In D2 it took TOOOOOO long to get to 99, mind numbing repetitive grinding that was NOT fun.
Jay Wilson said that the best way to lvl up should also be the most fun way.
Also in D2, being 90 and 99 did not give you big enough gains for one to want to do the grind in the first place. Since gear at that level was so good, the 9 extra skill points and 45 extra stat points didn't really do much.
I think there should be quests at the high levels will be substantially harder and yield far more exp to make leveling to 99 more feasible and rewarding. Along with the "regular" quests that may not be as hard or rewarding.
I think getting to 99 should require significant amount of time dedicated to play, but I think skill should be a BIGGER factor. I hope there will be quests that give HUUUUGE amounts of exp, but could only be completed by a group of skilled players that are coordinated and play the game masterfully.
And hopefully you get more skill points or stat points the higher in level you go to make it meaningful to gain these additional level.
If it didn't take a long time then there would just be a bunch of 99's running around.
Quote from "mad3nch1na" »
mind numbing repetitive grinding that was NOT fun.
I agree, but unfortunately it is probably unavoidable. People will figure out the quickest way to get exp, and then that will be repeated over and over again. Like you said, they can provide the exp in the form of quests and such, but there are only so many variations that can be included.
I never got to 99 in D2. I'm surprised so many people in love with the game actually leveled to 99, some people oh so many times. Like it was a rule or something.
But then again, most people just play the game as a leveling race. TOTALLY not the way I do.
I'm sure D3 will not make stupid continuous boss runs the most effective ways, but no matter what, grinding is dumb. Once you complete hell, they need something new, thats why a 4th difficulty was suggested (at least, thats why I'd want one), one that puts all the game on the same level, so that absolutely any zone could be challenging, so you could do anything anywhere and still have fun.
Couple that with special uber quests, some more things like this that gives a lot of XP could yes, make it a lot more interesting, but most of them should not be repeatable (for example, if uber tristram was an uber quest, completing it would give you a LOT of XP, more than any intense grinding could even give you, but you CAN'T turn in the quest twice. You can still go and beat uber tristram again, though).
Like story quests, actually. Once per character, but worth a lot. But they must actually be hard.
ya i want it to take about the same amount of time to level as it did in d2. i dont want to see all level 99's walking around. has to be like
woah a 99!
It would be about 4-7 days for me (6-10 hours per day).
Compare the 39 hours to one of the 1-70 records in WoW, which is 1 day and 4.5 hours, or 28.5 hours.
WoW is ridicolously easy to level because it means nothing to the game. In WoW the game starts when you reach the max level.. In Diablo the game ends (in the sense theres nothing else to do unless hunt for item, and only sorcs hunt for items).
The level 99 character could shine like with D2 sets and get a special title.
Just a note, this shine was probably the ugliest thing to have and the most annoying, EVER. I would go CRAZY having that stupid aura permanently stuck to me.
I'm all for making your 99 character look badass and all, but a stupid looking aura like the sets in D2 is not the way Sorry, just had to say it!
I hope there will be quests that give HUUUUGE amounts of exp, but could only be completed by a group of skilled players that are coordinated and play the game masterfully.
careful here, your saying this should be an MMORPG instead of an RPG which is what it is going to be. I HATE having to depend on other people except for trading or rushes, but in terms of doing quests I don't think that having to depend on other players is the way to go. But having other people to facilitate quest completion is not the same thing and I hope they keep that. I'm just saying that I don't want get bogged down because I can't find good players to complete a friggin quest.
I just hope that if you need 2 days from level 98-99, then it better be fun and rewarding. Not rewarding as in power, but it should be displayed visually in many ways.
The level 99 character could shine like with D2 sets and get a special title.
There could be a achievement for it, which is pretty likely.
The account name could be displayed in a different color.
