Really this entire thread is just one big assumption. They said that they were playing around with BoE stuff but they only said "end game" stuff. Does that include gear or something specific that you get as a reward at the end of the game like ie: annuilus or hell torch.
Don't forget that that interview was back in september and a lot of things can happen in five months. They might have scrapped the idea for all we know. Also this entire thing is your opinion. Lets bring in some other PvP fanatics and see what their take is on all this.
Every single PvP fanatic i know are negative about allmost everything about D3.
...
But it's because they just like D2 too much to accept changes. I've no problems with changes. I just wanna know what they have in mind for the PvP communities because obviosly BoE alone is unbearable for then. They will have to creat something to the pvp stay alive.
Anyway this thread failed because all you did was show how much you like the way things are in d2. THis is d3, and yes its gona be different and yes they gona have boe items.
Your like, in d2 you could trade your axe for som1's sword, and add 10 hr's and you got a deal... So fucking what man? who said that this system is good? its flawed in so many ways that i cant even start talking about it. For fucks sake dude.
Exactly. This thread is one person's opinion who doesn't like the change and he is claiming that 99% of the other players agree with him despite the fact that nobody else here (whom all still play D2 to some degree) agrees with him.
BoE is going to be in the game and it is there for a reason. Blizzard is one of the most successful gaming companies in the world and I am sure they are above making such foolish mistakes that Michal thinks they are. There is no need to go back and forth about the same subject. We understand that BoE will cause players to have less gear to trade with but that is the reason they are adding it. If you want to stop the market from flooding with high-end gear, you have to have a way to control it. Trades will still exist, people will still by their top gear, this just makes it a little harder.
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I'm not worried about this, firstly if you're a true pvp'er and a fan of the Diablo series you'll get passed it.
What ever the dev's do with PvP it will be 100 times better then what PvP in D2 is right now.
Diablo 3 will be a different game then Diablo 2, we just have to accept that, and hope that they make the right decisions to make D3 more fun then D2.
Whether or not something like BoE items will kill the game or not can't even be decided right now, if that's the case then you and I both know they'd just remove it from the game.
All in all, the game won't be out till the end of next year most likely, if we're lucky.
Ok, I tried to argue my points rationally, including long detailed posts, but It seems the the same old crap
PVE'ers coming and shooting down ideas an stubbornly refusing to see the obvious for their own selfish PVE reasons.
Quote from "ScyberDragon" »
Exactly. This thread is one person's opinion who doesn't like the change and he is claiming that 99% of the other players agree with him despite the fact that nobody else here (whom all still play D2 to some degree) agrees with him.
BoE is going to be in the game and it is there for a reason. Blizzard is one of the most successful gaming companies in the world and I am sure they are above making such foolish mistakes that Michal thinks they are. There is no need to go back and forth about the same subject. We understand that BoE will cause players to have less gear to trade with but that is the reason they are adding it. If you want to stop the market from flooding with high-end gear, you have to have a way to control it. Trades will still exist, people will still by their top gear, this just makes it a little harder.
Do not delude yourself
Glance around this thread about the topic which was started a few months ago on Battlnet's forum
At least half of the people are against it. And almots always the same half. The pvp'ers don't like it, and the PVE'ers come in start advocating for the idea.
Since you guys don't like when I make long posts, or seem to even read them, let me cut the bullsh*t and say it right now
Bind on Equip is to reward PVE'ers. I hate PVE. As to most long time PVP'ers. Thats why they PVP. Clicking mindless monsters over and over, no matter how clever the AI is not fun ever, especially when you are doing the run for the 1000 time. Bind on Equip is a PVE'ers wetdream, and it is a PVP'ers nightmare. Plain and simple.
