I appreciate that the conversation has now seemed to have switched to something more constructive.
However I just wanted to point out one thing.
A lot of people the last few pages have been talking about high end pvp rewards for winning duels and that kind of stuff
To put it simply, that quite simply cannot work in Diablo. It just flat out can't. Like i've pointed out many times, Diablo is a hack-and-slash game, and that is actually something which the developers are proud of. In one of the panels, I remember them saying that D3 would not support any interface addons, and that they are designing the game so that it can be played with a mouse alone if a person wanted to play like that.
You can't have "pvp rewards" in a diablo game, because pvp in diablo is not based on fighting skill. The skill comes in when customizing your stat points and gear. Gear gear gear.
pvp rewards works in WoW because WoW pvp is highly dependant on skill. You have to know your class skills inside out, and know all the enemy class skills inside out. My rogue in wow had 6-7 addons running at all times counting down timers on my screen for my skills, timers for enemy skills, cooldowns, spell warnings, immunity warnings, disable warnings etc.
But in Diablo pvp, you win if your gear is better, unless your opponent is completely retarded. But that is not a knock on diablo. I enjoyed my Diablo pvp years 10x more than I enjoyed WoW's pvp, despite the fact that I did very well in arenas
Mainly because WoW is a hamsterwheel. You'll never do well unless you are willing to put in endless hours a day farming honor, dungeons and arena points just to stay with the latest rewards. And at the end of the day, every pvper is decked out in virtually the same gear. Boring
There was a psychology study done several years back involving pre-school kids. The children were given 1 hour "free time" every day, and given access to coloring books and crayons. All the kids spent the entire hour happily coloring to their hearts delight for weeks
Then the experimenters began awarding the children Gold Stars depending on how much they colored.
Then a few days later, the experimenters stopped handing out stars for the coloring sessions. Very quickly, the children who had once loved to color, suddenly didn't have the interest in it anymore. None of them spent that hour of free time coloring anymore
How does this relate to PvP and even PvE? When you give fixed target rewards for something people enjoyed doing, they get tunnel vision and view the activity as a chore that must be done to get the reward. The activity loses its intrinsic enjoyability, to the same person who was happily enjoying it without rewards prior.
This doesn't apply to magic finding because magic finding is an interirely different phenomena (namely magic finding taps into the natural enjoyment we get from gambling and games of chance)
This is my first post, I've been a lurker for quite awhile, at first I agreed with you.. but now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing after you have already lost.
I just want to point out some things.
Quote from "Michal" »
But in Diablo pvp, you win if your gear is better, unless your opponent is completely retarded
Wrong, I've seen better geared players lose to worse geared plenty of times(from personal experiance as well.)
The biggest issue of D2 pvp is the imbalance.
and
Quote from "Michal" »
My rogue in wow had 6-7 addons running at all times counting down timers on my screen for my skills, timers for enemy skills, cooldowns, spell warnings, immunity warnings, disable warnings etc.
If you need that many addons, you are bad at the game. I made it to 2k rated 2v2 and 3v3 without using a single addon.
Fact: In tournies where the top teams go to play each other at blizzcon or other tournies that pay money, the computers they use have no mods.
You don't need interface addons to success, they are just clutchs. All those addons you described can be seen and avoided without any addons.
I would like to say I would love arenas in D3. They don't even need a prize for it, but a rating would be nice, if only for show. It would make people come together more and do 2v2 3v3 etc for fun with friends and bring together a pvp that promotes the co-op they so love.
I think we can all agree that PvPers fall into different types.
Some like to use cheats and hacks and than talk big.
Then there are the ones who duel with honor and respect. I believe these players do not like the cheats just as much as the PvMers.
Now i agree, and cheats/bots ws the very reason for me to quit b.net.
For me respect is o ene the most important things in a PvP game. No matter the situation, respect the person in the other side because this person is a humam being just like you.
Bad manners are much more difficult to deal with in games that requires team play (PvP or PvM). In the moment that your failure can be caused by a ally things get really stressing. For exemple, you will find more bm in wow raids and dungeons then in any other place in the planet.
Quote from "maka" »
i only mentioned the issue of teleport because i get the feeling that people that prefer to PvP in diablo don't want to change the way they play the game. teleport has become so ubiquitous in d2; with the likely removal of enigma and with the cooldowns on teleport, PvP play will already change quite a lot (as will PvE, but i'm not worried about that, because i don't like to rush anyway).
when i played PvM on bnet, i usually played with people i already knew in real-life, so the issue of unfriendliness and general rudeness only manifested in the rare occasions where i PvPed, hence what i said.
but we might be getting a bit off-topic, sorry about that.
