With Diablo 3 just around the corner, is it possible that it could be a flop?
I'm a huge fan of the Diablo series.. like everyone else in the world but it's a possibility that Diablo 3 could be Blizzard's first flop. Diablo was an instant classic, and is still playable even by todays gaming standards. Then came Diablo 2, an even bigger title then the first. But most will agree, something was lost in the translation despite being the much larger title. Diablo 2 came with countless problems in multiplayer game play. But it still manages to have a huge player base even a decade after it's release.
And now Diablo 3 seems to be a taking a new direction in almost every aspect that made the franchise what it is. Is it possible that even more will be lost in the translation again, maybe too much? Action RPG's can take many different directions in gameplay respects. It is an unperfected art form and the game seems to be taking an arcade style approach this time.
There is no doubt that the game will be bought by millions of players worldwide. But will it live up to the hype? Will Blizzard finally make a "so-so" game (a flop by Blizzard's standards)? Will it really feel like a sequel or just a new Action RPG on the market? We can only speculate until the game is released. Which could be as early as 2011 which is evident from Yahoo Games and an interview with Mike Morhaime where he says that they have a playable version of the game being tested (an Alpha). So feel free to speculate here.
While I am sure that it will be different in many ways, I have confidence that it won't flop. I am basing this on the fact that blizzard vigorously playtests all of their games prior to release the the release "when it is done" philosophy ensures a more quality product than is usually expected from a gaming company. I believe I heard a quote from blizzard that they know a game is complete when they start spending more time playing it than actually working on it. If everyone inside the company enjoys the game, it is a fairly safe bet than people outside will enjoy it as well.
No worries. I have an unhealthy, irrational confidence on Blizzard. They didn't get to where they are by chance.
While I agree it won't be a flop, much of the original blizzard developers have moved into other companies. So today's Blizzard is a completely different monster than the Blizzard of 10 years ago.
To me, definitely, D3 is losing a lot of features that i actually enjoyed in D2. (PK, open loot, stat customization, just to mention a few)
Maybe if they implement some really BIG pvp system, then it could be great. But i will never again feel that fear of getting Pk'ed in the sewers in hell HC, or better yet, killing the pk (it feels good).
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
I highlited a little something there, just in case you happened to miss it.
As for saying that D3 will easily surpass its predecessor just because it happened to D2.. I will probably wait till the game is released to make such claim.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Not saying that it will surpass D2, just saying that the game (seeing at what we already know) wont/can't be a flop.
And many arguments (mainly the ones you mentioned) are mostly invalid because we can be pretty certain that most people see those 'features' as 'flaws'.
Let me repeat, there is nothing to customize about the attributes, people will just put enough str/dex to wear gear, and everything else in vit, with the exception of one mage build that uses int.
There is nothing awesome about fighting an enemy with an entire group just to have one or two ninja mousespammers to get all the loot. Now we all get an equal share, and if you don't need an item you can always trade it.
There is nothing fun about being killed while you are just walking around playing PvE.
They ain't features, they are flaws.
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Well, it looks like you managed again. So here it is, one last time... try to stay with me, ok?
TO ME , the game needs to have stat management, TO ME , the game needs to have open loot, TO ME , the game needs to have pk, and the thrill of the hunt (and being hunted)
Those are personal reasons as why D3 wont be, TO ME , as fun as D2 was. Unless of course, blizzard adds (like i said in the very first post) a killer pvp system. I'm well aware that these are considered ''flaws'' by the majority, but those were things i enjoyed, and thus, why D3 already got me on the wrong foot.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Hunting people in the sewers when they're justing tryin to pve is not fun. To me, it shows that you suck at pvp so you have to attack the lower lvls. Some people like having the challenge of the other players being able to fight back. L2P kthx.
Fighting for loot wasn't fun. It was too hard because of all the lag you'd get after killing a boss. I'd rather be confident that my time spent with a group of baddies wasn't gone to waste. Also, Im pretty sure that nobody will realize that they can't see other people's loot.
For the stat problem, I completely agree with Airandius, all anyone does is stack vita. You could try going all strength or w/e your dumb idea is, but most likely you would end up remaking your character because 1k health never got you anywhere.
Airandius, don´t take this wrong, but you should learn to read, asap.