Just look at the idea I gave one or two pages ago about, making expensive gold or very hard quests to do in order to "unbind" an item . A perfectly legitimate compromise which satisfys hardcore pvp'ers, but also addresses the legitamate question of item over-inflation
But snarky pve'ers like Maka don't consider it, because the end of the day, whilst a pvp'er like myself is willing to make consolations like the suggestion I made, PVE'ers selfishly advocate it because it serves their play style
I repeat - The heart of PVP in a hack and slash, is improving your gear incrementally by slowing building up from current items. All the items inyour bag and that you are wearing, which you worked so hard for - they all have value, and help you trade for better items in the future. Bind on equip BUTCHERS this. It forces PVP'ers to become PVEers. Plain and simple.
My apartment: $100,000
My target house: 250,000
If that is your situation, you wan't to be able to sell your apartment, get the money, and then use it towards buying your new house
But bind on equip means your apartment is worthless and you will have to get the whole $250,000 from scratch. And when you enter your new house "equip new items", the whole 250,000 goes down the drain, and you can never use it to buy something again
Since people are getting rude in this thread, ill put it simply.
Permanent bind on equip is a horrible idea, and everything that is diablo, and a hamster-wheel solution which will suck the joy out of all things PVP, and is catered to PVE'ers like the ones in this thread
It's kinda pissin me off that you keep saying items are everything for d2. It sounds like your saying skill is a complete non-factor. Maybe for melee it is, but I recall beating many people with my sorc,zon,nec etc even though those players clearly had better items than I had. It's because I was more skilled. Not more skilled as in I boxed like a spawn or got a fb sorc and just teled around while spamming upwards waiting for someone to telestomp me like that guy on youtube. I could aim, and nl, and blindspot.
Anyway, not all items are going to be boe. Just because you see a good item that you want, that doesn't mean your not going to be able to use your current item to help trade for it. If I was reading this right, then only the really awesome items will be boe. And lets be honest, if you have one of those amazing items, which will probably the best in the game, what are the chances that your going to run into and even better sick nasty item? It won't happen often. And no one is going to grind for hours just because some guy has an item that has 5% more enhanced dmg than yours does.
You don't understand anything from that sentence: D2 PvP is gone. I have no idea if they want the PvP in D3 to be close to WoW or have another plan, but its NOT going to be like D2.
And thats a good thing. And it also means there is nothing to change, no stupid "compromise" to be done around BoE items, if they are even in.
Besides, PvP in D2 sucks and almost nobody like it. I don't mean that no one plays it, technically a lot do, but its still a very small percentage of the community and Blizzard knows it, heck I remember they themselves something about that, but don't quote me on that. Point is, there is no reason to keep things as they were in D2. Its an entirely new thing.
I also find it hilarious that you call those that prefer PvE here selfish, because -you- are also trying to force your own stupidities for the sake of a way of PvP that is going to change quite a lot in D3.
The thing is that they already stated this game is going to be more orientated towards PvE...I mean there's nothing much you can do other than get over it man
Personally, I'd like to see PvP seperate from PvE. Have arenas in the towns, villages, cities or whatever starting place you find yourself in. Or follow the Borderlands/WoW method and have Arenas strewn across the countryside and do that kind of battle there. Whatever the method Blizzard chooses, they will set the tone for PvP in Diablo. However, I'd like to point out that before making the assumptions on the effects of "bind on whatever" and what PvP in Diablo 3 is going to be like, it'd be more advantageous to actually have a Blizzard rep, be it Bashiok or whomever, give the exact details of both as it pertains to Diablo 3 before anyone gives the call to grab the torches and pitchforks.
As it stands for me, I don't know what Blizzard has exactly planned with that so I'm not throwing up the red flags just yet.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Avast ye! Scyberdragon be te thank for the sig, arr!
Even through many here made good points, the problem still exist. I've a hard time in writing, specially in another langue, thats why i will try to explain it in the best way i can:
Imagine a variable "wealth". Wealth represents the monatary value of all items you have (equiped or not, bounded or not).
When you start to play, you will accumulating wealth with time by farming. A good trade means more wealth, a bad one means less wealth and a fair one means constant wealth.
