's not difficult at all.
The problem with your post is that you put the word "execution" on a Diablo forum.
Diablo is not a difficult game control wise so unless the person in question is braindead they should have no issue following the build. In fact, people who copy build are typically minmaxers and many of them are very good at copying builds and being good with them.