And the most important thing is that it should be fun all the way to 99. Since the reward in power will heavily diminish somewhere around 90 (if it is like in D2) there isn't any character progression that encourages the player. A level 99 character has no significant advantage over a level 90 character, so the only encouragement you have is the ability to show off and brag about your level 99 character, which is why it should be clearly displayed in many ways.
I felt no need to get level 99 in D2. It wouldn't be displayed in any way because I wouldn't play with it anymore (I don't PvP). The tiny advantage in power (useful when MFing) is not enough to make up for the time it would take to level it up.
I think that the number of 99s in D2 would drop by like 99% if bots/MH didn't exist.
Btw, the 39 hours level 99 I posted before turned out to be with bots, MH in a 8 player game + ondals in a clan with many games open at once. They configured the bots so that the leveling player joined a game (with 7 players in) when the minions were spawned, entered the tp, unpartied (to get full exp) and killed them only, then left for the next game. This made each game take less than 20 seconds.
The average amount of legit runs required to get from level 90 to level 99 is 10K. This is confirmed by many players on different forums. It is in a 8 player game with no ondals or anni.
Take that little 10K number and multiply it by the minutes it takes to do each run, with no bots and maphack. The number would be even higher if Enigma didn't exist and you aren't a Sorceress.
It seems like 3-5 weeks of around 9 hours/day playing is what a legit player need. Most people does around 100 runs per day before they run out of time or die because of the legendary boredom.
Leveling to 99 wasn't a accomplishment, it was a freakin scam and a encouragement to use bots and hacks.
Imo a maxed level character should be something significant to get. 5 weeks is TOO little time, even with 9/day (wich i consider insane).
Again, compered to other game of it's time D2 was a easy leveling game and i liked it. Everyone had a high level character, even the honest ppl (85+). What diferenciates the experienced player and the begniner is that the experienced had alot of high level or even some hc high levels.
..
But i agree with you. The differencia between a 85 and a 99 should be small, specially because of pvp.
The bad thing is that having level 99s is not a proof of experience, it is a proof of your epic patience...
I consider 5 weeks to be way too much when there is close to 0 reward for doing it. But it should at the same time be no power affecting reward for doing it. A good 85 that doesn't feel like farming for 5 weeks should be better than a level 99 noob. Or atleast have a good chance.
Or not. To get a lvl99 you must put a significant amount of time. And time makes people more experient.
Also i hope leveling in D3 is not the insane boss run of D2. Wilsom said one of the big D2 flaws is the fact that, even playing the game is it should be played, you end it (kill Baal in Hell) at level 80~85. After that everything is a massive boss run even with people that don't like it. They said that you will have stuff to do until you get max level. So 99 does not mean robotic farm run in D3 i hope !
Stretching across too many difficulties is bad idea.
An important thing to understand is that the idea of a 4th difficulty is generally thrown around as a place where every area of the game is worth going to. Taking D2 as an examples, there would be a point to killing Fallens, but also to kill Baal. If they all keep 100% random drops though, there won't be much point to it.
Well, there are more ideas than that about a 4th difficulty, but its the one I heard the most.
Blizzard confirmed nothing, though. They said they were THINKING about it, or something. But even internally, this probably won't happen soon.
Jay Wilson said that the best way to lvl up should also be the most fun way.
Also in D2, being 90 and 99 did not give you big enough gains for one to want to do the grind in the first place. Since gear at that level was so good, the 9 extra skill points and 45 extra stat points didn't really do much.
I think there should be quests at the high levels will be substantially harder and yield far more exp to make leveling to 99 more feasible and rewarding. Along with the "regular" quests that may not be as hard or rewarding.
I think getting to 99 should require significant amount of time dedicated to play, but I think skill should be a BIGGER factor. I hope there will be quests that give HUUUUGE amounts of exp, but could only be completed by a group of skilled players that are coordinated and play the game masterfully.
And hopefully you get more skill points or stat points the higher in level you go to make it meaningful to gain these additional level.