For PvP players they only need a certain X amount of wealth that have the same value of all the best item buld possble for him. After get this X amount (even if he don't have all items he need) he no longer need to farm more, he can simple trade for the ones he needs.
After getting the best gear possible he may want to change character or just the spec. Then he can trade all his item for other ones and end up with the same X wealth amount. He can do this whenever he want to change and try somethng new.
If BoE exist this is no longer possible. When he want to change and try new stuff he will have to accumulate more wealth because a fraction of his X amount is "locked" and he can no longer abondon his old character. So it's force a PvP player to play PvE when he should be able to quite it.
We don't know all about D3 (we actually know just a little!). But with the info we have, this problem exist and i'm curious to know if and how it's gonna be solved. WoW-like PvP ? Sell items in NPC for some kind of valuable special token ? Duel bets that allows good pvp player to acumulate wealth in pvp ? There are many way out, i'm just curious to know wich ways they will choose !
I'm just gonna repeat what I said earlier. They have not even said what BoE will include. We don't know if gear will even be included in this. Yes I have to agree with making gold worth something by spending it to take of BoE items. But again it depends on what the BoE item is anyway.
I'm just gonna repeat what I said earlier. They have not even said what BoE will include. We don't know if gear will even be included in this. Yes I have to agree with making gold worth something by spending it to take of BoE items. But again it depends on what the BoE item is anyway.
Actually they said "everything 85+ will problably be BoE'. I'll try to find the source.
We absolutely won't have items that bind when picked up, except for the obvious things like quest items and other character-specific items that wouldn't/shouldn't be tradable anyway.
That alone, I think, should dissuade the most severe concerns with binding items.
And before I go on just understand that while a lot of this is very stable in its concepts, the details aren't final.
For Bind on Equip (BoE), the idea right now is that it would only be applied to "end game" items of specific quality levels. So to start, it's not every item, and it's not even every item above a certain level. For the BoE items that will exist, you can pick them up, if you don't want it you can still trade it, or give it to another character, a friend, vendor it, whatever you like. But, if you make the commitment to keeping the item and equipping it, yes, it's yours now.
The reasoning is that in reality we need a solid way to keep the economy stable at the end game. With items building up over a potentially infinite amount of time there's no way to have any measure of control over worth of items. While an item may be the rarest and best in the game, over four or five years a stockpile has built up and those items are now commonplace and hold little value as compared to their rarity. The gold being earned by players stays the same or likely increases as players become more proficient at playing the game while they spend less as items lose their value. Gold value drops, and we're skirting into a familiar cycle.
By ensuring we can rely on some amount of "consumption" of items, their relative worth stays high, the market is predictable and both sellers and buyers enjoy a stable marketplace for (hopefully) many years.
Diablo II has an inconsistent approach which is the somewhat stable Ladder economy, since it's quite literally flushed out every so often. But it's a very intrusive approach to a problem that could be solved through other means that don't require making everyone start over.
As a quasi-aside: There's an idea being thrown around, and this is really not guaranteed in any way, that some or potentially all items that are bound to you could be bound to your entire account. So if you yourself "own" an item from it being bound, you can trade it between all the characters on your account freely. Feed alts your old-but-still-very-nice items, etc. That's just an idea, it may not take shape, but it's a possibility.
hopefully this will help.
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1- you have a barb and a monk at lvl ~70, you now want to make a wiz. you think it's 'bad' or 'unfair' that he needs to work hard to get good wizard gear? otherwise, you just need to level up one character, and then you can just trade all your gear for all-new gear to another class, and you're on your way. i think that's very bad. you can like PvP all you want, but the fact remains that Diablo is a PvE game first, and only then PvP. quite simply, you want a new class, you have to work to get the gear for that class.
2- you can sell your BoE gear. with gold set to be important in D3, your BoE will still have value, it won't be 'worthless', as you and Michal seem to think.
1- There only a very few online games that are PvE base and the only good one is WoW.