I´m not trying to justify those ´´flaws´´ back into the game, i´m not even trying to make a point. I´m saying I (me, ErU) enjoyed then, and since they are out I will not enjoy D3 as much as D2. Because it was the loot fights, the pking (and being pked) the ´´illusion´´ of customization that kept ME going.
The game being a flop to me doesn´t mean it will be for you. For some obscure reason you failed to notice this.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Opinions are generally crap when trying to make a point, fact is those things are flaws, fact is that a high amount (mainly the victims) do not like these flaws, fact is no matter what you say Blizzard wont add them, fact is the game is better of with these things fixed.
Also, good arguments can't be opinions. Good arguments are solid facts.
Fact is, the above things are facts.
Just doin my job. No hate.
Dude, i really like you, and i usually agree with you, but not in this one.
From all those facts you listed only one are really a fact "Blizzard wont add then". The rest are merely the mainstream opnion of this forum.
Basically because those things were flaws IN D2. The exect same feature may not work in a game and work in another, and since D3 and D2 are different games, things that didn't work out very well in D2 may work in D3.
For exemple the stats. Just because they were really umbalanced and offered poor customisation it doens't mean it can't be fixed. Really, there are thousant of RPGS were customisable stats works very well. They removed this feature from D3 simple for a design choice, but people are totally free to dislike this.
The PK and loot is the same thing. If you never enjoyed a open pvp game that's ok, it's your taste, but some people like it, respect that.
Imo open pvp and loot never worked in D2, and the new loot system came for the best, but this is just my opnion and nothing more.
Now for open PvP, we know nothing about PvP yet so it's all up to discussion. But I consider PK more as a backstab then open pvp. Because a lot of people are just playing pve or just play together and sudenly they get attacked and quite possibly killed, not much fun. Open PvP may still exist, but it could be a rule set up in the lobby.
You consider? Well I'd call that opinion then.
And I don't think it's very fun either, but some people do. The killer most certainly thinks it's fun, at it appears as if ErU thinks it's a fun part of the game as well. Actually dying may not be fun, the the possibility of having to fight for your life at any time perhaps is.
Some people like it and some don't, and Blizzard's problem here will be to figure out whom to please, or if both are to be pleased by some game-mechanics that regulates unplanned PvP.
You don't bring a good point in defense for the loot though. I mean, there are other options to solve the problem. (Like the rolling in WoW.) But having your own loot is good as well.
It's a huge improvement over losing your loot to some ninja. (Only people that would like it are ninja's.)
I kind of agree with you here.
D2 system: Open loot
The quick player gets loot, he wins.
The remaining players do not get loot, they lose.
D3 system: Private loot
The quick player gets loot, he wins.
The remaining players also get loot, they win.
Given the choice between the two systems, everyone should reasonably choose the second one. If you are a quick snagger of loot, why would you pick the first option when all it brings is prevent other people from getting items?
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Usually open pvp games are build towards 2 "faction" of players: PKs and APKs.
In D2 the second part never existed. You could not track and hunt down the annoying killers because of the room based nature of the multiplayer. So a PK came, killed your friend, runned away and thats it, no possible punishment for him (unless your friend r good enough to kill the killer, wich is not the case if the PK picks the right victims). This is why imo the open pvp of D2 are fail.
About the loot, looks like the great majority liked the change, but some ppl prefer the loot fight of D2. In some way it gave a feeling of competition to PvE, and i admit that after 200 baal runs, the only things that pleased me wa fight for loot lol. Ofc D3 will be alot more fun and this artifical competition is not needed, but some people will miss that, a very small minority.
Yeh PhrozenDragon, I said ´consider´ and yes it´s an opinion.
I did that because like you said, the killer in this case would enjoy it.
But let´s make this a bit more extreme, you are walking at the mall just minding your own shopping business.
Suddenly somebody grabs all your money, kicks you in the nuts and runs away laughing.
It's fun for him, but is it fun for you? No.
A game has to be fun, and you have to be able to play the game. PK is not fun, it ruins the game for somebody that did not want to fight you.
So I don't care what ErU likes. Maybe he is one of those ninja looters that PK's, hence he might enjoy these things.
Fact is many people (victims) do not like it, it's a flaw. And thats final.