Everyone one want change, but for the better ! Rationnaly i've seen a great quality in the BoE system but i also saw a problem and all i'm saying is that this problem should be solved.
I agree that the BoE can be an issue. Let us see what Blizzard comes up with. They may have learned a few tricks from WoW.
We also need to see how much better the BoE is than the none High Level BoE equipment. If it is just marginal increase than it may not be that much of an issue. I hope the properties of the BoE are not overpowered to the none High Level BoE. Then we will likely have the same issue as in LoD with many players running around with the same gear on the slots. The only thing is that those items can not be transferred down to the next character. It becomes almost a none issue if playing softcore since respecs are likely in the game so you only need 5 character at least until the expansion arrives. HC is another matter since when a character dies you would have to start a new one. I hope they do not implement a microtransaction to revive a RIP HC character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
I appreciate that the conversation has now seemed to have switched to something more constructive.
However I just wanted to point out one thing.
A lot of people the last few pages have been talking about high end pvp rewards for winning duels and that kind of stuff
To put it simply, that quite simply cannot work in Diablo. It just flat out can't. Like i've pointed out many times, Diablo is a hack-and-slash game, and that is actually something which the developers are proud of. In one of the panels, I remember them saying that D3 would not support any interface addons, and that they are designing the game so that it can be played with a mouse alone if a person wanted to play like that.
You can't have "pvp rewards" in a diablo game, because pvp in diablo is not based on fighting skill. The skill comes in when customizing your stat points and gear. Gear gear gear.
pvp rewards works in WoW because WoW pvp is highly dependant on skill.
I just stopped reading there...WoW has more skill in the PvP department then Diablo....HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude you have obviously never and I mean NEVER PvP'd in Diablo. If you believe that an auto name locked, auto hitting game like WoW requires skill and you feel that a aiming require game doesn't then you need to get checked on.
Gear...haha...come play on east and I will buy charsie bought gear from act 1 normal and I will smoke your "top tier" character anyday buddy....WoW better then d2 in PvP...ha!
And honestly if they are gonna add arenas and rankings in Diablo 3 I want the option to do 1v7 because the people in this thread are your competition and just like in Diablo 2 1v7 is the way to go unless you are bad.
You know, as irony has it, gear in WoW is pretty important, if not, more so then Diablo.
This is probably due to a fact in WoW, all your spells or attacks hit no matter what. Take a mage vs mage duel, who wins? The guy with better gear, no matter what.(Unless extreme retardation lol) Due to the fact that a fireball will 100% hit(Unless resisted, in which case, you're unlucky)
In diablo, sorc vs sorc duel, who wins? The guy who can dodge and aim better, which I consider skill. You can be undergeared and still beat him if you dodge better and hit him more.
You know, as irony has it, gear in WoW is pretty important, if not, more so then Diablo.
This is probably due to a fact in WoW, all your spells or attacks hit no matter what. Take a mage vs mage duel, who wins? The guy with better gear, no matter what.(Unless extreme retardation lol) Due to the fact that a fireball will 100% hit(Unless resisted, in which case, you're unlucky)
In diablo, sorc vs sorc duel, who wins? The guy who can dodge and aim better, which I consider skill. You can be undergeared and still beat him if you dodge better and hit him more.
EXACTLY! They fail to realise that in WoW characters are auto name locked and for the most part it is hit for hit. In diablo you have to actually dodge, aim. You are limited with movement in WoW to the point where it doesn't matter. In WoW if you fight 7 of the same tier geared characters vs your one...who is gonna win? Do you even have a slightest chance of winning? Now let's put that up in Diablo...7 top tiered characters vs your one..if you play your cards right you can win and have a decent chance at it actually....but oh wait WoW takes sooo much skill.
I think I read a smidgen about this in someone's post, but... I forgot where it was.
Manners in Diablo: I think that letting everyone say whatever they want makes me respect kind, honorable, and dignified players more by contrast. If everyone can just curse you off at any moment, it makes the people that are more respectful that much better in my eyes.
That's...somehow related, right? This thread has become an amalgam of a lot of issues.
I think I read a smidgen about this in someone's post, but... I forgot where it was.
Manners in Diablo: I think that letting everyone say whatever they want makes me respect kind, honorable, and dignified players more by contrast. If everyone can just curse you off at any moment, it makes the people that are more respectful that much better in my eyes.
That's...somehow related, right? This thread has become an amalgam of a lot of issues.
You are right, when I play Diablo I don't honestly get on and go "Yea, time to go grieve people and torment them!" Even tho it appears as what I like best haha. I see how people react to me when I am being nice or sarcastic and if I deem them to be not honorable or dignified then I give it right back and often times they can't handle it. That's another thing Diablo doesn't need unless it be made an option is a chat filter. The Diablo community is so great and random and odd from other communites because it is open, the Devs and Blizzard really didn't stick their hands in Diablo which is why I am a bit worried for this one cause it is so "controlled" now.