Diablo was a 100% PvP game because items were duped and there was no reason to kill monsters.
Diablo 2 was mixed. I only see the PvE community active when the ladder is fresh. And even after the restart 2 or 3 mouths later most people seens to quit. But the PvP community looks fairly active nowdays.
And i think it's totally fair. The great PvP based RPGs out there follow 2 basic formulas. Or all items are avaliable almost freely (or people get items quickly through endless trades) the metagame are based at skills and specs (wow , D2, gw). Or games were the clan is the very cell of the game and to survive those clans must be good at both areas because PvE sustains PvP and PvP sustain PvE (most eastern mmorpgs).
PvP>PvE allways because PvE ends. One day you kill the last boss and noway in hell the irrational cycle (farm items->kill faster->farm more items) sustain people playing a game for years. Only games that constantly update with new bosses and dungeons may keep people playing it because theres allways a new last boss to kill, a new dungeon to roam. And i really doubt D3 will have this kind of update.
2- Traditionaly the gold you get in NPC by selling high end items are worthless. I never played one single game were it was viable. But i pointed out this solution when i said "special token when you sell high end items to npcs).
Edit to comment the blue post:
First of all, i was mistaken and i ask sorry. I must have read in a non official source and twsited thing in my mind, i'm ashemed i spread wrong info about the game :/
But imo the problem persist. I accept that we no longer know what kind of item will have BoE (if it's gonna be super hyper high end ones or a moderate amount of high end items). Based at bashioks explanation of why they will add it in the game i assume the second possibility is the right one (why would they want to avoid a flood of items that barely exist?).
If it's the case, the problem is only minimized. You still have a frozen fraction of your X wealthness, just a smaller one now, and in the end you will have to farm again to get the BoE items you wish. The bigger the wish of blizz to avoid a item flood in the market, the bigger the lack of dynamic in the metagame (people will change gear/skill/strategy slower). And I assure you, RPGs, all of then, survives because of the metagame shiftness.
I think the best way to keep BoE in the game without taking out the fluidness of PvP experience is to make pvp based at duels with bets and/or official tornaments with gold/item prizes. This way i can keep my wealthness growing while playing PVP. In case i looose gold in bets or don't get a good position in official tornaments, i will have to go back to PvE and farm a little more. Fair enough since if i'm loosing to much it's problably means i have to change my spec/item approach and need alot of new and fresh stuff.
As far as I know D1 was designed for single player. The multi player aspect was added late in the development cycle.
D2 was more designed to be played against monsters with PvP as a secondary concern. If it was designed for PvP first then why bother adding the monsters and the acts.
Many people who play D2 play single player and offline. Some have gone to mods to play.
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We have been over this a billion and a half times. Noone has the grounds including Blizzard to say what Diablo is mainly. There is a PvE following and there is a PvP following. There is not 1 over the other.
Soulbound is a good thing I believe. Its not BOP there is only BOE items. Which in turn will keep the economy better to make rare items rarer because once you use it its yours!
1- erm....how about, instead of farming, you just play the game again with a different class or a different build? there were 7 of them in D2 LoD, you know? plus lord-knows how many builds per class, to me that's PvE that'll last you a lifetime. keeping in mind that D3 will have respecs, the system you propose will result in you playing AT MOST 5 characters, one per class (discounting future expansions): with respecs you can try every build possible in a single class with only one character, and by trading end-game gear you can play every class with godly gear without 'finding' that gear;
2- making gold useful in D3 is a really big deal for blizz, so when we discuss gold, we should assume that they'll succeed.
1- No matter how good the replaybility is, it's the same game with a different character. With time you will know all quests, all bosses, all dungeons and the game will loose it's appeal.
Maybe they can make a good part of people play 100 or 200 hours in PvE. But thats not enough to maintain b.net crowded for years.
A analogy crossed my mind. PvE works like a book (kinda like static). No matter how good it is, you will not pass your whole live reading it over and over again. Even through that book do not leave your mind and your conversation with friends and in online communities, you will not read it.