And that has nothing to do with opinions because I have PK'd my brother like a billion times. It's fun. But that does not make it fun for him. Nor is it a good thing.
About pleasing the people, simply have an option, friendly games and hostile games. In friendly games you can only fight in a dual or whatever like they have in WoW for lack of a better example.
In hostile games people have the risk of being ganged, pk'ed and whatever.
Options are the answer.
Wow, did you just compared Diablo, A GAME, to a real life situation?!
Ok, lets makes things a little bit ''extreme'' I just hate to get knifed in Counter strike: Source. It's humiliating, it should be permabanned, forever. What if I'm walking down the mall, just minding my own business and someone stabs me from behind and spray ''owned'' all over and the rickroll theme starts playing? Geezzz, my life is ruined, how would i recover from that?! please Valve, remove knife fom the game.
Heeey, Rockstar, remove rocket launcher from GTA... what if I'm just driving down the road and some dude blast me and my car to pieces? Booohoooo, no fun, banplzthx.
Seriously dude, you need some time away from the keyboard..
edit: And just so you know, the computer i used to play D2 was crap ( everytime big D, or baal dies the pc would freeze for a few seconds), and my latency was constantly at 150-250 (Not in US), in other words, almost always i ended with no loot at all... but that one time where i managed to snag something, and something good... it was all worth it, thats because i was still trying, instead of crying ''oh noes someone ninjaed baal''
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Yeh PhrozenDragon, I said ´consider´ and yes it´s an opinion.
I did that because like you said, the killer in this case would enjoy it.
But let´s make this a bit more extreme, you are walking at the mall just minding your own shopping business.
Suddenly somebody grabs all your money, kicks you in the nuts and runs away laughing.
It's fun for him, but is it fun for you? No.
A game has to be fun, and you have to be able to play the game. PK is not fun, it ruins the game for somebody that did not want to fight you.
So I don't care what ErU likes. Maybe he is one of those ninja looters that PK's, hence he might enjoy these things.
Fact is many people (victims) do not like it, it's a flaw. And thats final.
And that has nothing to do with opinions because I have PK'd my brother like a billion times. It's fun. But that does not make it fun for him. Nor is it a good thing.
About pleasing the people, simply have an option, friendly games and hostile games. In friendly games you can only fight in a dual or whatever like they have in WoW for lack of a better example.
In hostile games people have the risk of being ganged, pk'ed and whatever.
Options are the answer.
When someone don't like a feature in agme this person is not forced to play it. And open pvp (or pk's) are a feature like any other.
For exemple, when someone pk me i don't get mad. I think it's fun to play the game with the thrill. But i HATE to wait for anything in a game. 30 seconds waiting for something is already a reason for me not play the game. This doesn't mean that party requeriments in a game is a flaw because I hate to wait. Some people tolorate it, others even like it.
It's the same with pk. I LOVEE when a fucking PK enter my game and try to kill me. I don't like game were you can simply "take care of your business" without minding problems. If i could add one feature in D3 i would put NPC simulating PKs: anytime in any place a monster that have equal or higher level may appear from nowhere without any warning and try to kill you.
I recall vividly how Max Schaefer posted on a fansite (Lurker Lounge) defending PK in D2, by describing the world of Diablo as a "dangerous place." Vivid because of how he got flamed for it by some notorious community members.
Fortunately the devs seem to have gotten some sense into them. Even their next failfest Hellgate did not support PK, and the D3 team is entirely different.
Oke, ErU now you are just acting childish. Cause that is not what I´m saying.
I´m saying there are people that don´t like PK because they want to play PvE, so I´m saying: Have an option to make PvE games where there is no PvP.
So splitting the players that normally would not interact. Trading is no problem because of the AH so there.
Can you at least try to use that pink stuff and read this properly.
The mistake you are making, is confusing actual features with flaws. Being able to killed by some ass while you play PvE and never intended to fight others is simply a flaw.
Rocket Lauchers, Knives and what not are actual features, and in those situations you are playing to kill or be killed. (By human players.)
Diablo 3 is not pure PvP, like I repeated like a ton of times. Some people are simply PvE and do not enjoy PvP. Separate these people and be done with it.
For the record, just one more damn time because you obviously failed to understand my previous posts.