I wonder what Blizz has in mind..
I agree, but unfortunately it is probably unavoidable. People will figure out the quickest way to get exp, and then that will be repeated over and over again. Like you said, they can provide the exp in the form of quests and such, but there are only so many variations that can be included.
But then again, most people just play the game as a leveling race. TOTALLY not the way I do.
I'm sure D3 will not make stupid continuous boss runs the most effective ways, but no matter what, grinding is dumb. Once you complete hell, they need something new, thats why a 4th difficulty was suggested (at least, thats why I'd want one), one that puts all the game on the same level, so that absolutely any zone could be challenging, so you could do anything anywhere and still have fun.
Couple that with special uber quests, some more things like this that gives a lot of XP could yes, make it a lot more interesting, but most of them should not be repeatable (for example, if uber tristram was an uber quest, completing it would give you a LOT of XP, more than any intense grinding could even give you, but you CAN'T turn in the quest twice. You can still go and beat uber tristram again, though).
Like story quests, actually. Once per character, but worth a lot. But they must actually be hard.
woah a 99!
[SIGPIC][url=http://www.diii.net/signature][img=http://www.diii.net/sig/983.png[/SIGPIC]
WoW is ridicolously easy to level because it means nothing to the game. In WoW the game starts when you reach the max level.. In Diablo the game ends (in the sense theres nothing else to do unless hunt for item, and only sorcs hunt for items).
Just a note, this shine was probably the ugliest thing to have and the most annoying, EVER. I would go CRAZY having that stupid aura permanently stuck to me.
I'm all for making your 99 character look badass and all, but a stupid looking aura like the sets in D2 is not the way Sorry, just had to say it!
Uhhh, why else would any one complain about it if that were not true...
The reward should be positively correlated to the difficulty.
careful here, your saying this should be an MMORPG instead of an RPG which is what it is going to be. I HATE having to depend on other people except for trading or rushes, but in terms of doing quests I don't think that having to depend on other players is the way to go. But having other people to facilitate quest completion is not the same thing and I hope they keep that. I'm just saying that I don't want get bogged down because I can't find good players to complete a friggin quest.
Battle not with monsters lest you become one.
Cmon....
No, and besides, that has absolutely nothing to do with that?
Not as happy as when i boned your mom
Battle not with monsters lest you become one.
Get out.
Imo a maxed level character should be something significant to get. 5 weeks is TOO little time, even with 9/day (wich i consider insane).
Again, compered to other game of it's time D2 was a easy leveling game and i liked it. Everyone had a high level character, even the honest ppl (85+). What diferenciates the experienced player and the begniner is that the experienced had alot of high level or even some hc high levels.
..
But i agree with you. The differencia between a 85 and a 99 should be small, specially because of pvp.
Or not. To get a lvl99 you must put a significant amount of time. And time makes people more experient.
Also i hope leveling in D3 is not the insane boss run of D2. Wilsom said one of the big D2 flaws is the fact that, even playing the game is it should be played, you end it (kill Baal in Hell) at level 80~85. After that everything is a massive boss run even with people that don't like it. They said that you will have stuff to do until you get max level. So 99 does not mean robotic farm run in D3 i hope !
I think there should be way more than 4 difficulties...
Hell why not?
Make a new difficulty as soon as the hardest difficulty is beat, just add more hp/damage to the monsters and better drops.
Stretching across too many difficulties is bad idea.
An important thing to understand is that the idea of a 4th difficulty is generally thrown around as a place where every area of the game is worth going to. Taking D2 as an examples, there would be a point to killing Fallens, but also to kill Baal. If they all keep 100% random drops though, there won't be much point to it.
Well, there are more ideas than that about a 4th difficulty, but its the one I heard the most.
Blizzard confirmed nothing, though. They said they were THINKING about it, or something. But even internally, this probably won't happen soon.
Getting to 90 / 91 / 92 is really easy though.