PvP is like a sport. It allways fresh because your goal starts and ends with every match. Unlike the letters in a book or a AI monster, the challenge against a human mind or body is ever changing.
2- I'm assuming gold will be valuable. Be able to sell or not high end stuff to NPC have not much to do with it. Ususally thisis not possible because the inflation in games are usually high while the sell value for NPCs tends to be static.
They could creat a option to the game automatically calculate the market price of every BoE item and make the NPC buy it for around the value. But this value must be considerably lower because in other case people will drop and sell BoE instead of trade it... In this case it would not solve the problem, but minimize it because it would cover just a fraction of your binded X wealth (yous till have to come back to farm the othe fraction). And the more they want to insentive players trade and make bigger the difference between NPCs and market prices, smaller the fraction of binded wealth will be covered by selling items to npc.
*I bet if they use economics throeries they can find a point of equilibrium were NPC prices do not warm the player-player market but contributes to minimize the damage caused by BoE!*
Quote from "Hans" »
As far as I know D1 was designed for single player. The multi player aspect was added late in the development cycle.
D2 was more designed to be played against monsters with PvP as a secondary concern. If it was designed for PvP first then why bother adding the monsters and the acts.
Many people who play D2 play single player and offline. Some have gone to mods to play.
It was desgined for PvE but most of it's sucess is due PvP. If you ever played D1 besides finishing the game in SP you know that everyone in the net did nothing but hack the hell out of the game and duel.
D2 is more mixed then D1, but imo the PvP aspect was more important in the b.net enviorment. First of all rush breaks most of the PvE since you skip 90% of the dungeons (most people rush alot).
And you said execly what i wasd thinking. D2 PvE are sustained by mod, no doubt (because it keep the game fresh - new mobs, items, dungeons, bosses, quests!). Don't forget that D3 will have no mod support and those will problably not exist. Wich means PvE = deja vu of the same 20 (?) hours.
Quote from "vladdracul" »
We have been over this a billion and a half times. Noone has the grounds including Blizzard to say what Diablo is mainly. There is a PvE following and there is a PvP following. There is not 1 over the other.
The PvE followers are or mod players or HC players (specially HC ladder). The mod dudes are kinda orfan in D3. And HC re unpopular by bature because it's damn hardcore (and the crowd are allways composed by a majority of softcores).
Quote from "maka" »
well.....there is PvE without PvP,, but there can't be PvP without PvE.....it's one way to see things.
A way that don't tell much about what we are talking here XD
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Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
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Don't forget that that interview was back in september and a lot of things can happen in five months. They might have scrapped the idea for all we know. Also this entire thing is your opinion. Lets bring in some other PvP fanatics and see what their take is on all this.
...
But it's because they just like D2 too much to accept changes. I've no problems with changes. I just wanna know what they have in mind for the PvP communities because obviosly BoE alone is unbearable for then. They will have to creat something to the pvp stay alive.
Your like, in d2 you could trade your axe for som1's sword, and add 10 hr's and you got a deal... So fucking what man? who said that this system is good? its flawed in so many ways that i cant even start talking about it. For fucks sake dude.
BoE is going to be in the game and it is there for a reason. Blizzard is one of the most successful gaming companies in the world and I am sure they are above making such foolish mistakes that Michal thinks they are. There is no need to go back and forth about the same subject. We understand that BoE will cause players to have less gear to trade with but that is the reason they are adding it. If you want to stop the market from flooding with high-end gear, you have to have a way to control it. Trades will still exist, people will still by their top gear, this just makes it a little harder.
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Perhaps unbinding items is a microtransaction?
Just some ides I wanted to throw out here.
Join the chat!
What ever the dev's do with PvP it will be 100 times better then what PvP in D2 is right now.
Diablo 3 will be a different game then Diablo 2, we just have to accept that, and hope that they make the right decisions to make D3 more fun then D2.