Some like to use cheats and hacks and than talk big.
Then there are the ones who duel with honor and respect. I believe these players do not like the cheats just as much as the PvMers.
This is my first post, I've been a lurker for quite awhile, at first I agreed with you.. but now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing after you have already lost.
I just want to point out some things.
Wrong, I've seen better geared players lose to worse geared plenty of times(from personal experiance as well.)
The biggest issue of D2 pvp is the imbalance.
and
If you need that many addons, you are bad at the game. I made it to 2k rated 2v2 and 3v3 without using a single addon.
Fact: In tournies where the top teams go to play each other at blizzcon or other tournies that pay money, the computers they use have no mods.
You don't need interface addons to success, they are just clutchs. All those addons you described can be seen and avoided without any addons.
I would like to say I would love arenas in D3. They don't even need a prize for it, but a rating would be nice, if only for show. It would make people come together more and do 2v2 3v3 etc for fun with friends and bring together a pvp that promotes the co-op they so love.
My 2 cents.
Now i agree, and cheats/bots ws the very reason for me to quit b.net.
For me respect is o ene the most important things in a PvP game. No matter the situation, respect the person in the other side because this person is a humam being just like you.
Bad manners are much more difficult to deal with in games that requires team play (PvP or PvM). In the moment that your failure can be caused by a ally things get really stressing. For exemple, you will find more bm in wow raids and dungeons then in any other place in the planet.
Everyone one want change, but for the better ! Rationnaly i've seen a great quality in the BoE system but i also saw a problem and all i'm saying is that this problem should be solved.
We also need to see how much better the BoE is than the none High Level BoE equipment. If it is just marginal increase than it may not be that much of an issue. I hope the properties of the BoE are not overpowered to the none High Level BoE. Then we will likely have the same issue as in LoD with many players running around with the same gear on the slots. The only thing is that those items can not be transferred down to the next character. It becomes almost a none issue if playing softcore since respecs are likely in the game so you only need 5 character at least until the expansion arrives. HC is another matter since when a character dies you would have to start a new one. I hope they do not implement a microtransaction to revive a RIP HC character.
I just stopped reading there...WoW has more skill in the PvP department then Diablo....HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude you have obviously never and I mean NEVER PvP'd in Diablo. If you believe that an auto name locked, auto hitting game like WoW requires skill and you feel that a aiming require game doesn't then you need to get checked on.
Gear...haha...come play on east and I will buy charsie bought gear from act 1 normal and I will smoke your "top tier" character anyday buddy....WoW better then d2 in PvP...ha!
And honestly if they are gonna add arenas and rankings in Diablo 3 I want the option to do 1v7 because the people in this thread are your competition and just like in Diablo 2 1v7 is the way to go unless you are bad.
This is probably due to a fact in WoW, all your spells or attacks hit no matter what. Take a mage vs mage duel, who wins? The guy with better gear, no matter what.(Unless extreme retardation lol) Due to the fact that a fireball will 100% hit(Unless resisted, in which case, you're unlucky)
In diablo, sorc vs sorc duel, who wins? The guy who can dodge and aim better, which I consider skill. You can be undergeared and still beat him if you dodge better and hit him more.
EXACTLY! They fail to realise that in WoW characters are auto name locked and for the most part it is hit for hit. In diablo you have to actually dodge, aim. You are limited with movement in WoW to the point where it doesn't matter. In WoW if you fight 7 of the same tier geared characters vs your one...who is gonna win? Do you even have a slightest chance of winning? Now let's put that up in Diablo...7 top tiered characters vs your one..if you play your cards right you can win and have a decent chance at it actually....but oh wait WoW takes sooo much skill.
Manners in Diablo: I think that letting everyone say whatever they want makes me respect kind, honorable, and dignified players more by contrast. If everyone can just curse you off at any moment, it makes the people that are more respectful that much better in my eyes.
That's...somehow related, right? This thread has become an amalgam of a lot of issues.
You are right, when I play Diablo I don't honestly get on and go "Yea, time to go grieve people and torment them!" Even tho it appears as what I like best haha. I see how people react to me when I am being nice or sarcastic and if I deem them to be not honorable or dignified then I give it right back and often times they can't handle it. That's another thing Diablo doesn't need unless it be made an option is a chat filter. The Diablo community is so great and random and odd from other communites because it is open, the Devs and Blizzard really didn't stick their hands in Diablo which is why I am a bit worried for this one cause it is so "controlled" now.