PK was not intended by Blizzard. People enjoy it, people hate it. Sure it gives an extra thing to be wary about.
Just seperate people that are interested in pure PvE and people that don't mind PvP, PK, Gangs and what not.
No, you´re saying that people that enjoy pvp and pk are stupid, even comparing then to burglars.
Now, PK wasnt intended by blizzard? lolwut? Did you even played Diablo 1? Do you really think blizzard added a simple click to kill hostile button because they didnt want to encourage pvp/pking? Oh, right, lets just say it was a flaw instead of intended, sigh.....
Buddy, the only reason we will have a carebear D3 is because the ORIGINAL diablo team (the one responsible for making a legendary game) has left. And i doubt blizzard will bother to make separate servers for each one. But if they do... thank god.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
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I'm a huge fan of the Diablo series.. like everyone else in the world but it's a possibility that Diablo 3 could be Blizzard's first flop. Diablo was an instant classic, and is still playable even by todays gaming standards. Then came Diablo 2, an even bigger title then the first. But most will agree, something was lost in the translation despite being the much larger title. Diablo 2 came with countless problems in multiplayer game play. But it still manages to have a huge player base even a decade after it's release.
And now Diablo 3 seems to be a taking a new direction in almost every aspect that made the franchise what it is. Is it possible that even more will be lost in the translation again, maybe too much? Action RPG's can take many different directions in gameplay respects. It is an unperfected art form and the game seems to be taking an arcade style approach this time.
There is no doubt that the game will be bought by millions of players worldwide. But will it live up to the hype? Will Blizzard finally make a "so-so" game (a flop by Blizzard's standards)? Will it really feel like a sequel or just a new Action RPG on the market? We can only speculate until the game is released. Which could be as early as 2011 which is evident from Yahoo Games and an interview with Mike Morhaime where he says that they have a playable version of the game being tested (an Alpha). So feel free to speculate here.
While I agree it won't be a flop, much of the original blizzard developers have moved into other companies. So today's Blizzard is a completely different monster than the Blizzard of 10 years ago.
Maybe if they implement some really BIG pvp system, then it could be great. But i will never again feel that fear of getting Pk'ed in the sewers in hell HC, or better yet, killing the pk (it feels good).
I highlited a little something there, just in case you happened to miss it.
As for saying that D3 will easily surpass its predecessor just because it happened to D2.. I will probably wait till the game is released to make such claim.
Well, it looks like you managed again. So here it is, one last time... try to stay with me, ok?
TO ME , the game needs to have stat management,
TO ME , the game needs to have open loot,
TO ME , the game needs to have pk, and the thrill of the hunt (and being hunted)
Those are personal reasons as why D3 wont be, TO ME , as fun as D2 was. Unless of course, blizzard adds (like i said in the very first post) a killer pvp system. I'm well aware that these are considered ''flaws'' by the majority, but those were things i enjoyed, and thus, why D3 already got me on the wrong foot.
Capiche?
Fighting for loot wasn't fun. It was too hard because of all the lag you'd get after killing a boss. I'd rather be confident that my time spent with a group of baddies wasn't gone to waste. Also, Im pretty sure that nobody will realize that they can't see other people's loot.
For the stat problem, I completely agree with Airandius, all anyone does is stack vita. You could try going all strength or w/e your dumb idea is, but most likely you would end up remaking your character because 1k health never got you anywhere.
I´m not trying to justify those ´´flaws´´ back into the game, i´m not even trying to make a point. I´m saying I (me, ErU) enjoyed then, and since they are out I will not enjoy D3 as much as D2. Because it was the loot fights, the pking (and being pked) the ´´illusion´´ of customization that kept ME going.
The game being a flop to me doesn´t mean it will be for you. For some obscure reason you failed to notice this.
Dude, i really like you, and i usually agree with you, but not in this one.
From all those facts you listed only one are really a fact "Blizzard wont add then". The rest are merely the mainstream opnion of this forum.
Basically because those things were flaws IN D2. The exect same feature may not work in a game and work in another, and since D3 and D2 are different games, things that didn't work out very well in D2 may work in D3.
For exemple the stats. Just because they were really umbalanced and offered poor customisation it doens't mean it can't be fixed. Really, there are thousant of RPGS were customisable stats works very well. They removed this feature from D3 simple for a design choice, but people are totally free to dislike this.