Whether or not something like BoE items will kill the game or not can't even be decided right now, if that's the case then you and I both know they'd just remove it from the game.
All in all, the game won't be out till the end of next year most likely, if we're lucky.
PVE'ers coming and shooting down ideas an stubbornly refusing to see the obvious for their own selfish PVE reasons.
Do not delude yourself
Glance around this thread about the topic which was started a few months ago on Battlnet's forum
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=19382695902&sid=3000&pageNo=1
At least half of the people are against it. And almots always the same half. The pvp'ers don't like it, and the PVE'ers come in start advocating for the idea.
Since you guys don't like when I make long posts, or seem to even read them, let me cut the bullsh*t and say it right now
Bind on Equip is to reward PVE'ers. I hate PVE. As to most long time PVP'ers. Thats why they PVP. Clicking mindless monsters over and over, no matter how clever the AI is not fun ever, especially when you are doing the run for the 1000 time. Bind on Equip is a PVE'ers wetdream, and it is a PVP'ers nightmare. Plain and simple.
Just look at the idea I gave one or two pages ago about, making expensive gold or very hard quests to do in order to "unbind" an item . A perfectly legitimate compromise which satisfys hardcore pvp'ers, but also addresses the legitamate question of item over-inflation
But snarky pve'ers like Maka don't consider it, because the end of the day, whilst a pvp'er like myself is willing to make consolations like the suggestion I made, PVE'ers selfishly advocate it because it serves their play style
I repeat - The heart of PVP in a hack and slash, is improving your gear incrementally by slowing building up from current items. All the items inyour bag and that you are wearing, which you worked so hard for - they all have value, and help you trade for better items in the future. Bind on equip BUTCHERS this. It forces PVP'ers to become PVEers. Plain and simple.
My apartment: $100,000
My target house: 250,000
If that is your situation, you wan't to be able to sell your apartment, get the money, and then use it towards buying your new house
But bind on equip means your apartment is worthless and you will have to get the whole $250,000 from scratch. And when you enter your new house "equip new items", the whole 250,000 goes down the drain, and you can never use it to buy something again
Since people are getting rude in this thread, ill put it simply.
Permanent bind on equip is a horrible idea, and everything that is diablo, and a hamster-wheel solution which will suck the joy out of all things PVP, and is catered to PVE'ers like the ones in this thread
Anyway, not all items are going to be boe. Just because you see a good item that you want, that doesn't mean your not going to be able to use your current item to help trade for it. If I was reading this right, then only the really awesome items will be boe. And lets be honest, if you have one of those amazing items, which will probably the best in the game, what are the chances that your going to run into and even better sick nasty item? It won't happen often. And no one is going to grind for hours just because some guy has an item that has 5% more enhanced dmg than yours does.
There is no compromise to be done.
You don't understand anything from that sentence: D2 PvP is gone. I have no idea if they want the PvP in D3 to be close to WoW or have another plan, but its NOT going to be like D2.
And thats a good thing. And it also means there is nothing to change, no stupid "compromise" to be done around BoE items, if they are even in.
Besides, PvP in D2 sucks and almost nobody like it. I don't mean that no one plays it, technically a lot do, but its still a very small percentage of the community and Blizzard knows it, heck I remember they themselves something about that, but don't quote me on that. Point is, there is no reason to keep things as they were in D2. Its an entirely new thing.
I also find it hilarious that you call those that prefer PvE here selfish, because -you- are also trying to force your own stupidities for the sake of a way of PvP that is going to change quite a lot in D3.
♣Strength and Honor♣
As it stands for me, I don't know what Blizzard has exactly planned with that so I'm not throwing up the red flags just yet.
Avast ye! Scyberdragon be te thank for the sig, arr!
Imagine a variable "wealth". Wealth represents the monatary value of all items you have (equiped or not, bounded or not).
When you start to play, you will accumulating wealth with time by farming. A good trade means more wealth, a bad one means less wealth and a fair one means constant wealth.
For PvP players they only need a certain X amount of wealth that have the same value of all the best item buld possble for him. After get this X amount (even if he don't have all items he need) he no longer need to farm more, he can simple trade for the ones he needs.
After getting the best gear possible he may want to change character or just the spec. Then he can trade all his item for other ones and end up with the same X wealth amount. He can do this whenever he want to change and try somethng new.
If BoE exist this is no longer possible. When he want to change and try new stuff he will have to accumulate more wealth because a fraction of his X amount is "locked" and he can no longer abondon his old character. So it's force a PvP player to play PvE when he should be able to quite it.
We don't know all about D3 (we actually know just a little!). But with the info we have, this problem exist and i'm curious to know if and how it's gonna be solved. WoW-like PvP ? Sell items in NPC for some kind of valuable special token ? Duel bets that allows good pvp player to acumulate wealth in pvp ? There are many way out, i'm just curious to know wich ways they will choose !
Actually they said "everything 85+ will problably be BoE'. I'll try to find the source.
Official Blizzard Quote:
We absolutely won't have items that bind when picked up, except for the obvious things like quest items and other character-specific items that wouldn't/shouldn't be tradable anyway.
That alone, I think, should dissuade the most severe concerns with binding items.
And before I go on just understand that while a lot of this is very stable in its concepts, the details aren't final.
For Bind on Equip (BoE), the idea right now is that it would only be applied to "end game" items of specific quality levels. So to start, it's not every item, and it's not even every item above a certain level. For the BoE items that will exist, you can pick them up, if you don't want it you can still trade it, or give it to another character, a friend, vendor it, whatever you like. But, if you make the commitment to keeping the item and equipping it, yes, it's yours now.
The reasoning is that in reality we need a solid way to keep the economy stable at the end game. With items building up over a potentially infinite amount of time there's no way to have any measure of control over worth of items. While an item may be the rarest and best in the game, over four or five years a stockpile has built up and those items are now commonplace and hold little value as compared to their rarity. The gold being earned by players stays the same or likely increases as players become more proficient at playing the game while they spend less as items lose their value. Gold value drops, and we're skirting into a familiar cycle.
By ensuring we can rely on some amount of "consumption" of items, their relative worth stays high, the market is predictable and both sellers and buyers enjoy a stable marketplace for (hopefully) many years.
Diablo II has an inconsistent approach which is the somewhat stable Ladder economy, since it's quite literally flushed out every so often. But it's a very intrusive approach to a problem that could be solved through other means that don't require making everyone start over.
As a quasi-aside: There's an idea being thrown around, and this is really not guaranteed in any way, that some or potentially all items that are bound to you could be bound to your entire account. So if you yourself "own" an item from it being bound, you can trade it between all the characters on your account freely. Feed alts your old-but-still-very-nice items, etc. That's just an idea, it may not take shape, but it's a possibility.
hopefully this will help.
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1- There only a very few online games that are PvE base and the only good one is WoW.
Diablo was a 100% PvP game because items were duped and there was no reason to kill monsters.
Diablo 2 was mixed. I only see the PvE community active when the ladder is fresh. And even after the restart 2 or 3 mouths later most people seens to quit. But the PvP community looks fairly active nowdays.
And i think it's totally fair. The great PvP based RPGs out there follow 2 basic formulas. Or all items are avaliable almost freely (or people get items quickly through endless trades) the metagame are based at skills and specs (wow , D2, gw). Or games were the clan is the very cell of the game and to survive those clans must be good at both areas because PvE sustains PvP and PvP sustain PvE (most eastern mmorpgs).
PvP>PvE allways because PvE ends. One day you kill the last boss and noway in hell the irrational cycle (farm items->kill faster->farm more items) sustain people playing a game for years. Only games that constantly update with new bosses and dungeons may keep people playing it because theres allways a new last boss to kill, a new dungeon to roam. And i really doubt D3 will have this kind of update.