The PK and loot is the same thing. If you never enjoyed a open pvp game that's ok, it's your taste, but some people like it, respect that.
Imo open pvp and loot never worked in D2, and the new loot system came for the best, but this is just my opnion and nothing more.
You consider? Well I'd call that opinion then.
And I don't think it's very fun either, but some people do. The killer most certainly thinks it's fun, at it appears as if ErU thinks it's a fun part of the game as well. Actually dying may not be fun, the the possibility of having to fight for your life at any time perhaps is.
Some people like it and some don't, and Blizzard's problem here will be to figure out whom to please, or if both are to be pleased by some game-mechanics that regulates unplanned PvP.
I kind of agree with you here.
D2 system: Open loot
D3 system: Private loot
Given the choice between the two systems, everyone should reasonably choose the second one. If you are a quick snagger of loot, why would you pick the first option when all it brings is prevent other people from getting items?
In D2 the second part never existed. You could not track and hunt down the annoying killers because of the room based nature of the multiplayer. So a PK came, killed your friend, runned away and thats it, no possible punishment for him (unless your friend r good enough to kill the killer, wich is not the case if the PK picks the right victims). This is why imo the open pvp of D2 are fail.
About the loot, looks like the great majority liked the change, but some ppl prefer the loot fight of D2. In some way it gave a feeling of competition to PvE, and i admit that after 200 baal runs, the only things that pleased me wa fight for loot lol. Ofc D3 will be alot more fun and this artifical competition is not needed, but some people will miss that, a very small minority.
Wow, did you just compared Diablo, A GAME, to a real life situation?!
Ok, lets makes things a little bit ''extreme'' I just hate to get knifed in Counter strike: Source. It's humiliating, it should be permabanned, forever. What if I'm walking down the mall, just minding my own business and someone stabs me from behind and spray ''owned'' all over and the rickroll theme starts playing? Geezzz, my life is ruined, how would i recover from that?! please Valve, remove knife fom the game.
Heeey, Rockstar, remove rocket launcher from GTA... what if I'm just driving down the road and some dude blast me and my car to pieces? Booohoooo, no fun, banplzthx.
Seriously dude, you need some time away from the keyboard..
edit: And just so you know, the computer i used to play D2 was crap ( everytime big D, or baal dies the pc would freeze for a few seconds), and my latency was constantly at 150-250 (Not in US), in other words, almost always i ended with no loot at all... but that one time where i managed to snag something, and something good... it was all worth it, thats because i was still trying, instead of crying ''oh noes someone ninjaed baal''
When someone don't like a feature in agme this person is not forced to play it. And open pvp (or pk's) are a feature like any other.
For exemple, when someone pk me i don't get mad. I think it's fun to play the game with the thrill. But i HATE to wait for anything in a game. 30 seconds waiting for something is already a reason for me not play the game. This doesn't mean that party requeriments in a game is a flaw because I hate to wait. Some people tolorate it, others even like it.
It's the same with pk. I LOVEE when a fucking PK enter my game and try to kill me. I don't like game were you can simply "take care of your business" without minding problems. If i could add one feature in D3 i would put NPC simulating PKs: anytime in any place a monster that have equal or higher level may appear from nowhere without any warning and try to kill you.
Oh yes it was.
I recall vividly how Max Schaefer posted on a fansite (Lurker Lounge) defending PK in D2, by describing the world of Diablo as a "dangerous place." Vivid because of how he got flamed for it by some notorious community members.
Fortunately the devs seem to have gotten some sense into them. Even their next failfest Hellgate did not support PK, and the D3 team is entirely different.
No, you´re saying that people that enjoy pvp and pk are stupid, even comparing then to burglars.
Now, PK wasnt intended by blizzard? lolwut? Did you even played Diablo 1? Do you really think blizzard added a simple click to kill hostile button because they didnt want to encourage pvp/pking? Oh, right, lets just say it was a flaw instead of intended, sigh.....
Buddy, the only reason we will have a carebear D3 is because the ORIGINAL diablo team (the one responsible for making a legendary game) has left. And i doubt blizzard will bother to make separate servers for each one. But if they do... thank god.