2- Traditionaly the gold you get in NPC by selling high end items are worthless. I never played one single game were it was viable. But i pointed out this solution when i said "special token when you sell high end items to npcs).
Edit to comment the blue post:
First of all, i was mistaken and i ask sorry. I must have read in a non official source and twsited thing in my mind, i'm ashemed i spread wrong info about the game :/
But imo the problem persist. I accept that we no longer know what kind of item will have BoE (if it's gonna be super hyper high end ones or a moderate amount of high end items). Based at bashioks explanation of why they will add it in the game i assume the second possibility is the right one (why would they want to avoid a flood of items that barely exist?).
If it's the case, the problem is only minimized. You still have a frozen fraction of your X wealthness, just a smaller one now, and in the end you will have to farm again to get the BoE items you wish. The bigger the wish of blizz to avoid a item flood in the market, the bigger the lack of dynamic in the metagame (people will change gear/skill/strategy slower). And I assure you, RPGs, all of then, survives because of the metagame shiftness.
I think the best way to keep BoE in the game without taking out the fluidness of PvP experience is to make pvp based at duels with bets and/or official tornaments with gold/item prizes. This way i can keep my wealthness growing while playing PVP. In case i looose gold in bets or don't get a good position in official tornaments, i will have to go back to PvE and farm a little more. Fair enough since if i'm loosing to much it's problably means i have to change my spec/item approach and need alot of new and fresh stuff.
D2 was more designed to be played against monsters with PvP as a secondary concern. If it was designed for PvP first then why bother adding the monsters and the acts.
Many people who play D2 play single player and offline. Some have gone to mods to play.
1- No matter how good the replaybility is, it's the same game with a different character. With time you will know all quests, all bosses, all dungeons and the game will loose it's appeal.
Maybe they can make a good part of people play 100 or 200 hours in PvE. But thats not enough to maintain b.net crowded for years.
A analogy crossed my mind. PvE works like a book (kinda like static). No matter how good it is, you will not pass your whole live reading it over and over again. Even through that book do not leave your mind and your conversation with friends and in online communities, you will not read it.
PvP is like a sport. It allways fresh because your goal starts and ends with every match. Unlike the letters in a book or a AI monster, the challenge against a human mind or body is ever changing.
2- I'm assuming gold will be valuable. Be able to sell or not high end stuff to NPC have not much to do with it. Ususally thisis not possible because the inflation in games are usually high while the sell value for NPCs tends to be static.
They could creat a option to the game automatically calculate the market price of every BoE item and make the NPC buy it for around the value. But this value must be considerably lower because in other case people will drop and sell BoE instead of trade it... In this case it would not solve the problem, but minimize it because it would cover just a fraction of your binded X wealth (yous till have to come back to farm the othe fraction). And the more they want to insentive players trade and make bigger the difference between NPCs and market prices, smaller the fraction of binded wealth will be covered by selling items to npc.
*I bet if they use economics throeries they can find a point of equilibrium were NPC prices do not warm the player-player market but contributes to minimize the damage caused by BoE!*
It was desgined for PvE but most of it's sucess is due PvP. If you ever played D1 besides finishing the game in SP you know that everyone in the net did nothing but hack the hell out of the game and duel.
D2 is more mixed then D1, but imo the PvP aspect was more important in the b.net enviorment. First of all rush breaks most of the PvE since you skip 90% of the dungeons (most people rush alot).
And you said execly what i wasd thinking. D2 PvE are sustained by mod, no doubt (because it keep the game fresh - new mobs, items, dungeons, bosses, quests!). Don't forget that D3 will have no mod support and those will problably not exist. Wich means PvE = deja vu of the same 20 (?) hours.
The PvE followers are or mod players or HC players (specially HC ladder). The mod dudes are kinda orfan in D3. And HC re unpopular by bature because it's damn hardcore (and the crowd are allways composed by a majority of softcores).
A way that don't tell much about what we are talking here XD